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      Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 14,525 posts | 2034 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #600: Jan 24, 2021 08:30:33 pm
      Gomez as CB if signing doesn’t work or takes time. If not RB cover. We need more players in defence now.It’s blaring obvious right now


      We need to sign a CB like Ake.

      A young CB with plenty of experience and quality who won't mind being back up at times.

      Shame we didn't go for him in the Summer but we were too busy haggling over a few quid for a backup LB.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Peter Beardsley
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      • 179 posts | 37 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #601: Jan 24, 2021 08:30:45 pm
      So how much do we spend and on who. VvD is coming back possibly even this season and Gomez will be back as well next season. If wee go all in and spend 30-50 million on a player do they decide they want a big upgrade on Gomez or do we spend that much on someone who'll be third choice or maybe 4th behind Matip when Gomez does return.

      Spurs: They had Alderweireld and Vertonghen but decided to pay £30m+ for Sanchez and that kid from Swansea as well as moving Dier to permanent CB. Total centre backs: 5.

      United: They had Bailly £30m and Lindelof £35m but decided to sign Mcguire for £80m and they have Rojo. Total centre backs: 4 (they will not blink should they need to sign another).

      City: They had Stones £50m and Laported £50m+ but decided to spend £20m on Ake and £60m+ on Dias (City aren't a fair comparison) and they have Garcia. Total centre backs: 5.

      Chelsea: They had Rudiger, Zouma and Christiensen but still offered Thiago Silva top money to come in. Total centre backs 4 (they will not blink should they need to sign another).

      Liverpool: We started the season with Virgil, Gomez (injury prone) and Matip (extremely injury prone). That's ONE centre back we can rely on who happens to get a season ending injury. We find ourselves in a position where both centre backs get season ending injuries. It leaves us with a completely glass centre back Matip and two kids who aren't good enough
       Look at Rhys Williams today. Look at how he was taken advantage of. Look at the mistake for the goal. Look at his positioning. How he was bypassed by the United attack.

      These fraud owners have left us in this situation. They've decided to do what NO OTHER Premier League side have done.

      I want them gone. People can come along and say "we've won trophies under them etc".

      We've always had to sell a star player.

      Our manager has done this on a shoe string budget.

      £20m net spend. That's ridiculous. They're penny pinching was bound to sting us at some point. It has now.

      I've had enough and I want these tight b*stards out of this club


      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 924 posts | 292 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #602: Jan 24, 2021 08:32:31 pm
      Haha fair play to you mate I wish i could take that tone.

      The title however is not on the agenda. Top 4 is going to be very difficult for us. We need to start winning some games.

      I disagree.  I know the momentum appears to be in the wrong direction, but the title is definitely still on the agenda.  We need to stop stressing about it, as a fanbase, as a club perhaps, but a few decent wins and everything turns again.  6 points can be reeled in from the halfway point...

      Doubters to believers, and all that!
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 16,702 posts | 1931 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #603: Jan 24, 2021 08:32:45 pm
      Seems to be a few peolle feeling sorry for Rhys, and I get that.

      However hes 20 next week. Take Gomez, debuted at 18 and looked like he was ready and good enough. I think Rhys just isnt good enough and likely wont be. Hes too slow for a start
      srslfc
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • Started Topic
      • 27,577 posts | 2790 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #604: Jan 24, 2021 08:44:18 pm
      Seems to be a few peolle feeling sorry for Rhys, and I get that.

      However hes 20 next week. Take Gomez, debuted at 18 and looked like he was ready and good enough. I think Rhys just isnt good enough and likely wont be. Hes too slow for a start

      He likely isn't good enough but on the flip side we shouldn't be having to play him as much this season in an ideal world.

      The plan was probably another loan to see what he's made of then either sell or keep in the summer.
      LondonRed83
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 13,321 posts | 2141 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #605: Jan 24, 2021 08:47:15 pm
      Spurs: They had Alderweireld and Vertonghen but decided to pay £30m+ for Sanchez and that kid from Swansea as well as moving Dier to permanent CB. Total centre backs: 5.

      United: They had Bailly £30m and Lindelof £35m but decided to sign Mcguire for £80m and they have Rojo. Total centre backs: 4 (they will not blink should they need to sign another).

      City: They had Stones £50m and Laported £50m+ but decided to spend £20m on Ake and £60m+ on Dias (City aren't a fair comparison) and they have Garcia. Total centre backs: 5.

      Chelsea: They had Rudiger, Zouma and Christiensen but still offered Thiago Silva top money to come in. Total centre backs 4 (they will not blink should they need to sign another).

