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      The title race

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      king kenny
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #253: Feb 03, 2021 10:38:01 pm
      Anyone who thinks we can win the league after that performance is in cuckoo land. Feel free to come back and say I told you so if we do end up winning it, but f**k me that was poor.

      I actually don't care where we finish this season, I have always said they get a free pass considering what they have achieved recently, wouldn't mind a run in the CL though.


      Totally agree!  Word for word.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #254: Feb 03, 2021 10:44:54 pm
      We have nothing to lose now in playing one or both of Kabak and Davies at CB from next week on. We badly need more quality in midfield we are no longer dominating midfield as we did the last two seasons with Fab in there and it's killing our intensity.

      Stick the two new lads at CB play Fab, Thiago and one of Hendo/Gini in midfield and I guarantee we start smashing teams again.

      I think its a huge ask to have 2 players on debut play v City. Could really hurt them long term. I thought we might play 1 today in a game where we would at least dominate the ball to bed one of them in.

      Hard to see any blend of players we have available to us that can beat them at the moment.

      HScRed1
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #255: Feb 03, 2021 10:49:04 pm
      Anyone who thinks we can win the league after that performance is in cuckoo land. Feel free to come back and say I told you so if we do end up winning it, but f**k me that was poor.

      I actually don't care where we finish this season, I have always said they get a free pass considering what they have achieved recently, wouldn't mind a run in the CL though.


      That’s fair enough but unless we win the damn thing then we need Top 4 to be back in, otherwise funding dries up for investement.

      chats
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #256: Feb 03, 2021 10:49:13 pm
      City's a free hit, anything on Sunday will be a bonus.

      Season starts again the following week at Leicester.
      fields of anny rd
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #257: Feb 03, 2021 10:50:27 pm
      That’s fair enough but unless we win the damn thing then we need Top 4 to be back in, otherwise funding dries up for investement.



      And the likes of Mane and Salah dont stick around.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #258: Feb 03, 2021 11:24:35 pm
      Klopp on the title race:

      "The gap to City, I know, I'm manager of Liverpool and I have to say [because] you always ask and we were champions last year, so I have to say, ‘Yeah, oh my God, we want to be champions…’ Yes, we want [that], but you need the games for it, you need the performances for it, and we don’t have. So, that's the truth as well. We fight for other things, we fight for three points. It is not decided yet who will get the three points on Sunday, so we have to play better and we will try as well. Then we will see. These gaps are not interesting in the moment because they are the result of the results we had already. What we can influence is the next games and we will try for that. For tonight, it was not enough – we saw that, we know that and we have to change that."
      rossyred
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #259: Feb 03, 2021 11:26:21 pm
      Anyone who thinks we can win the league after that performance is in cuckoo land. Feel free to come back and say I told you so if we do end up winning it, but f**k me that was poor.

      I actually don't care where we finish this season, I have always said they get a free pass considering what they have achieved recently, wouldn't mind a run in the CL though.

      Sorry I care where we finish and it needs to be top 4 min
      HScRed1
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #260: Feb 03, 2021 11:27:08 pm
      Might as well save this thread for next year.
      We always needed our best players fully fit so fingers crossed for next year.
      Brian78
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #261: Feb 04, 2021 08:36:03 am
      All teams bar us hit the expected points/wins from this round of games.

      7 points off city who still have a game in hand to.

      Its hanging by a tread, if hanging at all. Sunday is a must win ti have any hope. Lose and stick the trophy in the back of a van and focus on top 4 and champions league.

      Truth is we dont deserve to be in a title race, look at the points we have dropped
      srslfc
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #262: Feb 04, 2021 08:39:13 am
      It's far from over but we cannot afford anymore displays like last night.

      Best City on Sunday and were still in the hunt.
      0112358
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #263: Feb 04, 2021 08:40:25 am
      I hope Klopp has written off the league and focuses on CL. I think we are still good enough to secure our 4th spot relatively early with some decent lead, so that Jürgen can begin to rest players in the league to have them fresh for the CL KO stages.
      clint_call01
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #264: Feb 04, 2021 08:43:46 am
      We can close this thread now re-open in August.

      Exactly, we're so much off the top. We needed luck throughout the season and we got nothing. We need to focus on UCL now.
      TameImpala
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #265: Feb 04, 2021 09:11:15 am
      7 points, beat city and its only four points.


      City have quite a tough run of fixtures after us too. Think they play Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham and United. We're capable of beating them on Sunday and they're certainly capable of not taking maximum points from those fixtures. But it's reliant on us being able to capitalize, which at the minute isn't looking very likely. Stranger things have happened though!
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #266: Feb 04, 2021 09:14:07 am
      I'm a glass half full type of lad when it comes to this type of thing with us, but I must say, I think it's gone now. Just two many cards stacked against us.

