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      Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 14,479 posts | 2021 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #450: Jan 09, 2021 11:39:26 am
      I'm commenting on your post that Hendo looks poor with no creative midfielder yet your saying he's undroppable because he's our captain even though he has looked bad for a while and couldn't perform against villa's kids,come on.As for the CL in 17-18 again did you think Hendo looked poor in the midfield with Gini and Milner?i don't think he did,Ox came off after 18 minutes injured in the Roma CL game and Gini came on came on the score was 0-0 at the time,the final score was 5-2 and the second leg we had already got to the final so it was all about holding what we had getting the job done,as for the final we all know what happened to our best player in that game.

      So what point are you trying to make exactly? Drop Hendo after a poor run of recent games? Should we not just drop most of our first team in this case?

      Hendo won't be dropped so this is all moot.
      HamannsTheMan
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,629 posts | 1645 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #451: Jan 09, 2021 11:43:18 am
      There is literally nothing factual about anything you just wrote. Weird.

      To be honest mate, this forum has several divvys on it, loads of people who talk sh*te, but you’re right up there in the top three and it’s people like you why other people can’t be arsed and swerve it.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,651 posts | 2701 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #452: Jan 09, 2021 11:45:30 am
      Because if you supported Liverpool for longer than the last three weeks you would know how important Hendo is to this club, and what a brilliant captain he is, and wouldn't call for him to he dropped.

      And no Jürgen won't "probably play Hendo anyway", he will absolutely no doubt play him because unlike you he along with the majority of Liverpool supporters value what Hendo brings every time he steps out on to the pitch with the armband on.

      Out of interest what did Hendo bring to the game yesterday or the previous three games?  I generally like Hendo he had a great season last term and he's good at keeping the ball moving etc but lately he seems to have returned to the kind of form of earlier seasons. I think a big reason for this is the absence of Virgil and also the absence of Fabinho next to him in midfield. Whatever the reason is we should look at other options as we need to have more creativity in midfield, just look at the impact of Thiago and Shaq yesterday. Yes it was against tired Villa youngsters but they were going for the low block yet with a bit of cleverness from Thiago and Shaq we finally broke through, would that have happened with Hendo on current form, not in my opinion.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,651 posts | 2701 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #453: Jan 09, 2021 12:01:32 pm
      I disagree that he is both limited technically and an average footballer.

      He has well above average range of passing, and very high game intelligence.

      Not Thaigo level passing of course but then Thiago could never press and win possession like Hendo does.

      If they can form an understanding together over the next few games I think they will make a brilliant midfield partnership.

      Sorry but I call bullshit on this, Thiago has high game intelligence, Hendo does not. This does not mean that Hendo does not have a very important role to play, he is the heartbeat of the midfield, constantly chasing and pressing but and it is a bloody big BUT he has almost zero creativity in him, he has no eye for goal, occasionally he delivers a good pass but not on a regular basis, he is an out and out enforcer, in the mold of Roy Keane, Vierra etc.

      In a normal game of end to end football Hendo is very important to the team but in the recent games where we have lacked creativity against more defensive teams he is a big part of the problem and Thiago and Shaq are the solution.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,651 posts | 2701 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #454: Jan 09, 2021 12:10:13 pm
      So what point are you trying to make exactly? Drop Hendo after a poor run of recent games? Should we not just drop most of our first team in this case?

      Hendo won't be dropped so this is all moot.

      Are you like Hendo's number one superfan or something, this is getting a bit weird now, you are so defensive about this! 

      Even if the whole team is underperforming it can still be mostly due to one player, quite often the midfield captain in fact. I remember several time Stevie G having a sh*t game and because every ball had to go via him in any move it therefore affected the entire team. 

      At the moment Hendo is not playing well, or are you arguing against that, if you agree then why not try someone else in midfield, you saw yesterday the immediate effect of swapping Hendo for Thiago, that wasn't just down to the Villa kids getting knackered, it was creativity, new angles, more energy etc
      chats
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 25,402 posts | 1418 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #455: Jan 09, 2021 12:32:57 pm
      Hendo's going through a bad patch like a lot of others in the team but he'll be back.

      Definitely has to start next weekend where United will be very dangerous going forward.
      ruthcity
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 5,074 posts | 878 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #456: Jan 09, 2021 12:35:22 pm
      Oh ffs another Hendo is not a good footballer sh*t talk post.

