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      Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters

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      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #100: Mar 24, 2021 01:21:10 pm
      Think the FBs had 25 assists between them 19/20 league and 8 so far this season think that's what is the problem

      It's part of the problem for sure.
      When I watch us play, the FB's are not pushing up as early as they usually do, because they are unsure of the CB's positioning.
      Add to that the fact Hendo (who usually supports TAA) and Gini (who usually supports Robbo) are either not there or (in Gini's case) getting pulled central.
      Remember TAA's 30-odd misplaced passes in one match?
      All those passes went to where Henderson would usually have been, and his cover was only off by a couple of yards, but it made a huge difference.

      When a system is as precise as ours (for instance, TAA ball up to Hendo, laid off to Salah, TAA overlaps, Salah tucks slightly inside TAA, Hendo backs as cover) being out by a small amount has a big knock on effect.

      So we are creating chances, but not finishing them, because the ball into the box, is angled slightly wrong, or into the wrong space.
      The forwards are getting the shots off, so the system is still working, but it's lacking the precision that it usually has.

      All of this is a knock on effect of our main CB's being injured.
      rossyred
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #101: Mar 24, 2021 06:47:52 pm
      It's part of the problem for sure.
      When I watch us play, the FB's are not pushing up as early as they usually do, because they are unsure of the CB's positioning.
      Add to that the fact Hendo (who usually supports TAA) and Gini (who usually supports Robbo) are either not there or (in Gini's case) getting pulled central.
      Remember TAA's 30-odd misplaced passes in one match?
      All those passes went to where Henderson would usually have been, and his cover was only off by a couple of yards, but it made a huge difference.

      When a system is as precise as ours (for instance, TAA ball up to Hendo, laid off to Salah, TAA overlaps, Salah tucks slightly inside TAA, Hendo backs as cover) being out by a small amount has a big knock on effect.

      So we are creating chances, but not finishing them, because the ball into the box, is angled slightly wrong, or into the wrong space.
      The forwards are getting the shots off, so the system is still working, but it's lacking the precision that it usually has.

      All of this is a knock on effect of our main CB's being injured.

      Yep spot on and that's what some don't get especially oppo fans and certain  media " its only two players" chestnut the loss of VVD with passing and pace and Joe to a lesser extent with his pace has had a massive ripple and doesn't just effect middle of defence but almost every other area as well
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #102: Mar 24, 2021 07:32:30 pm
      It's part of the problem for sure.
      When I watch us play, the FB's are not pushing up as early as they usually do, because they are unsure of the CB's positioning.
      Add to that the fact Hendo (who usually supports TAA) and Gini (who usually supports Robbo) are either not there or (in Gini's case) getting pulled central.
      Remember TAA's 30-odd misplaced passes in one match?
      All those passes went to where Henderson would usually have been, and his cover was only off by a couple of yards, but it made a huge difference.

      When a system is as precise as ours (for instance, TAA ball up to Hendo, laid off to Salah, TAA overlaps, Salah tucks slightly inside TAA, Hendo backs as cover) being out by a small amount has a big knock on effect.

      So we are creating chances, but not finishing them, because the ball into the box, is angled slightly wrong, or into the wrong space.
      The forwards are getting the shots off, so the system is still working, but it's lacking the precision that it usually has.

      All of this is a knock on effect of our main CB's being injured.

      Agree with the top 3 CB options missing there is a definite impact to the overall system, but in no way excuses the team not having scored a single goal from open play in the last 7 games at Anfield.
      heimdall
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #103: Mar 24, 2021 08:45:18 pm
      Agree with the top 3 CB options missing there is a definite impact to the overall system, but in no way excuses the team not having scored a single goal from open play in the last 7 games at Anfield.

      The forwards have been sh*t, 3% conversion rate is utter garbage at this level.
      Plus if our system is so fragile then it's not a good system, especially with the amount of injuries we always get.
      weareliverpool
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #104: Mar 24, 2021 08:50:56 pm
      What is so difficult to understand about FB's creating while midfielders hold and cover?

      Klopp has been very clear about this a number of times, and yet people still don't understand.

