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      Scouting talk

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      AussieRed
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #506: Jan 19, 2022 03:49:07 am
      Just thought I would have a look at who we are not buying

      agreed...we will promote from the Youth Team!!!
      Salah10
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #507: Jan 19, 2022 08:37:33 am
      Just thought I would have a look at who we are not buying

      Good scouting for Footy Manager 😂
      tezmac
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #508: Jan 19, 2022 11:30:26 am
      It upsets me the budget Klopp has to work on and looking like no signings again and the Salah situation has not been sorted out…..
      srslfc
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #509: Jan 19, 2022 01:11:44 pm
      It upsets me the budget Klopp has to work on and looking like no signings again and the Salah situation has not been sorted out…..

      Honestly mate I think it upsets you a hell of a lot more then it upsets Jürgen.

      FL Red
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #510: Jan 19, 2022 01:26:59 pm
      James Pearce: Come the summer, Liverpool will be looking to enhance their attacking department. Rather than buying the finished article, Liverpool are expected to continue targeting players aged 25 or under who they believe have huge potential.


      So there's the wet blanket for the summer already covering us up. "Huge potential" or another way to say "affordable" or maybe even "cheap".

      I guess you have to discern what huge potential means to all those involved. The fact that it says "rather than buying the finished article" means we won't even be targeting Jota like players. I mean he was pretty established as a good player when we bought him no?

      And if it was targeting 22 and under that have huge potential that would be one thing, but at 25, you should already be a finished article or close to it.

      I guess technically Bellingham fits this criteria but he isn't really one for the "attacking" department is he? 
      ConzS
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #511: Jan 19, 2022 01:47:06 pm
      James Pearce: Come the summer, Liverpool will be looking to enhance their attacking department. Rather than buying the finished article, Liverpool are expected to continue targeting players aged 25 or under who they believe have huge potential.


      So there's the wet blanket for the summer already covering us up. "Huge potential" or another way to say "affordable" or maybe even "cheap".

      I guess you have to discern what huge potential means to all those involved. The fact that it says "rather than buying the finished article" means we won't even be targeting Jota like players. I mean he was pretty established as a good player when we bought him no?

      And if it was targeting 22 and under that have huge potential that would be one thing, but at 25, you should already be a finished article or close to it.

      I guess technically Bellingham fits this criteria but he isn't really one for the "attacking" department is he?
      I think Jota would have fit in to that category when we bought him. He certainly wasn’t the finished article, given he was down the pecking order for Wolves.

      I also think Salah and Mane, and most of the players we have bought during Klopp’s tenure, would fit in to that category. I’ve no problem with it to be honest other than to say my expectations will be higher if somebody goes the other way.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #512: Jan 19, 2022 02:07:02 pm
      I think Jota would have fit in to that category when we bought him. He certainly wasn’t the finished article, given he was down the pecking order for Wolves.

      I also think Salah and Mane, and most of the players we have bought during Klopp’s tenure, would fit in to that category. I’ve no problem with it to be honest other than to say my expectations will be higher if somebody goes the other way.

      Exactly. Players like Mane, Salah, Jota, Robbo and even Matip were not the finished product when they joined.

      I care about talent, not whether they were free, cheap or expensive.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #513: Jan 19, 2022 02:33:00 pm
      James Pearce: Come the summer, Liverpool will be looking to enhance their attacking department. Rather than buying the finished article, Liverpool are expected to continue targeting players aged 25 or under who they believe have huge potential.


      So there's the wet blanket for the summer already covering us up. "Huge potential" or another way to say "affordable" or maybe even "cheap".

      I guess you have to discern what huge potential means to all those involved. The fact that it says "rather than buying the finished article" means we won't even be targeting Jota like players. I mean he was pretty established as a good player when we bought him no?

      And if it was targeting 22 and under that have huge potential that would be one thing, but at 25, you should already be a finished article or close to it.

      I guess technically Bellingham fits this criteria but he isn't really one for the "attacking" department is he?
      Nope, Jota was not the finished article when we bought him and he is still not the finished article. I personally debated with people a year before we bought him(in the summer transfer's thread), for a whole summer that he is the player (at Wolves) we should be targetting and the large majority dismissed him and said the one we needed to have was Jimenez (and the logic was ''lets get the finished article''). Fast forward a season and a half later and I think we probably would've missed a good opportunity to streghten the squad for the medium to long term future by going for Jimenez instead of Jota despite the former being ''the finished article''.

      My point is I have no problem with us buying players with potential if the transaction is the product of good scouting like Salah, Fabinho, Jota, Robertson, etc. Sure some of those don't go as planned (Taki comes to mind) but I think that we've proven time and time again that we're not scouting and pulling the trigger on the same type of players we used to under previous administrations. We are actually pulling this off more often than not (and by ''more often than not'' I mean that its working 90% of the time). Also, once the player is integrated and actually performing at that high level nobody cares about what he used to be when you bought him, be it finished article, 25, 22, or newborn. I also think that when we say ''25 with lots of potential'' it probably means what we saw with Mo, Jota or Fabinho for example. Pretty good players but can hit another level or two and transform into top 10 in the world in their position by integrating a system and style of play that suit them + being coached by world class manager. These player then give you 4 or 5 years of prime depending on the position they play. 

