Trending Topics

      Next match: Betis v LFC [Friendly] Sat 27th Jul @ 12:30 am
      Acrisure Stadium

      Today is the 24th of July and on this date LFC's match record is P9 W6 D1 L2

      Scouting talk

      Read 378405 times
      skolRED, Fan 86, sgcoldplay and 15 Guests are viewing this topic.
      Don77
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 6,635 posts | 1125 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5704: Sep 02, 2023 10:08:04 am
      I had no idea Forrest had signed Sangarre until just now.

      It’s going to be interesting to see how Endo performs in comparison to the other DMs who have moved clubs this window namely, Caicedo, Amrabat, Sangarre and Lavia. I hope it doesn’t cost us.

      Agree mate.

      But if Jürgen was happy with Endo then who am I to question that. We will draw our own conclusions I'm sure. Not interested in the others now.

      If Jürgen was happy with endo that's good enough for me
      Richard88
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
      • ***

      • 399 posts | 145 
      • John 3:16
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5705: Sep 02, 2023 10:21:51 am
      Summer business is a 6/10 for me.

      Mac Allister - Great addition and just what we needed. He's the replacement for Gini, finally. Him playing has shown just how much we've needed to replace Gini and he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet.

      Szobszlai - Looking a great signing. Release clause met and brought in with no fuss. Surprised everyone and so far he's showing great potential for big things.

      Endo - Can't help but call this a poor signing. Too many questions around the signing. We fart about with Lavia for weeks, bid £111m for Caicedo, Chelsea hand us our ass with both players then we sign this guy and say he's just as good as the former two. If he was just as good then why tf was we bidding £111m for another guy? He was rushed, last minute and cheap. Rule of thumb is anything rushed, last minute and cheap is usually sh*te. The jury is out. So far the Toon game had him looking like a deer in headlights but let's see. He's a likeable guy that's for sure.

      Gravenberch - Is he what we needed? Why did we wait until the final day to sign him? We had all summer so it's very confusing. I don't know a lot about him so I'll keep my confetti closed for now. Glad we signed someone.

      CB - ......

      RB - ......

      Summer rebuild is 50% done I reckon. We're very short at the back when it comes to reliable numbers.

      The disaster with Chelsea is one to remember. Hopefully they learn from it.

      £200m warchest turned in to and £85m warchest very quietly 😂
      This window has the potential to be an all-time great one if incomings reach their respective potential.

      It's still early but people are already comparing Szoboszlai to DeBruyne, and though he has a way to go before reaching that level there's a good chance he at least gets close to being that sort of impact player after some time working with Klopp.

      Mac Allister looks very tidy in midfield and will be a key cog in keeping the midfield ticking along for the foreseeable future.

      Gravenberch has arguably the highest ceiling of all three, but probably the least defined role long-term.

      The three of them are very young, aged 21, 22, and 24, meaning that they can potentially form the nucleus of the midfield for close to a decade. Should that happen, and the team has succes trophy-wise, then this summer's business will be looked at in hindsight as a pivotal and successful window. Admittedly there's a way to go and there are questions to be asked, but I'll predict that time will view this window well a few seasons from now.
      Cad1875
      • Forum Alan Hansen
      • ****

      • 635 posts | 59 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5706: Sep 02, 2023 11:38:52 am
       Glad to have Ryan aboard wanted another couple , CB and a RB still need some cover.


      Sane and £200 million for Mo was an amazing offer if true ,I`d think that`d be hard to turn down Andre`e maybe in Jan.

      Wonder  if any these guys came close , I dare say Ive missed about another 20 going by the back pages

      Ndide ,Jarrod ,Paulinho, , the wonder kid from Sunderland, Leroy Sane , Joao Felix,Douglas Luiz,
      Arthur Theate, Perr Schuurs  Piero Hincapié. Cheick Doucouré,Nicolò Barella, Benjamin Pavard,
      Federico Chiesa,Kalvin Phillips,  Gonçalo Inácio,  Kone ,Khéphren Thuram
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 13,394 posts | 3539 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5707: Sep 02, 2023 01:29:11 pm
      Summer business is a 6/10 for me.

      Mac Allister - Great addition and just what we needed. He's the replacement for Gini, finally. Him playing has shown just how much we've needed to replace Gini and he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet.

      Szobszlai - Looking a great signing. Release clause met and brought in with no fuss. Surprised everyone and so far he's showing great potential for big things.

