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      Perspective

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      fields of anny rd
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #25: Feb 09, 2021 05:19:45 am
      Get in that top 4 and try again next season. Yes we can have a pop at the CL but theres a few sides in there that can really hurt our make shift side this season too.

      Like Jürgen says we have a full training week ahead and im not sure when our next one will be so its important we freshen the legs and we take ina weeks worth of work on the training ground. Leicester have a game v Brighton in midweek so its important we try and take advantage of that.

      The next 2 games will be massive for us now.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #26: Feb 09, 2021 07:33:03 am
      Great post mate.

      Up until 2 months ago we had:

      The Best Manager in the World
      The Best Keeper in the World
      The Best RB and LB in the World
      The Best CB in the World and
      The Best front 3 in the World
      And we also went out and bought one of the Best Midfielders in the World.

      Now for me, apart from only Virgil, the rest are still there. How the f**k do we turn to sh*t in the space of a couple of months?

      We still have them all except Virgil and some support staff but the nucleus is still there in abundance. Time they started remembering who they are and that this really does Mean More!

      You only have to go back about 2 weeks to Spurs and West Ham to see that capability is still there. Sustaining the level under duress seems to be the challenge just now.

      Overreacting doesn't help. These are human beings, not cogs in a machine or programs in a computer. They will come good, with Jürgen leading the way.
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #27: Feb 09, 2021 11:11:51 am
      Great post mate.

      Up until 2 months ago we had:

      The Best Manager in the World
      The Best Keeper in the World
      The Best RB and LB in the World
      The Best CB in the World and
      The Best front 3 in the World
      And we also went out and bought one of the Best Midfielders in the World.

      Now for me, apart from only Virgil, the rest are still there. How the f**k do we turn to sh*t in the space of a couple of months?

      We still have them all except Virgil and some support staff but the nucleus is still there in abundance. Time they started remembering who they are and that this really does Mean More!


      Sorry but from that list I only think we have the best manager, GK and CB. There is no way that you'll convince me we have the best full backs this season and the front three have been fairly average as well.

      We need to shift a lot of deadwood from the squad this summer, but will there be any budget, I doubt it.

      I predict a return to Top4 status for the foreseeable future until the other teams have a dip as City Utd and Chelsea will all be better next season.

      Sorry to be negative but it's just how I see it.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #28: Feb 09, 2021 11:19:22 am
      Sorry but from that list I only think we have the best manager, GK and CB. There is no way that you'll convince me we have the best full backs this season and the front three have been fairly average as well.

      We need to shift a lot of deadwood from the squad this summer, but will there be any budget, I doubt it.

      I predict a return to Top4 status for the foreseeable future until the other teams have a dip as City Utd and Chelsea will all be better next season.

      Sorry to be negative but it's just how I see it.

      Everyone knows we have the best full backs in the league, just because the team is in a rut at the moment with injuries doesn't change this.

      City will be City under Pep and will always challenge, but there is absolutely no way to predict what Untited and Chelsea will be like next season.

      I can however predict that we will be WAY better next season based on the talent of our manager and complete squad.
      « Last Edit: Feb 09, 2021 11:28:22 am by bazspeedman »
      Swab
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #29: Feb 09, 2021 11:26:32 am
      The issue on here is people seeking simplistic answers to complex questions, and then stirring the pot.

      No one is pleased, no one is happy, and throwing a tantrum on a forum doesn't do anything except stir the pot, which for some is the whole point.

      We're still a great team, Klopp is still a great manager.
      We're having a rough spell because of a whole host of factors, all combining at once to create a shitstorm.

      Get a f**king grip.
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #30: Feb 09, 2021 11:44:33 am
      Everyone knows we have the best full backs in the league, just because the team is in a rut at the moment with injuries doesn't change this.

      City will be City under Pep and will always challenge, but there is absolutely no way to predict what Untited and Chelsea will be like next season.

      I can however predict that we will be WAY better next season based on the talent of our manager and complete squad.

