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      Perspective

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      Brian78
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      Perspective
      Feb 08, 2021 12:18:12 pm
      The idea of this topic is not to try and tell people they should not be displeased with recent results of performances, nor is it to suggest that you are not a worthy fan if you show your displeasure. Its simply to step back and assess why we might be in the bad run we are in.

      Firstly, let’s get covid out of the way. We have no idea what effect its having on the players and management team. Yes, all teams are in the same boat. But maybe the current climate is influencing the lad’s drive. Its easier to motivate yourself from the challenger position in normal circumstances never mind the current climate. We don’t know if these players and management are seeing less of their families due to the circumstances we don’t know if these players have been affected by being told family or friends are sick. We know some have had it themselves, we don’t know if that has affected performance. For example, have the south American lads seen family other then video calls for months now?

      On the pitch as is well highlighted, the injuries. Yes, every team has injuries. But how many teams have 15 central defensive partnerships due to injury in 23 games? Not only has it led to midfielders playing in defence, thus taking world class midfielders out of the midfield sector, but the inconsistency of team selection is not a good thing. A team cannot have a flow with constant change in the players operating the system.  You get a player back you lose another. You keep your central defenders together for a 2nd game then you lose your keeper, its been crazy.

      In reality would any team fair better than we have? Would city win 10 in a row with Gundogan having to partner Rodrigo in the heart of the defence, and then lose Ederson on top of that or united, would they be in 2nd with Pogba playing centre half alongside Fred?

      In sport, and I’m sure most have played some level of some sport, when you place so much energy into reaching a target and you finally reach it the following season is much harder. Its hard to get yourself up to the levels because sometimes you just can’t lift yourself when you need to because its just not there to give. For everyone playing you as the champion you are now the big target. Now I’m not saying that’s alright, that being champion allows you to ease off, it doesn’t but when you have other quality teams hunting you down and everyone else going beyond their best to stop you and you have nothing left to give its hard. The style this team played with for several seasons aligned with the injury run this season will drain the energy.

      In the 2018 season this team lost 5 league games and went to the champions league final. A season later they lost 1 game, winning 30, to fall just short of a title in 2nd place, but went a step further in Europe winning the champions league. A season later, they win the league title winning 32 games. Losing 3 2 of which after they are crowned champions. That’s some run.

      Add in then that Trent, VVD, Gomez, Robbo, Matip, Fab,Gini, Hendo, Millie, Mo, Sadio, Bobby put serious mileage on the clock in those seasons, with Shaq, Ox, Origi playing a fair share, and they are all still here. Yes, we added some in the intervening summers, but we have so rarely seen Keita and then this year we lose Thiago Tsimikas and Jota for long spells, so your back asking the same guys to go again, no rest.

      I noticed some mentioning that Jürgen doesn’t look himself lately! Going back to what I said earlier, we don’t know his circumstance. Is covid hitting him? Is he not seeing his family? He has given himself for 5 years to get us over the line that we waited to cross for 30 years, is it possible that he’s drained? Of course, it is. What does he feed off at matches? The crowd, the crowd that he cant have right when he needs them the most. He’s human, don’t think for a second that he doesn’t go home and curse these injuries or these results or other things that we don’t even know about.

      So perspective, yes its been a disaster of a league season so far. Yes, we have given up the title. Yes, were disappointed. But let’s not forget what these guys have given us over the last 3 or 4 years. Every team has blips. We are in ours now. This blip could still see us finish 2nd or 3rd and still be crowned champions of Europe again! Things seem bad but step back and look from a different angle. Yesterday losing 4 1 sounds terrible, but 4 goalkeeping errors are made, first one he palms straight out, 2nd and 3rd don’t need more highlighting and the 4the he drops to his knees and the ball goes in over his head, he stands up its not a goal. Take out hi 4 mistakes it’s a different outcome against the team lauded as world class and heirs to our crown. These lads will come good again and they have earned and deserve our total support to the end.         
      « Last Edit: Feb 08, 2021 05:17:51 pm by Brian78 »
      +24
      Reply
      billythered
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #1: Feb 08, 2021 12:45:40 pm
      The idea of t his topic is not to try and tell people they should not be displeased with recent results of performances, nor is it to suggest that you are not a worthy fan if you show your displeasure. Its simply to step back and assess why we might be in the bad run we are in.

