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      Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #460: Jan 09, 2021 01:35:56 pm
      Funny.

      "New" members who immediately start shitposting about the captain, with the same tired old shitposts that have done the rounds since Henderson came to the club.

      If I were cynical.....

      You are cynical so what is your point?
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #461: Jan 09, 2021 01:36:42 pm
      Nothing factual in this post either. You seem to have an issue being genuine bud. Maybe try working on that and don’t worry so much about what I’m posting.

      is this post factual then? Do all posts need to be factual now and who made you the forum police?
      chats
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #462: Jan 09, 2021 01:40:45 pm

      I just think United will offer a lot going forward so we need him to protect the back four since Fabinho will be further back again. Hendo's been a vital cog in us getting good results against the best teams in recent seasons so we need him in there.

      As I said before, I'm not doubting he's out of form. He's certainly played his role in our recent poor results with his awful distribution but to not play him against United is absolute madness IMO. It's the type of game that's perfect for him.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #463: Jan 09, 2021 01:46:58 pm
      I never said he had zero creativity, but as you correctly point out his main job is to act as a DM and pass the ball to the FB's, but why is that necessary against a low block team, against a low block team crossing the ball into the centre is a very poor option, especially when you don't have tall powerful forwards. In that case you need to go through the middle AND the flanks, which is what we did when Shaq and Thiago came on yesterday.

      Hendo is a good player, but he is going through a bad spell and we need creativity in midfield, now against Man Utd there is an argument for playing him as Man Utd will play a more open game, but against low block teams we need to be more positive in midfield, we have Fabinho who can play the DM and CB role against low block teams, so we don't need Hendo as much.

      We don't have Fabinho available to play DM though. He won't be moving back to DM until one of Virgil or Joe are back fit so possibly not until next season.

      Our best midfield in my opinion is a Fab-Thiago-Hendo midfield as it provides creatively, work rate and defensive stability but unfortunately we won't see this for a few months.

      The last few games Hendo has been forcing the play more than he usually does as he clearly felt that he needed to be the primary creative influence in midfield with Thiago and Keita out and Fab at CB. It didn't help that our forwards were so off the boil also. With Thiago next to him he will have more time and space to make better decisions and concentrate on what he does best.
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #464: Jan 09, 2021 02:03:00 pm
      Funny.

      "New" members who immediately start shitposting about the captain, with the same tired old shitposts that have done the rounds since Henderson came to the club.

      If I were cynical.....

      Shitposting?Just because i have aired my view about Hendo i'm shitposting?Hendo is completely out of form?yes or no?was Hendo extremely poor last night?in my view the worst player on the pitch for us against Villa's kids not city/United/spurs or Chelsea but Villa's kids,has Hendo been poor for a while now,hitting the same aimless hit and hope high long crosses near the centre of the goal,slowing the attacks down,constantly passing side to side and backwards,i like Hendo as a player and as a captain,but the last 4 games he has been so poor in my view,if you don't agree then just air your view and not just dismiss everything because someone's a new poster or someone has posted something in the past you don't like,we all support the same team but sometimes don't agree,i don't think anyone has an agenda against our captain just calling it how it is when they see he hasn't played well.
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #465: Jan 09, 2021 02:10:24 pm
      We don't have Fabinho available to play DM though. He won't be moving back to DM until one of Virgil or Joe are back fit so possibly not until next season.

      Our best midfield in my opinion is a Fab-Thiago-Hendo midfield as it provides creatively, work rate and defensive stability but unfortunately we won't see this for a few months.

      The last few games Hendo has been forcing the play more than he usually does as he clearly felt that he needed to be the primary creative influence in midfield with Thiago and Keita out and Fab at CB. It didn't help that our forwards were so off the boil also. With Thiago next to him he will have more time and space to make better decisions and concentrate on what he does best.

      Was Hendo extremely poor last night?was he our worst player last night?in my view Yes.
      Below was one of the views of Hendo online for the villa game,Hendo had a rating of 4 out of 10,the lowest of any Liverpool player

      The skipper was poor in the first half, however, forcing things far too often and either losing possession or over-hitting crosses.Replaced by Thiago after the break after looking like a player out of form.