      The reality is that yes the squad needs to be updated but when we say that it doesn't mean that we need new starters. We need depth in a couple of departments with the most important condition being that this depth can completely take over in 2 or 3 years time. Assuming we extend Mo, I don't see the ''starting'' front three changing much next year. It will still be Sadio, Jota and Mo. In that case you dont need to go spend 70 or 80 million on somebody who will command a huge annual wage and demand immediate starting 11 minutes when you can pull another Jota type deal.

      I would share your concerns if we actually were trying to pull these deals and failed more often than not but the truth is we are one of the most successful clubs at this in the world currently.

      Ps: I also would add that a lot of us (including me) easily forget about youngsters being brought through the academy and the belief the staff and the coach has in them. Jones completely disapeared from under most people's radar but the kid is still 20 and Klopp stated more than once that he believes he will become part of the starting 11. I can bet you 5 pounds that if Eliott comes back to a slow couple of months after he is fit, by the time summer comes, people will dismiss him as if he doesn't exist  and the conversation will shift from we need 1 or 2 midfielders to we need 3 or 4 midfielders.
      tezmac
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #514: Jan 19, 2022 03:18:29 pm
      Dont think you can asess Elliot till next season but we still need at least 2 midfielders. Dosnt look like happening this window
      « Last Edit: Jan 19, 2022 04:38:15 pm by tezmac »
      Salah10
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #515: Jan 20, 2022 10:17:33 am
      Ousmane Dembele available this month.

      We should take a punt. He's available now for a knock down fee and he's young enough to get a sizeable fee should it not work out. I think his style is made for the prem. When he gets going he's an all action winger.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #516: Jan 20, 2022 10:22:47 am
      Ousmane Dembele available this month.

      We should take a punt. He's available now for a knock down fee and he's young enough to get a sizeable fee should it not work out. I think his style is made for the prem. When he gets going he's an all action winger.

      He has also had about 20 injuries in the past 4 years missing just over 100 games in that period
      Salah10
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #517: Jan 20, 2022 10:30:29 am
      He has also had about 20 injuries in the past 4 years missing just over 100 games in that period

      So has Keita but he still gets backed.

      We could recoup any wages through receiving a fee should it not work out in 1.5/2 years time.

      Go speak to fsg and see what you can do pal.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #518: Jan 20, 2022 10:36:16 am
      So has Keita but he still gets backed.

      We could recoup any wages through receiving a fee should it not work out in 1.5/2 years time.

      Go speak to fsg and see what you can do pal.

      Before we bought Naby he missed 8 games in 3 seasons 🤦‍♂️


      His injury issues were unknown

      Why get a player in who has had significant injury issues ?

      I can see it now - they guy is constantly out injured and you would be then pointing fingers at the club for buying a player with known injury issues

      He is also currently on £300k a week and demanded £700k a week to stay at Barcelona


      I think it’s fair to say the club won’t be going near him
      Salah10
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #519: Jan 20, 2022 10:39:40 am
      Before we bought Naby he missed 8 games in 3 seasons 🤦‍♂️


      His injury issues were unknown

      Why get a player in who has had significant injury issues ?

      I can see it now - they guy is constantly out injured and you would be then pointing fingers at the club for buying a player with known injury issues

      He is also currently on £300k a week and demanded £700k a week to stay at Barcelona


      I think it’s fair to say the club won’t be going near him

      Dembele will always retain a decent transfer fee hence my condition, if it doesn't work out etc, in my first post.

      £700k a week he can go psg. No thanks.
      Brian78
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #520: Jan 20, 2022 11:38:50 am
      Tielemans

      Linked again...Leicester seem to be going backwards a bit

      Would he be the best signing we could make for midfield
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #521: Jan 20, 2022 12:12:44 pm
      Before we bought Naby he missed 8 games in 3 seasons 🤦‍♂️


      His injury issues were unknown

      Why get a player in who has had significant injury issues ?

      I can see it now - they guy is constantly out injured and you would be then pointing fingers at the club for buying a player with known injury issues

      He is also currently on £300k a week and demanded £700k a week to stay at Barcelona


      I think it’s fair to say the club won’t be going near him
      You summed it up pretty good. The lad is an injury magnet and after doing next to nothing since moving to Barca he has the nerves (him and his agent) to ask for more than double the wages he is currently on. He'll end up at PSG or Newcastle with these kind of demands. I don't even understand why Barca want to keep him to start with. I also don't see a lot of top clubs taking a punt on him even if it was for the 300k he is on right now. He literally spends all his time sidelined.