      Endo - Can't help but call this a poor signing. Too many questions around the signing. We fart about with Lavia for weeks, bid £111m for Caicedo, Chelsea hand us our ass with both players then we sign this guy and say he's just as good as the former two. If he was just as good then why tf was we bidding £111m for another guy? He was rushed, last minute and cheap. Rule of thumb is anything rushed, last minute and cheap is usually sh*te. The jury is out. So far the Toon game had him looking like a deer in headlights but let's see. He's a likeable guy that's for sure.

      Gravenberch - Is he what we needed? Why did we wait until the final day to sign him? We had all summer so it's very confusing. I don't know a lot about him so I'll keep my confetti closed for now. Glad we signed someone.

      CB - ......

      RB - ......

      Summer rebuild is 50% done I reckon. We're very short at the back when it comes to reliable numbers.

      The disaster with Chelsea is one to remember. Hopefully they learn from it.

      £200m warchest turned in to and £85m warchest very quietly 😂

      Who told you there was a £200mil warchest ?


      Endo - played a grand total of 90mins and called a poor signing , basically because he didn’t cost millions, he wasn’t “last minute” as he came in weeks ago and not sure why you are judging by the price when he was cheaper because of his contract situation.

      Right back ? Why are you still going on about a right back when it was clear the club had no interest in bringing in a right back

      Gravenburch - you do know that Munich said his wasn’t for sale hence why he didn’t come in earlier in the window

      The “rebuild” as some keep calling it was

      3 key midfielders leaving - Fabinho , Henderson and Milner

      And 2 players who filled the physion room

      They were replaced by 4 more durable younger players

      It was an excellent window that Klopp seems very happy with
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 40,731 posts | 8764 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5708: Sep 02, 2023 01:57:17 pm
      Saw Brighton got Ansu Fati from Barcelona on a loan deal. Surprised by that as i thought he, Pedro and Gavi were going to be the next wave for Barcelona.

      Brought in Felix and Cancelo
      PolarBearRed
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,766 posts | 865 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5709: Sep 02, 2023 02:55:11 pm
      Whilst it would have been ideal to bring in a CB now it's understandable that they're choosing to wait.

      It's often underestimated how much a lot of turnover can unsettle a squad, and this squad has had a massive overhaul this window with 6 players leaving (Fabinho, Henderson, Milner, Keita, Ox, Carvalho) - all of whom play in central positions on the pitch and several of which have been key leaders in the squad on and off the pitch.

      Whilst expectations are and should be high this season, realistically it's going to take time for our new midfielders to learn Klopp's tactics and systems, so there's undoubtedly going to be some growing pains and bumps along the road this year.

      This season the club is also in the Europa League which also presents an ideal platform to bed in young players and try players in new positions (eg. Gravenberch as a 6).

      The midfield positions in Klopp's system are the most demanding on the pitch tactically, so it makes sense that the midfield rebuild has been done ahead of the defense. CB isn't as hard for a new player to learn tactics for (relative to midfield), so once the midfield is settled it should be easy for a new CB or two to slot in to a functioning team next summer to complete the Klopp 2.0 revamp.

      The timing of things isn't quite there yet to be adding another high profile CB to the squad. Anyone joining will be wary of the fact that Van Dijk and Konaté are still very much first choice right now, and will see that minutes will need to be shared with Matip and Gomez too. By next summer the picture changes a lot however as a clear spot opens up by Matip leaving, and at which point Van Dijk will only have 12 months to go on his deal so it will be easy to see a very clear progression plan into a starting spot next to Konaté at LCB.
      Good take on the situation, Rich. I agree with you and think that, overall, this is a somewhat satisfying window for me. There's only two questions I am asking myself.

      Assuming we knew we were not moving for a CB, why let Phillips go on loan? If Quansah is truly ready to play with the senior squad then this question can be scratched because you then have a 5-men rotation for what is, essentially, two spots because I don't think Klopp will play anybody in Robbo's spot unless he goes out injured. Even if we assume Matip and Konate will miss quite a few games then its still 3 men for 2 spots. With that said, I'll wait before I say Quansah is ready (all we had is a 20 minutes sample and some preseason minutes).

      The second questions is will Endo perform to the level we expect/need him to? This question can also scratched depending on what the manager ends up doing which, at the moment, is shaping up to be a sort of rotation in our midfield between the lads we have. The no.6 job will probably be rotated between Endo, Gravenberch, Baj, Thiago (when fit) and maybe even Macca. Will that prove to be a smart little idea that ends up giving us tactical flexibility all while solving an issue or will it be too unstable to work? I guess we're going to have to wait and see.