      Firstly, let’s get covid out of the way. We have no idea what effect its having on the players and management team. Yes, all teams are in the same boat. But maybe the current climate is influencing the lad’s drive. Its easier to motivate yourself from the challenger position in normal circumstances never mind the current climate. We don’t know if these players and management are seeing less of their families due to the circumstances we don’t know if these players have been affected by being told family or friends are sick. We know some have had it themselves, we don’t know if that has affected performance. For example, have the south American lads seen family other then video calls for months now?

      On the pitch as is well highlighted, the injuries. Yes, every team has injuries. But how many teams have 15 central defensive partnerships due to injury in 23 games? Not only has it led to midfielders playing in defence, thus taking world class midfielders out of the midfield sector, but the inconsistency of team selection is not a good thing. A team cannot have a flow with constant change in the players operating the system.  You get a player back you lose another. You keep your central defenders together for a 2nd game then you lose your keeper, its been crazy.

      In reality would any team fair better than we have? Would city win 10 in a row with Gundogan having to partner Rodrigo in the heart of the defence, and then lose Ederson on top of that or united, would they be in 2nd with Pogba playing centre half alongside Fred?

      In sport, and I’m sure most have played some level of some sport, when you place so much energy into reaching a target and you finally reach it the following season is much harder. Its hard to get yourself up to the levels because sometimes you just can’t lift yourself when you need to because its just not there to give. For everyone playing you as the champion you are now the big target. Now I’m not saying that’s alright, that being champion allows you to ease off, it doesn’t but when you have other quality teams hunting you down and everyone else going beyond their best to stop you and you have nothing left to give its hard. The style this team played with for several seasons aligned with the injury run this season will drain the energy.

      In the 2018 season this team lost 5 league games and went to the champions league final. A season later they lost 1 game, winning 30, to fall just short of a title in 2nd place, but went a step further in Europe winning the champions league. A season later, they win the league title winning 32 games. Losing 3 2 of which after they are crowned champions. That’s some run.

      Add in then that Trent, VVD, Gomez, Robbo, Matip, Fab,Gini, Hendo, Millie, Mo, Sadio, Bobby put serious mileage on the clock in those seasons, with Shaq, Ox, Origi playing a fair share, and they are all still here. Yes, we added some in the intervening summers, but we have so rarely seen Keita and then this year we lose Thiago Tsimikas and Jota for long spells, so your back asking the same guys to go again, no rest.

      I noticed some mentioning that Jürgen doesn’t look himself lately! Going back to what I said earlier, we don’t know his circumstance. Is covid hitting him? Is he not seeing his family? He has given himself for 5 years to get us over the line that we waited to cross for 30 years, is it possible that he’s drained? Of course, it is. What does he feed off at matches? The crowd, the crowd that he cant have right when he needs them the most. He’s human, don’t think for a second that he doesn’t go home and curse these injuries or these results or other things that we don’t even know about.

      So perspective, yes its been a disaster of a league season so far. Yes, we have given up the title. Yes, were disappointed. But let’s not forget what these guys have given us over the last 3 or 4 years. Every team has blips. We are in ours now. This blip could still see us finish 2nd or 3rd and still be crowned champions of Europe again! Things seem bad but step back and look from a different angle. Yesterday losing 4 1 sounds terrible, but 4 goalkeeping errors are made, first one he palms straight out, 2nd and 3rd don’t need more highlighting and the 4the he drops to his knees and the ball goes in over his head, he stands up its not a goal. Take out hi 4 mistakes it’s a different outcome against the team lauded as world class and heirs to our crown. These lads will come good again and they have earned and deserve our total support to the end.         







      Post of the season for me,

      Everything’s  right there in a nutshell, read it, then read it again, absorb what is being said, take into account all those factors Brain mentions that perhaps in our own selflessness has ignored,  our season for me collapsed when first Virgil was assaulted, we then lost Thiago same match, then we lost Joe, and subsequently Fabinho and of course fragile Joel, the rest is history,

      The fatigue, the playing out of positions, having no 12th man all are contributory factors in our downfall,

      Our system of playing and how we play it has been altered, taking important elements of said system to replace other elements due to injury was never going to work, the whole system is different so therefore nothing is aligned as it was last season, like Brian said, take a step back a take everything into perspective.

