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      Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters

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      CT_LFC
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #92: Mar 23, 2021 03:25:11 pm
      Ive no respect for these, one of if not the biggest bunch of c**ts in football

      Agree, but by respect i mean not going into the tie thinking "they're not what they used to be so we should be able to beat them easily" but need to respect their experience and success in the competition.
      Brian78
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #93: Mar 23, 2021 06:39:44 pm
      Useless fact

      None of the other big 5 European clubs have a superior head to head against us

      Real, Barce AC Bayern and Ajax
      weareliverpool
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #94: Mar 24, 2021 06:57:37 am
      I'll repeat.
      3% conversion rate.

      This shows we are getting loads of chances, we are creating loads of chances, we are not converting those chances into goals.

      Saying "our midfield needs to chip in" displays a lack of understanding in our midfield's role(s).

      Look at the assists and goals from Thiago and Gini,you focus on our strikers who have roles in the team apart from scoring,their defensive duties are outstanding at times.Maddison and Fernandes are midfielders who score assist and defend as midfielders!I think we should expect more from both our midfielders.
      weareliverpool
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #95: Mar 24, 2021 07:06:25 am
      Agree, but by respect i mean not going into the tie thinking "they're not what they used to be so we should be able to beat them easily" but need to respect their experience and success in the competition.

      I don't think Jürgen and the boys should have any respect for Zidane or Real,the way they beat us in 2018 wasn't on the pitch it was disgusting dark arts tactics by Ramos who targeted our weak link in Karius and our strongest link in Mo,as for respecting them for experience and success what a load of bull,you play the team in front of you and your only as good as your last game,live in the present and not the past.I have no doubt Jürgen doesn't need to fire the boys up for this because they will be chewing at the bit to beat these cheating fuckers.I predict a win for football,a win for the reds.COYR
      clint_call01
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #96: Mar 24, 2021 07:16:52 am
      For my, it is payback time.

      We need at least make ourselves hard to beat and the team must give something to us to celebrate.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #97: Mar 24, 2021 11:45:38 am
      Look at the assists and goals from Thiago and Gini,you focus on our strikers who have roles in the team apart from scoring,their defensive duties are outstanding at times.Maddison and Fernandes are midfielders who score assist and defend as midfielders!I think we should expect more from both our midfielders.

      What is so difficult to understand about FB's creating while midfielders hold and cover?

      Klopp has been very clear about this a number of times, and yet people still don't understand.

      All you have to do is watch the game, and look at how the 2 deepest midfielders slot in behind the FB when they get forwards.

      The central mid (or 2 if one FB stays deep) are there to win the ball back, which is why they sit a little deeper, outside the box.

      Klopp's way is to compress the play, and attack from the flanks, creating overloads with 2 wide players (1 forward, 1 FB) with one midfield player covering behind them (again to win the ball back, primarily).

      So you can literally draw a line going from one flank to the other, from each midfielder, and it will be straight (in normal attacking positions).

      How can anyone watch this team for 5 years and still not understand the most basic principle of how Klopp sets them up?

      Oh, sorry, yeah, another reason to bi*ch, whine, and target players for a slagging while pretending not to understand the system.
      It's either that or a complate lack of understanding of the system.
      rossyred
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #98: Mar 24, 2021 12:22:13 pm
      What is so difficult to understand about FB's creating while midfielders hold and cover?

      Klopp has been very clear about this a number of times, and yet people still don't understand.

      All you have to do is watch the game, and look at how the 2 deepest midfielders slot in behind the FB when they get forwards.

      The central mid (or 2 if one FB stays deep) are there to win the ball back, which is why they sit a little deeper, outside the box.

      Klopp's way is to compress the play, and attack from the flanks, creating overloads with 2 wide players (1 forward, 1 FB) with one midfield player covering behind them (again to win the ball back, primarily).

      So you can literally draw a line going from one flank to the other, from each midfielder, and it will be straight (in normal attacking positions).

      How can anyone watch this team for 5 years and still not understand the most basic principle of how Klopp sets them up?

      Oh, sorry, yeah, another reason to bi*ch, whine, and target players for a slagging while pretending not to understand the system.
      It's either that or a complate lack of understanding of the system.