      Liverpool: We started the season with Virgil, Gomez (injury prone) and Matip (extremely injury prone). That's ONE centre back we can rely on who happens to get a season ending injury. We find ourselves in a position where both centre backs get season ending injuries. It leaves us with a completely glass centre back Matip and two kids who aren't good enough
       Look at Rhys Williams today. Look at how he was taken advantage of. Look at the mistake for the goal. Look at his positioning. How he was bypassed by the United attack.

      These fraud owners have left us in this situation. They've decided to do what NO OTHER Premier League side have done.

      I want them gone. People can come along and say "we've won trophies under them etc".

      We've always had to sell a star player.

      Our manager has done this on a shoe string budget.

      £20m net spend. That's ridiculous. They're penny pinching was bound to sting us at some point. It has now.

      I've had enough and I want these tight b*stards out of this club

      Can’t argue with this
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 924 posts | 292 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #606: Jan 24, 2021 08:51:33 pm
      That for me was an issue that should have been dealt  with during the summer window. But now we'd struggle to get the quality required and I refer to my post about spending that much now on a 3rd or 4th choice potentially. January is never a good time to buy in my opinion. I just hope that if they don't buy then it's a football management decision rather than FSG shutting the bank.

      Rhys Williams had some good games when he first came in, but now looks exposed too soon.  I'm not blaming him for that - he's a Premier League CB in the making at 19.  There's a learning curve there that he needs to be allowed to traverse. 

      We should surely look to buy now, even though the likelihood of getting anyone who's good enough for anything other than stupid money is probably slim.

      There are decent defensive minded CB's out there we could tempt: Coady, Mee, Dunk, Mings, to name a few Brits.

      2 things I think we need to realise:
         a)  we don't need a 3rd / 4th choice CB, we need someone who feels they're challenging Joe Gomez for 2nd CB. 
         b)  we need to look at CBs who, first and foremost, have mastered the defensive side of the game inside out.  Making 50 yard passes is a luxury. Our defending at times has been comical, naive, risk-intense, even with VVD and Joe at times.

      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,693 posts | 2709 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #607: Jan 24, 2021 08:58:07 pm
      Rhys Williams had some good games when he first came in, but now looks exposed too soon.  I'm not blaming him for that - he's a Premier League CB in the making at 19.  There's a learning curve there that he needs to be allowed to traverse. 

      We should surely look to buy now, even though the likelihood of getting anyone who's good enough for anything other than stupid money is probably slim.

      There are decent defensive minded CB's out there we could tempt: Coady, Mee, Dunk, Mings, to name a few Brits.

      2 things I think we need to realise:
         a)  we don't need a 3rd / 4th choice CB, we need someone who feels they're challenging Joe Gomez for 2nd CB. 
         b)  we need to look at CBs who, first and foremost, have mastered the defensive side of the game inside out.  Making 50 yard passes is a luxury. Our defending at times has been comical, naive, risk-intense, even with VVD and Joe at times.



      Sorry but in no way is Rhys a Premier league CB, he would not start for any other team in the league.
      Our not signing a CB in summer or now will cost us massively, its utterly idiotic from the owners.
      Tadders
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 5,082 posts | 365 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #608: Jan 24, 2021 09:00:07 pm
      Losing Gomez, vvd and the fabs brilliance in midfield and even Jordan just changes the whole way we play- not sure keeping Lovren would be an improvement but Rhys just looked too nervous and misses everything he needed to make. Add in Losing jota - again not for a game but about 12.

      We will make top 4 I hope and go again next season - wouldn’t fancy playing Bayern Munich or Simone’s cheats in the CL
      HamannsTheMan
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,644 posts | 1651 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #609: Jan 24, 2021 09:02:06 pm
      No problems with the line up. We were actually a lot stronger than what I thought we would be. The obvious weak link was Williams and unfortunately that proved to be the case. He was all over the place from start to finish and looked completely out of his depth. I don’t accept his age as an excuse either, you’re either good enough or you’re not. That wasn’t just a bad day at the office for him, he showed he his nowhere near this level.

      Moving onto the game, I thought it was pretty even throughout. We seemed to have more of the ball but they were always dangerous on the break.

      I’m finding it really frustrating watching us attack at the moment though. The pace of our play in the final third has slowed down. I know teams are sitting in and making it difficult for us but we dwell on the ball far too often. We don’t have the type of players for Tika taka so pack it in for fucks sake. Move the ball quicker and get some f**king shots off.