      Some might see us in a different light !



                                                                                   Y  N  W  A

      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #2: Feb 08, 2021 12:52:04 pm





      Post of the season for me,

      Everything’s  right there in a nutshell, read it, then read it again, absorb what is being said, take into account all those factors Brain mentions that perhaps in our own selflessness has ignored,  our season for me collapsed when first Virgil was assaulted, we then lost Thiago same match, then we lost Joe, and subsequently Fabinho and of course fragile Joel, the rest is history,

      The fatigue, the playing out of positions, having no 12th man all are contributory factors in our downfall,

      Our system of playing and how we play it has been altered, taking important elements of said system to replace other elements due to injury was never going to work, the whole system is different so therefore nothing is aligned as it was last season, like Brian said, take a step back a take everything into perspective.

      Some might see us in a different light !



                                                                                   Y  N  W  A



      We lost 7-2 against Villa with Virgil and Joe in the team, so its not all down to them being injured. I think the team is mentally shot and a title defense was just not possible.
      On the flip side I think our loss yesterday might help to reset expectations, our aim now is not to retain the title, it is to secure Top 4 and have a good run in the CL.

      I still think we should be able to secure Top 4, especially if we can get the new CB's integrated quickly. I also think we could have a good go at the CL.
      billythered
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #3: Feb 08, 2021 01:01:03 pm
      We lost 7-2 against Villa with Virgil and Joe in the team, so its not all down to them being injured. I think the team is mentally shot and a title defense was just not possible.
      On the flip side I think our loss yesterday might help to reset expectations, our aim now is not to retain the title, it is to secure Top 4 and have a good run in the CL.

      I still think we should be able to secure Top 4, especially if we can get the new CB's integrated quickly. I also think we could have a good go at the CL.




      That Villa mauling was a freak result , same as Watford 3-0 last season, where on the day we had nothing go our way and the rub of the green favoured both the home sides, do you think apart from the Villa debacle, had we been at our best we’d have the season we are now, somehow I doubt it, but like you say we still have the CL and should still have enough for top 4.
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #4: Feb 08, 2021 01:14:16 pm



      That Villa mauling was a freak result , same as Watford 3-0 last season, where on the day we had nothing go our way and the rub of the green favoured both the home sides, do you think apart from the Villa debacle, had we been at our best we’d have the season we are now, somehow I doubt it, but like you say we still have the CL and should still have enough for top 4.


      I actually think we started our decline last season before the Watford game, there were a lot of iffy results where we narrowly won. In my opinion we were a much better side the previous season where we ran City so close and won the CL. I know that sounds idiotic considering our winning margin etc but team performances have gradually been getting worse for a while and i think this is linked with Klopp being slightly lost tactically, for example this high line and slow build up is something that became more prominent last season and worked quite well, although it was f**king boring to watch but this season we don't have the rock solid defence with 2 DM's in front of it so whereas we were winning games 1-0 last term we are now losing them 1-0 as we are conceding more chances and at the same time not retaining the ball as well and/or creating chances through brute force attacks.

      As I have said previously Klopp needs to go back to basics, we have the players capable of playing much quicker and more dynamic football as we saw in the first few seasons with Jürgen. Sure we might lose a few high scoring matches that way but I guarantee we'll win a lot more than we lose. Do that and we easily secure Top4 and I fancy us to have a decent stab at the CL as well.

      Continue with what we are doing and we might squeak Top 4 but forget about CL.
      FrenchRed
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #5: Feb 08, 2021 01:37:54 pm



      That Villa mauling was a freak result , same as Watford 3-0 last season, where on the day we had nothing go our way and the rub of the green favoured both the home sides, do you think apart from the Villa debacle, had we been at our best we’d have the season we are now, somehow I doubt it, but like you say we still have the CL and should still have enough for top 4.
      I've just seen a stat that we've had at least 6 players injured in 66% of our games this season, and it's been a pretty brutal season with so many games crammed in.

      A lot of teams can't cope losing one player (Leicester with Vardy, Villa with Greelish, and Spurs looked awful without Kane); never mind losing the entire defence.  January's never a good time to buy a quality player, and we've had little choice but to go with what we've got (although I'd like to have seen Phillips getting more game time).

