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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. Have you been Vaccinated?

      Yes: Age 70+
      0 (0%)
      Yes: Age 60-69
      6 (12.5%)
      Yes: Age 50-59
      5 (10.4%)
      Yes: 49 and younger, with criteria.
      2 (4.2%)
      Yes: 49 and younger without criteria.
      2 (4.2%)
      No: Age 70+
      0 (0%)
      No: Age 60-69
      3 (6.3%)
      No: Age 50-59
      3 (6.3%)
      No: 49 and younger.
      22 (45.8%)
      Not going to have it at present.
      5 (10.4%)

      Total Members Voted: 46

      Have you been vaccinated?

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      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 27,344 posts | 4191 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #325: Jun 02, 2021 04:46:12 pm
      In other irrelevant news there was a 4% decline in the number of "Ruperts" and " Nicoles" who died in 2020 compared to 2019.

      👍🏼
      FL Red
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      • 26,521 posts | 4533 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #326: Jun 02, 2021 05:06:01 pm
      And ?

      Without lockdowns and with life as it was they would have been through the roof

      That's not necessarily true.

      Compare states here in the US like New York (serious lockdowns, no schools open, mask mandates, etc...) and Florida (no real lockdowns, schools open, only local mask mandates, etc...) and you'll see that they fared much worse than we did here and our population is much, much older than New York's as well. We had one of the lower rates (per capita) of deaths in the country yet we were mostly open for most of the pandemic period.
      FL Red
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      • 26,521 posts | 4533 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #327: Jun 02, 2021 05:08:54 pm
      In other irrelevant news there was a 4% decline in the number of "Ruperts" and " Nicoles" who died in 2020 compared to 2019.

      And this is why there's no use discussing this on a forum...you have already made up your mind and are not willing to consider alternative perspectives. You have in your mind that this is the second Black Death and there is no reason to question the response, question the medicine, question the statistics, etc...

      The only way we learn and do better the next time around is to look at this situation objectively and without political or cultural bias and try to better prepare and react.

      People thought the earth was flat for years and years and mocked anyone that said otherwise, just remember that.
      waltonl4
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 29,481 posts | 4852 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #328: Jun 02, 2021 05:18:03 pm
      And ?

      Without lockdowns and with life as it was they would have been through the roof

      exactly no cars on the road everyone stuck at home you simply cant use previous data as a comparison and just get vaccinated ffs what is wrong with people
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #329: Jun 02, 2021 06:01:19 pm
      As FL said above though there is a difference between the Anti Vax conspiracy theorists and those who choose not to get vaccinated for other reasons, i.e. they have had Covid and are satisfied they have some form of immunity.

      I have had Covid and first vaccine but can totally see FL's viewpoint as well to be honest.

      I'm talking about the Andrew Wakefield acolytes mate.

      Bunch of f**king morons.
      Isaac!
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      • 947 posts | 211 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #330: Jun 02, 2021 07:09:49 pm
      And this is why there's no use discussing this on a forum...you have already made up your mind and are not willing to consider alternative perspectives. You have in your mind that this is the second Black Death and there is no reason to question the response, question the medicine, question the statistics, etc...

      The only way we learn and do better the next time around is to look at this situation objectively and without political or cultural bias and try to better prepare and react.

      People thought the earth was flat for years and years and mocked anyone that said otherwise, just remember that.

      Some people still think the earth is flat, maybe you should remember that. People like me who advocated for earlier lockdowns, were in eager anticipation of the vaccines etc are the ones who follow the science and take advice from experts in the field. It's the right who politicise it, who promote wild conspiracy theories, it's the right who are making irrational claims because they can't take a little temporary inconvenience. It's the same with Climate Change but on an inimaginably bigger scale. You don't like what the experts are telling you so you don't believe it, plant your hands over your ears and sing a happy tune.
      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Toshack
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      • 274 posts | 72 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #331: Jun 02, 2021 07:35:02 pm
      I’m not posting anti-vax stuff. Settle down fella.