      Another online about Hendo's again a 4 rating and the lowest of any Liverpool player

      Saw a lot of the ball before the break but mainly gave it straight back to Villa in an uncharacteristically dire showing. Subbed at half-time.





      « Last Edit: Jan 09, 2021 02:20:13 pm by weareliverpool »
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #466: Jan 09, 2021 02:13:46 pm
      I never said he had zero creativity, but as you correctly point out his main job is to act as a DM and pass the ball to the FB's, but why is that necessary against a low block team, against a low block team crossing the ball into the centre is a very poor option, especially when you don't have tall powerful forwards. In that case you need to go through the middle AND the flanks, which is what we did when Shaq and Thiago came on yesterday.

      Hendo is a good player, but he is going through a bad spell and we need creativity in midfield, now against Man Utd there is an argument for playing him as Man Utd will play a more open game, but against low block teams we need to be more positive in midfield, we have Fabinho who can play the DM and CB role against low block teams, so we don't need Hendo as much.

      Spot on.
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 19,046 posts | 2741 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #467: Jan 09, 2021 02:35:20 pm
      Just reading through some of the posts arguing about Hendo. Hes not at his peak but he is a vital cog and dropping him would be a mistake in my view.

      Looking at the bigger picture. Most of our players are playing below themselves. To me that comes from 1 of 2 things...

      They are physically jaded, from what they have done over 3 years solid and cant get their form going. Or, dare I say, something isnt right behind the scenes and is affecting the players....Id be more inclined to go with the tiredness.
      Billo
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #468: Jan 09, 2021 02:38:00 pm
      The thing with Hendo is that he isnt there to create, he is their to control the midfield and to let our fullbacks attack.
      He gets a assist here and there, but his job is to cover for our most creative players ala Taa and robbo.

      Everytime they are high up on the pitch, hendo is ready to make a definsive run to cover the space they left behind. I like Hendo, but im not his biggest supporter either. I think he is a good player who is very good at what he is there to do.

      I personally feel that he has evolved into a player who is almost vital to our team. He brings stability into our lineup and control into our midfield. Now there are sime games im which he should be rested but our strongest lineup includes Hendo.

      Thats just how i see it, Hendo has had a huge role in why our fullbacks are thought as world class.
      Billo
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #469: Jan 09, 2021 02:47:12 pm
      I never said he had zero creativity, but as you correctly point out his main job is to act as a DM and pass the ball to the FB's, but why is that necessary against a low block team, against a low block team crossing the ball into the centre is a very poor option, especially when you don't have tall powerful forwards. In that case you need to go through the middle AND the flanks, which is what we did when Shaq and Thiago came on yesterday.


      Good shout but maybe hendo is there to stay deep and cover the space which is left behind from our fullbacks when they are attacking. To stop their counter attacks,
      The thing is that on paper you dont need him against a parked bus, but in reality cbs are in the middle and one long ball to either sides would start a dangerous counter attack for the other team.

      Im pretty sure that you agree on that robbo and taa need to stay high up to create width against parked bus, that makes Hendo important for this kind of play.

      Although i agree on subbing him off during a game if needed.
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #470: Jan 09, 2021 04:10:49 pm
      Have a pop at Hendo, but he's the guy lifting the trophies, the captain, one of the 1st names Jürgen has on the teamsheet.
      He didn't play great last night, but to single him out ahead of guys like Salah, Taki, Williams who were really poor, seems strange.

      Shaq made some good passes, but he came on when a bunch of children were tired - he wasn't so good against Southampton. Not sure can take much from that game.

      Thiago is looking the part lately after being out with injury, some player.

      Williams lack of pace again shown up for the goal. Can't see how he'd play much more in the PL - based on what have seen of him, even though Nat is probably not as comfortable on the ball, in that situation he'd probably give away a foul, and he's way better in the air - would play Nat ahead of Rhys.

