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      Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...

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      solodee
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #23: Nov 26, 2007 12:01:04 am
      The American way! (Do whatever you want because you can)

      To get rid of a Manager, try limiting his span of control to frustrate him; so start with Rick Parry? signing new players, then openly undermine his authority in the papers by telling his to focus on coaching the players that he already has.

      I think this ''Rafa Benitez Vs LFC American owners'' has very little to do with Rafa Benitez or the state of the LFC Squad and position; it probably has more to do with the abuse of power and the show of authority and maybe the notoriety of employing the ''The Infamous''
      redkenny
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #24: Nov 26, 2007 12:10:56 am
      Not sure what, if anything to read in to that.

      It doesn't say anything really does it. But at least it's communication albeit not very reassuring. I don't reckon I'll be getting a good night's kip tonight. Need more official info rather than putting up with doom and gloom from all the media.
      JD
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #25: Nov 26, 2007 12:11:31 am
      If Rafa feels like he can get players for free (and I am assuming he means Bosman deals for next summer) then surely the Americans should have the sense to listen to him?

      If Rick Parry is now in charge of 'identifying' our transfer targets (as the General Manager does in American sports) then we are completely fu**ed and he will be going.  That is exactly why he left Valencia because the Chairman was 'buying a lamp when he wanted a sofa' or something like that.

      Maybe that's why we've not heard from Parry today? He's hammering Football Manager 2008 on the PC - checking the stats.
      grandiaerbest
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #26: Nov 26, 2007 01:04:11 am
      The Times is reporting it as being inevitable:

      "In the best-case scenario, he may yet see out the remainder of the season before being sacked or leaving by mutual consent, but the word from within the club is that the American tycoons have lost all trust in him after recent challenges to their authority and that, despite his popularity with supporters, his dismissal is only a matter of time."

      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premier_league/liverpool/article2943513.ece

      Rafael Benitez end-game draws near

      Rafael BenÍtez will not survive the power struggle at Liverpool and is in danger of being dismissed as manager sooner rather than later, having alienated the club’s American owners during a week of intense political turmoil. In a joint statement last night, George Gillett Jr and Tom Hicks denied rumours that BenÍtez had already left the club, but they made little attempt to disguise the acrimony that appears to have left his position untenable in the long term.

      BenÍtez has no intention of resigning, but there is a realisation inside Anfield that his regime has reached the point of no return after a series of clashes with Gillett and Hicks, who completed a £415 million takeover in February, over the club’s transfer policy.

      In the best-case scenario, he may yet see out the remainder of the season before being sacked or leaving by mutual consent, but the word from within the club is that the American tycoons have lost all trust in him after recent challenges to their authority and that, despite his popularity with supporters, his dismissal is only a matter of time. Even in the unlikelihood that he apologises, it may only postpone the inevitable.

      It is an astonishing turn of events that seemed unimaginable barely a week ago, when BenÍtez rejected an informal approach from Bayern Munich. At that point, he talked of his desire to emulate Sir Alex Ferguson, the Manchester United manager, by staying in charge for 21 years, but his reign at Liverpool has since been unravelled by fallouts with Gillett and Hicks. Even close associates believe that he has made mistakes by picking fights with the pair and, in particular, by mocking their suggestion that he “focus on training and coaching” rather than try to dictate transfer policy.

      It is a situation that mirrors the departure of José Mourinho, BenÍtez’s arch rival, from Chelsea in September, with the Portuguese having been accused of sealing his fate at Stamford Bridge by challenging the authority of Roman Abramovich, the owner.

      Most recently, BenÍtez has taken umbrage at the insistence that all transfer negotiations be left to Rick Parry, the chief executive, and that no such talks should even take place until after their visit to Merseyside in mid-December. BenÍtez – eager to sign Ezequiel Marcelo Garay, the Racing Santander defender, and to tie up a permanent £17 million deal for Javier Mascherano – expressed at the proposal and has compounded matters by suggesting that the owners do not understand how the transfer market works in European football.

      After rumours swept Liverpool yesterday that BenÍtez had already left the club, Gillett and Hicks issued a statement claiming that there was “nothing new to say”, but they made no attempt to deny the tensions that exist or to give the manager any kind of public support. They said that transfer policy will be determined in mid-December, but there is a growing concern that BenÍtez may be gone before then. If not, that meeting has the makings of a showdown.
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

      This sounds very bad indeed.


      redkenny
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #27: Nov 26, 2007 01:17:06 am
      Oh. No.