      I’m saying that for me, this virus isn’t bad enough for me to rush out and get a vaccine (that’s still not officially approved by the FDA) that we still don’t have any idea what long term effects could be. you literally cannot dispute that we have no clue what long term effects there may be. There may be none, I’m not denying that at all. But we also may find out a few years from now that there are unintended side effects. The survival rate for Covid is over 99% and we just rushed to market a major vaccine in the quickest timeframe of all time. I think the fastest prior to this was 4 or 5 years. I’m actually quite surprised that more people aren’t at least a little bit curious as to how that was all possible.

      Now I’ve already had Covid and according to most research (and the way immunity works) that means I have long lasting immunity, so why should I worry about getting vaccinated?

      You sound like a very dramatic and very scared individual. I can’t tell if you are posting about this to get a rise out of people or if you really think this is as bad as the Black Death. Either way, I’m not going to engage in anymore back and forth with you on this topic. You are going to think what you want and you obviously have strong opinions so I don’t think there’s any use of us conversing on this. You obviously think I’m an idiot for my opinions on this which is ok, but if you met me and spent some time around me I think you’d actually say to yourself “wow, he’s not really a crackpot, he’s genuinely a reasonable guy, just doesn’t look at things the same way as I do”. Or maybe you’d still think I was an idiot, fairs fair. Good day.


      Polite this time, respect to you for that.

      I do actually get the fast tracked comments, yes it is very quick, I thought that myself 6 months ago, but I'm humble enough not to question the world's chief medical officers if they say the benefits outweigh the risks.

      Your own personal circumstances I understand, although as far as I understand it nobody really seems sure how long the immunity will last?

      I'm double-Pfizered up so I'm not scared, no, but I do have strong feelings about what's right and wrong on all this and what measures my government and security agencies ought to be taking against anti-vaxxers and those that facilitate the dissemination of their bullshit.

      Yeah I was angry posting that last night, I'd just watched video clips of kids drinking bleach - destroying their bowels - cos their parents had been brainwashed into thinking it cured coronavirus. Seeing stuff like that makes me despair, to be honest, where the world is going. America's nothing to do with me, at least as far as nationality goes, but to see kids suffer because some evil b***ard has been peddling bleach as a supposed miracle cure disgusted me.
      FL Red
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      • 26,521 posts | 4533 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #332: Jun 02, 2021 08:49:46 pm

      Polite this time, respect to you for that.

      I do actually get the fast tracked comments, yes it is very quick, I thought that myself 6 months ago, but I'm humble enough not to question the world's chief medical officers if they say the benefits outweigh the risks.

      Your own personal circumstances I understand, although as far as I understand it nobody really seems sure how long the immunity will last?

      I'm double-Pfizered up so I'm not scared, no, but I do have strong feelings about what's right and wrong on all this and what measures my government and security agencies ought to be taking against anti-vaxxers and those that facilitate the dissemination of their bullshit.

      Yeah I was angry posting that last night, I'd just watched video clips of kids drinking bleach - destroying their bowels - cos their parents had been brainwashed into thinking it cured coronavirus. Seeing stuff like that makes me despair, to be honest, where the world is going. America's nothing to do with me, at least as far as nationality goes, but to see kids suffer because some evil b***ard has been peddling bleach as a supposed miracle cure disgusted me.

      Yea, the people having their kids drinking bleach...if it's not that it will be something else, unfortunately you don't have to pass a test or anything like that to prove you are competent to raise kids and yes America has it's fair share of nut jobs. As far as being humble about questioning the world's chief medical officers...well I guess that's where we differ. I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning the world's anything. Whether it's medical officers, politicians, world leaders, generals, business tycoons, etc...

      Maybe you are different, but I can't just blindly take what people tell us because they have been elevated to a level of superiority. If that makes me a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorist so be it I guess but I don't just blindly follow anyone. I believe there's enough information nowadays that we shouldn't have misgivings about questioning anyone. Especially people that may or may not have your best interests in mind. When I look at statistics and they don't match up with the hysteria that  seems to be stirred up (especially by the news media who never has anyone's best interest other than their own in mind) I start to question who is benefiting from all of this and why.