      Hendo the captain of the best Liverpool team in a generation is not a good footballer.

      Arguably our player of the season in our first league title win in 30 years is not a good footballer.

      10 years later and he still has this utter nonsense sprouted about him it's so f**king laughable.

      There must only be two footballers who are good in the history of football then. Pele and Maradona. The rest are rubbish. This is me judgement upon all professional footballers past and present. I can’t help but laugh at meself as well.

      There’s only one good golfer and one good basketball player in recent history. All other professional sports athletes who earn much more than me are... hopeless. Yes I’ve passed a judgement.
      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 14,479 posts | 2021 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #457: Jan 09, 2021 12:38:27 pm
      Sorry but I call bullshit on this, Thiago has high game intelligence, Hendo does not. This does not mean that Hendo does not have a very important role to play, he is the heartbeat of the midfield, constantly chasing and pressing but and it is a bloody big BUT he has almost zero creativity in him, he has no eye for goal, occasionally he delivers a good pass but not on a regular basis, he is an out and out enforcer, in the mold of Roy Keane, Vierra etc.

      In a normal game of end to end football Hendo is very important to the team but in the recent games where we have lacked creativity against more defensive teams he is a big part of the problem and Thiago and Shaq are the solution.

      Absolute nonsense. If our forwards weren't blowing 20 plus chances they get every game no one would be bemoaning our lack of creativity from midfield.

      Take Hendo out of midfield and you'll quickly realise how important he is when we start shipping goals again at an alarming rate. He is not in the team to provide creativity that's the reason we signed Thiago. But to say he has zero creativity is rubbish.
      Frankly, Mr Shankly
      • Forum Didi Hamann
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      • 301 posts | 193 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #458: Jan 09, 2021 12:53:11 pm
      Standard victory - much needed as well! Keep on Redmen!
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,080 posts | 3222 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #459: Jan 09, 2021 01:25:10 pm
      Funny.

      "New" members who immediately start shitposting about the captain, with the same tired old shitposts that have done the rounds since Henderson came to the club.

      If I were cynical.....
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,651 posts | 2701 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #460: Jan 09, 2021 01:27:03 pm
      Hendo's going through a bad patch like a lot of others in the team but he'll be back.

      Definitely has to start next weekend where United will be very dangerous going forward.

      Why does he have to start?
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 25,558 posts | 4131 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #461: Jan 09, 2021 01:29:05 pm
      To be honest mate, this forum has several divvys on it, loads of people who talk sh*te, but you’re right up there in the top three and it’s people like you why other people can’t be arsed and swerve it.

      Nothing factual in this post either. You seem to have an issue being genuine bud. Maybe try working on that and don’t worry so much about what I’m posting.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,651 posts | 2701 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #462: Jan 09, 2021 01:35:24 pm
      Absolute nonsense. If our forwards weren't blowing 20 plus chances they get every game no one would be bemoaning our lack of creativity from midfield.

      Take Hendo out of midfield and you'll quickly realise how important he is when we start shipping goals again at an alarming rate. He is not in the team to provide creativity that's the reason we signed Thiago. But to say he has zero creativity is rubbish.

      I never said he had zero creativity, but as you correctly point out his main job is to act as a DM and pass the ball to the FB's, but why is that necessary against a low block team, against a low block team crossing the ball into the centre is a very poor option, especially when you don't have tall powerful forwards. In that case you need to go through the middle AND the flanks, which is what we did when Shaq and Thiago came on yesterday.

      Hendo is a good player, but he is going through a bad spell and we need creativity in midfield, now against Man Utd there is an argument for playing him as Man Utd will play a more open game, but against low block teams we need to be more positive in midfield, we have Fabinho who can play the DM and CB role against low block teams, so we don't need Hendo as much.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,651 posts | 2701 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #463: Jan 09, 2021 01:35:56 pm
      Funny.

      "New" members who immediately start shitposting about the captain, with the same tired old shitposts that have done the rounds since Henderson came to the club.

      If I were cynical.....

      You are cynical so what is your point?
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,651 posts | 2701 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #464: Jan 09, 2021 01:36:42 pm
      Nothing factual in this post either. You seem to have an issue being genuine bud. Maybe try working on that and don’t worry so much about what I’m posting.

      is this post factual then? Do all posts need to be factual now and who made you the forum police?
      chats
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 25,402 posts | 1418 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #465: Jan 09, 2021 01:40:45 pm

      I just think United will offer a lot going forward so we need him to protect the back four since Fabinho will be further back again. Hendo's been a vital cog in us getting good results against the best teams in recent seasons so we need him in there.