      Who knows how badly the players are affected by Covid?  I'm pretty sure the Europeans, like VVD and Gini, haven't seen their families for months, never mind the South Americans.  In the end they're human beings like the rest of us and, right now while we're in a bit of a slump, they must need the support of their family and friends more than usual. 

      I'm confident the players can rediscover their form in the PL, get through against Leipzig, and use that as a springboard for more difficult games to come in the last 8 of the CL.  It's clear though that we need a bit of a clear out in the summer, and new blood needs to come in to freshen things up and strenghten the squad.

      Crisis?  We're 4th and in the last 16 of the CL, so it's hardly time to try and wrench Big Sam away from West Brom is it? 
       
      billythered
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #6: Feb 08, 2021 02:16:38 pm
      I actually think we started our decline last season before the Watford game, there were a lot of iffy results where we narrowly won. In my opinion we were a much better side the previous season where we ran City so close and won the CL. I know that sounds idiotic considering our winning margin etc but team performances have gradually been getting worse for a while and i think this is linked with Klopp being slightly lost tactically, for example this high line and slow build up is something that became more prominent last season and worked quite well, although it was f**king boring to watch but this season we don't have the rock solid defence with 2 DM's in front of it so whereas we were winning games 1-0 last term we are now losing them 1-0 as we are conceding more chances and at the same time not retaining the ball as well and/or creating chances through brute force attacks.

      As I have said previously Klopp needs to go back to basics, we have the players capable of playing much quicker and more dynamic football as we saw in the first few seasons with Jürgen. Sure we might lose a few high scoring matches that way but I guarantee we'll win a lot more than we lose. Do that and we easily secure Top4 and I fancy us to have a decent stab at the CL as well.

      Continue with what we are doing and we might squeak Top 4 but forget about CL.




      I don’t get your beef with Jürgen being tactically inept, three European finals and a Title win inside five years attests to that, maybe sometimes his tactics may not have come off in certain games versus a particular opponent and gotten the better of because of it but to say he’s lost it on occasion is way off the mark, as for his heavy metal football, that particular tactic worked for a while but teams found us out and set up against us as a counter measure, I am not against going back to that style on occasion but to sustain that for a whole campaign wouldn’t work,

       it’s a fact that sometimes we don’t seem to have a plan b or c, because of the system we play, and this is part of why we are struggling at the moment, the system we use has elements within it that is pivotal to its success hence losing Virgil, Joe , Joel & subsequently two midfielders in this campaign, it’s no coincidence that this season in particular it’s been a massively and particularly damaging outcome to losing those elements, in other words the system is now flawed, and we do not have a alternative system nor the elements to make it work.



                                                                                  Y  N  W  A




      scotscouse
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #7: Feb 08, 2021 03:45:38 pm
      Time for a winter break i think YNWA
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #8: Feb 08, 2021 04:19:28 pm
      I've just seen a stat that we've had at least 6 players injured in 66% of our games this season, and it's been a pretty brutal season with so many games crammed in.

      A lot of teams can't cope losing one player (Leicester with Vardy, Villa with Greelish, and Spurs looked awful without Kane); never mind losing the entire defence.  January's never a good time to buy a quality player, and we've had little choice but to go with what we've got (although I'd like to have seen Phillips getting more game time).

      Who knows how badly the players are affected by Covid?  I'm pretty sure the Europeans, like VVD and Gini, haven't seen their families for months, never mind the South Americans.  In the end they're human beings like the rest of us and, right now while we're in a bit of a slump, they must need the support of their family and friends more than usual. 

      I'm confident the players can rediscover their form in the PL, get through against Leipzig, and use that as a springboard for more difficult games to come in the last 8 of the CL.  It's clear though that we need a bit of a clear out in the summer, and new blood needs to come in to freshen things up and strenghten the squad.

      Crisis?  We're 4th and in the last 16 of the CL, so it's hardly time to try and wrench Big Sam away from West Brom is it? 
       