      In the meantime, I think our first and most pressing issue isn't related to squad, but actually related to tactics. We still have not figured out a way to press the opposition the way we used to before last season. Teams figured out they can involve their goalkeeper, create a box with their central mids and CBs and they play through us this way (if I'm not mistaken that was De Zerbi's doing last season and then everybody copied him). We'll need to fix that regardless of the new signings because this has been and still is a problem with our numbers in the possession and chances departments  showing it in the first three games. This is also why I think the red cards in both our last games saw us suddenly look much better since it forced us to simply be more compact and press lower and with less intensity. I'm not saying our problem is we press too high or too intense, but I think its logical that if your press is unsuccessful then the higher and more intense it is the worse the consequences will be.
      PastorGeek
      • Not Actual Geek
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,638 posts | 772 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5710: Sep 02, 2023 03:30:46 pm
      bmck
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,609 posts | 1683 
      • YNWA
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5711: Sep 02, 2023 04:11:14 pm
      I'd give the window 7/10.

      Mac and Szobo look really promising. Have already hit the ground running and feels like we have more energy and something different in the middle. Really good early business done there.
      Endo would need to improve on what we've seen so far to make an impact. But it's early days.
      Gravenberch is young and has potential, hopefully he can get his career back on track with us and grab the chance. Seems to be someone Jürgen wanted so fingers crossed.

      AOC and Keita will barely be missed, so we're a body up on Fab/Hendo/Milner. But we know guys like Thiago and Jones will miss a lot of games, so the new guys are straight in at the deep end. Though Elliot and Bajcetic can do a job.  And Jürgen seems to like Gapko in the middle in some games.

      We didn't bring in a defender and we shipped out Philips [tho only 6 months, so guess we can extend or bring him back if needed] Ramsey and Williams on loan.  Risky, and though the guys should get more game time and come back with some experience, we haven't replaced them. Could really do with a defensively minded RB. Seems the most glaring area we need to strengthen, but we've done nothing this time around.

      Up front, we have a really good options, 5 quality strikers and young Doak there too. There are goals there. Lost Bob but have cover.

      Given we lost Hendo and Fab unexpectedly, we still managed to then go do deals for Endo and Ryan. 

      When you think of last summer, this has been a lot better. There are still things to do, but last summer had us playing catchup this summer. Some senior players have left but we've focusing on bringing in players into the middle where they are most needed.
      Will be interesting watching the new guys continue to bed in. So far so good. And something solid to build on.
      racerx34
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 33,744 posts | 3942 
      • THE SALT IN THE SOUP
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5712: Sep 02, 2023 04:26:50 pm
      7/10 - on the basis that I would have liked the club to sign a CB and Endo is most likely a squad signing.
      The rebuild of midfield probably came a year or two late but it final arrived and it was chaos.

      Excitement level is 10/10 on the basis that I'm looking forward to seeing what Quansah and Doak can do,
      Elliott has already shown he is ready to take on more regular minutes from the bench, and Bajcetic is back.

      Sure the experience level of the squad has dropped significantly but there is no shortage of hunger and togetherness.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,341 posts | 1132 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5713: Sep 02, 2023 05:12:37 pm
      I bet Chelsea fans would tell us they're window was a 10/10. Meanwhile, Cooper and company just butch slapped them at the bridge. How much did that midfield cost again?

      Up the freaking Reds
      Richard88
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
      • ***

      • 399 posts | 145 
      • John 3:16
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5714: Sep 02, 2023 06:52:51 pm
      Good take on the situation, Rich. I agree with you and think that, overall, this is a somewhat satisfying window for me. There's only two questions I am asking myself.

      Assuming we knew we were not moving for a CB, why let Phillips go on loan? If Quansah is truly ready to play with the senior squad then this question can be scratched because you then have a 5-men rotation for what is, essentially, two spots because I don't think Klopp will play anybody in Robbo's spot unless he goes out injured. Even if we assume Matip and Konate will miss quite a few games then its still 3 men for 2 spots. With that said, I'll wait before I say Quansah is ready (all we had is a 20 minutes sample and some preseason minutes).

      The second questions is will Endo perform to the level we expect/need him to? This question can also scratched depending on what the manager ends up doing which, at the moment, is shaping up to be a sort of rotation in our midfield between the lads we have. The no.6 job will probably be rotated between Endo, Gravenberch, Baj, Thiago (when fit) and maybe even Macca. Will that prove to be a smart little idea that ends up giving us tactical flexibility all while solving an issue or will it be too unstable to work? I guess we're going to have to wait and see.