      The more there is silence from our club and the more I hear or see the word 'inevitable', the more my optimism fades.
      srslfc
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #28: Nov 26, 2007 01:20:35 am
      Oh. No.

      The more there is silence from our club and the more I hear or see the word 'inevitable', the more my optimism fades.

      Same here Kenny. I said earlier that I think this will blow over but I really need to hear something more positive from the club just for my own sanity. I will refuse to believe that Hicks and Gillett will even consider sacking Rafa until I see it with my own eyes.
      solodee
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #29: Nov 26, 2007 01:25:32 am
      It's getting Ugly.

      It wouldn't be too much to ask right now for some calm between the two parties. Liverpool FC and the Fans can do without the squabbles. We need to focus on beating Porto. This is messed up.
      berrypool
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #30: Nov 26, 2007 03:23:29 am
      1- Managers cannot take jabs at club owners for the whole world to hear.  What is he thinking talking like that about the owners during a match review interview???
      2- These guys aren't some happy go lucky americans who had a few dollars to throw around at the poker table, these guys have been involved in BIG BIG sports dealings and have seen loads of success.  It really isn't too much to ask that rafa makes things happen with the big ass squad that he has. 

      I want harmony as much as anyone but I also think it is key that we eventually set something semi permenant on the field or locker room or trainging ground.  Sometimes it feels as if rafas rotation doesn't just happen on a game to game basis, but on a season to season basis.  I would love to see him concentrate on team morale and start focusing on consistant results, not the patchy stuff we have been seeing so much of.

      I agree with both sides but In the end rafa made things public and that was a big mistake on his part.  It makes us look like litte school girls arguing with ourselves.

      May I be Soooo bold to say Rafas dismissal would be quickly forgotten if a new manager brought us the league?
      The Fallen Soldier
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #31: Nov 26, 2007 09:00:00 am
      1- Managers cannot take jabs at club owners for the whole world to hear.  What is he thinking talking like that about the owners during a match review interview???
      2- These guys aren't some happy go lucky americans who had a few dollars to throw around at the poker table, these guys have been involved in BIG BIG sports dealings and have seen loads of success.  It really isn't too much to ask that rafa makes things happen with the big ass squad that he has. 

      I want harmony as much as anyone but I also think it is key that we eventually set something semi permenant on the field or locker room or trainging ground.  Sometimes it feels as if rafas rotation doesn't just happen on a game to game basis, but on a season to season basis.  I would love to see him concentrate on team morale and start focusing on consistant results, not the patchy stuff we have been seeing so much of.

      I agree with both sides but In the end rafa made things public and that was a big mistake on his part.  It makes us look like litte school girls arguing with ourselves.

      May I be Soooo bold to say Rafas dismissal would be quickly forgotten if a new manager brought us the league?

      In one respect I hear what you are saying but on the other I have every sympathy with Rafa. He has taken jabs at the Yanks because he feels his position is being undermined and by making statements publicly about the position he is in he gets the backing of the fans and shows the yanks "who btw dont know F**k all about football" where the support is. Personnally I dont think it was a mistake by Rafa to make it public on his part, as he felt he was being undermined and by doing this he knew he would get support from the fans. And lest be honest from what Im reading into it Rick Parry seems to have been made director of Football LMAO ROTFL. However I do feel this should have been left behind closed doors and I am in total agreement with what Roy Evans said last night on LFC TV.
      Glenbuck
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #32: Nov 26, 2007 09:47:34 am
      The reason behind this “falling out” seem as ever to be money orientated, all was well a week ago with Rafa planning swoops into the January transfer market and professing his desire to emulate the red nosed one at Old Trafford and stay at Anfield for twenty years or so, A week has passed and now after Rafa and the owners have thrown a few verbal hand grenades at each other we have arrived at the possibility of Rafa being sacked! I say sacked because I don’t think he will walk not because of money as in Mclarens case but because I believe he has too much pride and passion for the club.
      For me there is a much more worrying prospect lurking in the shadows and whilst Rafa leaving would be catastrophic to the the present and future development of the club we would of course have to move on as we have done countless times before when footballers and managers have departed for pastures new, No the real root of all this turmoil is of course money, worryingly we now have a reluctance by the owners to commit to any future signings instead they constantly remind us how much has been spent conveniently forgetting the money brought in through sales, we also have the hawking of the clubs assets around major U.S. banks as they try and acquire a supposed £600mil loan that they assured us we would never need because “we wouldn’t be going down the Glazier route”, in fact it has also been said the owners have fallen out because of the financial path we seem to be heading down and the only thing that seems to have drawn them closer is the possibility of bringing into line or even removing the one truthful voice within a club of yes men… Rafa.
      I am very concerned about the state of the club at the moment and not just because of Rafa’s possible demise, no what worries me more is the debt the owners now seem to be encouraging because if Rafa did go and new management takes over what would change for them?, they will still have to work under the same constraints that are in place at the moment and that’s why I find the link with Mourhino funny and disturbing at the same time, how the hell could they take on spend, spend, spend Jose and then tell him we have £3.50 in the transfer kitty! Also can you see Gillet and Hicks sitting with Parry trying to decide on a new manager who will be seen and not heard who would just be content coaching his players and then deciding on Mr Tact and diplomacy himself!
      I know its early days for our new owners but for me the euphoria of having shiny “new money” to spend has long since faded as we as fans and our beloved club seem to be heading for our own “winter of discontent”
      « Last Edit: Nov 26, 2007 09:55:27 am by Glenbuck »
      donrafael
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #33: Nov 26, 2007 11:03:35 am
      And Bascombe doing it on their behalf. Which makes it a bit more sickening.

