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      Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      David Wright
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #650: Jan 25, 2021 10:02:04 am
      Badly need to sort out the defence, with so many injuries, players playing out of position. Need to start picking up points in the league for certain  On a more positive note 2 goals for Mo Salah.
      Don77
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      • 2,426 posts | 140 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #651: Jan 25, 2021 10:12:19 am
      It was a massive gamble to go in with 3 centre backs like we did of. Especially when two of them we knew would pick up injuries. Yes VVD's you can't plan for but Gomez has had an injury every season and Matip well he's Matip. It's one thing going in with three centre backs but it's a whole new kind of thing when two of them are Matip and Gomez.

      I understand we had a limited budget so I'm not saying we should have spent 40m on one but I'd have either kept Lovren around or used his money on a stop gap centre half and gambled on Robbo being ok (which is more likely than Matip) and used Milner as cover there.

      Either way though, we took the gamble and it's backfired. What's worse is Jürgen now not being given some money to go fix it. Just give it him for fucks sake, FSG will get it back in the summer if that signing helps keep us in the top four.

      The ramifications and consequences of not finishing top 4 will last longer and cost alot more than buying a centre back. Madness
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #652: Jan 25, 2021 11:42:08 am
      I wanted Lovren sold for sure as he can't be trusted in a game but I'd still rather him at CB over Williams or Phillips.

      Yeah, I was no fan of Lovren, but I'd have him in ahead of Rhys/Nat any day. They're just not up to it.
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #653: Jan 25, 2021 11:45:22 am
      The ramifications and consequences of not finishing top 4 will last longer and cost alot more than buying a centre back. Madness

      Before Utd we hadn't scored in 4 matches - CB wasn't the main problem.

      Once we get Jota back, Hendo, and most importantly start scoring more in final third, think we'll make top4.

      Challenging for a title though might be more of a stretch - but no completely impossible just yet.
      ed603em
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #654: Jan 25, 2021 12:43:45 pm
      Quote the outgoings too please.

      £135 for Coutinho alone wipes out Virj and Ali

      The amount they have spent still massively outweighs what we have recouped. The spending on the stadium, training complex, club store are huge because those will provide additional income for decades to come. Our owners have invested in the long-term sustainability of the club - giving Klopp and his successors more money to spend on wages, transfer fees etc.
      ed603em
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #655: Jan 25, 2021 12:45:03 pm
      We aren't privy to what goes on was it not Klopps decision to go in with what we had ? Did he ask for a CB and was told no ? I am no fan of the owners but I ain't against as some are sure there are better owners as I am sure there are worse

      Out of interest, who - in the top flight in England - would you say are better owners?
      ed603em
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #656: Jan 25, 2021 12:46:42 pm
      Yeah, I was no fan of Lovren, but I'd have him in ahead of Rhys/Nat any day. They're just not up to it.

      They're both young and still learning ... might not be there yet but they will improve. I don't think Klopp would have gone with them if he didn't think they could potentially be a regular first-team player some day in the future.
      ed603em
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #657: Jan 25, 2021 12:51:37 pm
      I think the issue now is that clubs know how desperate we are for a CB so will try to fleece us. FSG know this too so won't entertain a transfer. It's back in the Summer we should have secured a CB after we sold Lovren. Most of our rivals were signing CB's I can't understand why we neglected to.

      The trouble is, who would we have signed? Anyone we would have approached in the summer would have known they will be playing second fiddle to VVD and Gomez so recruiting an established player in that position would always be difficult because they'd look at our rivals and work out they have more chance of playing in those teams. If we have players in the Youth setup who Klopp and the coaches think have a chance of developing into someone of the calibre of Gomez / VVD / Matip, then it makes more sense to give them a chance.

      rossyred
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #658: Jan 25, 2021 12:55:43 pm
      Out of interest, who - in the top flight in England - would you say are better owners?

      Can't answer that as I don't have a clue around what goes on . It would be very easy to say City and Chelsea due to the financial outlay owners at Villa seem to have backed their manager as well as I said I am somewhere in the middle but am sure someone else can account for who are the better ones
      ed603em
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #659: Jan 25, 2021 01:02:16 pm
      He said MOST others but I'll name you a few.

      Chelsea: Thiago Silva, Christiansen, Rudiger, Zouma, Azpi can play cb.