      OK we have been hit by injuries but yesterday we had more or less a settled team apart from CB's, ie. it was our usual front three who created f**k all again, it was a pretty strong midfield with Curits, Thiago and Gini and we had our regular Full Backs and GK. Its not exactly a B team we are putting out.
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #9: Feb 08, 2021 04:23:13 pm



      I don’t get your beef with Jürgen being tactically inept, three European finals and a Title win inside five years attests to that, maybe sometimes his tactics may not have come off in certain games versus a particular opponent and gotten the better of because of it but to say he’s lost it on occasion is way off the mark, as for his heavy metal football, that particular tactic worked for a while but teams found us out and set up against us as a counter measure, I am not against going back to that style on occasion but to sustain that for a whole campaign wouldn’t work,

       it’s a fact that sometimes we don’t seem to have a plan b or c, because of the system we play, and this is part of why we are struggling at the moment, the system we use has elements within it that is pivotal to its success hence losing Virgil, Joe , Joel & subsequently two midfielders in this campaign, it’s no coincidence that this season in particular it’s been a massively and particularly damaging outcome to losing those elements, in other words the system is now flawed, and we do not have a alternative system nor the elements to make it work.



                                                                                  Y  N  W  A






      Obviously there has to be some nuance tactically but Klopp is very very rigid tactically, he seemed almost stunned yesterday when he mentioned City changing tactics/formation at half time, as if how on earth did they do that!! ;-).

      Tell me one thing, are you happy with our style of play over the last month?  If not then ask yourself this, why hasn't Jürgen changed anything, tried something new, why is he playing the same tired players in the same tired formation and tactics, it is quite literally insane for him to expect a different result when he doesn't change anything.
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #10: Feb 08, 2021 04:24:25 pm
      Time for a winter break i think YNWA

      Well we get a few extra days now courtesy of not being in the FA Cup, so lets please put that to some use, mind you we had a good chunk of days off in January as well, compared to other teams, and that didn't help much.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #11: Feb 08, 2021 04:29:32 pm
      Great thread where hopefully constructive conversation be had.

      Can the subject to changed to "Perspective (adults only)"? Don't need the usual crew to come here who only have 1 thing to say every time.

      The impact has been felt across many facets of the team, from the financial impact of having no fans in the building for a year (next month), to the cramped schedule, to the injuries and the changes it forces on the team, to individual errors, to scorers suddenly forgetting how to score. It has all snowballed and presented itself in the same season.
      bmck
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #12: Feb 08, 2021 05:25:14 pm
      The idea of t his topic is not to try and tell people they should not be displeased with recent results of performances, nor is it to suggest that you are not a worthy fan if you show your displeasure. Its simply to step back and assess why we might be in the bad run we are in.

      Firstly, let’s get covid out of the way. We have no idea what effect its having on the players and management team. Yes, all teams are in the same boat. But maybe the current climate is influencing the lad’s drive. Its easier to motivate yourself from the challenger position in normal circumstances never mind the current climate. We don’t know if these players and management are seeing less of their families due to the circumstances we don’t know if these players have been affected by being told family or friends are sick. We know some have had it themselves, we don’t know if that has affected performance. For example, have the south American lads seen family other then video calls for months now?

      On the pitch as is well highlighted, the injuries. Yes, every team has injuries. But how many teams have 15 central defensive partnerships due to injury in 23 games? Not only has it led to midfielders playing in defence, thus taking world class midfielders out of the midfield sector, but the inconsistency of team selection is not a good thing. A team cannot have a flow with constant change in the players operating the system.  You get a player back you lose another. You keep your central defenders together for a 2nd game then you lose your keeper, its been crazy.

      In reality would any team fair better than we have? Would city win 10 in a row with Gundogan having to partner Rodrigo in the heart of the defence, and then lose Ederson on top of that or united, would they be in 2nd with Pogba playing centre half alongside Fred?

      In sport, and I’m sure most have played some level of some sport, when you place so much energy into reaching a target and you finally reach it the following season is much harder. Its hard to get yourself up to the levels because sometimes you just can’t lift yourself when you need to because its just not there to give. For everyone playing you as the champion you are now the big target. Now I’m not saying that’s alright, that being champion allows you to ease off, it doesn’t but when you have other quality teams hunting you down and everyone else going beyond their best to stop you and you have nothing left to give its hard. The style this team played with for several seasons aligned with the injury run this season will drain the energy.

      In the 2018 season this team lost 5 league games and went to the champions league final. A season later they lost 1 game, winning 30, to fall just short of a title in 2nd place, but went a step further in Europe winning the champions league. A season later, they win the league title winning 32 games. Losing 3 2 of which after they are crowned champions. That’s some run.