      So much changes as we have the benefit of time and retrospect and I personally think we will look back and find out that there were all kinds of things that we thought we knew that were out and out foolish. I do hope the vaccine works for those that are willing to take it and especially for those that have a higher risk of complications to a Covid infection or otherwise. And I hope and pray that there are no long term negative effects or short term for that matter.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 26,521 posts | 4533 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #333: Jun 02, 2021 09:02:04 pm
      Some people still think the earth is flat, maybe you should remember that. People like me who advocated for earlier lockdowns, were in eager anticipation of the vaccines etc are the ones who follow the science and take advice from experts in the field. It's the right who politicise it, who promote wild conspiracy theories, it's the right who are making irrational claims because they can't take a little temporary inconvenience. It's the same with Climate Change but on an inimaginably bigger scale. You don't like what the experts are telling you so you don't believe it, plant your hands over your ears and sing a happy tune.

      Thank you for making my point. You don't know me from Adam but you think that you do and you make assumptions based on that fact. I literally live with a scientist. Before we had kids, my wife worked on research for detection systems for biological weapons defense, literally weaponized viruses and the such. Now she's a high school science teacher, degree in Chemistry and Biology. So when we discuss the scientific aspects of this virus and the pandemic in general I think I've got a pretty good grasp of what's going on, scientifically speaking. We also have several friends in the medical field, most of which are very skeptical about just how quickly the world was willing to completely lock things down and how quickly a vaccine was developed. It's funny, I posted in the Covid thread almost a year ago about how it was very suspect how this virus came about in China, and how we should at least consider the possibility that it was either being tested and accidently released from a lab in Wuhan or that it was purposefully released. I was mocked and laughed at for even suggesting that it was at least worth looking into. Now here we are a year later and we now have Dr. Fauci himself saying that we should be looking into that possibility and that he doesn't believe anymore that it just naturally occurred.

      But that's what you get when you are more concerned with being right, right away than making sure you analyze the data and understand the situation. I think it's telling how you are bragging about how you were in early favor of lockdowns and "following the science". Not sure what science you are specifically talking about because you don't actually cite anything but I can almost guarantee you for anything you cite there's likely data to prove or suggest the opposite, which is why you need an open mind and you don't immediately politicize everything. The only thing lockdowns have shown to do is to complicate our socio-economic problems, and to be a complete and utter millstone around the neck of those that suffer from mental health issues. It's absolutely appalling how people's literal lives have been ruined due to the response to this virus. A virus which likely wouldn't have affected their physical health in near the way it affected their mental health and possibly the rest of their lives. People losing their jobs and livelihoods so that they can not spread a virus with a 99% survival rate. Anyway, I feel like I'm wasting my time. I'm willing to consider if you have some sort of argument or perspective that isn't a literal parroting of what the media is constantly telling us. If you do, feel free to enlighten me. If not then we've probably run this one to ground.
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 27,344 posts | 4191 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #334: Jun 02, 2021 09:02:47 pm
      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Toshack
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      • 274 posts | 72 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #335: Jun 02, 2021 09:35:03 pm


      People like the second one need de-platforming and a knock on the door from the NSA.

      But the real problem are the people like this Gaertner who claims to have discovered a miracle cure for Covid as early as April last year, and yet amazingly nobody has bothered to distribute it throughout the US to save 18 months of GDP, which is a shame as an 80% blancmange 20% hydrogen peroxide solution with a sprinkle of chopped walnuts sounds quite tasty.
      Isaac!
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      • 947 posts | 211 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #336: Jun 02, 2021 09:48:05 pm
      Thank you for making my point. You don't know me from Adam but you think that you do and you make assumptions based on that fact. I literally live with a scientist. Before we had kids, my wife worked on research for detection systems for biological weapons defense, literally weaponized viruses and the such. Now she's a high school science teacher, degree in Chemistry and Biology. So when we discuss the scientific aspects of this virus and the pandemic in general I think I've got a pretty good grasp of what's going on, scientifically speaking. We also have several friends in the medical field, most of which are very skeptical about just how quickly the world was willing to completely lock things down and how quickly a vaccine was developed. It's funny, I posted in the Covid thread almost a year ago about how it was very suspect how this virus came about in China, and how we should at least consider the possibility that it was either being tested and accidently released from a lab in Wuhan or that it was purposefully released. I was mocked and laughed at for even suggesting that it was at least worth looking into. Now here we are a year later and we now have Dr. Fauci himself saying that we should be looking into that possibility and that he doesn't believe anymore that it just naturally occurred.