      Think the FBs had 25 assists between them 19/20 league and 8 so far this season think that's what is the problem
      lfc across the water
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #99: Mar 24, 2021 01:04:12 pm
      Quote from HamannsTheMan
      Looking past Madrid would be foolish. They’re an experienced side and still have good players. But it is a good time to play them without doubt.

      Yes they’re in the hunt for la liga still, but that doesn’t mean too much this season. They’re 6 points behind atletico who are bang average, did you watch them against Chelsea? Chelsea battered them both home and away.

      Barca are a mess and even they’re above Madrid. As soon as they came up against decent opposition in PSG look at what happened to them.

      All of atletico, Barca and Madrid are in transition right now and they’re not the same sides they were 3-4 seasons ago.

      You mention Brighton and Fulham, and we can also name another dozen teams if we wanted, but we are clueless against organised teams with deep defences who park the bus and let us have all the possession.

      European games are totally different though. Usually, you come up against teams who want to play football, and that suits us perfectly. That’s when we are at our best. The games are open and there’s more space. We will press teams into mistakes and counter using the channels getting the best out of Trent, robbo, mane and Salah. For madrid, we certainly have the legs on them and were much more aggressive and energetic than what they are.

      From the 7 sides we could have faced I would have ranked them in order of easiest games for us as: Porto, Dortmund, Madrid, Chelsea, PSG, Bayern, City.

      So to get number 3 on the list and then have then playing the winners of 1 and 4 is a fantastic draw for us.

      Real beat Atalanta home and away, we could only win the away leg. In 4 home games in Europe this season, we still haven't scored in the first half. And they were all home games against teams who as you say, suits us perfectly.

      Everyone wrote Porto off against Juventus. Porto are the only group runners up to make the quarter finals, so they're in it on merit. Dortmund are no mugs either. It took us 3 hours to beat them the last time.

      Quote from weareliverpool
      There was only Dortmund and Porto that would have been a better draw,i believe if our strikers start getting the service and start scoring we will get through,I've watched Madrid a lot this season and they are a more defensive team this season and are not scoring as freely they have done in recent seasons,take Benzema out of the game and we will win.

      From the odds I've seen, neither side are favourites. The tie could go either way. Take Benzema out and you have Isco, Asensio, Vinicius to face. Then when you've done that, there's Modric and Kroos to deal with. After that, Casemiro, Marcelo, possibly Hazard as well. Real are a quality side full of world class players who have seen it all and won it all, who haven't lost a game since January, and you really shouldn't want to face the club from a purely football perspective.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #100: Mar 24, 2021 01:21:10 pm
      Think the FBs had 25 assists between them 19/20 league and 8 so far this season think that's what is the problem

      It's part of the problem for sure.
      When I watch us play, the FB's are not pushing up as early as they usually do, because they are unsure of the CB's positioning.
      Add to that the fact Hendo (who usually supports TAA) and Gini (who usually supports Robbo) are either not there or (in Gini's case) getting pulled central.
      Remember TAA's 30-odd misplaced passes in one match?
      All those passes went to where Henderson would usually have been, and his cover was only off by a couple of yards, but it made a huge difference.

      When a system is as precise as ours (for instance, TAA ball up to Hendo, laid off to Salah, TAA overlaps, Salah tucks slightly inside TAA, Hendo backs as cover) being out by a small amount has a big knock on effect.

      So we are creating chances, but not finishing them, because the ball into the box, is angled slightly wrong, or into the wrong space.
      The forwards are getting the shots off, so the system is still working, but it's lacking the precision that it usually has.

      All of this is a knock on effect of our main CB's being injured.
      rossyred
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #101: Mar 24, 2021 06:47:52 pm
      It's part of the problem for sure.
      When I watch us play, the FB's are not pushing up as early as they usually do, because they are unsure of the CB's positioning.
      Add to that the fact Hendo (who usually supports TAA) and Gini (who usually supports Robbo) are either not there or (in Gini's case) getting pulled central.
      Remember TAA's 30-odd misplaced passes in one match?
      All those passes went to where Henderson would usually have been, and his cover was only off by a couple of yards, but it made a huge difference.