      ...and Carra has a weekly coloumn... EVEN MORE SICKENING!!!
      donrafael
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #34: Nov 26, 2007 11:17:37 am
      If G&H allow Rafa to walk - or even contemplate sacking him... that will leave a massive... sorry let me correct that... A   M A S S I V E... hole in the club.

      Pepe Reina, Alvaro Arbeloa and Xabi Alonso and Fernando Torres (and Momo Sissoko) would all slap in transfer requests (some sooner some later) ask to return to Spain - they came here by the hand of Rafa.

      The Pako chapter was unsetlling, Rafa's exit would be the DEFINITIVE explosition.

      Then the back-room staff is mainly Spanish, all brought-in by Rafa. Goalkeeping, Fitness, Head of Technical Analysis... all are jobs done by expat Spaniards - who again would want to leave with LFC looking good on their individual CV's.

      Then the morale of the supporters would be very low, and I imagine VERY anti G&H... and even Parry wouldn't be able to avoid the backlash... with the Yanks being so remote, etc.

      ...and finally the rest of the players would break - the squad would be very, very divided (pro Rafa vs anti/indifferent)... it would all make for a terrible, terrible chapter in the history of LFC.

      We have gone so far down Rafa's road - we need to continue.

      I still cannot work out Rick Parry's silence - he is obviously shitting it - why not say anything???

      Either way Rick Parry is not doing his job properly  - he is the link man between Chairmen and "Coach" - he is the man that has to translate Rafa's demands... he is the man that must placate the Yanks if they get angry and ensure that they don't go public... IF he has lost control of either his relationship with the Yanks or his relationship with Rafa - or both... then this club needs a new CEO - and that is another nightmare scenario we could be facing.

      I think that Rafa's pay-off has to be a very, VERY considerable figure... otherwise Rafa would have walked by now. If anyone in Spain (Real Madrid, or more likely national squad/Fernando Hierro, ex-RM and Spain's national squad director of football and Rafa are good mates from their RM days...) comes in with a decent offer from here to the end of the season - I am sure he will go.

      I don't want to think negatively, just concluding from Rafa's career behaviour to date... unless the Yanks do a big u-turn - we will not be "Ra-Ra-Raffing" .... next season. I dearly hope I am wrong.

      COME ON RICK PARRY - DO YOUR JOB!!!!
      « Last Edit: Nov 26, 2007 11:20:36 am by donrafael »
      neilh2105
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #35: Nov 26, 2007 11:44:07 am
      oh that makes perfect sense


       get rid of Benitez as he's difficult to work with and replace him with that level headed diplomat Mourinho  :lmao:
      I find it very difficult to not be extremely abusive to-wards you, but I'll refrain!!!!  I wonder if a certain Russian oligog would agree with your views  In Liverpool we are staunch loyal supports!!! and retention of our manager is essential. YNWA  If you want a diplomat maybe we should recruit a candidate from the foreign office!!!
      CRK
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #36: Nov 26, 2007 11:51:02 am
      I find it very difficult to not be extremely abusive to-wards you, but I'll refrain!!!!  I wonder if a certain Russian oligog would agree with your views  In Liverpool we are staunch loyal supports!!! and retention of our manager is essential. YNWA  If you want a diplomat maybe we should recruit a candidate from the foreign office!!!