      But that's what you get when you are more concerned with being right, right away than making sure you analyze the data and understand the situation. I think it's telling how you are bragging about how you were in early favor of lockdowns and "following the science". Not sure what science you are specifically talking about because you don't actually cite anything but I can almost guarantee you for anything you cite there's likely data to prove or suggest the opposite, which is why you need an open mind and you don't immediately politicize everything. The only thing lockdowns have shown to do is to complicate our socio-economic problems, and to be a complete and utter millstone around the neck of those that suffer from mental health issues. It's absolutely appalling how people's literal lives have been ruined due to the response to this virus. A virus which likely wouldn't have affected their physical health in near the way it affected their mental health and possibly the rest of their lives. People losing their jobs and livelihoods so that they can not spread a virus with a 99% survival rate. Anyway, I feel like I'm wasting my time. I'm willing to consider if you have some sort of argument or perspective that isn't a literal parroting of what the media is constantly telling us. If you do, feel free to enlighten me. If not then we've probably run this one to ground.

      The line I bolded is so crazy I don't know what to say. That's the only thing lockdowns achieved is it? You claim scientific literacy yet make the dumbest assertions. You know how this virus is spread right? What is the likely outcome of limiting as much as possible direct human interaction in terms of spread of the disease? What is the likely outcome of allowing complete freedom in densely populated areas in terms of spread of the disease? This disease kills 1% of people it infects as you seem so fond of repeating. 1% of 200 people is a small number, 1% of 200 million people doesn't seem so small does it? 1% doesn't look so small when soldiers are tear gassing people desperate to get into hospitals that cannot cope. This is so obvious and so basic I can hardly believe I need to state it. This is not scientifically controversial, it is only politically controversial.

      And, by the way pal, I've been a Socialist since about the age of 12. I've never "parroted" the Establishment in my f**king life.
      « Last Edit: Jun 02, 2021 09:53:24 pm by Isaac! »
      -LFC-
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,831 posts | 701 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #337: Jun 02, 2021 10:09:32 pm
      How many of the people in the study you quoted had previously existing conditions or other comorbidities? Be interesting to see how many had other issues that caused those complications.

      The incidence of CVT and PVT after COVID-19 is substantially greater than in the matched control cohorts. The incidence of CVT after a diagnosis of COVID-19 is also substantially greater  than  the  expected  incidence  in  the  general  population  in  the  USA,  estimated  to  be between 0.53and 0.77 per million people in any 2-week period[7]and the rate is significantly higher than the highest of these estimates (binomial test: P<0.001).

      The incidence is also many-fold higher than the latest reported incidence of CVT following administration of the first dose of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19(‘Oxford-AstraZeneca’)vaccine (reported by the European Medicines Agency to be around 5 per million vaccinated people[10]) and the latest reported incidence of CVT following administration of the Ad26.COV2.S(“J&J”) vaccine (reported by the Food and Drug Administration to be about 0.9 per million vaccinated people[11]).

      The  increased  rate  of  CVT  in  COVID-19  is  notable,  being  much  more  marked  than  the increased risks for other forms of stroke and cerebral haemorrhage [5]. The PVT data highlight that  COVID-19  is  associated  with  thrombotic  events  that  are  not  limited  to  the  cerebral vasculature.

      https://osf.io/a9jdq/

      “We’ve reached two important conclusions,” study coauthor Paul Harrison tells CBS News. “Firstly, COVID-19 markedly increases the risk of CVT, adding to the list of blood clotting problems this infection causes. Secondly, the COVID-19 risk is higher than seen with the current vaccines, even for those under 30; something that should be taken into account when considering the balances between risks and benefits for vaccination.”