      Leicester: Fofana, Soyuncu, Evans, Morgan and Fuchs can play cb.

      Spurs: Alder, Sanchez, Dier, Tunganga and Rodon.

      There's your 5 for each team you quoted

      If the criteria is "can play CB" then we have just as many. Those teams don't have that many specialist CBs whose main position is CB.
      ed603em
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #660: Jan 25, 2021 01:07:55 pm
      Can't answer that as I don't have a clue around what goes on . It would be very easy to say City and Chelsea due to the financial outlay owners at Villa seem to have backed their manager as well as I said I am somewhere in the middle but am sure someone else can account for who are the better ones

      City and Chelsea are both wavering over stadium development ... talking about doing something but not quite delivering that much. I don't think there'll be many that come out ahead of FSG ... Spurs possibly with their £1bn new stadium ... our owners and doing an enormous amount to protect the future of our club.
      stuey
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #661: Jan 25, 2021 01:13:59 pm
      City and Chelsea are both wavering over stadium development ... talking about doing something but not quite delivering that much. I don't think there'll be many that come out ahead of FSG ... Spurs possibly with their £1bn new stadium ... our owners and doing an enormous amount to protect the future of our club.

      Surely the only viable investment in a football club is maintaining its status as a leader in the sport, the only way to achieve that end is an ongoing process of ensuring the team has the means to compete on a level playing field with its rivals.

      Bricks and mortar might be a solid financial asset but that does not win trophies!

      The amount they have spent still massively outweighs what we have recouped. The spending on the stadium, training complex, club store are huge because those will provide additional income for decades to come. Our owners have invested in the long-term sustainability of the club - giving Klopp and his successors more money to spend on wages, transfer fees etc.

      Once again the owners did not pay for the projects you  mention!
      The monies involved were by way of an interest free loan from FSG to the club.
      LFC is now worth close to £2bn on paper, the value to the club of any building projects is also on paper, the true value of FSG's investment in the FOOTBALL club was illustrated in our loss yesterday and our descent of the league.
      « Last Edit: Jan 25, 2021 01:41:33 pm by stuey »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #662: Jan 25, 2021 01:17:12 pm
      City and Chelsea are both wavering over stadium development ... talking about doing something but not quite delivering that much. I don't think there'll be many that come out ahead of FSG ... Spurs possibly with their £1bn new stadium ... our owners and doing an enormous amount to protect the future of our club.

      Chelsea's owner has had 16 managers in 16 years. Tuchel would be the 17th.
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #663: Jan 25, 2021 01:43:56 pm
      We wouldn’t be any better off with lovren still here. Anybody who thinks so have really short memories. That performance away at spurs a couple of seasons ago was probably the worst performance I’ve ever seen from a Liverpool cb.

      We should have replaced him though and going into this season with only three cbs, two of which are injury prone was criminal. We all raised our concerns pre season and we’ve been proven right.

      Love or hate the owners, the fact they’ve not gone out and signed a cb when we desperately need one and when our manager who is trusted & brought success to this club has stated he wants one is piss poor to be honest.

      Our success in recent years and our low net spend suggests plenty of money should be available. 

      erm I am fairly sure Lovren is better than Rhys and Nat, if you disagree please explain why?
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #664: Jan 25, 2021 01:45:07 pm
      They're both young and still learning ... might not be there yet but they will improve. I don't think Klopp would have gone with them if he didn't think they could potentially be a regular first-team player some day in the future.

      both young?? They are both 20+ aren't they. They are no where near the quality needed for a top team. Do you perhaps expect Rhys to get a lot faster, same with Nat.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Neil Ruddock
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #665: Jan 25, 2021 01:45:14 pm
      Chelsea's owner has had 16 managers in 16 years. Tuchel would be the 17th.

      Chelsea also have a number of league titles and a big ears.

      It's their way. We don't agree with it but it's their way and it works.

      I'd prefer they keep Anfield as it is and go buy players that will win us things
      « Last Edit: Jan 25, 2021 02:58:14 pm by Mmmklopp »
      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #666: Jan 25, 2021 01:52:55 pm
      The trouble is, who would we have signed? Anyone we would have approached in the summer would have known they will be playing second fiddle to VVD and Gomez so recruiting an established player in that position would always be difficult because they'd look at our rivals and work out they have more chance of playing in those teams. If we have players in the Youth setup who Klopp and the coaches think have a chance of developing into someone of the calibre of Gomez / VVD / Matip, then it makes more sense to give them a chance.