      When a system is as precise as ours (for instance, TAA ball up to Hendo, laid off to Salah, TAA overlaps, Salah tucks slightly inside TAA, Hendo backs as cover) being out by a small amount has a big knock on effect.

      So we are creating chances, but not finishing them, because the ball into the box, is angled slightly wrong, or into the wrong space.
      The forwards are getting the shots off, so the system is still working, but it's lacking the precision that it usually has.

      All of this is a knock on effect of our main CB's being injured.

      Yep spot on and that's what some don't get especially oppo fans and certain  media " its only two players" chestnut the loss of VVD with passing and pace and Joe to a lesser extent with his pace has had a massive ripple and doesn't just effect middle of defence but almost every other area as well
      CT_LFC
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #102: Mar 24, 2021 07:32:30 pm
      It's part of the problem for sure.
      When I watch us play, the FB's are not pushing up as early as they usually do, because they are unsure of the CB's positioning.
      Add to that the fact Hendo (who usually supports TAA) and Gini (who usually supports Robbo) are either not there or (in Gini's case) getting pulled central.
      Remember TAA's 30-odd misplaced passes in one match?
      All those passes went to where Henderson would usually have been, and his cover was only off by a couple of yards, but it made a huge difference.

      When a system is as precise as ours (for instance, TAA ball up to Hendo, laid off to Salah, TAA overlaps, Salah tucks slightly inside TAA, Hendo backs as cover) being out by a small amount has a big knock on effect.

      So we are creating chances, but not finishing them, because the ball into the box, is angled slightly wrong, or into the wrong space.
      The forwards are getting the shots off, so the system is still working, but it's lacking the precision that it usually has.

      All of this is a knock on effect of our main CB's being injured.

      Agree with the top 3 CB options missing there is a definite impact to the overall system, but in no way excuses the team not having scored a single goal from open play in the last 7 games at Anfield.
      heimdall
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #103: Mar 24, 2021 08:45:18 pm
      Agree with the top 3 CB options missing there is a definite impact to the overall system, but in no way excuses the team not having scored a single goal from open play in the last 7 games at Anfield.

      The forwards have been sh*t, 3% conversion rate is utter garbage at this level.
      Plus if our system is so fragile then it's not a good system, especially with the amount of injuries we always get.
      weareliverpool
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #104: Mar 24, 2021 08:50:56 pm
      What is so difficult to understand about FB's creating while midfielders hold and cover?

      Klopp has been very clear about this a number of times, and yet people still don't understand.

      All you have to do is watch the game, and look at how the 2 deepest midfielders slot in behind the FB when they get forwards.

      The central mid (or 2 if one FB stays deep) are there to win the ball back, which is why they sit a little deeper, outside the box.

      Klopp's way is to compress the play, and attack from the flanks, creating overloads with 2 wide players (1 forward, 1 FB) with one midfield player covering behind them (again to win the ball back, primarily).

      So you can literally draw a line going from one flank to the other, from each midfielder, and it will be straight (in normal attacking positions).

      How can anyone watch this team for 5 years and still not understand the most basic principle of how Klopp sets them up?

      Oh, sorry, yeah, another reason to bi*ch, whine, and target players for a slagging while pretending not to understand the system.
      It's either that or a complate lack of understanding of the system.

      How many assists have our full backs got this season?not half as many as last season i believe but it should't just be down to them,i understand the system Jürgen plays all to well thank you but that's no excuse for the poor return from our midfield which should be better.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #105: Mar 24, 2021 09:15:39 pm
      How many assists have our full backs got this season?not half as many as last season i believe but it should't just be down to them,i understand the system Jürgen plays all to well thank you but that's no excuse for the poor return from our midfield which should be better.

      Already answered.
      Read the top of this page.

      Then try and understand how we play.
      Our midfielders are primarily defensive.
      It sometimes looks like they're not because we compress the play so much, but that's what they are: backup behind the FB's, and ball winners when the opposition clear the ball.
      They only go into the box when another opponent drops deeper.
      We actually have the balance in compressed play almost perfect, with 5 attackers (plus 1 midfield if an opponent drops in to defend) and 4/5 defenders, 2/3 of which are there to win the ball back quickly and recycle it, plus 2 CB's.