      The study is not the first to link COVID-19 to an elevated risk of blood clots. Aaron Petrey, an immunologist at the University of Utah who was not involved in the Oxford study, writes in an email to The Scientist that for both COVID-19 and the vaccines against it, the risk appears to be tied to antibodies against a protein called anti-platelet factor 4. “I think the broad conclusion from this article is correct, and the risk of clots . . . is significantly higher in COVID because you have multiple mechanisms that all feed together which can result in coagulopathy—from endothelial damage to platelet hyperreactivity and the cytokine storm associated with COVID-19 among others,” he writes. “There is a rich body of study that shows COVID is a highly prothrombotic state, and as a consequence, thrombosis and stroke occur in even young healthy individuals who have mild symptoms after infection.”

      https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/blood-clot-risk-from-covid-19-higher-than-after-vaccines-study-68675

      According to the latest data, out of the 30.8 million doses of the University of Oxford/ AstraZeneca vaccine administered in the UK between 9 December 2020 and 5 May 2021, there have been over 260 cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia cases, equivalent to 10.9 cases per million doses (although it varies by age groups, see below).  The vast majority of events have been reported following the first dose and only 8 after the second dose. Deaths occurred in 20% of the cases (about 50 people in total).

      https://post.parliament.uk/covid-19-vaccines-safety-and-blood-clots/

      I think it’s funny how you now want to appeal to people’s “rights”. Where exactly do these rights you speak of come from? Big man in the sky? The government? Nature?

      I wouldn't say anything about this is funny. Millions of people have died from a virus which has shut the down the world and caused untold devastation the likes of which we have not seen in our lifetimes and yet we have people here who with each post seem to imply that it is not actually that serious; that it is not a 'real' threat, that instead of vaccinating people it would make more sense to naturally allow the virus to spread so as to achieve herd immunity (never mind the millions more that would die as a result) and that because my missus's friend's mother had a stroke this casts doubt on the safety of the vaccine whereas the evidence of the thousands of world leading scientists, epidemiologists, mathematical modellers, virologists, public health experts etc. who study these things intensively each day is perhaps not quite up to scratch by comparison. It is absolutely nuts.

      The right to life is a matter of basic moral intuition: the intrinsic moral sense that we all share as humans that affords us the ability to have compassion for others and to behave in a reciprocal fashion, and which in turn allows us to understand that if our actions unreasonably threaten the lives of our fellow citizens that there will be consequences. This is enshrined in many laws and in many different ways, including in laws which are designed to punish or deter those who would otherwise compromise the progress we have made since the start of the pandemic -- laws on public gatherings, wearing face masks, travel, quarantine etc.
      -LFC-
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,831 posts | 701 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #338: Jun 02, 2021 10:27:49 pm
      That's not necessarily true.

      Compare states here in the US like New York (serious lockdowns, no schools open, mask mandates, etc...) and Florida (no real lockdowns, schools open, only local mask mandates, etc...) and you'll see that they fared much worse than we did here and our population is much, much older than New York's as well. We had one of the lower rates (per capita) of deaths in the country yet we were mostly open for most of the pandemic period.

      We also know that some of the more highly regulated states such as California and Oregon have lower per capita death rates compared with Florida and that New York with its higher population density was particularly badly affected as it was affected early on in the pandemic.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 26,521 posts | 4533 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #339: Jun 02, 2021 10:30:13 pm
      We also know that some of the more highly regulated states such as California and Oregon have lower per capita death rates compared with Florida and that New York with its higher population density was particularly badly affected as it was affected early on in the pandemic.

      Wow, California at 160 and Florida at 171 per 100,000.

      What an amazing statistic to prove your point. So a state where people were basically imprisoned has 11 less deaths per 100,000 than a state where we were open and able to mostly live our lives.