      We have problems down the right side with both TAA and Salah out of form. If I was Utd, would target there. Both of them are wasting/loosing a lot of ball. Problem is nobody's really pushing them for a place. Jota deffo would've been for up front, but Taki still looks lightweight. Neco won't get in ahead of TAA, maybe Milner? Don't see it though. So likely both will start. Hopefully they both pull out performances on the day, they're good enough to.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #471: Jan 09, 2021 04:19:33 pm
      That first half was very concerning, thought after that early goal we would have wiped the floor with them but we never looked like scoring or creating chances. A lot of teams are going to play that low block against us and we need to find a solution.

      Which brings me to Thiago, difference he made when he came on, trying to actually pass through their defence rather than just lift crosses into the box. Offers something completely different to our other midfielders.

      Was surprised by how strong Klopp went, maybe a sign of him planning on taking the FA Cup seriously this year?
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #472: Jan 10, 2021 11:16:41 am
      I think Klopp went strong to maintain match sharpness, otherwise the FIrst XI would have have had a long break between games.  I think he was right in this case, although not so in the case of the Midtjylland game, where (hindsight excepted) it always looked foolish to play key first teamers, especially those in sh*t-hot form like Jota!

      Villa's kids were outstanding in my opinion, and to rubbish our lads for a poor performance doesn't tell the whole story.  We played conservatively to protect a lead initially, and protect a back four that were untried as a unit.  We were set up to attack and win quickly but it didn't happen and we found ourselves having to contain them.  We were dealt with very effectively for an hour by a well-drilled, hungry and fit bunch of lads with nothing to lose and everything to gain.  When they tired, we got the better of them but seemed almost embarrassed to win by 4 -1.  Our lads knew they'd been in a game.

      I don't think we should read anything much into the game, beyond the usual "we move on - next game is the important one!"

      Yeah, I was disappointed in the performance and some of the best players we've got had poor games.  It happens, its sport.  We also had no luck for 60 minutes.  Again, it happens.  They're not machines.

      Drop Hendo?  Not on your life.  And neither will Jürgen.  Some folks on here want re-directing to the knee-jerk thread.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #473: Jan 10, 2021 11:38:31 am
      I think Klopp went strong to maintain match sharpness, otherwise the FIrst XI would have have had a long break between games.  I think he was right in this case, although not so in the case of the Midtjylland game, where (hindsight excepted) it always looked foolish to play key first teamers, especially those in sh*t-hot form like Jota!

      Villa's kids were outstanding in my opinion, and to rubbish our lads for a poor performance doesn't tell the whole story.  We played conservatively to protect a lead initially, and protect a back four that were untried as a unit.  We were set up to attack and win quickly but it didn't happen and we found ourselves having to contain them.  We were dealt with very effectively for an hour by a well-drilled, hungry and fit bunch of lads with nothing to lose and everything to gain.  When they tired, we got the better of them but seemed almost embarrassed to win by 4 -1.  Our lads knew they'd been in a game.

      I don't think we should read anything much into the game, beyond the usual "we move on - next game is the important one!"

      Yeah, I was disappointed in the performance and some of the best players we've got had poor games.  It happens, its sport.  We also had no luck for 60 minutes.  Again, it happens.  They're not machines.

      Drop Hendo?  Not on your life.  And neither will Jürgen.  Some folks on here want re-directing to the knee-jerk thread.


      The concern about the performance for me stems from the fact it wasn’t a once off, we’ve seen this quite a few times now where teams have employed the same tactic and it looks like we really struggle, even if a bunch of kids do it to us. Wouldn’t surprise me to see the mancs go down the same route although they’ll obviously offer more on the counter.

      Agree on Hendo, no chance he gets dropped.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #474: Jan 10, 2021 11:39:40 am
      We won the match and moved into the next round. That’s the key point. Whoever was mugged or scored an own goal is all history now. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

      Get on with life, get a life and stop living in the past.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #475: Jan 10, 2021 12:06:01 pm
      The concern about the performance for me stems from the fact it wasn’t a once off, we’ve seen this quite a few times now where teams have employed the same tactic and it looks like we really struggle, even if a bunch of kids do it to us. Wouldn’t surprise me to see the mancs go down the same route although they’ll obviously offer more on the counter.