      As I said before, I'm not doubting he's out of form. He's certainly played his role in our recent poor results with his awful distribution but to not play him against United is absolute madness IMO. It's the type of game that's perfect for him.
      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 14,479 posts | 2021 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #466: Jan 09, 2021 01:46:58 pm
      I never said he had zero creativity, but as you correctly point out his main job is to act as a DM and pass the ball to the FB's, but why is that necessary against a low block team, against a low block team crossing the ball into the centre is a very poor option, especially when you don't have tall powerful forwards. In that case you need to go through the middle AND the flanks, which is what we did when Shaq and Thiago came on yesterday.

      Hendo is a good player, but he is going through a bad spell and we need creativity in midfield, now against Man Utd there is an argument for playing him as Man Utd will play a more open game, but against low block teams we need to be more positive in midfield, we have Fabinho who can play the DM and CB role against low block teams, so we don't need Hendo as much.

      We don't have Fabinho available to play DM though. He won't be moving back to DM until one of Virgil or Joe are back fit so possibly not until next season.

      Our best midfield in my opinion is a Fab-Thiago-Hendo midfield as it provides creatively, work rate and defensive stability but unfortunately we won't see this for a few months.

      The last few games Hendo has been forcing the play more than he usually does as he clearly felt that he needed to be the primary creative influence in midfield with Thiago and Keita out and Fab at CB. It didn't help that our forwards were so off the boil also. With Thiago next to him he will have more time and space to make better decisions and concentrate on what he does best.
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
      • ****

      • 522 posts | 91 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #467: Jan 09, 2021 02:03:00 pm
      Funny.

      "New" members who immediately start shitposting about the captain, with the same tired old shitposts that have done the rounds since Henderson came to the club.

      If I were cynical.....

      Shitposting?Just because i have aired my view about Hendo i'm shitposting?Hendo is completely out of form?yes or no?was Hendo extremely poor last night?in my view the worst player on the pitch for us against Villa's kids not city/United/spurs or Chelsea but Villa's kids,has Hendo been poor for a while now,hitting the same aimless hit and hope high long crosses near the centre of the goal,slowing the attacks down,constantly passing side to side and backwards,i like Hendo as a player and as a captain,but the last 4 games he has been so poor in my view,if you don't agree then just air your view and not just dismiss everything because someone's a new poster or someone has posted something in the past you don't like,we all support the same team but sometimes don't agree,i don't think anyone has an agenda against our captain just calling it how it is when they see he hasn't played well.
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      • 522 posts | 91 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #468: Jan 09, 2021 02:10:24 pm
      We don't have Fabinho available to play DM though. He won't be moving back to DM until one of Virgil or Joe are back fit so possibly not until next season.

      Our best midfield in my opinion is a Fab-Thiago-Hendo midfield as it provides creatively, work rate and defensive stability but unfortunately we won't see this for a few months.

      The last few games Hendo has been forcing the play more than he usually does as he clearly felt that he needed to be the primary creative influence in midfield with Thiago and Keita out and Fab at CB. It didn't help that our forwards were so off the boil also. With Thiago next to him he will have more time and space to make better decisions and concentrate on what he does best.

      Was Hendo extremely poor last night?was he our worst player last night?in my view Yes.
      Below was one of the views of Hendo online for the villa game,Hendo had a rating of 4 out of 10,the lowest of any Liverpool player

      The skipper was poor in the first half, however, forcing things far too often and either losing possession or over-hitting crosses.Replaced by Thiago after the break after looking like a player out of form.

      Another online about Hendo's again a 4 rating and the lowest of any Liverpool player

      Saw a lot of the ball before the break but mainly gave it straight back to Villa in an uncharacteristically dire showing. Subbed at half-time.





      « Last Edit: Jan 09, 2021 02:20:13 pm by weareliverpool »
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      • 522 posts | 91 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #469: Jan 09, 2021 02:13:46 pm
      I never said he had zero creativity, but as you correctly point out his main job is to act as a DM and pass the ball to the FB's, but why is that necessary against a low block team, against a low block team crossing the ball into the centre is a very poor option, especially when you don't have tall powerful forwards. In that case you need to go through the middle AND the flanks, which is what we did when Shaq and Thiago came on yesterday.