      His comment was sarcastic mate! He's taking the mick out of the owners, saying they'd get rid of Rafa because he won't bow down to them and then bring in someone who's even harder to work with!
      donrafael
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #37: Nov 26, 2007 12:16:40 pm
      I find it very difficult to not be extremely abusive to-wards you, but I'll refrain!!!!  I wonder if a certain Russian oligog would agree with your views  In Liverpool we are staunch loyal supports!!! and retention of our manager is essential. YNWA  If you want a diplomat maybe we should recruit a candidate from the foreign office!!!

      I think his houmour went flying over your head mate... you are both in agreement.

      Basically from what I can see on here, if Rafa was sacked there would be a Rafalution on the streets of Liverpool!

      POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

      (Tooting Red Popular Brigade!)
      DM Osbon
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #38: Nov 26, 2007 12:22:48 pm
      Remember nobody is bigger than the club...if the team produce the goods on the field then everything else is academic. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I personally don't think Rafa is in any danger of losing his job but the team must produce a performance against Porto this week to keep if nothing else a winning mentality going.

      Rafa & the squad are showing great signs of improvement in the Premiership this season...& the chairmen know that ;)
      donrafael
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #39: Nov 26, 2007 12:28:28 pm
      Remember nobody is bigger than the club...if the team produce the goods on the field then everything else is academic. Sorry if that sounds harsh, I personally don't think Rafa is in any danger of losing his job but the team must produce a performance against Porto this week to keep if nothing else a winning mentality going.

      Rafa & the squad are showing great signs of improvement in the Premiership this season...& the chairmen know that ;)

      So what happens if we fail to win against either Porto or Marseille - is that it then?

      I was of the understanding that the Prem was the priority... then Rafa's job should be safe until early May then!

      This "sack" culture together with the "results now, now"... being injected into our game by the money-men and tv pundits... is nothing short of a disgrace.

      Shankley and Paisley must be turning in their graves.

      I saw a Sky panel on Saturday morning all predict that Rafa was on thin ice and would be sacked any day... and they all predicted a draw versus Newcastle too... the stupid tw*ts!!! (Charlie Nicholas was the leader of the pack and deserves a good kicking if he ever shows his face on Merseyside).
      DM Osbon
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #40: Nov 26, 2007 12:36:33 pm
      So what happens if we fail to win against either Porto or Marseille - is that it then?
      No I don't as I have said previous...
      I personally don't think Rafa is in any danger of losing his job

      « Last Edit: Nov 26, 2007 12:44:18 pm by DM Osbon »
      CRK
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #41: Nov 26, 2007 12:54:21 pm
      No I don't as I have said previous...
      I personally don't think Rafa is in any danger of losing his job


      I don't think this sacking culture is going to bleed it's way into our club! The only thing I'm worried about is Rafa tiring of having no influence on transfer dealings and leaving the club! I couldn't see him doing that any time during the season though, it would be after the last league game and then the finals we have reached ::) :P
      Glenbuck
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #42: Nov 26, 2007 02:34:56 pm
      Well Rafa certainly feels he was treading on thin ice if todays Echo is anything to go by, i think it shows the mans love for the club that he would swallow his pride and backtrack lets hope it appeases the owners.