      If you really understood the system instead of thinking it's just pressing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #106: Mar 24, 2021 09:18:44 pm
      Agree with the top 3 CB options missing there is a definite impact to the overall system, but in no way excuses the team not having scored a single goal from open play in the last 7 games at Anfield.

      I didn't offer any excuses; I listed reasons.

      Perhaps understand that if you put a mini engine into a ferrari, it's not going to win any races.
      That's what's happening with out CB's.
      heimdall
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #107: Mar 24, 2021 09:27:13 pm
      Already answered.
      Read the top of this page.

      Then try and understand how we play.
      Our midfielders are primarily defensive.
      It sometimes looks like they're not because we compress the play so much, but that's what they are: backup behind the FB's, and ball winners when the opposition clear the ball.
      They only go into the box when another opponent drops deeper.
      We actually have the balance in compressed play almost perfect, with 5 attackers (plus 1 midfield if an opponent drops in to defend) and 4/5 defenders, 2/3 of which are there to win the ball back quickly and recycle it, plus 2 CB's.

      If you really understood the system instead of thinking it's just pressing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

      Wouldn't the system be even better if the midfield could offer a bit more creativity, goals and assists. The system at the moment is too inflexible.
      weareliverpool
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #108: Mar 25, 2021 12:39:12 pm
      Already answered.
      Read the top of this page.

      Then try and understand how we play.
      Our midfielders are primarily defensive.
      It sometimes looks like they're not because we compress the play so much, but that's what they are: backup behind the FB's, and ball winners when the opposition clear the ball.
      They only go into the box when another opponent drops deeper.
      We actually have the balance in compressed play almost perfect, with 5 attackers (plus 1 midfield if an opponent drops in to defend) and 4/5 defenders, 2/3 of which are there to win the ball back quickly and recycle it, plus 2 CB's.

      If you really understood the system instead of thinking it's just pressing, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

      I know the system and the way we play,are you happy with the overall contribution of our midfield?You can not rely on just the strikers to score goals because that's not enough and is proven this season with virtually no one else chipping in.
      weareliverpool
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #109: Mar 25, 2021 12:40:01 pm
      Wouldn't the system be even better if the midfield could offer a bit more creativity, goals and assists. The system at the moment is too inflexible.

      100% agree.
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #110: Mar 25, 2021 02:05:51 pm
      I know the system and the way we play,are you happy with the overall contribution of our midfield?You can not rely on just the strikers to score goals because that's not enough and is proven this season with virtually no one else chipping in.

      You really don't.

      You're trying to reduce a complex issue to a binary soundbite, and that, in and of itself shows a lack of understanding.

      Klopps system has worked perfectly well since he's been here, focusing on one anomolous seasons, with a huge injury list is a mugs game, and indicative of a knee jerker.

      You'd do better looking at the "why" of this season rather than trying to target players to scapegoat, something your type always seems to do.
      Brian78
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #111: Mar 26, 2021 10:25:14 am
      You really don't.

      You're trying to reduce a complex issue to a binary soundbite, and that, in and of itself shows a lack of understanding.

      Klopps system has worked perfectly well since he's been here, focusing on one anomolous seasons, with a huge injury list is a mugs game, and indicative of a knee jerker.

      You'd do better looking at the "why" of this season rather than trying to target players to scapegoat, something your type always seems to do.

      Isnt your argument more or less saying our system breaks down with certain players out of the team, therefore its either a flawed system because it diesnt work without a certain player, and secondly if that system does not or cannot work without that player or players then why have we not implemented a second or third plan to balance that?
      Swab
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #112: Mar 26, 2021 01:18:03 pm
      Isnt your argument more or less saying our system breaks down with certain players out of the team, therefore its either a flawed system because it diesnt work without a certain player, and secondly if that system does not or cannot work without that player or players then why have we not implemented a second or third plan to balance that?

      I'm saying that if 2 key cogs are missing, and the replacement cogs are slower, it has a knock on effect.

      The players that covered were intially taken out of another crucial position in front of them (Henderson and Fabinho).
      So another knock on effect.

      The new replacement cogs are not bedded in properly.

      No system can run as well, with the number of injuries we've had.
      Sure, on football manager, you just go out and buy more CB's around the same level as VVD, but in the real world, not even city can do that.