      In the meantime, I think our first and most pressing issue isn't related to squad, but actually related to tactics. We still have not figured out a way to press the opposition the way we used to before last season. Teams figured out they can involve their goalkeeper, create a box with their central mids and CBs and they play through us this way (if I'm not mistaken that was De Zerbi's doing last season and then everybody copied him). We'll need to fix that regardless of the new signings because this has been and still is a problem with our numbers in the possession and chances departments  showing it in the first three games. This is also why I think the red cards in both our last games saw us suddenly look much better since it forced us to simply be more compact and press lower and with less intensity. I'm not saying our problem is we press too high or too intense, but I think its logical that if your press is unsuccessful then the higher and more intense it is the worse the consequences will be.
      Thanks mate, I appreciate your thoughts too.

      Letting Phillips go probably indicates that Klopp is comfortable giving Quansah some games in the Europa League, which really should be fine with the easy group we have. Phillips returns from his loan in January so if there's an injury crisis at CB halfway through the season it's still possible to use him when fixtures build up from January onwards.

      Once Gravenberch gets up to speed (which realistically may take a few months, just as it did with Fabinho) I'd imagine that he'll be preferred as first choice over Endo. Time will tell how big of an impact Endo will have, bit at the very least he'll provide some veteran leadership in youthful sides in the cups and EL games.

      Agree on tactics, it'll be interesting to see how that develops this season. On the pressing though, one big reason why the team failed so much last year was because the midfielders stopped being capable of pressing with the intensity that Klopps system demands. Having fresh legs in midfield could help the team immensely even if Klopp reverts to the 433 tactics that seemingly got "found out" by Zerbi et al.
      Richard88
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
      • ***

      • 399 posts | 145 
      • John 3:16
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5715: Sep 03, 2023 12:13:05 pm
      Somewhat surprising that Klopp has opted to not use the last non-homegrown squad spot available.

      Perhaps it's an indication however that a non-HG player will be added in January (with no planned departures).
      Richard88
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
      • ***

      • 399 posts | 145 
      • John 3:16
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5716: Sep 04, 2023 10:40:32 pm
      Seems like the plan next couple of windows will be to:

      1) Replace Salah when he presumably leaves next summer, ideally with a left footed RW since Nunez, Jota, Gakpo, and Diaz all play either centrally or on the left.

      2) Replace Matip.

      3) Contract extension for Trent (current deal expires 2025).

      4) Young understudy for Van Dijk at LCB (his contract expires 2025 when he'll be 34).

      5) Thiago replacement - ideally a young DM. This may not be necessary if Bajcetic, Jones, Elliott, and especially Gravenberch take big steps this season.

      6) If Kelleher opts to leave for first team football then a young backup GK is needed.

      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,341 posts | 1132 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5717: Sep 05, 2023 12:52:12 am
      Seems like the plan next couple of windows will be to:

      1) Replace Salah when he presumably leaves next summer, ideally with a left footed RW since Nunez, Jota, Gakpo, and Diaz all play either centrally or on the left.

      2) Replace Matip.

      3) Contract extension for Trent (current deal expires 2025).

      4) Young understudy for Van Dijk at LCB (his contract expires 2025 when he'll be 34).

      5) Thiago replacement - ideally a young DM. This may not be necessary if Bajcetic, Jones, Elliott, and especially Gravenberch take big steps this season.

      6) If Kelleher opts to leave for first team football then a young backup GK is needed.
      I'm with you on all of em, except 5. I think Gravenberch is his replacement. I also forsee the long-term Fab signing is already here, just dont know who it is yet. Maybe it's Barjetic, Jones, or Gravenberch. Heck, maybe Klopp keeps Macca there and Gravenberch plays the 8. Time will tell.
      Richard88
      • Forum Ronnie Moran
      • ***

      • 399 posts | 145 
      • John 3:16
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5718: Sep 05, 2023 01:06:41 am
      I'm with you on all of em, except 5. I think Gravenberch is his replacement. I also forsee the long-term Fab signing is already here, just dont know who it is yet. Maybe it's Barjetic, Jones, or Gravenberch. Heck, maybe Klopp keeps Macca there and Gravenberch plays the 8. Time will tell.
      I agree with you. As stated I think a replacement for Thiago may not be necessary, but will depend on how the young midfielders do this year.

      Personally I think Klopp will want to mould Gravenberch into a 6 to be the new "lighthouse" of this team. He has a long way to go defensively and tactically, but the raw tools are there.
      gazred
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
      • ****

      • 888 posts | 319 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5719: Sep 05, 2023 07:41:35 am
      I agree with you. As stated I think a replacement for Thiago may not be necessary, but will depend on how the young midfielders do this year.