      Thanks for proving my point bud.
      FL Red
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      • 26,521 posts | 4533 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #340: Jun 02, 2021 11:08:06 pm
      You know what, I’m not sure why I’m even arguing, my bad, I’ll swerve this thread from now on. My apologies for taking it off track. Guess I’ll stick to football.
      Isaac!
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      • 947 posts | 211 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #341: Jun 02, 2021 11:22:04 pm
      You know what, I’m not sure why I’m even arguing, my bad, I’ll swerve this thread from now on. My apologies for taking it off track. Guess I’ll stick to football.

      You should stick to finger painting.
      -LFC-
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 2,831 posts | 701 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #342: Jun 02, 2021 11:27:30 pm
      Sorry, stopped reading here. You claim the right to life is a matter of basic moral intuition? An intrinsic moral sense that we all share?
      That's absolutely laughable. One doesn't need to go very far back in history to disprove that every human has the same intrinsic moral intuition. Religions, dictators, ethnic groups, etc.....all have killed, maimed and caused destruction over the course of human history. And many of them have felt morally superior and "right" while doing it. If you can't even come up with a reasonable starting point for a moral authority that's agreeable, then we can't discuss whether it's even reasonable to completely modify the way human beings live to combat a virus with a 99% survival rate.

      What you say is absolutely nothing to the point. A complete red herring.

      I did not say that people have the same set of moral values. I said that humans have an intuitive moral sense and it is this basic moral intuition, which is a feature of rationality itself, that prevents any one person from coherently maintaining that they have certain rights which they would deny to others in the same position. If you decide to act recklessly or in a way that unreasonably places the lives of other people at risk, you can well expect, by virtue of the intuition to which I have referred, that they will be forced to treat you in kind.
      fields of anny rd
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 17,663 posts | 1960 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #343: Jun 03, 2021 08:41:00 am
      ... yes I am half vaccinated at this stage.

      Roll on the final one.
      Swinton
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
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      • 1,982 posts | 40 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest...
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #344: Jun 03, 2021 09:31:47 am
      Second vaccine is a week today, only had a bit of a stiff arm after the first one, no other side affects. I got Astra. In and out within 5 minutes.

      Easy peasy.
      Swab
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
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      • 13,361 posts | 3462 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #345: Jun 03, 2021 11:50:19 am
      Second vaccine is a week today, only had a bit of a stiff arm after the first one, no other side affects. I got Astra. In and out within 5 minutes.

      Easy peasy.

      I've had both, and the only side effect was a bit of tiredness.

      So I had a nap.

      Oh, the horror ;)
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 27,344 posts | 4191 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #346: Jun 03, 2021 12:31:03 pm
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 27,344 posts | 4191 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #347: Jun 03, 2021 04:17:09 pm
      Shabs
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 27,344 posts | 4191 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #348: Jun 03, 2021 06:50:50 pm
      Arab Scouse
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
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      • 3,646 posts | 664 
      Re: Have you been vaccinated?
      Reply #349: Jun 03, 2021 10:04:12 pm
      Mother in law of my wife's co-worker...healthy older lady, no pre-existing issues, gets convinced to get vaccinated. Proceeds to then have a stroke and her doctor is sure it was caused by the vaccine. Who knows, but definitely something to keep in mind. She's not doing well, hoping she pulls through though. Crazy.

      My mom's cousin passed away taking his 2nd pfizer jab. He was intubated in the hospital a few days after his 2nd jab and passed away.

      But I booked my vaccine for 18th of June. the data in Israel and the UK shows that the vaccines work and they do save a lot of lives. I prefer to get vaccinated rather than catching covid that would definitely put me in the hospital because I'm asthmatic. My best friend caught it (34 and healthy) and had to use an oxygen tank for 3 days at home because there were no space in hospital and could not breath.

      Plus covid is a collective/multiplicative risk as it has shown so far. The more people get vaccinated the better the odds of stopping transmissions and creating new variants that would stop so called herd immunity.




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