      Add in then that Trent, VVD, Gomez, Robbo, Matip, Fab,Gini, Hendo, Millie, Mo, Sadio, Bobby put serious mileage on the clock in those seasons, with Shaq, Ox, Origi playing a fair share, and they are all still here. Yes, we added some in the intervening summers, but we have so rarely seen Keita and then this year we lose Thiago Tsimikas and Jota for long spells, so your back asking the same guys to go again, no rest.

      I noticed some mentioning that Jürgen doesn’t look himself lately! Going back to what I said earlier, we don’t know his circumstance. Is covid hitting him? Is he not seeing his family? He has given himself for 5 years to get us over the line that we waited to cross for 30 years, is it possible that he’s drained? Of course, it is. What does he feed off at matches? The crowd, the crowd that he cant have right when he needs them the most. He’s human, don’t think for a second that he doesn’t go home and curse these injuries or these results or other things that we don’t even know about.

      So perspective, yes its been a disaster of a league season so far. Yes, we have given up the title. Yes, were disappointed. But let’s not forget what these guys have given us over the last 3 or 4 years. Every team has blips. We are in ours now. This blip could still see us finish 2nd or 3rd and still be crowned champions of Europe again! Things seem bad but step back and look from a different angle. Yesterday losing 4 1 sounds terrible, but 4 goalkeeping errors are made, first one he palms straight out, 2nd and 3rd don’t need more highlighting and the 4the he drops to his knees and the ball goes in over his head, he stands up its not a goal. Take out hi 4 mistakes it’s a different outcome against the team lauded as world class and heirs to our crown. These lads will come good again and they have earned and deserve our total support to the end.         


      Good post, and topic, and agree with most of the OP.
      Would maybe disagree about yesterday, mistakes aside, thought Citeh were the better side on the day and deserved the 3 points.
      And loosing at home to Burnley then Brighton while drawing/not scoring against a few other mediocre sides before that - even taking all the injuries, covid etc into account, its still a bit of a head scratch not to be able to break out of that run before now/try something more different in those matches - but suppose it comes back to some of the points already mentioned :)
      MarkMitt
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #13: Feb 08, 2021 05:53:37 pm
      It’s a sh*t time, but we’re all in sh*t times for different reasons. We’ve had a couple of amazing seasons and for many different  reasons, we’re now having a poor season. Ups and downs are a part of everyone’s lives, regardless of situation. The thing that has pleased me most? Klopps words to Allison after his ‘mare of a game yesterday. Ali has saved our skins countless times and was due a blooper. Once again, JK proves his worth as the ONLY manager we need...
      rossyred
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #14: Feb 08, 2021 06:39:28 pm
      Was always going to be a big ask this year trying to retain a title , lack of fans and injuries also as well as and I don't care what anyone says the intensity after finally hitting the holy grail . Still a long way to go this season and with more guys returning next week and new players about to be blooded think we will be fine
      MarkMitt
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #15: Feb 08, 2021 06:57:04 pm
      Was always going to be a big ask this year trying to retain a title , lack of fans and injuries also as well as and I don't care what anyone says the intensity after finally hitting the holy grail . Still a long way to go this season and with more guys returning next week and new players about to be blooded think we will be fine

      The league is gone. Finish as high as possible and concentrate all resources on winning the CL....

      Davbro
      • Forum Dean Saunders
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      • 71 posts | 11 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #16: Feb 08, 2021 07:01:08 pm
      Great post and worded carefully and well. I believe this season is FUBAR because of all of the reasons stated. Injuries to key players, Players playing out of position, Mental and physical fatigue, Covid, no fans, and Jürgen and everyone else behind closed doors with problems that we will never see. I'm still relatively new to this forum and I think its brilliant because we all have some very varying opinions about everything,  some positive, some negative and some inbetween. But some are becoming a bit devisive and slandering each other which I dont find very YNWA. I still believe we are fighting. I still believe we are hungry, but I also think we are underperforming and that will change soon. So keep supporting the team, keep supporting Jürgen and hopefully we can get top 4, win champs league or go far, get a nice long summer break and pre season and I'm sure we shall see this amazing team back to their best. Keep the opinions flooding in to as so many good points are raised and it's great education. But remember we all want the same for this great club. Dont lose site of that.
      rossyred
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 4,145 posts | 662 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #17: Feb 08, 2021 07:06:07 pm
      The league is gone. Finish as high as possible and concentrate all resources on winning the CL....