      Personally I think Klopp will want to mould Gravenberch into a 6 to be the new "lighthouse" of this team. He has a long way to go defensively and tactically, but the raw tools are there.

      We might not have a player who will be a DM to replace Fabinho, maybe some of the midfielders will be expected to play in different roles at different times in the game (as has been highlighted in other threads). Klopp appears happy to adjust his tactics to accommodate the strengths of different players. The adjustment to our style of play to allow Trent to contribute more offensively is an obvious recent example.
      I don't think we played with a pure DM before Fabinho arrived, I think it was more of a double pivot? Then we bought Fabinho and Klopp adjusted the style of play to accommodate him.
      Obviously Klopp will probably always play a 4-3-3 formation but he appears to have a lot of flexibility within this structure.

      If we'd got Caicedio or Lavia the style of play might be different but I can see us returning to a system that is a bit more of a double pivot with Gravenberch, Bajcetic, Jones, MacAllister, Endo and Thiago sitting deeper. Szobo, Elliot, maybe MacAllister in a more advanced position.
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,639 posts | 1822 
      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5720: Sep 05, 2023 11:17:57 am
      Seems like the plan next couple of windows will be to:

      1) Replace Salah when he presumably leaves next summer, ideally with a left footed RW since Nunez, Jota, Gakpo, and Diaz all play either centrally or on the left.

      2) Replace Matip.

      3) Contract extension for Trent (current deal expires 2025).

      4) Young understudy for Van Dijk at LCB (his contract expires 2025 when he'll be 34).

      5) Thiago replacement - ideally a young DM. This may not be necessary if Bajcetic, Jones, Elliott, and especially Gravenberch take big steps this season.

      6) If Kelleher opts to leave for first team football then a young backup GK is needed.



      Could add a RB & LB depending on the young lads on loan, and how well Kostas does this season, I like kostas but we could do better I think.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 13,394 posts | 3539 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5721: Sep 05, 2023 09:49:14 pm
      I’m gutted we didn’t go get Amrabat. Let’s see how Endo works out but I have a feeling Amrabat will work out the better.

      https://twitter.com/empireofthekop/status/1699162185627521456?s=12&t=_4uI6CiVRqge8WqM7F37Iw


      From this it looks like he has issues
      PolarBearRed
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 1,766 posts | 865 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5722: Sep 05, 2023 10:32:16 pm
      I have not watched him at Fiorentina, but I assume one of the questions that many will have about him is how will he fare at a team that has the ball much more and is looking to create much more? Watching Morocco at the World Cup, they were very organized defensively and knew when and how to counter in an effective way. They were not looking to keep the ball for extended periods of time and, if I remember correctly, they weren't asking of their backline and Amrabat to push high most of the time.

      With that said, F**k United. Who cares who they've got. The window is closed and now we've got to look ahead and work towards making Endo and the rest of our acquisitions perform the best they can which seems like something we've made a good start to.

      I also wouldn't put too much stock into Endo not starting last game. This often happens with new Klopp signings, especially in midfield. In for a couple of games right from the start then back on the bench for smaller cameos that get bigger with time until the player is 100% adapted to our way of playing.
      AlwaysTheKop
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 8,727 posts | 1534 
      • CHAMP19NS.
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5723: Sep 06, 2023 11:27:31 am
      Apparently we’re open to swapping Nunez for Felix next summer…  :lmao:

      Where do these cu*ts get the imagination to write this sh*t?  :lmao:
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 31,574 posts | 6457 
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5724: Sep 06, 2023 01:42:13 pm

      If he doesn't have a back injury now, he will have one after trying to carry that bunch of no accounts for a season.
      clint_call01
      • King Live Match Starter
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 11,745 posts | 3746 
      • Ynwa... lfc till I die !
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5725: Sep 06, 2023 02:02:51 pm
      Apparently we’re open to swapping Nunez for Felix next summer…  :lmao:

      Where do these cu*ts get the imagination to write this sh*t?  :lmao:

      From their arse.

      Since I think that next Summer, Salah won't be here. It is of utmost important to keep Diaz, Jota, Nunez and Gakpo.
      brezipool
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 9,639 posts | 1822 
      • Mon the Red Machine !
      Re: Scouting talk
      Reply #5726: Sep 07, 2023 09:47:22 am
      What we all already know.

      Quote
      "Liverpool were no longer in the market for another specialist holding midfielder after signing Endo last month. Klopp also has Mac Allister, Thiago and Stefan Bajcetic as contenders for the No.6 role and feels well-stocked."

      Quick Reply