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      Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      bazspeedman
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 15,743 posts | 2436 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #644: Jan 25, 2021 08:58:06 am
      We wouldn’t be any better off with lovren still here. Anybody who thinks so have really short memories. That performance away at spurs a couple of seasons ago was probably the worst performance I’ve ever seen from a Liverpool cb.

      We should have replaced him though and going into this season with only three cbs, two of which are injury prone was criminal. We all raised our concerns pre season and we’ve been proven right.

      Love or hate the owners, the fact they’ve not gone out and signed a cb when we desperately need one and when our manager who is trusted & brought success to this club has stated he wants one is piss poor to be honest.

      Our success in recent years and our low net spend suggests plenty of money should be available. 

      I wanted Lovren sold for sure as he can't be trusted in a game but I'd still rather him at CB over Williams or Phillips.

      To sell a very experienced CB and replace with nout after winning the PL title makes no sense on any level.

      We should have made this a priority signing.
      Robby The Z
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      • 9,034 posts | 2690 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #645: Jan 25, 2021 09:41:24 am
      I agree with you 100%.

      We have ONE striker and Origi (so so so not good enough) when all other teams have 2/3.

      We have 3 wingers when most teams havd 4/5.

      We have a sh*t load of centre mids for no apparant reason.

      We have NO replacement right back. We actually have no one to replace Trent. No one to push him for his place. He knows no matter how bad he plays he'll be in the next starting 11 because we actually have no one to replace him with.

      We have ZERO fit centre backs at our club and refuse to sign any new ones.

      I'm lost for words

      If only...
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #646: Jan 25, 2021 09:42:44 am
      It was a bad game, Klopp team selection was wrong, at CB it should be Phillips he is more steady than young Rys Williams, I just don't understand why Klopp does not play Phillips! his past performances were very good.
      Salah missed two goals, had he scored the two good chances we would have won easily, however, the scums were more clinics than us, and we made too many mistakes at the back,  once again we played too many squares a back passes, slow build-up. Thiago should be used more forward rather than being too deep, he was excellent.
      The scums were lucky with their winning goal, it was not a free-kick at all, the referee was awful.

      We need to improve a great deal in order to catch the scum, they are well ahead of us in all departments, it is sad to say it, however, not a long while ago, some football experts said LFC will dominate English football for years to come! I think they were short-sighted, LFC can not dominate with its existing squad, while the likes of Origi, Gini, and other average players in it, we still need at least four top-quality players to make our squad excellent.

      The Spurs game will be vital, therefore, we need a big performance and no weird team selection from Klopp.

      Good luck lads

      Coming out of the woodwork now...
      Rockafella88
      • Forum John Toshack
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #647: Jan 25, 2021 09:44:16 am
      Hendo in mid yesterday and we wouldn't of lost that game.

      His importance in tracking is completely under appreciated. William's and trent got F***ing done today.

      William's is just too slow. Seeing him dive into tackles even I could jump and skip it.
      David Wright
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      • 5,233 posts | 751 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #648: Jan 25, 2021 10:02:04 am
      Badly need to sort out the defence, with so many injuries, players playing out of position. Need to start picking up points in the league for certain  On a more positive note 2 goals for Mo Salah.
      Don77
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 6,326 posts | 1036 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #649: Jan 25, 2021 10:12:19 am
      It was a massive gamble to go in with 3 centre backs like we did of. Especially when two of them we knew would pick up injuries. Yes VVD's you can't plan for but Gomez has had an injury every season and Matip well he's Matip. It's one thing going in with three centre backs but it's a whole new kind of thing when two of them are Matip and Gomez.

      I understand we had a limited budget so I'm not saying we should have spent 40m on one but I'd have either kept Lovren around or used his money on a stop gap centre half and gambled on Robbo being ok (which is more likely than Matip) and used Milner as cover there.

      Either way though, we took the gamble and it's backfired. What's worse is Jürgen now not being given some money to go fix it. Just give it him for fucks sake, FSG will get it back in the summer if that signing helps keep us in the top four.

      The ramifications and consequences of not finishing top 4 will last longer and cost alot more than buying a centre back. Madness
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #650: Jan 25, 2021 11:42:08 am
      I wanted Lovren sold for sure as he can't be trusted in a game but I'd still rather him at CB over Williams or Phillips.