      Rafa Benitez seeks a truce with American owners

      Nov 26 2007 EXCLUSIVE by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

      RAFA BENITEZ is ready to hold out an olive branch to Liverpool's owners - but his gesture of reconciliation may have come too late to save his job.
      Though sources close to Tom Hicks and George Gillett insist no decision has been made to sack Benitez, the Americans have refused to deny speculation it is only a matter of time before the manager is forced out.
      Despite the pressure, Benitez is still planning for the future and remains hopeful of landing the league title he knows Liverpool and the fans crave.
      A source close to Benitez said: “Rafa loves it at Liverpool. He loves the people of the city, he loves the fans and he loves the club. All he wants is what’s best for the fans - he gets frustrated when he feels he’s not able to do that.
      “But he is happy with Tom and George owning the club and he has enjoyed working with them since he came and he has no problem working with Rick (Parry) – all he wants is to be able to continue the job that he’s started so he can continue improving the squad in a bid to deliver the title he knows Tom, George and Rick want just as badly as he does.
      “The manager has got a few transfers that he wants to get done, one in January and two Bosmans in the summer but it looks like he is going to miss out on the first one now.
      “That frustrated him because the first one was a centre half, a position he feels we really need back-up in. The frustration stems from the fact that communication has been so difficult with everyone being so far apart and in different time zones. But the fans should be reassured Rafa has no plans of walking away. He loves it here and his family are settled on Merseyside.
      “He always describes his children as ‘Scousers’ and that makes him really proud. And the fact that the fans have backed him so much only makes him want success even more for them. Even when he guided Valencia to their first Spanish league title in 31 years their fans did not sing his name but the Liverpool fans sing it every single game.
      “Rafa only wants to work for Liverpool. It wasn’t that long ago that Rafa was thanking Tom, George and Rick for the work that they had done to bring Fernando Torres to Liverpool. He is still grateful for that and hopes that there has been no lasting damage done.”
      “He is hoping this situation can be resolved.In a statementHicks and Gillett said: “Despite speculation in Sunday’s newspapers, there is nothing new to say. We had a good win yesterday and we have got some very important games coming up. “Both of us, together with chief executive Rick Parry, plan to meet with Rafa when we come over mid-December to make decisions on the team’s requirements at that time.”
      CRK
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #43: Nov 26, 2007 02:38:31 pm
      Well Rafa certainly feels he was treading on thin ice if todays Echo is anything to go by, I think it shows the mans love for the club that he would swallow his pride and backtrack lets hope it appeases the owners.

      Rafa Benitez seeks a truce with American owners

      Nov 26 2007 EXCLUSIVE by Tony Barrett, Liverpool Echo

      RAFA BENITEZ is ready to hold out an olive branch to Liverpool's owners - but his gesture of reconciliation may have come too late to save his job.
      Though sources close to Tom Hicks and George Gillett insist no decision has been made to sack Benitez, the Americans have refused to deny speculation it is only a matter of time before the manager is forced out.
      Despite the pressure, Benitez is still planning for the future and remains hopeful of landing the league title he knows Liverpool and the fans crave.
      A source close to Benitez said: “Rafa loves it at Liverpool. He loves the people of the city, he loves the fans and he loves the club. All he wants is what’s best for the fans - he gets frustrated when he feels he’s not able to do that.
      “But he is happy with Tom and George owning the club and he has enjoyed working with them since he came and he has no problem working with Rick (Parry) – all he wants is to be able to continue the job that he’s started so he can continue improving the squad in a bid to deliver the title he knows Tom, George and Rick want just as badly as he does.
      “The manager has got a few transfers that he wants to get done, one in January and two Bosmans in the summer but it looks like he is going to miss out on the first one now.
      “That frustrated him because the first one was a centre half, a position he feels we really need back-up in. The frustration stems from the fact that communication has been so difficult with everyone being so far apart and in different time zones. But the fans should be reassured Rafa has no plans of walking away. He loves it here and his family are settled on Merseyside.
      “He always describes his children as ‘Scousers’ and that makes him really proud. And the fact that the fans have backed him so much only makes him want success even more for them. Even when he guided Valencia to their first Spanish league title in 31 years their fans did not sing his name but the Liverpool fans sing it every single game.
      “Rafa only wants to work for Liverpool. It wasn’t that long ago that Rafa was thanking Tom, George and Rick for the work that they had done to bring Fernando Torres to Liverpool. He is still grateful for that and hopes that there has been no lasting damage done.”
      “He is hoping this situation can be resolved.In a statementHicks and Gillett said: “Despite speculation in Sunday’s newspapers, there is nothing new to say. We had a good win yesterday and we have got some very important games coming up. “Both of us, together with chief executive Rick Parry, plan to meet with Rafa when we come over mid-December to make decisions on the team’s requirements at that time.”


      I'm happy Rafa seems to be swallowing his pride but something should be given out in a statement saying Rafa is safe and all is well! Parry is a shitbag for hiding and letting it get this far!
      donrafael
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #44: Nov 26, 2007 02:41:34 pm
      My god I am beginning to think the fall out is actually between Parry and Benitez - why the hell would this have gone this far without a word from the club's CEO.

      If so, Rick Parry you are a fake... and the fans will let you know.

      If not - get on a microphone somewhere, or speak to a journo somewhere and let us know the views of the man that brought the Yanks to us in the first place.

      COME ON, DO IT!!!!!
      EddieC
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      Re: Rafa and Chairmen blow out continues...
      Reply #45: Nov 26, 2007 02:42:54 pm
      I am really not liking Tony Barrett TBH, I have always relied on the Echo for the facts when it comes to all things Liverpool, with him writing the articles we get just the same sh*te as any other paper. This latest piece is just pure speculation once again, not one genuine source.

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