      A bit silly really but another thing that annoyed me was the lack of celebration with our goals. I’m not expecting them all to take their tops off and run around screaming but we go 1-0 up at old Trafford in a cup game and salah just turns around as if it’s a pre season friendly against tranmere. Team mates walking or jogging over to him. We then equalise and it was the same. I know there’s no fans but show a bit of passion boys come on. Strangely, I thought uniteds players were similar too, it was like a respectable friendly.

      Despite the result there were a few positives to take. For a start we f**king scored. Salah took his goals well. Bobby was in and out the game but showed moments of brilliance.

      The negatives are obviously we’re out the cup to f**king them of all teams, our poor run continues, rhys was sh*t and Trent had another shocker too. Few other players will get away with a poor performance today too due to rhys and Trent being the stand out ones. Gini didn’t turn up, milner wasn’t great and curtis Jones even though he has good tidy feet never does enough to really make a difference in a match or stand out for me.

      The spurs game is a must win for us.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 924 posts | 292 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #610: Jan 24, 2021 09:09:16 pm
      Sorry but in no way is Rhys a Premier league CB, he would not start for any other team in the league.
      Our not signing a CB in summer or now will cost us massively, its utterly idiotic from the owners.

      I agree with your last statement, although I'd insert "is likely to" for your "will."  Just me being as positive as I dare at this stage!

      Sorry, but I did not say Rhys IS a Premier League CB.  I said he's a Premier League CB in the making.  At 19.

      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,693 posts | 2709 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #611: Jan 24, 2021 09:26:02 pm
      I agree with your last statement, although I'd insert "is likely to" for your "will."  Just me being as positive as I dare at this stage!

      Sorry, but I did not say Rhys IS a Premier League CB.  I said he's a Premier League CB in the making.  At 19.



      I would be amazed if Rhys ever makes it at an elite level, where he would be a starting first choice CB.

      I am still utterly baffled why Klopp plays him instead of Nat and even more baffled why we never replaced Lovren, especially in this windows. I consider it a dereliction of duty from the owners.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 4,438 posts | 709 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #612: Jan 24, 2021 09:28:05 pm
      I would be amazed if Rhys ever makes it at an elite level, where he would be a starting first choice CB.

      I am still utterly baffled why Klopp plays him instead of Nat and even more baffled why we never replaced Lovren, especially in this windows. I consider it a dereliction of duty from the owners.

      Not much between them both and to be honest I ain't even that assed they didn't sign one in the Summer two freak injuries costly but not to rectify this in the transfer window negligible
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,693 posts | 2709 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #613: Jan 24, 2021 09:31:35 pm
      Not much between them both and to be honest I ain't even that assed they didn't sign one in the Summer two freak injuries costly but not to rectify this in the transfer window negligible

      so you really thought starting a season with 3 CB's, 2 of which are very injury prone, was ok, when most other teams have 5?
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Peter Beardsley
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      • 179 posts | 37 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #614: Jan 24, 2021 09:38:52 pm
      so you really thought starting a season with 3 CB's, 2 of which are very injury prone, was ok, when most other teams have 5?

      I agree with you 100%.

      We have ONE striker and Origi (so so so not good enough) when all other teams have 2/3.

      We have 3 wingers when most teams havd 4/5.

      We have a sh*t load of centre mids for no apparant reason.

      We have NO replacement right back. We actually have no one to replace Trent. No one to push him for his place. He knows no matter how bad he plays he'll be in the next starting 11 because we actually have no one to replace him with.

      We have ZERO fit centre backs at our club and refuse to sign any new ones.

      I'm lost for words
      Brown1
      • Forum Youth Player

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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #615: Jan 24, 2021 09:45:48 pm
      It was a bad game, Klopp team selection was wrong, at CB it should be Phillips he is more steady than young Rys Williams, I just don't understand why Klopp does not play Phillips! his past performances were very good.
      Salah missed two goals, had he scored the two good chances we would have won easily, however, the scums were more clinics than us, and we made too many mistakes at the back,  once again we played too many squares a back passes, slow build-up. Thiago should be used more forward rather than being too deep, he was excellent.
      The scums were lucky with their winning goal, it was not a free-kick at all, the referee was awful.

      We need to improve a great deal in order to catch the scum, they are well ahead of us in all departments, it is sad to say it, however, not a long while ago, some football experts said LFC will dominate English football for years to come! I think they were short-sighted, LFC can not dominate with its existing squad, while the likes of Origi, Gini, and other average players in it, we still need at least four top-quality players to make our squad excellent.

      The Spurs game will be vital, therefore, we need a big performance and no weird team selection from Klopp.