      Never said it hadn't had I ?
      6stringer
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 1,999 posts | 491 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #18: Feb 08, 2021 08:58:48 pm
      Breath of fresh air this thread... nice one Brian.
      Some very intelligent and honest posting too.

      My only input to an otherwise jam packed thread would be to air my opinion on our mid season move from Melwood to Kirby.
      Can anyone think of another club who moved mid season? I can’t.
      I am absolutely positive that this move has had a psychological affect mentally on the squad as a whole.
      Has anyone seen the auctioneers who have put everything from Melwood in a massive lot to be auctioned off?
      I think it’s a disgrace... Framed pictures of Shanks and Sir Bob that hung on the wall in the managers office along with door signs and canteen chairs.. WTF !!.. all the boot room stuff too.
      Where’s all that money going to go I wonder? https://www.grahambuddauctions.co.uk/Liverpool-FC-Melwood-Auction/2021-03-02?gridtype=gridview
      That’s the problem these days... It’s all about the money..

      Jürgen needs to get ruthless.. we all love him to bits but I just think that there are players in that squad that are letting him/us down big time..
      The sooner he plays the two new CB’s and puts Fabs and Hendo back in midfield the better.


      Rush Goalie
      • Forum Alan Hansen
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      • 657 posts | 118 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #19: Feb 08, 2021 09:29:22 pm
      I think the perfect or imperfect storm has happened :

      . 3 years of being full on
      . 3 CBs injured
      . Thiago injured
      . Jota injured just as he was becoming our main threat in attack
      . Midfield decimated having to cover defence
      . No Anfield roar
      . Our famed front three are all getting older don't forget
      . The move from Melwood

      I think we've been shafted with a few VAR decisions like Mane being rugby tackled at Newcastle but I'm not hiding behind VAR, the table doesn't lie we've not been good enough. I'm not gonna complain and I'm not gonna even speak about what Klopp has achieved it speaks for itself.
      We are going through a bad patch but we'll come through, I'm not made up at the moment but after waiting 30 yrs the relief at winning the PL, it became a depressing obsession for me, that week after Gerrards slip I felt like someone had died.. Going so close and then 12 months later losing 6-1 at Stoke we seemed further than ever away from the dream.
      Klopp came and immediately changed that every fan could see we were improving year on year. Jürgen lifted that gloom from my life, exaggeration? Honestly for me? no it got me down our pursuit of the Holy grail.
      As for this season we won't be PL champs again but we've known that for a few weeks I reckon, so let's focus on the four we don't become a bad team overnight, we've got players to come back and the sicko in me is actually enjoying the adversity thinking you know what f**k em we'll be back and call me a dreamer but imagine when we lift big ears number seven in May, the cries of anguish and jealousy throughout the country.. I'm having it it's happening..
      UncleBob
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
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      • 393 posts | 68 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #20: Feb 08, 2021 09:34:09 pm
      Good post.
      I think perspective is needed.

      Our record since we became champions is won 15 drew 8 lost 7.
      That’s a massive drop in form.
      Perhaps it is the empty stadiums.
      Or playing 2/3 games a week which favours the bigger squad clubs. And our unbelievable injury list. Or it could be that the efforts over the past 2 seasons have mentally drained us.
      It could even be teams play differently against us now as champions. Maybe it’s also a few mistakes from klopp in that time.

      But the players need to realise that this season is not yet over. Top 4 is a must. And we still have a chance at claiming number 7.

      My perspective is that as fans of this club we know and sing about walking through the storm. Anfield is a lonely place right now so who knows how that’s affecting the players. Maybe we should all go for an ‘excericse’ next home game and sing and shout and wave flags as the champions drive past (socially distancing of course!). Remind them we are still here.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      • 1,917 posts | 840 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #21: Feb 08, 2021 09:47:30 pm
      AussieRed
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 17,470 posts | 4573 
      • You'll Never Walk Alone
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #22: Feb 08, 2021 11:03:56 pm
      Great post mate.

      Up until 2 months ago we had:

      The Best Manager in the World
      The Best Keeper in the World
      The Best RB and LB in the World
      The Best CB in the World and
      The Best front 3 in the World
      And we also went out and bought one of the Best Midfielders in the World.