      Can you explain in what way Trent is better than Cancello or Wan-Bisaka or how Robertson is better than Shaw?  BTW I do realise that our fullbacks are in a bit of a dip currently but even in top form they do get overhyped something fierce on here, they are good but not that bloody good.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #31: Feb 09, 2021 11:47:36 am
      Can you explain in what way Trent is better than Cancello or Wan-Bisaka or how Robertson is better than Shaw?  BTW I do realise that our fullbacks are in a bit of a dip currently but even in top form they do get overhyped something fierce on here, they are good but not that bloody good.


      Are you taking the piss ?
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #32: Feb 09, 2021 11:59:33 am

      No, can you answer the question please? You are the one claiming they are the best in the world, so please show me the stats to back up your claims of them being the best in their positions? 
      In my opinion they are both good FB's but they could still be a hell of a lot better, Robertson has a TERRIBLE shot on him and can be a bit to predictable with his crossing. Trent is a superb crosser of the ball, there he probably is the best in the world, BUT he is a bang average defender and because of that he can not be considered the best overall FB.
      Ulsters_No1
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #33: Feb 09, 2021 12:15:05 pm
      Great post & some interesting reading. I think the short break in between games has really been a massive factor for us this season (along with many others people have mentioned). That intensity that we have been so accustomed to over the past 3 years has come due to great training sessions and adequate rest. That's all up in smoke this year and we find ourselves stuck in a rut of inconsistency.
      Tadders
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #34: Feb 09, 2021 12:28:19 pm
      The idea of this topic is not to try and tell people they should not be displeased with recent results of performances, nor is it to suggest that you are not a worthy fan if you show your displeasure. Its simply to step back and assess why we might be in the bad run we are in.

      Firstly, let’s get covid out of the way. We have no idea what effect its having on the players and management team. Yes, all teams are in the same boat. But maybe the current climate is influencing the lad’s drive. Its easier to motivate yourself from the challenger position in normal circumstances never mind the current climate. We don’t know if these players and management are seeing less of their families due to the circumstances we don’t know if these players have been affected by being told family or friends are sick. We know some have had it themselves, we don’t know if that has affected performance. For example, have the south American lads seen family other then video calls for months now?

      On the pitch as is well highlighted, the injuries. Yes, every team has injuries. But how many teams have 15 central defensive partnerships due to injury in 23 games? Not only has it led to midfielders playing in defence, thus taking world class midfielders out of the midfield sector, but the inconsistency of team selection is not a good thing. A team cannot have a flow with constant change in the players operating the system.  You get a player back you lose another. You keep your central defenders together for a 2nd game then you lose your keeper, its been crazy.

      In reality would any team fair better than we have? Would city win 10 in a row with Gundogan having to partner Rodrigo in the heart of the defence, and then lose Ederson on top of that or united, would they be in 2nd with Pogba playing centre half alongside Fred?

      In sport, and I’m sure most have played some level of some sport, when you place so much energy into reaching a target and you finally reach it the following season is much harder. Its hard to get yourself up to the levels because sometimes you just can’t lift yourself when you need to because its just not there to give. For everyone playing you as the champion you are now the big target. Now I’m not saying that’s alright, that being champion allows you to ease off, it doesn’t but when you have other quality teams hunting you down and everyone else going beyond their best to stop you and you have nothing left to give its hard. The style this team played with for several seasons aligned with the injury run this season will drain the energy.

      In the 2018 season this team lost 5 league games and went to the champions league final. A season later they lost 1 game, winning 30, to fall just short of a title in 2nd place, but went a step further in Europe winning the champions league. A season later, they win the league title winning 32 games. Losing 3 2 of which after they are crowned champions. That’s some run.

      Add in then that Trent, VVD, Gomez, Robbo, Matip, Fab,Gini, Hendo, Millie, Mo, Sadio, Bobby put serious mileage on the clock in those seasons, with Shaq, Ox, Origi playing a fair share, and they are all still here. Yes, we added some in the intervening summers, but we have so rarely seen Keita and then this year we lose Thiago Tsimikas and Jota for long spells, so your back asking the same guys to go again, no rest.