      Agree on Hendo, no chance he gets dropped.

      I agree, we have struggled (not only recently) against bus-parking teams, and had three frustrating results against teams we'd expect to beat.
      It's always happened.  Its the only way less talented teams know to stop us.  Last season we won these games by the odd late goal, but this season we're not quite getting over the line.  I sense some doubt and lack of cohesion among the attackers.  I think Salah and Mane need to try and find each other more, to get their heads up and use the option each of them offers the other, because although selfishness gets goals, it probably costs us even more goals! 
      ManUre will be a different game, I think.  There'll be more space, more end-to-end, pacey attacking, but if they get a lead they'll sit back and try to hit us on the counter,  that's the danger.  We need to strike first or Tiago becomes our only hope of breaching them.

      Hendo is first on the team sheet.  I hope!
       
      brezipool
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #476: Jan 10, 2021 12:10:15 pm
      Fantastic by the villa u18s. well done lads.

      Job done from us, always knew they would tire last 20mins.

      Brilliant to see thaigo and shaq get more minutes. both looking class.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #477: Jan 10, 2021 12:34:40 pm
      We won the match and moved into the next round. That’s the key point. Whoever was mugged or scored an own goal is all history now. Past performance is not indicative of future performance.

      Get on with life, get a life and stop living in the past.

      A post that isn’t sarcastic, shame it’s absolute rubbish. This nonsense that has come up recently where people can’t discuss the match is a farce, if you want to live in an echo chamber more power to you, but this ain’t the place.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #478: Jan 10, 2021 12:49:53 pm
      I agree, we have struggled (not only recently) against bus-parking teams, and had three frustrating results against teams we'd expect to beat.
      It's always happened.  Its the only way less talented teams know to stop us.  Last season we won these games by the odd late goal, but this season we're not quite getting over the line.  I sense some doubt and lack of cohesion among the attackers.  I think Salah and Mane need to try and find each other more, to get their heads up and use the option each of them offers the other, because although selfishness gets goals, it probably costs us even more goals! 
      ManUre will be a different game, I think.  There'll be more space, more end-to-end, pacey attacking, but if they get a lead they'll sit back and try to hit us on the counter,  that's the danger.  We need to strike first or Tiago becomes our only hope of breaching them.

      Hendo is first on the team sheet.  I hope!
       

      I agree, it’s obviously a tough tactic to play against because of the lack of space to operate and maybe we were spoiled last season (well we definitely were) where we literally won every game till about Xmas, including against teams employing this tactic.

      Think Jürgen knew we would face this even more this season and that was the thinking behind Thiago coming in, just hope he isn’t on the end of anymore bad challenges that put him out, mad how he’s become such an important player with so few minutes under his belt.
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #479: Jan 10, 2021 03:03:01 pm
      Get on with life, get a life and stop living in the past.

      So I can't go round to Marty and Doc Browns anymore?
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #480: Jan 10, 2021 04:23:18 pm
      Nothing factual in this post either. You seem to have an issue being genuine bud. Maybe try working on that and don’t worry so much about what I’m posting.

      I’m on a Liverpool forum in a post match thread giving MY opinion on the game you weapon.

      what-a-hit-son
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      • t: @MrPrice1979 i: @klmprice101518
      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #481: Jan 10, 2021 04:28:35 pm
      To be honest mate, this forum has several divvys on it, loads of people who talk sh*te, but you’re right up there in the top three and it’s people like you why other people can’t be arsed and swerve it.

      Am I the only one wanting the whole top 3 being revealed?

      Unless I'm in it, that is...
      Brian78
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      Re: Aston Villa 1-4 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #482: Jan 10, 2021 05:29:18 pm
      Am I the only one wanting the whole top 3 being revealed?

      Unless I'm in it, that is...

      You just reminded me we use to have a vote down option on here a few years back. One lad had a serious minus number at one point, he turned it around though to some degree. Richobaz was it?? -800 at ine point I think
      « Last Edit: Jan 10, 2021 05:36:00 pm by Brian78 »

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