      Now for me, apart from only Virgil, the rest are still there. How the f**k do we turn to sh*t in the space of a couple of months?

      We still have them all except Virgil and some support staff but the nucleus is still there in abundance. Time they started remembering who they are and that this really does Mean More!
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 911 posts | 282 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #23: Feb 08, 2021 11:55:07 pm
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 911 posts | 282 
      Re: Perspective
      Reply #24: Feb 08, 2021 11:59:22 pm
      The idea of this topic is not to try and tell people they should not be displeased with recent results of performances, nor is it to suggest that you are not a worthy fan if you show your displeasure. Its simply to step back and assess why we might be in the bad run we are in.

      Firstly, let’s get covid out of the way. We have no idea what effect its having on the players and management team. Yes, all teams are in the same boat. But maybe the current climate is influencing the lad’s drive. Its easier to motivate yourself from the challenger position in normal circumstances never mind the current climate. We don’t know if these players and management are seeing less of their families due to the circumstances we don’t know if these players have been affected by being told family or friends are sick. We know some have had it themselves, we don’t know if that has affected performance. For example, have the south American lads seen family other then video calls for months now?

      On the pitch as is well highlighted, the injuries. Yes, every team has injuries. But how many teams have 15 central defensive partnerships due to injury in 23 games? Not only has it led to midfielders playing in defence, thus taking world class midfielders out of the midfield sector, but the inconsistency of team selection is not a good thing. A team cannot have a flow with constant change in the players operating the system.  You get a player back you lose another. You keep your central defenders together for a 2nd game then you lose your keeper, its been crazy.

      In reality would any team fair better than we have? Would city win 10 in a row with Gundogan having to partner Rodrigo in the heart of the defence, and then lose Ederson on top of that or united, would they be in 2nd with Pogba playing centre half alongside Fred?

      In sport, and I’m sure most have played some level of some sport, when you place so much energy into reaching a target and you finally reach it the following season is much harder. Its hard to get yourself up to the levels because sometimes you just can’t lift yourself when you need to because its just not there to give. For everyone playing you as the champion you are now the big target. Now I’m not saying that’s alright, that being champion allows you to ease off, it doesn’t but when you have other quality teams hunting you down and everyone else going beyond their best to stop you and you have nothing left to give its hard. The style this team played with for several seasons aligned with the injury run this season will drain the energy.

      In the 2018 season this team lost 5 league games and went to the champions league final. A season later they lost 1 game, winning 30, to fall just short of a title in 2nd place, but went a step further in Europe winning the champions league. A season later, they win the league title winning 32 games. Losing 3 2 of which after they are crowned champions. That’s some run.

      Add in then that Trent, VVD, Gomez, Robbo, Matip, Fab,Gini, Hendo, Millie, Mo, Sadio, Bobby put serious mileage on the clock in those seasons, with Shaq, Ox, Origi playing a fair share, and they are all still here. Yes, we added some in the intervening summers, but we have so rarely seen Keita and then this year we lose Thiago Tsimikas and Jota for long spells, so your back asking the same guys to go again, no rest.

      I noticed some mentioning that Jürgen doesn’t look himself lately! Going back to what I said earlier, we don’t know his circumstance. Is covid hitting him? Is he not seeing his family? He has given himself for 5 years to get us over the line that we waited to cross for 30 years, is it possible that he’s drained? Of course, it is. What does he feed off at matches? The crowd, the crowd that he cant have right when he needs them the most. He’s human, don’t think for a second that he doesn’t go home and curse these injuries or these results or other things that we don’t even know about.

      So perspective, yes its been a disaster of a league season so far. Yes, we have given up the title. Yes, were disappointed. But let’s not forget what these guys have given us over the last 3 or 4 years. Every team has blips. We are in ours now. This blip could still see us finish 2nd or 3rd and still be crowned champions of Europe again! Things seem bad but step back and look from a different angle. Yesterday losing 4 1 sounds terrible, but 4 goalkeeping errors are made, first one he palms straight out, 2nd and 3rd don’t need more highlighting and the 4the he drops to his knees and the ball goes in over his head, he stands up its not a goal. Take out hi 4 mistakes it’s a different outcome against the team lauded as world class and heirs to our crown. These lads will come good again and they have earned and deserve our total support to the end.       

      Good lad.

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