      I noticed some mentioning that Jürgen doesn’t look himself lately! Going back to what I said earlier, we don’t know his circumstance. Is covid hitting him? Is he not seeing his family? He has given himself for 5 years to get us over the line that we waited to cross for 30 years, is it possible that he’s drained? Of course, it is. What does he feed off at matches? The crowd, the crowd that he cant have right when he needs them the most. He’s human, don’t think for a second that he doesn’t go home and curse these injuries or these results or other things that we don’t even know about.

      So perspective, yes its been a disaster of a league season so far. Yes, we have given up the title. Yes, were disappointed. But let’s not forget what these guys have given us over the last 3 or 4 years. Every team has blips. We are in ours now. This blip could still see us finish 2nd or 3rd and still be crowned champions of Europe again! Things seem bad but step back and look from a different angle. Yesterday losing 4 1 sounds terrible, but 4 goalkeeping errors are made, first one he palms straight out, 2nd and 3rd don’t need more highlighting and the 4the he drops to his knees and the ball goes in over his head, he stands up its not a goal. Take out hi 4 mistakes it’s a different outcome against the team lauded as world class and heirs to our crown. These lads will come good again and they have earned and deserve our total support to the end.         


      brilliant. Need to get this in the Echo to calm a few people down. If this teams owes us anything it is 100% and they are giving that, it is rightly summed up here.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #35: Feb 09, 2021 03:25:34 pm
      Great post & some interesting reading. I think the short break in between games has really been a massive factor for us this season (along with many others people have mentioned). That intensity that we have been so accustomed to over the past 3 years has come due to great training sessions and adequate rest. That's all up in smoke this year and we find ourselves stuck in a rut of inconsistency.

      Welcome fella!
      Shabs
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #36: Feb 09, 2021 03:35:11 pm
      Great post & some interesting reading. I think the short break in between games has really been a massive factor for us this season (along with many others people have mentioned). That intensity that we have been so accustomed to over the past 3 years has come due to great training sessions and adequate rest. That's all up in smoke this year and we find ourselves stuck in a rut of inconsistency.

      Nice post.. Klopp had a cheeky grin on his face after the post match City game when he mentioned he will have week with his players...

      He knows we haven’t turned sh*te overnight, if he can imbed Davies & Kabak into our system freeing Fabinho & Hendo then we become the team we were last season..

      I think Klopp has done exceptionally well to have us where we are...

      String finish in the league & CL final is on the horizon...
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #37: Feb 09, 2021 09:44:57 pm
      Nice post.. Klopp had a cheeky grin on his face after the post match City game when he mentioned he will have week with his players...

      He knows we haven’t turned sh*te overnight, if he can imbed Davies & Kabak into our system freeing Fabinho & Hendo then we become the team we were last season..

      I think Klopp has done exceptionally well to have us where we are...

      String finish in the league & CL final is on the horizon...

      It's been the same for all teams, but perhaps Klopp needs more coaching time than others, which is probable as I imagine he is very very technical.
      David Wright
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #38: Feb 09, 2021 09:58:19 pm
      Having to play players out of position,  through various injuries has not helped in our obvious decline this season, albeit be temporary. The sooner that this is sorted out the better, hopefully starting against Leicester on Saturday. Although the title may be out of our grasp, with a champion's league spot and of course we are still in the Champion's league at present there is still plenty to play for in the remainder of a very difficult season.
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #39: Feb 09, 2021 10:05:24 pm
      Nice post.. Klopp had a cheeky grin on his face after the post match City game when he mentioned he will have week with his players...

      He knows we haven’t turned sh*te overnight, if he can imbed Davies & Kabak into our system freeing Fabinho & Hendo then we become the team we were last season..

      Also wondering if Ben Davies becomes the most forgettable LFC signing in recent memory

      I think Klopp has done exceptionally well to have us where we are...

      String finish in the league & CL final is on the horizon...