      Yeah, I was no fan of Lovren, but I'd have him in ahead of Rhys/Nat any day. They're just not up to it.
      bmck
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • YNWA
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #651: Jan 25, 2021 11:45:22 am
      The ramifications and consequences of not finishing top 4 will last longer and cost alot more than buying a centre back. Madness

      Before Utd we hadn't scored in 4 matches - CB wasn't the main problem.

      Once we get Jota back, Hendo, and most importantly start scoring more in final third, think we'll make top4.

      Challenging for a title though might be more of a stretch - but no completely impossible just yet.
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #652: Jan 25, 2021 12:43:45 pm
      Quote the outgoings too please.

      £135 for Coutinho alone wipes out Virj and Ali

      The amount they have spent still massively outweighs what we have recouped. The spending on the stadium, training complex, club store are huge because those will provide additional income for decades to come. Our owners have invested in the long-term sustainability of the club - giving Klopp and his successors more money to spend on wages, transfer fees etc.
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #653: Jan 25, 2021 12:45:03 pm
      We aren't privy to what goes on was it not Klopps decision to go in with what we had ? Did he ask for a CB and was told no ? I am no fan of the owners but I ain't against as some are sure there are better owners as I am sure there are worse

      Out of interest, who - in the top flight in England - would you say are better owners?
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #654: Jan 25, 2021 12:46:42 pm
      Yeah, I was no fan of Lovren, but I'd have him in ahead of Rhys/Nat any day. They're just not up to it.

      They're both young and still learning ... might not be there yet but they will improve. I don't think Klopp would have gone with them if he didn't think they could potentially be a regular first-team player some day in the future.
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #655: Jan 25, 2021 12:51:37 pm
      I think the issue now is that clubs know how desperate we are for a CB so will try to fleece us. FSG know this too so won't entertain a transfer. It's back in the Summer we should have secured a CB after we sold Lovren. Most of our rivals were signing CB's I can't understand why we neglected to.

      The trouble is, who would we have signed? Anyone we would have approached in the summer would have known they will be playing second fiddle to VVD and Gomez so recruiting an established player in that position would always be difficult because they'd look at our rivals and work out they have more chance of playing in those teams. If we have players in the Youth setup who Klopp and the coaches think have a chance of developing into someone of the calibre of Gomez / VVD / Matip, then it makes more sense to give them a chance.

      rossyred
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #656: Jan 25, 2021 12:55:43 pm
      Out of interest, who - in the top flight in England - would you say are better owners?

      Can't answer that as I don't have a clue around what goes on . It would be very easy to say City and Chelsea due to the financial outlay owners at Villa seem to have backed their manager as well as I said I am somewhere in the middle but am sure someone else can account for who are the better ones
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #657: Jan 25, 2021 01:02:16 pm
      He said MOST others but I'll name you a few.

      Chelsea: Thiago Silva, Christiansen, Rudiger, Zouma, Azpi can play cb.

      Leicester: Fofana, Soyuncu, Evans, Morgan and Fuchs can play cb.

      Spurs: Alder, Sanchez, Dier, Tunganga and Rodon.

      There's your 5 for each team you quoted

      If the criteria is "can play CB" then we have just as many. Those teams don't have that many specialist CBs whose main position is CB.
      ed603em
      • Forum Emlyn Hughes
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      • 727 posts | 111 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #658: Jan 25, 2021 01:07:55 pm
      Can't answer that as I don't have a clue around what goes on . It would be very easy to say City and Chelsea due to the financial outlay owners at Villa seem to have backed their manager as well as I said I am somewhere in the middle but am sure someone else can account for who are the better ones

      City and Chelsea are both wavering over stadium development ... talking about doing something but not quite delivering that much. I don't think there'll be many that come out ahead of FSG ... Spurs possibly with their £1bn new stadium ... our owners and doing an enormous amount to protect the future of our club.
      stuey
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      • 35,961 posts | 3943 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #659: Jan 25, 2021 01:13:59 pm
      City and Chelsea are both wavering over stadium development ... talking about doing something but not quite delivering that much. I don't think there'll be many that come out ahead of FSG ... Spurs possibly with their £1bn new stadium ... our owners and doing an enormous amount to protect the future of our club.

      Surely the only viable investment in a football club is maintaining its status as a leader in the sport, the only way to achieve that end is an ongoing process of ensuring the team has the means to compete on a level playing field with its rivals.