      I also don't understand why some in this thread would want us to go for him. You are spot on, if we were to sign a player like that, as soon as he would start missing games, the same people who want us to sign him would then whine our ears off about how the club went and signed a ''useless player'' and all that good stuff. Hell it's done even with players who had no sign of being injury prone when we signed them (like Keita).
      Don77
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #522: Jan 20, 2022 12:39:30 pm
      Tielemans

      Linked again...Leicester seem to be going backwards a bit

      Would he be the best signing we could make for midfield

      Bellingham for me. No way we will stump up the cash though. Surprised tielemans stayed there tbh.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #523: Jan 20, 2022 12:56:08 pm
      Bellingham for me. No way we will stump up the cash though. Surprised tielemans stayed there tbh.
      I don't see Dortmund selling both Haaland and Bellingham in the same summer. Haaland will most probably go but Bellingham will stay for at least another season probably. Of course this is if none of the oil clubs decide to go an pay them a silly sum to change their mind. He has no release clause too so it will be hard to change their mind this summer without a ridiculous offer.
      Billo
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #524: Jan 20, 2022 01:03:24 pm
      Don't think we are going to see some action this window. Im curious on if that is JK decision or he has been told to wait until summer.

      We can try to guess, JK hasn't been very active in January in the past but every season is different. Afcon, injures and the pandemic.

      He doesn't seem like a guy who would go to press if he doesn't get his way. So I really hope he writes a book when he retires. Don't think we will see the truth before that.

      Then again, he could be the one who don't want any player now. I think it's a mistake but as long as its his choice then fair enough.

      I really hope he writes on his time with us.
      Don77
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #525: Jan 20, 2022 01:13:12 pm
      I don't see Dortmund selling both Haaland and Bellingham in the same summer. Haaland will most probably go but Bellingham will stay for at least another season probably. Of course this is if none of the oil clubs decide to go an pay them a silly sum to change their mind. He has no release clause too so it will be hard to change their mind this summer without a ridiculous offer.

      This summer or the summer after ... 70m ... 90m it doesn't matter ... we won't be eating off that table. I'm sure the club already has plans in place depending on who stays/leaves ... we need a creative midfielder and another striker. I think mane is off in the summer ... but if Mo doesn't sign by the end of June he is off as well and will need to be replaced so maybe then we put an offer to sadio. Seems like we arnt prepared to re-sign the 2 of them. Busy summer
      PTU
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #526: Jan 20, 2022 01:42:43 pm
      Tielemans

      Linked again...Leicester seem to be going backwards a bit

      Would he be the best signing we could make for midfield

      Couldn't agree more.
      He'll be out of contract in 2023, so he might be available at a reduced price this summer.
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #527: Jan 20, 2022 01:51:37 pm
      Dembele will always retain a decent transfer fee hence my condition, if it doesn't work out etc, in my first post.

      £700k a week he can go psg. No thanks.

      I thought we should be paying players whatever they want?

      Between wages and, most importantly, his injury record during his time in Spain, there is also this potential issue for Barcelona to sell him in the winter.

      "However, sources added to ESPN that getting a fee for him this month would be difficult because it would eat into commission the player and his camp would get this summer when they can move for free."
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #528: Jan 20, 2022 01:54:25 pm
      This summer or the summer after ... 70m ... 90m it doesn't matter ... we won't be eating off that table. I'm sure the club already has plans in place depending on who stays/leaves ... we need a creative midfielder and another striker. I think mane is off in the summer ... but if Mo doesn't sign by the end of June he is off as well and will need to be replaced so maybe then we put an offer to sadio. Seems like we arnt prepared to re-sign the 2 of them. Busy summer
      I think it also depends on what you do with Keita. His contract expires next summer. Do you wave the white flag on him and sell him this summer or do you offer him an extention? I can't say that I know what the club will decide to do with him. We also know that Klopp highly rates both Eliott and Jones. While we, as fans, may reserve judgement for when we've seen enough, I think that the nature of Klopp and his staff's plans are naturally going to depend on how much trust they have in these two kids.

      Thiago = deal end in summer 2024

      Hendo = 2025

      Fabinho = 2026

      Those three I think we can agree are not getting sold. Jones and Eliott are obviously staying. Morton looks set to stay within the squad and slowly become the back-up for Fab. Milner is leaving. If we assume Keita is gonna be let go of then we are indeed in need of one midfielder. What we're most probably NOT gonna be looking for is somebody with a CAM profile like Coutinho. The bulk of the creativity task is gonna be put on Eliott's shoulders. I think we'll be looking for a box to box with 3 lungs, quick feet, strenght on the ball, ability to drive at defenders, will come back do a good job mopping like Gini used to alongside Fab. In short, we're gonna be looking for a swiss knife of a midfielder. This does match with some of the reports saying we are interested in Tchouameni from Monaco.

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