      Hendo is a good player, but he is going through a bad spell and we need creativity in midfield, now against Man Utd there is an argument for playing him as Man Utd will play a more open game, but against low block teams we need to be more positive in midfield, we have Fabinho who can play the DM and CB role against low block teams, so we don't need Hendo as much.

      Spot on.
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 16,669 posts | 1923 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #470: Jan 09, 2021 02:35:20 pm
      Just reading through some of the posts arguing about Hendo. Hes not at his peak but he is a vital cog and dropping him would be a mistake in my view.

      Looking at the bigger picture. Most of our players are playing below themselves. To me that comes from 1 of 2 things...

      They are physically jaded, from what they have done over 3 years solid and cant get their form going. Or, dare I say, something isnt right behind the scenes and is affecting the players....Id be more inclined to go with the tiredness.
      Billo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 8,235 posts | 464 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #471: Jan 09, 2021 02:38:00 pm
      The thing with Hendo is that he isnt there to create, he is their to control the midfield and to let our fullbacks attack.
      He gets a assist here and there, but his job is to cover for our most creative players ala Taa and robbo.

      Everytime they are high up on the pitch, hendo is ready to make a definsive run to cover the space they left behind. I like Hendo, but im not his biggest supporter either. I think he is a good player who is very good at what he is there to do.

      I personally feel that he has evolved into a player who is almost vital to our team. He brings stability into our lineup and control into our midfield. Now there are sime games im which he should be rested but our strongest lineup includes Hendo.

      Thats just how i see it, Hendo has had a huge role in why our fullbacks are thought as world class.
      Billo
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 8,235 posts | 464 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #472: Jan 09, 2021 02:47:12 pm
      I never said he had zero creativity, but as you correctly point out his main job is to act as a DM and pass the ball to the FB's, but why is that necessary against a low block team, against a low block team crossing the ball into the centre is a very poor option, especially when you don't have tall powerful forwards. In that case you need to go through the middle AND the flanks, which is what we did when Shaq and Thiago came on yesterday.


      Good shout but maybe hendo is there to stay deep and cover the space which is left behind from our fullbacks when they are attacking. To stop their counter attacks,
      The thing is that on paper you dont need him against a parked bus, but in reality cbs are in the middle and one long ball to either sides would start a dangerous counter attack for the other team.

      Im pretty sure that you agree on that robbo and taa need to stay high up to create width against parked bus, that makes Hendo important for this kind of play.

      Although i agree on subbing him off during a game if needed.
      bmck
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #473: Jan 09, 2021 04:10:49 pm
      Have a pop at Hendo, but he's the guy lifting the trophies, the captain, one of the 1st names Jürgen has on the teamsheet.
      He didn't play great last night, but to single him out ahead of guys like Salah, Taki, Williams who were really poor, seems strange.

      Shaq made some good passes, but he came on when a bunch of children were tired - he wasn't so good against Southampton. Not sure can take much from that game.

      Thiago is looking the part lately after being out with injury, some player.

      Williams lack of pace again shown up for the goal. Can't see how he'd play much more in the PL - based on what have seen of him, even though Nat is probably not as comfortable on the ball, in that situation he'd probably give away a foul, and he's way better in the air - would play Nat ahead of Rhys.

      We have problems down the right side with both TAA and Salah out of form. If I was Utd, would target there. Both of them are wasting/loosing a lot of ball. Problem is nobody's really pushing them for a place. Jota deffo would've been for up front, but Taki still looks lightweight. Neco won't get in ahead of TAA, maybe Milner? Don't see it though. So likely both will start. Hopefully they both pull out performances on the day, they're good enough to.
      RedWilly
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      • 8,394 posts | 1225 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #474: Jan 09, 2021 04:19:33 pm
      That first half was very concerning, thought after that early goal we would have wiped the floor with them but we never looked like scoring or creating chances. A lot of teams are going to play that low block against us and we need to find a solution.

      Which brings me to Thiago, difference he made when he came on, trying to actually pass through their defence rather than just lift crosses into the box. Offers something completely different to our other midfielders.

      Was surprised by how strong Klopp went, maybe a sign of him planning on taking the FA Cup seriously this year?

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