      All you have to do is watch the game, and look at how the 2 deepest midfielders slot in behind the FB when they get forwards.

      The central mid (or 2 if one FB stays deep) are there to win the ball back, which is why they sit a little deeper, outside the box.

      Klopp's way is to compress the play, and attack from the flanks, creating overloads with 2 wide players (1 forward, 1 FB) with one midfield player covering behind them (again to win the ball back, primarily).

      So you can literally draw a line going from one flank to the other, from each midfielder, and it will be straight (in normal attacking positions).

      How can anyone watch this team for 5 years and still not understand the most basic principle of how Klopp sets them up?

      Oh, sorry, yeah, another reason to bi*ch, whine, and target players for a slagging while pretending not to understand the system.
      It's either that or a complate lack of understanding of the system.

      How many assists have our full backs got this season?not half as many as last season i believe but it should't just be down to them,i understand the system Jürgen plays all to well thank you but that's no excuse for the poor return from our midfield which should be better.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #105: Mar 24, 2021 09:15:39 pm
      How many assists have our full backs got this season?not half as many as last season i believe but it should't just be down to them,i understand the system Jürgen plays all to well thank you but that's no excuse for the poor return from our midfield which should be better.

      Already answered.
      Read the top of this page.

      Then try and understand how we play.
      Our midfielders are primarily defensive.
      It sometimes looks like they're not because we compress the play so much, but that's what they are: backup behind the FB's, and ball winners when the opposition clear the ball.
      They only go into the box when another opponent drops deeper.
      We actually have the balance in compressed play almost perfect, with 5 attackers (plus 1 midfield if an opponent drops in to defend) and 4/5 defenders, 2/3 of which are there to win the ball back quickly and recycle it, plus 2 CB's.

      If you really understood the system instead of thinking it's just pressing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #106: Mar 24, 2021 09:18:44 pm
      Agree with the top 3 CB options missing there is a definite impact to the overall system, but in no way excuses the team not having scored a single goal from open play in the last 7 games at Anfield.

      I didn't offer any excuses; I listed reasons.

      Perhaps understand that if you put a mini engine into a ferrari, it's not going to win any races.
      That's what's happening with out CB's.
      heimdall
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #107: Mar 24, 2021 09:27:13 pm
      Already answered.
      Read the top of this page.

      Then try and understand how we play.
      Our midfielders are primarily defensive.
      It sometimes looks like they're not because we compress the play so much, but that's what they are: backup behind the FB's, and ball winners when the opposition clear the ball.
      They only go into the box when another opponent drops deeper.
      We actually have the balance in compressed play almost perfect, with 5 attackers (plus 1 midfield if an opponent drops in to defend) and 4/5 defenders, 2/3 of which are there to win the ball back quickly and recycle it, plus 2 CB's.

      If you really understood the system instead of thinking it's just pressing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

      Wouldn't the system be even better if the midfield could offer a bit more creativity, goals and assists. The system at the moment is too inflexible.
      weareliverpool
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #108: Mar 25, 2021 12:39:12 pm
      Already answered.
      Read the top of this page.

      Then try and understand how we play.
      Our midfielders are primarily defensive.
      It sometimes looks like they're not because we compress the play so much, but that's what they are: backup behind the FB's, and ball winners when the opposition clear the ball.
      They only go into the box when another opponent drops deeper.
      We actually have the balance in compressed play almost perfect, with 5 attackers (plus 1 midfield if an opponent drops in to defend) and 4/5 defenders, 2/3 of which are there to win the ball back quickly and recycle it, plus 2 CB's.

      If you really understood the system instead of thinking it's just pressing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

      I know the system and the way we play,are you happy with the overall contribution of our midfield?You can not rely on just the strikers to score goals because that's not enough and is proven this season with virtually no one else chipping in.
      weareliverpool
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #109: Mar 25, 2021 12:40:01 pm
      Wouldn't the system be even better if the midfield could offer a bit more creativity, goals and assists. The system at the moment is too inflexible.

      100% agree.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #110: Mar 25, 2021 02:05:51 pm
      I know the system and the way we play,are you happy with the overall contribution of our midfield?You can not rely on just the strikers to score goals because that's not enough and is proven this season with virtually no one else chipping in.