      Our midfield for the two recent games where we played well and won, was Gini, Milner and Thiago, a ball-mover, a presser and a creator. Those three could win again vs  Leicester. Now maybe Fab and Hendo move back to midfield Saturday but I'm not sure it's so cute and dried.
      FrenchRed
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #40: Feb 09, 2021 10:27:24 pm
      OK we have been hit by injuries but yesterday we had more or less a settled team apart from CB's, ie. it was our usual front three who created f**k all again, it was a pretty strong midfield with Curits, Thiago and Gini and we had our regular Full Backs and GK. Its not exactly a B team we are putting out.

      It isn't a settled team without the CBs because we're missing Fab and Hendo's influence in midfield and, as a result, neither wing-back is as effective and the link up play to the forwards is sometimes non-existant.

      Bobby had a great shot saved and Sadio put a header just over, so we did make chances, but City have one of the tightest defences in the league: we were never gonna get that many.   Also confidence plays a big part and, at the moment, we don't seem to have much.

      The midfield, for me, plays too many balls back or across the field and we lack that decisive pass to someone making a run in behind the defence.  None of the midfield or defence are scoring goals at the moment, whereas before we had VDD, Fab, Hendo, Ox, Shaq and Nabby knocking them in - we're too reliant on the front three who, fair enough, aren't firing at the moment; but they haven't become bad players overnight. 

      Our B team has been a huge problem this year: we haven't really had one, and the opportunity to blood and give serious game time to some of the youngsters has been squandered (23 games in and Tsimikas has played 3 minutes; Phillips hasn't been played nearly enough). 
      brezipool
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #41: Feb 10, 2021 03:22:40 pm
      The idea of this topic is not to try and tell people they should not be displeased with recent results of performances, nor is it to suggest that you are not a worthy fan if you show your displeasure. Its simply to step back and assess why we might be in the bad run we are in.

      Firstly, let’s get covid out of the way. We have no idea what effect its having on the players and management team. Yes, all teams are in the same boat. But maybe the current climate is influencing the lad’s drive. Its easier to motivate yourself from the challenger position in normal circumstances never mind the current climate. We don’t know if these players and management are seeing less of their families due to the circumstances we don’t know if these players have been affected by being told family or friends are sick. We know some have had it themselves, we don’t know if that has affected performance. For example, have the south American lads seen family other then video calls for months now?

      On the pitch as is well highlighted, the injuries. Yes, every team has injuries. But how many teams have 15 central defensive partnerships due to injury in 23 games? Not only has it led to midfielders playing in defence, thus taking world class midfielders out of the midfield sector, but the inconsistency of team selection is not a good thing. A team cannot have a flow with constant change in the players operating the system.  You get a player back you lose another. You keep your central defenders together for a 2nd game then you lose your keeper, its been crazy.

      In reality would any team fair better than we have? Would city win 10 in a row with Gundogan having to partner Rodrigo in the heart of the defence, and then lose Ederson on top of that or united, would they be in 2nd with Pogba playing centre half alongside Fred?

      In sport, and I’m sure most have played some level of some sport, when you place so much energy into reaching a target and you finally reach it the following season is much harder. Its hard to get yourself up to the levels because sometimes you just can’t lift yourself when you need to because its just not there to give. For everyone playing you as the champion you are now the big target. Now I’m not saying that’s alright, that being champion allows you to ease off, it doesn’t but when you have other quality teams hunting you down and everyone else going beyond their best to stop you and you have nothing left to give its hard. The style this team played with for several seasons aligned with the injury run this season will drain the energy.

      In the 2018 season this team lost 5 league games and went to the champions league final. A season later they lost 1 game, winning 30, to fall just short of a title in 2nd place, but went a step further in Europe winning the champions league. A season later, they win the league title winning 32 games. Losing 3 2 of which after they are crowned champions. That’s some run.