      Bricks and mortar might be a solid financial asset but that does not win trophies!

      The amount they have spent still massively outweighs what we have recouped. The spending on the stadium, training complex, club store are huge because those will provide additional income for decades to come. Our owners have invested in the long-term sustainability of the club - giving Klopp and his successors more money to spend on wages, transfer fees etc.

      Once again the owners did not pay for the projects you  mention!
      The monies involved were by way of an interest free loan from FSG to the club.
      LFC is now worth close to £2bn on paper, the value to the club of any building projects is also on paper, the true value of FSG's investment in the FOOTBALL club was illustrated in our loss yesterday and our descent of the league.
      « Last Edit: Jan 25, 2021 01:41:33 pm by stuey »
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #660: Jan 25, 2021 01:17:12 pm
      City and Chelsea are both wavering over stadium development ... talking about doing something but not quite delivering that much. I don't think there'll be many that come out ahead of FSG ... Spurs possibly with their £1bn new stadium ... our owners and doing an enormous amount to protect the future of our club.

      Chelsea's owner has had 16 managers in 16 years. Tuchel would be the 17th.
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,818 posts | 2724 
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #661: Jan 25, 2021 01:43:56 pm
      We wouldn’t be any better off with lovren still here. Anybody who thinks so have really short memories. That performance away at spurs a couple of seasons ago was probably the worst performance I’ve ever seen from a Liverpool cb.

      We should have replaced him though and going into this season with only three cbs, two of which are injury prone was criminal. We all raised our concerns pre season and we’ve been proven right.

      Love or hate the owners, the fact they’ve not gone out and signed a cb when we desperately need one and when our manager who is trusted & brought success to this club has stated he wants one is piss poor to be honest.

      Our success in recent years and our low net spend suggests plenty of money should be available. 

      erm I am fairly sure Lovren is better than Rhys and Nat, if you disagree please explain why?
      heimdall
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #662: Jan 25, 2021 01:45:07 pm
      They're both young and still learning ... might not be there yet but they will improve. I don't think Klopp would have gone with them if he didn't think they could potentially be a regular first-team player some day in the future.

      both young?? They are both 20+ aren't they. They are no where near the quality needed for a top team. Do you perhaps expect Rhys to get a lot faster, same with Nat.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #663: Jan 25, 2021 01:45:14 pm
      Chelsea's owner has had 16 managers in 16 years. Tuchel would be the 17th.

      Chelsea also have a number of league titles and a big ears.

      It's their way. We don't agree with it but it's their way and it works.

      I'd prefer they keep Anfield as it is and go buy players that will win us things
      « Last Edit: Jan 25, 2021 02:58:14 pm by Mmmklopp »
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #664: Jan 25, 2021 01:52:55 pm
      The trouble is, who would we have signed? Anyone we would have approached in the summer would have known they will be playing second fiddle to VVD and Gomez so recruiting an established player in that position would always be difficult because they'd look at our rivals and work out they have more chance of playing in those teams. If we have players in the Youth setup who Klopp and the coaches think have a chance of developing into someone of the calibre of Gomez / VVD / Matip, then it makes more sense to give them a chance.



      City signed Ake with the player knowing he would be playing second fiddle that's the type of signing to make. Even Godfrey from Norwich who the Bitters signed would have been an improvement on Williams and Phillips.

      The players were out there just no willingness by the club to reinforce at CB.
      bmck
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      • YNWA
      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #665: Jan 25, 2021 02:50:50 pm
      They're both young and still learning ... might not be there yet but they will improve. I don't think Klopp would have gone with them if he didn't think they could potentially be a regular first-team player some day in the future.

      Nat almost left recently. Rhys struggles for pace. They could improve, just not sure they'll be doing it at LFC.
      Mmmklopp
      • Forum Kevin Keegan
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      Re: Manchester United 3-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #666: Jan 25, 2021 02:57:30 pm
      If the criteria is "can play CB" then we have just as many. Those teams don't have that many specialist CBs whose main position is CB.

      Spurs have four (Sanchez, Dier, Alder and Rodon)

      Chelsea have four (Christiansen, Rudiger, Zouma and Thiago)

      City have five (Stones, Laporte, Diaz, Garcia and Ake)

      United have four (Lindelof, Mcguire, Bailly and Rojo)

      We have three of which two are constantly injured.

      So in that list there's no one who "can play cb".

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