      Cant wait til we lift number 7 in a few months, though. It's a F***ing nap!
      Jimsouse67
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #267: Feb 04, 2021 09:22:54 am
      Not ready to throw the towel in just yet but it’s Gona take one monumental effort.
      srslfc
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #268: Feb 04, 2021 09:24:08 am
      I hope Klopp has written off the league and focuses on CL. I think we are still good enough to secure our 4th spot relatively early with some decent lead, so that Jürgen can begin to rest players in the league to have them fresh for the CL KO stages.

      I hope he hasn't. And he won't have.

      One real way of missing out on top four is dropping focus on trying to win the league. We still should have that as our target along with CL as any movement in focus will only have a negative affect.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #269: Feb 04, 2021 09:43:06 am
      Its over. Too much things we don't control have to go right and that's assuming we somehow stop dropping points left and right.

      My top priority would be to integrate the two CBs we got as fast as possible after the City game in order to put Fabinho and Hendo back in the middle of the park and to give those two guys (Davies + Kabak) as much game time as possible and have a pretty good idea of what we've got by the end of the season.

      My second priority would be to figure out what to do against low double blocks (aka park the bus) because atm, even with Thiago, we are not creating anything. Blame the front 3 as much as you want but they can't bear the whole load. Something needs to be created for them and yesterday was yet another game this season where I saw 3 guys stranded upfront with the most creative thing coming their way being crosses in a box where they stand in the middle of 6 or 7 tall players from the other team. (We're talking Salah, Mane, Shaq and Bobby here, not Crouch and Torres). These guys need space to run. It's not a coincidence that we constantly look better against bigger teams since the beginning of the season. These teams will bring their line higher up and attack you, leaving space for those long diagonal crosses to be exploited by a rushing Mane, Salah or  Bobby. As soon as we face a low, well drilled block, we don't know what to do. I can't deny that there's a lack of intensity in comparison to last season but you can also see in the face of some of the players, in games like yesterday's, they don't believe that we are going to score. 

      Would I be alone in saying that apart from the early Salah chance there was not a single ball played into the box (cross or else) that made feel like we could score? (not even close to getting that tense feeling you get when you really believe we could score)

      Do what you have to do to figure it out wether by altering the system or by pure tactical changes, but keeping things as is won't work. I understand Klopp had planned for this long ago and Ox, Keita and Thiago are all alternatives brought in specifically to switch things up and give us different ways of creating but ATM Thiago spends most his playing time way too deep because Hendo and Fabinho are playing at the back, Keita is...well no comments, and Ox is either injured or working his way back from an injury by playing 10 here and 15 here.

      If we are going to play two deep CDMs to cover our brittle defence anyway then we might as well switch to an assumed 4-2-3-1 with a true CAM (Thiago, Gini, Ox, Salah, Shaq all come to mind). My point is, lets try some things out because, right now, creativity from the full-backs, for a lot of different reasons, is not working. 
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #270: Feb 04, 2021 10:20:05 am
      I'm a glass half full type of lad when it comes to this type of thing with us, but I must say, I think it's gone now. Just two many cards stacked against us.



      Defo bit like me then.  :lmao:

      FL Red
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #271: Feb 04, 2021 10:56:37 am
      Nothing worthwhile is ever easy. But we have to stop dicking around with these teams that have no business beating us.
      Rush Goalie
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #272: Feb 04, 2021 11:45:32 am
      It is City's title to lose!   Let's get number 7.

      Here, here.. It's not a case of giving up it's being realistic. At the moment we are in the top four race so let's worry about that, who knows it may yet still develop into a title race but it's not likely now tbh.
      Get some CBs in at CB and reignite that midfield, if the players have the belief and desire still we can deffo have a good crack at big ears number 7..
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #273: Feb 04, 2021 01:13:12 pm
      City have quite a tough run of fixtures after us too. Think they play Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham and United. We're capable of beating them on Sunday and they're certainly capable of not taking maximum points from those fixtures. But it's reliant on us being able to capitalize, which at the minute isn't looking very likely. Stranger things have happened though!

      Thats the thing isn’t it. We aren’t just relying on other teams to go on a losing streak but we’re relying ourselves to go on a winning one too.

      I really believed after spurs and West Ham that we had turned a corner and would push on. But it’s a case of one step forward two back with us at the moment.

      Nearly two thirds into the season and we will probably be ten points behind city. If we win on Sunday it gives us a small bit of hope but I think it’s too much to claw back at this stage and we should put all focus into the CL.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #274: Feb 04, 2021 01:28:50 pm
      Thats the thing isn’t it. We aren’t just relying on other teams to go on a losing streak but we’re relying ourselves to go on a winning one too.