      You really don't.

      You're trying to reduce a complex issue to a binary soundbite, and that, in and of itself shows a lack of understanding.

      Klopps system has worked perfectly well since he's been here, focusing on one anomolous seasons, with a huge injury list is a mugs game, and indicative of a knee jerker.

      You'd do better looking at the "why" of this season rather than trying to target players to scapegoat, something your type always seems to do.
      Brian78
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #111: Mar 26, 2021 10:25:14 am
      You really don't.

      You're trying to reduce a complex issue to a binary soundbite, and that, in and of itself shows a lack of understanding.

      Klopps system has worked perfectly well since he's been here, focusing on one anomolous seasons, with a huge injury list is a mugs game, and indicative of a knee jerker.

      You'd do better looking at the "why" of this season rather than trying to target players to scapegoat, something your type always seems to do.

      Isnt your argument more or less saying our system breaks down with certain players out of the team, therefore its either a flawed system because it diesnt work without a certain player, and secondly if that system does not or cannot work without that player or players then why have we not implemented a second or third plan to balance that?
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #112: Mar 26, 2021 01:18:03 pm
      Isnt your argument more or less saying our system breaks down with certain players out of the team, therefore its either a flawed system because it diesnt work without a certain player, and secondly if that system does not or cannot work without that player or players then why have we not implemented a second or third plan to balance that?

      I'm saying that if 2 key cogs are missing, and the replacement cogs are slower, it has a knock on effect.

      The players that covered were intially taken out of another crucial position in front of them (Henderson and Fabinho).
      So another knock on effect.

      The new replacement cogs are not bedded in properly.

      No system can run as well, with the number of injuries we've had.
      Sure, on football manager, you just go out and buy more CB's around the same level as VVD, but in the real world, not even city can do that.

      We've also implemented new strategies/systems, but with a lack of training time, they're not going to work as well.
      So the answer becomes to have the CB's a yard or 2 deeper, which in turn means we are out of alignment, which in turn means the FB's are a second slower getting forwards.
      That second counts at the highest level.

      So, say Klopp says "I want midfielders in the box".
      Suddenly, there's no one in the ark, 5-10 yards from the box to pick up clearances, loose balls, or break up opposition attacks at the point of origin.
      Then we're left with Fabinho, and 2 CB's who are not as quick as we need, particularly Philips, who, although he's done well turns slower than that ship stuck in the Suez canal.

      OK, so we get the mids into the box, and ask the FB's to sit deeper, and come inside for cover.
      Now Salah and Mane have no support, get outnumbered and lose the ball.

      In short, the system is fine, and will be again once the players adapt, or we get others back from injury, BUT we are always going to be vulnerable and slightly out of sync, until VVD, Matip and Gomez come back.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #113: Mar 29, 2021 11:54:54 pm
      I'm saying that if 2 key cogs are missing, and the replacement cogs are slower, it has a knock on effect.

      The players that covered were intially taken out of another crucial position in front of them (Henderson and Fabinho).
      So another knock on effect.

      The new replacement cogs are not bedded in properly.

      No system can run as well, with the number of injuries we've had.
      Sure, on football manager, you just go out and buy more CB's around the same level as VVD, but in the real world, not even city can do that.

      We've also implemented new strategies/systems, but with a lack of training time, they're not going to work as well.
      So the answer becomes to have the CB's a yard or 2 deeper, which in turn means we are out of alignment, which in turn means the FB's are a second slower getting forwards.
      That second counts at the highest level.

      So, say Klopp says "I want midfielders in the box".
      Suddenly, there's no one in the ark, 5-10 yards from the box to pick up clearances, loose balls, or break up opposition attacks at the point of origin.
      Then we're left with Fabinho, and 2 CB's who are not as quick as we need, particularly Philips, who, although he's done well turns slower than that ship stuck in the Suez canal.

      OK, so we get the mids into the box, and ask the FB's to sit deeper, and come inside for cover.
      Now Salah and Mane have no support, get outnumbered and lose the ball.