      Add in then that Trent, VVD, Gomez, Robbo, Matip, Fab,Gini, Hendo, Millie, Mo, Sadio, Bobby put serious mileage on the clock in those seasons, with Shaq, Ox, Origi playing a fair share, and they are all still here. Yes, we added some in the intervening summers, but we have so rarely seen Keita and then this year we lose Thiago Tsimikas and Jota for long spells, so your back asking the same guys to go again, no rest.

      I noticed some mentioning that Jürgen doesn’t look himself lately! Going back to what I said earlier, we don’t know his circumstance. Is covid hitting him? Is he not seeing his family? He has given himself for 5 years to get us over the line that we waited to cross for 30 years, is it possible that he’s drained? Of course, it is. What does he feed off at matches? The crowd, the crowd that he cant have right when he needs them the most. He’s human, don’t think for a second that he doesn’t go home and curse these injuries or these results or other things that we don’t even know about.

      So perspective, yes its been a disaster of a league season so far. Yes, we have given up the title. Yes, were disappointed. But let’s not forget what these guys have given us over the last 3 or 4 years. Every team has blips. We are in ours now. This blip could still see us finish 2nd or 3rd and still be crowned champions of Europe again! Things seem bad but step back and look from a different angle. Yesterday losing 4 1 sounds terrible, but 4 goalkeeping errors are made, first one he palms straight out, 2nd and 3rd don’t need more highlighting and the 4the he drops to his knees and the ball goes in over his head, he stands up its not a goal. Take out hi 4 mistakes it’s a different outcome against the team lauded as world class and heirs to our crown. These lads will come good again and they have earned and deserve our total support to the end.         


      100% correct.  :gt-happyup:
      AussieRed
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #42: Feb 11, 2021 10:06:06 pm
      Sorry but from that list I only think we have the best manager, GK and CB. There is no way that you'll convince me we have the best full backs this season and the front three have been fairly average as well.

      We need to shift a lot of deadwood from the squad this summer, but will there be any budget, I doubt it.

      I predict a return to Top4 status for the foreseeable future until the other teams have a dip as City Utd and Chelsea will all be better next season.

      Sorry to be negative but it's just how I see it.



      That's why I said HAD  :D
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #43: Feb 11, 2021 11:50:41 pm
      Quote from Brian78
      The idea of this topic is not to try and tell people they should not be displeased with recent results of performances, nor is it to suggest that you are not a worthy fan if you show your displeasure. Its simply to step back and assess why we might be in the bad run we are in.

      Firstly, let’s get covid out of the way. We have no idea what effect its having on the players and management team. Yes, all teams are in the same boat. But maybe the current climate is influencing the lad’s drive. Its easier to motivate yourself from the challenger position in normal circumstances never mind the current climate. We don’t know if these players and management are seeing less of their families due to the circumstances we don’t know if these players have been affected by being told family or friends are sick. We know some have had it themselves, we don’t know if that has affected performance. For example, have the south American lads seen family other then video calls for months now?

      On the pitch as is well highlighted, the injuries. Yes, every team has injuries. But how many teams have 15 central defensive partnerships due to injury in 23 games? Not only has it led to midfielders playing in defence, thus taking world class midfielders out of the midfield sector, but the inconsistency of team selection is not a good thing. A team cannot have a flow with constant change in the players operating the system.  You get a player back you lose another. You keep your central defenders together for a 2nd game then you lose your keeper, its been crazy.

      Add in then that Trent, VVD, Gomez, Robbo, Matip, Fab,Gini, Hendo, Millie, Mo, Sadio, Bobby put serious mileage on the clock in those seasons, with Shaq, Ox, Origi playing a fair share, and they are all still here. Yes, we added some in the intervening summers, but we have so rarely seen Keita and then this year we lose Thiago Tsimikas and Jota for long spells, so your back asking the same guys to go again, no rest.

      I noticed some mentioning that Jürgen doesn’t look himself lately! Going back to what I said earlier, we don’t know his circumstance. Is covid hitting him? Is he not seeing his family? He has given himself for 5 years to get us over the line that we waited to cross for 30 years, is it possible that he’s drained? Of course, it is. What does he feed off at matches? The crowd, the crowd that he cant have right when he needs them the most. He’s human, don’t think for a second that he doesn’t go home and curse these injuries or these results or other things that we don’t even know about.