      I really believed after spurs and West Ham that we had turned a corner and would push on. But it’s a case of one step forward two back with us at the moment.

      Nearly two thirds into the season and we will probably be ten points behind city. If we win on Sunday it gives us a small bit of hope but I think it’s too much to claw back at this stage and we should put all focus into the CL.
      .I think all that means is prioritizing our team selection for Champions League ties. Determine our best XI for the CL game and then make team selection for the prior match so that our best XI are fresh for the Euro game. It's not like we are tanking the remainder of the league schedule 

      And as has been said, get these defenders we've bought into the park and see what they are about.
      harrydunn08
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      Re: The title race
      Reply #275: Feb 04, 2021 02:17:15 pm
      I've been trying to put my finger on what our problem(s) are for a few weeks, and while I definitely haven't identified the root cause and solution to our woes, there are a number of things that seem to be contributing factors.  Here are a few of the things I've noticed over the past couple of months. 

      Defense: Many people have been quick to point to the fact that we've lost our 2 starting CB's -- the partnership that was the foundation for our title win last season.  While I'm sure this has had an impact, I think it has been more of a knock on effect in that we miss Hendo and/or Fabinho in midfield.  If you throw out the game against Villa (which both VVD and Gomez were involved in) we have conceded 18 goals in 21 games.  City have the best defensive record in the league with 13 goals conceded in 21 games, but it's not a massive difference.  We have still been fairly resiliant and stubborn in defense for most of the season.  The recent run of losses and draws is more down to our inability to pose a threat up the other end of the pitch. 

      Midfield:  There appear to be a combination of issues impacting our midfield.  First off, Fab and Hendo are among the best CM's in the league (maybe the world) and they are playing out of position to cover our injuries at CB.  Gini and Thiago are also top quality CM's so on paper we shouldn't be lacking too much in the way of quality in the center of the pitch, but it isn't working out that way.  As much as I hate to admit it, Thiago just isn't clicking with the rest of the team.  He is arguably our most talented player, but he plays on a different wavelength to the rest of his teammates.  The tactics that we have used in recent seasons -- high pressing tactics that won us the CL and Prem -- are breaking down because we aren't able to press with the same sort of high defensive line and energy in midfield that we used to.  I love Thiago and I want us to find a way to make it work with him in the team, but that may mean making a change to our formation, tactics, and personnel to get other players playing a more elegant style rather than the direct footie we have become accustomed to. 

      Attack:  Where to begin?  Mo is scoring goals, but that is about it.  A few seasons ago he was making selfless, lung busting runs, chasing down everything in the channels, and just making a nuisance of himself in general.  Much of that selfless play has disappeared from his game which I think is having a detrimental impact on the other forwards, as well as our midfielders because the movement is poor and they lack passing options.  Moving onto Bobby -- he has gone completely off the boil.  His movement off the ball has been poor, as well as his touch, passing, and vision to link with his fellow attackers.  Pair this with the fact that most teams are sitting deep and playing long ball against us and that pretty much eliminates the other key part of his game as the first man in our high press -- teams are just bypassing our press and playing over the top or around the sides.  Mane has been off form, but for me he is at least still doing the hard work that our team relies on to create space and opportunities to score.  He is making runs, running at defenders with the ball, pressing and closing the ball down, tracking back on defense, etc.  It isn't happening in front of goal for him at the moment, but his luck will turn at some point.  Jota was the star of the show in the first couple of months, and we've really been missing his movement and energy across the front line.  Need him back asap!

      I think it's safe to say that City look to have 1 hand on the title already.  They have rattled off 13 straight wins, and don't look like anyone is going to catch them. 

      The big question is -- where do we go from here? 

      Does one of Kabak or Davies help solve our CB problem so that Hendo can move back into midfield? 

      Do we stick or twist on Thiago? 

      Do we switch from 4-3-3 to a 4-2-3-1?  Personally, I think if we play Thiago in the Alonso role with a proper #10 playing behind our front 3, that would give teams who try to sit deep a completely different task as we would have genuine creativity and threat coming through the middle. 

      What happens with fringe players like Shaq, Origi, Ox, and Keita?  Personally, I think we need to try to move on from all 4 of these over the summer and get in 2 replacements who are capable of genuinely challenging for a spot in the starting 11.  Jota aside, there is too big of a drop in quality between our regular starting 11 and the backups we have to call on.  Unfortunatley, this season we have been unlucky with injuries and are being punished for not having the same sort of quality in reserve as the likes of City and United. 

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