      In short, the system is fine, and will be again once the players adapt, or we get others back from injury, BUT we are always going to be vulnerable and slightly out of sync, until VVD, Matip and Gomez come back.

      Got a bit of a headache reading all your posts on the roles of our midfielders. Reminded me of when I was about 12 and used to draw arrows all over the pitch for my tactics on championship manager.

      Let’s make things simple. Our front three were all goal machines a couple of years ago. They all reached good numbers. Our full backs made several assists each and provided the creativity for us. This took the burden off the midfield who then did the donkey work if you like. This donkey work was obviously also key to those five players performing at the levels they did.

      However. This season in particular both of our full backs appear to be burnt out. Their energy levels have dropped and their delivery has been poor. Salah has done well, but mane and bobby have been sh*te.  The opposition have also adapted to how we play, removing our strengths which is using the space. How many times have we played against bus parkers this season? And what are our average possession stats for this season? I’d guess high 60s, low 70s. We dominate most games we play. We’ve gone from an aggressive high press counter attacking team to a boring five yard sideways passing team who hasn’t got a clue how to break defences down.

      We therefore now rely more on the midfield and their roles change slightly. It’s quite naive of you to say to another poster ‘that’s not the role of our midfield’ for questioning why their stats are so bad regarding goals and assists. We all know how we usually set up and we all know how we normally play but I could sit here for hours and name dozens and dozens of examples of when one of our midfielders should have pulled the trigger but didn’t or when they chose the wrong pass in the final third. That’s got nothing to do with roles, that’s just basic football.

      If you’re on the edge of the box and have the opportunity to test the keeper then I don’t care if you’re Mo Salah, igor biscan or f**king phil babb. Have a shot!
      rossyred
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #114: Apr 01, 2021 02:27:38 pm
      Ramos out injured for a month according  to reports
      heimdall
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #115: Apr 01, 2021 02:31:58 pm
      Ramos out injured for a month according  to reports

      That is both good and bad, good from the point of view that he is still one of the best defenders in the world, bad that he won't be left on the pitch at the end of the second half wondering what just happened to his team!
      Brian78
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #116: Apr 01, 2021 03:32:04 pm
      Ramos out injured for a month according  to reports

      Legit or another Aprils first acting the clown?
      heimdall
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #117: Apr 01, 2021 04:11:22 pm
      Legit or another Aprils first acting the clown?

      If its April fools then its being reported in a lot of media sources
      Brian78
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #118: Apr 01, 2021 04:13:23 pm
      If its April fools then its being reported in a lot of media sources

      Media are a all c**ts who latch on to everything the other says.

      Ill believe all injury stories at 7pm on Tuesday when I see the official line ups
      FL Red
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #119: Apr 01, 2021 05:57:44 pm
      Media are a all c**ts who latch on to everything the other says.

      Ill believe all injury stories at 7pm on Tuesday when I see the official line ups

      https://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/2021/04/01/sergio-ramos-medical-report
      Brian78
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #120: Apr 01, 2021 06:12:24 pm
      FL Red
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #121: Apr 01, 2021 06:14:06 pm

      Ok, but it doesn't appear to be an April fools joke as you insinuated. Don't shoot the messenger, I was just providing proof from the horses mouth.
      Brian78
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #122: Apr 01, 2021 06:31:53 pm
      Ok, but it doesn't appear to be an April fools joke as you insinuated. Don't shoot the messenger, I was just providing proof from the horses mouth.

      I asked how genuine it was. I dont believe a word out of that clubs mouth. Im also highly dubious of the vast majority of media outlets, Id guess most ran with the story direct from Madrids site.

      I hope hes fit and plays Id get far more enjoyment beating them with him.on the pitch. And even more fun if Nats forehead had a meeting with ramos nose at a corner
      FATKOPITE10
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #123: Apr 01, 2021 07:31:49 pm
      They have played pretty well without him so it's not really as huge a deal that some are making it out to be
      heimdall
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #124: Apr 01, 2021 08:48:05 pm
      They have played pretty well without him so it's not really as huge a deal that some are making it out to be

      he's still the el capitan isn't he, Mr Madrid?

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