      City signed Ake with the player knowing he would be playing second fiddle that's the type of signing to make. Even Godfrey from Norwich who the Bitters signed would have been an improvement on Williams and Phillips.

      The players were out there just no willingness by the club to reinforce at CB.
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #667: Jan 25, 2021 02:50:50 pm
      They're both young and still learning ... might not be there yet but they will improve. I don't think Klopp would have gone with them if he didn't think they could potentially be a regular first-team player some day in the future.

      Nat almost left recently. Rhys struggles for pace. They could improve, just not sure they'll be doing it at LFC.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Neil Ruddock
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #668: Jan 25, 2021 02:57:30 pm
      If the criteria is "can play CB" then we have just as many. Those teams don't have that many specialist CBs whose main position is CB.

      Spurs have four (Sanchez, Dier, Alder and Rodon)

      Chelsea have four (Christiansen, Rudiger, Zouma and Thiago)

      City have five (Stones, Laporte, Diaz, Garcia and Ake)

      United have four (Lindelof, Mcguire, Bailly and Rojo)

      We have three of which two are constantly injured.

      So in that list there's no one who "can play cb".
      brezipool
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      • COME ON THE REDMEN !
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #669: Jan 25, 2021 03:54:43 pm
      Not arsed about FA cup. just wanted to beat the mancs.

      Nice to see more threat in attack last night, couple of individual errors cost us. that's it.

      And yes, we do need a CB, but still dont see it happening till the summer. Can blame owners, luck, covid, whatever. It is what it is.

      YNWA !!!
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #670: Jan 25, 2021 03:55:57 pm
      Spurs have four (Sanchez, Dier, Alder and Rodon)

      Chelsea have four (Christiansen, Rudiger, Zouma and Thiago)

      City have five (Stones, Laporte, Diaz, Garcia and Ake)

      United have four (Lindelof, Mcguire, Bailly and Rojo)

      We have three of which two are constantly injured.

      So in that list there's no one who "can play cb".


      The issue is not so much having 3 CB's, Fabinho can be considered a 4th CB for short periods of time, the issue is that two of our main CB's are very injury prone, one incredibly so. I would say that all we really need to do is replace Matip with someone who can play more than 2 games before pulling a muscle. Joe also is quite injury prone but within acceptable parameters.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Neil Ruddock
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #671: Jan 25, 2021 04:20:09 pm
      The issue is not so much having 3 CB's, Fabinho can be considered a 4th CB for short periods of time, the issue is that two of our main CB's are very injury prone, one incredibly so. I would say that all we really need to do is replace Matip with someone who can play more than 2 games before pulling a muscle. Joe also is quite injury prone but within acceptable parameters.

      I agree.

      The board should have looked at Matip and seen his injury record. That should have been enough to bring in another CB.

      Also, why does there have to be two starting CB's then someone who knows he'll play second fiddle?

      Why can't we have three very good centre backs who will battle it out for the starting two spots?

      I mean, by the time the summer window opened, we were only former champions league, current premier league, current world club cup and current super cup champions.

      Aston Villa spend more than us!!! Did Covid happen to miss them?
      scotscouse
      • Forum Matt Busby
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #672: Jan 26, 2021 12:08:34 am
      CB next season VVD and Ramos free transfer YNWA
      heimdall
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #673: Jan 26, 2021 09:21:32 am
      CB next season VVD and Ramos free transfer YNWA

      Oh I do hope you are joking!
      0112358
      • Forum David Johnson
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #674: Jan 26, 2021 09:35:06 am
      Many here do Lovren injustice. The guy is one of the best CB's in the world, he played in the World Cup Final with Croatia (which has many good footballers to choose from).

      I think this whole mess is mainly Jürgen's fault. He refuses to play lower to support our defense. With such a tactic he could play Rhys and Nat and put Fab back into midfield. Instead he plays like we usually play (= very high) and of course this tactic is more risky and suited for Matip-VVD who are faster, more skilled and more experienced. Not smart. Buvac would call out Jürgen for this. :)

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