      We've also implemented new strategies/systems, but with a lack of training time, they're not going to work as well.
      So the answer becomes to have the CB's a yard or 2 deeper, which in turn means we are out of alignment, which in turn means the FB's are a second slower getting forwards.
      That second counts at the highest level.

      So, say Klopp says "I want midfielders in the box".
      Suddenly, there's no one in the ark, 5-10 yards from the box to pick up clearances, loose balls, or break up opposition attacks at the point of origin.
      Then we're left with Fabinho, and 2 CB's who are not as quick as we need, particularly Philips, who, although he's done well turns slower than that ship stuck in the Suez canal.

      OK, so we get the mids into the box, and ask the FB's to sit deeper, and come inside for cover.
      Now Salah and Mane have no support, get outnumbered and lose the ball.

      In short, the system is fine, and will be again once the players adapt, or we get others back from injury, BUT we are always going to be vulnerable and slightly out of sync, until VVD, Matip and Gomez come back.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #113: Mar 29, 2021 11:54:54 pm
      I'm saying that if 2 key cogs are missing, and the replacement cogs are slower, it has a knock on effect.

      The players that covered were intially taken out of another crucial position in front of them (Henderson and Fabinho).
      So another knock on effect.

      The new replacement cogs are not bedded in properly.

      No system can run as well, with the number of injuries we've had.
      Sure, on football manager, you just go out and buy more CB's around the same level as VVD, but in the real world, not even city can do that.

      We've also implemented new strategies/systems, but with a lack of training time, they're not going to work as well.
      So the answer becomes to have the CB's a yard or 2 deeper, which in turn means we are out of alignment, which in turn means the FB's are a second slower getting forwards.
      That second counts at the highest level.

      So, say Klopp says "I want midfielders in the box".
      Suddenly, there's no one in the ark, 5-10 yards from the box to pick up clearances, loose balls, or break up opposition attacks at the point of origin.
      Then we're left with Fabinho, and 2 CB's who are not as quick as we need, particularly Philips, who, although he's done well turns slower than that ship stuck in the Suez canal.

      OK, so we get the mids into the box, and ask the FB's to sit deeper, and come inside for cover.
      Now Salah and Mane have no support, get outnumbered and lose the ball.

      In short, the system is fine, and will be again once the players adapt, or we get others back from injury, BUT we are always going to be vulnerable and slightly out of sync, until VVD, Matip and Gomez come back.

      Got a bit of a headache reading all your posts on the roles of our midfielders. Reminded me of when I was about 12 and used to draw arrows all over the pitch for my tactics on championship manager.

      Let’s make things simple. Our front three were all goal machines a couple of years ago. They all reached good numbers. Our full backs made several assists each and provided the creativity for us. This took the burden off the midfield who then did the donkey work if you like. This donkey work was obviously also key to those five players performing at the levels they did.

      However. This season in particular both of our full backs appear to be burnt out. Their energy levels have dropped and their delivery has been poor. Salah has done well, but mane and bobby have been sh*te.  The opposition have also adapted to how we play, removing our strengths which is using the space. How many times have we played against bus parkers this season? And what are our average possession stats for this season? I’d guess high 60s, low 70s. We dominate most games we play. We’ve gone from an aggressive high press counter attacking team to a boring five yard sideways passing team who hasn’t got a clue how to break defences down.

      We therefore now rely more on the midfield and their roles change slightly. It’s quite naive of you to say to another poster ‘that’s not the role of our midfield’ for questioning why their stats are so bad regarding goals and assists. We all know how we usually set up and we all know how we normally play but I could sit here for hours and name dozens and dozens of examples of when one of our midfielders should have pulled the trigger but didn’t or when they chose the wrong pass in the final third. That’s got nothing to do with roles, that’s just basic football.

      If you’re on the edge of the box and have the opportunity to test the keeper then I don’t care if you’re Mo Salah, igor biscan or F***ing phil babb. Have a shot!
      rossyred
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      Re: Reds drawn against Madrid in CL Quarters
      Reply #114: Apr 01, 2021 02:27:38 pm
      Ramos out injured for a month according  to reports

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