      So perspective, yes its been a disaster of a league season so far. Yes, we have given up the title. Yes, were disappointed. But let’s not forget what these guys have given us over the last 3 or 4 years. Every team has blips. We are in ours now. This blip could still see us finish 2nd or 3rd and still be crowned champions of Europe again! Things seem bad but step back and look from a different angle. Yesterday losing 4 1 sounds terrible, but 4 goalkeeping errors are made, first one he palms straight out, 2nd and 3rd don’t need more highlighting and the 4the he drops to his knees and the ball goes in over his head, he stands up its not a goal. Take out hi 4 mistakes it’s a different outcome against the team lauded as world class and heirs to our crown. These lads will come good again and they have earned and deserve our total support to the end.

      The South Americans, and most of the Europeans live with their families, so it's not a case that they don't see them. Of course they can't travel atm, but neither can anyone else. They just have to get on with it. Someone is eventually going to have to make the best of the current circumstances and win the trophies they're playing for, not sulk that they can't do it because they don't have this that or the other. That's not good enough really, everyone is in the same boat. Ditto crowds.

      The league was going swimmingly for us until Allardyce showed up in town and sprinkled his sawdust over the place. Yes it's been disastrous since, but not before then. I have said for years that the December-February part of the season is make or break for title challenges. The amount of games, the long trips, Christmas, weather, injuries, loss of form all can influence the result, or run of results. It's why I look at the fixture list in June within minutes of its release, to see what challenges lay in store for the year ahead, because it matters. For example, it was much better to go to Chelsea in September after a week long break, with a fully fit squad high in confidence against no home fans, than playing City with about 10 key players injured, on a bad run of results, and a goalkeeper suffering from illness and out of form, in the freezing cold.

      There are too many games to go to just write off the season at this point. Finishing top 4 might keep FSG sweet, but it's a minimum acceptable target, not a goal. When you set out looking to retain the league title, finishing below Rodgers and a poor manc side would have to be considered a very poor season.
      brezipool
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #44: Feb 12, 2021 08:22:55 am
      The issue on here is people seeking simplistic answers to complex questions, and then stirring the pot.

      No one is pleased, no one is happy, and throwing a tantrum on a forum doesn't do anything except stir the pot, which for some is the whole point.

      We're still a great team, Klopp is still a great manager.
      We're having a rough spell because of a whole host of factors, all combining at once to create a shitstorm.

      Get a f**king grip.

      is right.
      Ulsters_No1
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #45: Feb 12, 2021 11:28:10 am
      It's been the same for all teams, but perhaps Klopp needs more coaching time than others, which is probable as I imagine he is very very technical.

      I get your point about it being the same for all of the teams, but no other team in the league has played with the intensity of Liverpool over the past 2 seasons, and that is largely down to the time spent on the training field and being able to fulfil this during games for 90 or so minutes.
      brezipool
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #46: Feb 12, 2021 11:39:02 am
      I get your point about it being the same for all of the teams, but no other team in the league has played with the intensity of Liverpool over the past 2 seasons, and that is largely down to the time spent on the training field and being able to fulfil this during games for 90 or so minutes.

      Correct, and no other team has the Anfield crowd behind them. Its well documented how intimidating it is for opposition teams, and how uplifting it is for home players.

      So its defiantly a big factor for our home form at least taking a dip.
      heimdall
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #47: Feb 12, 2021 12:29:03 pm
      I get your point about it being the same for all of the teams, but no other team in the league has played with the intensity of Liverpool over the past 2 seasons, and that is largely down to the time spent on the training field and being able to fulfil this during games for 90 or so minutes.

      hmm, I'd argue that City play with the same intensity as us, and play more games if you include cup runs. Yes they have a better squad but still!
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Perspective
      Reply #48: Feb 23, 2021 08:19:48 am

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