      Good luck lads
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 4,438 posts | 709 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #616: Jan 24, 2021 09:48:45 pm
      so you really thought starting a season with 3 CB's, 2 of which are very injury prone, was ok, when most other teams have 5?

      Yep if it meant a choice between that position and getting better back up for the front 3 it was a gamble and it hasn't paid off but that's what transfer windows are for to rectify these gambles and cover injuries  if any accumulated
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 4,438 posts | 709 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #617: Jan 24, 2021 09:53:46 pm
      so you really thought starting a season with 3 CB's, 2 of which are very injury prone, was ok, when most other teams have 5?

      Who are Chelsea and Spurs 5 CBs, Who are Leicesters 5 CBS ? So that's 3 of the top 6 and can pretty much guarantee the lower you go they won't either
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #618: Jan 24, 2021 09:53:50 pm
      Thought Gini poor today bullied at times by Pogba created nothing offensively and lost possession  too much .

      Gini hasn't had many good games since the restart and if he is leaving I don't think we will see many more as he won't want to get injured before getting his new contract with Barca with a fat signing on fee.
      shawspeed
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #619: Jan 24, 2021 09:55:32 pm
      I think it was too, as does that c**t Shearer. He waited on the contact but it was there. Soft but they get given.

      And yet Salah nearly gets his head pulled off every game and nothing
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Peter Beardsley
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #620: Jan 24, 2021 09:59:55 pm
      Who are Chelsea and Spurs 5 CBs, Who are Leicesters 5 CBS ? So that's 3 of the top 6 and can pretty much guarantee the lower you go they won't either

      He said MOST others but I'll name you a few.

      Chelsea: Thiago Silva, Christiansen, Rudiger, Zouma, Azpi can play cb.

      Leicester: Fofana, Soyuncu, Evans, Morgan and Fuchs can play cb.

      Spurs: Alder, Sanchez, Dier, Tunganga and Rodon.

      There's your 5 for each team you quoted
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #621: Jan 24, 2021 10:00:50 pm
      We need to sign a CB like Ake.

      A young CB with plenty of experience and quality who won't mind being back up at times.

      Shame we didn't go for him in the Summer but we were too busy haggling over a few quid for a backup LB.

      Upamecano is available for £37.5m in the summer from Leipzig and looks perfect for the way we play but their are a couple of options in this window,Kabak from Schalke 04 and Botman from Lille who both need the funds so we may get them for around 15-20m.
      chats
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #622: Jan 24, 2021 10:07:12 pm
      It was a massive gamble to go in with 3 centre backs like we did of. Especially when two of them we knew would pick up injuries. Yes VVD's you can't plan for but Gomez has had an injury every season and Matip well he's Matip. It's one thing going in with three centre backs but it's a whole new kind of thing when two of them are Matip and Gomez.

      I understand we had a limited budget so I'm not saying we should have spent 40m on one but I'd have either kept Lovren around or used his money on a stop gap centre half and gambled on Robbo being ok (which is more likely than Matip) and used Milner as cover there.

      Either way though, we took the gamble and it's backfired. What's worse is Jürgen now not being given some money to go fix it. Just give it him for fucks sake, FSG will get it back in the summer if that signing helps keep us in the top four.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 4,438 posts | 709 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #623: Jan 24, 2021 10:09:28 pm
      He said MOST others but I'll name you a few.

      Chelsea: Thiago Silva, Christiansen, Rudiger, Zouma, Azpi can play cb.

      Leicester: Fofana, Soyuncu, Evans, Morgan and Fuchs can play cb.

      Spurs: Alder, Sanchez, Dier, Tunganga and Rodon.

      There's your 5 for each team you quoted

      Dier a CM so like Fab then , Tunganaga weary probably on a par with our 4 and 5 CB and a young pup just signed
      Leicester Morgan can hardly walk never mind run and pissoff with Fuchs as a CB

      Chelsea 4  proper CBS aspi as you say in  back 3
      bazspeedman
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      • 14,525 posts | 2034 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #624: Jan 24, 2021 10:09:50 pm
      Upamecano is available for £37.5m in the summer from Leipzig and looks perfect for the way we play but their are a couple of options in this window,Kabak from Schalke 04 and Botman from Lille who both need the funds so we may get them for around 15-20m.

      I think the issue now is that clubs know how desperate we are for a CB so will try to fleece us. FSG know this too so won't entertain a transfer. It's back in the Summer we should have secured a CB after we sold Lovren. Most of our rivals were signing CB's I can't understand why we neglected to.

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