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      LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss

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      FL Red
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #50: Apr 29, 2021 03:12:57 pm
      That doesn't go well with the net spenders, though. Same hypocrites crying crocodile tears days earlier calling the owners greedy yet all they care about is higher spend.

      I'm not sure how you are comparing the two? Greedy owners can still spend money. Just like owners that aren't greedy (would there be any like that?) can also not spend money. I think you need to go back to the drawing board for an analogy that makes more sense.

      I don't think it's wrong for people to want us to spend (wisely) on new players. And I don't know that there's anyone that's asking for us to spend like drunken sailors...but after Virgil and Allison (funded by Coutinho's sale by the way) we've not really made any big purchases. An occasional outlay on a quality player would be nice. It would be nice to be able to actually consider buying a Haaland or an Mbappe should the opportunity arise. 

      I'm not sure why there are people that still don't get that we sell to spend. It's been pretty much beat into the ground and proven to an inch of it's life. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that...but people that cling to that like the gospel also shouldn't complain so much when we can't compete year in and year out with teams that don't necessarily hold to that.
      L4.19Times
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #51: Apr 29, 2021 03:17:07 pm
      I'm not sure how you are comparing the two? Greedy owners can still spend money. Just like owners that aren't greedy (would there be any like that?) can also not spend money. I think you need to go back to the drawing board for an analogy that makes more sense.

      I don't think it's wrong for people to want us to spend (wisely) on new players. And I don't know that there's anyone that's asking for us to spend like drunken sailors...but after Virgil and Allison (funded by Coutinho's sale by the way) we've not really made any big purchases. An occasional outlay on a quality player would be nice. It would be nice to be able to actually consider buying a Haaland or an Mbappe should the opportunity arise. 

      I'm not sure why there are people that still don't get that we sell to spend. It's been pretty much beat into the ground and proven to an inch of it's life. And there's nothing necessarily wrong with that...but people that cling to that like the gospel also shouldn't complain so much when we can't compete year in and year out with teams that don't necessarily hold to that.

      I'm not sure it's a sell to buy but it's certainly we wouldn't buy if we didn't sell
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #52: Apr 29, 2021 03:50:05 pm
      It’s simple


      The club spends money than it earns


      It’s a self sufficient model that the club has always followed , it’s why the owners looked to increase the level of commercial income to allow further money to be spent on players


      The transfer budget will be included in the outgoings - player sales will help increase the level of money the manager can spend


      It’s all part of the model the owners work to and that the manager knows we work too


      Players like Mbappe and Haaland are just not in scope for us - we won’t have £200mil to spend on one single player unless a big player leaves - that’s just a fact hence why the club looks to get the £200mil player before he develops into one - Mané etc show that
      Swab
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #53: Apr 29, 2021 05:32:22 pm
      I'm not sure it's a sell to buy but it's certainly we wouldn't buy if we didn't sell

      Isn't that the same as all clubs?
      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Toshack
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #54: Apr 29, 2021 06:18:06 pm
      It’s simple


      The club spends money than it earns


      It’s a self sufficient model that the club has always followed

      Yes but it's now a broken model

      Abramovitch broke it

      Humpty Dumpty UEFA tried to put it back together again with FFP

      Manchester City broke the model again, swept up all the broken bits, and put them in an atom crusher just to make sure UEFA couldn't put it back together again

      Hence the aborted (for-the-moment) Super League

      Nobody can reasonably blame FSG (and other owners) for exploring the Super League option as Manchester City's lawyers have smashed up the business models of LFC, Manchester United, Arsenal, Spurs (and even in more recent times, Chelsea) when they took on UEFA and won. OK Super League was badly handled from a PR point of view, and had design flaws, but there is a clear rationale for exploring it.

      FSG now have 3 options:

      1) Sit down with Perez et al and get a better version of Super League thrashed out, one with promotion and relegation to keep the natives happy. What about play-offs? Fancy some play-offs? Imagine all that lovely TV money when Borussia Dortmund play Forest Green in the final.

      2) Sit back and accept that LFC cannot compete with clubs whose owners have a bottomless pit of cash.

      3) Sell the club to such an owner, who let's face it is hardly likely to be everyone's favourite cup of tea, and the UK gov may even possibly take steps to shut down this 3rd option going forward anyway.

      If that leaves us with option 1, LFC fans will protest

      If that leaves us with option 2, LFC fans will protest

      And if option 3 isn't shut down and comes to pass, LFC fans will protest

      Once FFP got put in the atom crusher, there is now no outcome for this club that won't cause large parts of the fanbase to be up in arms, possibly permanently.
      ruthcity
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #55: Apr 29, 2021 07:10:40 pm
      Living in me own fantasy world, the owners should bankroll player acquisitions. Buy up all the best players while getting rid of useless players - perpetual net spend deficit, the larger the deficit the better, till they become broke. No we should not have owners who will go broke. These would be deemed unsuitable owners for us. They lack ambition if that's the case.

      Me fantasy! Me still searching for the perfect owner.
      Mmmklopp
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #56: Apr 29, 2021 08:18:54 pm
      Living in me own fantasy world, the owners should bankroll player acquisitions. Buy up all the best players while getting rid of useless players - perpetual net spend deficit, the larger the deficit the better, till they become broke. No we should not have owners who will go broke. These would be deemed unsuitable owners for us. They lack ambition if that's the case.

      Me fantasy! Me still searching for the perfect owner.

      Or have the worst defensive crisis remembered for any club and respond by signing Kabak from a team that one once all season and a guy from League Two that can't get near a start at Liverpool FC because he's clearly not good enough
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #57: Apr 30, 2021 01:04:17 pm
      Yes but it's now a broken model

      Abramovitch broke it

      Humpty Dumpty UEFA tried to put it back together again with FFP

      Manchester City broke the model again, swept up all the broken bits, and put them in an atom crusher just to make sure UEFA couldn't put it back together again

      Hence the aborted (for-the-moment) Super League

      Nobody can reasonably blame FSG (and other owners) for exploring the Super League option as Manchester City's lawyers have smashed up the business models of LFC, Manchester United, Arsenal, Spurs (and even in more recent times, Chelsea) when they took on UEFA and won. OK Super League was badly handled from a PR point of view, and had design flaws, but there is a clear rationale for exploring it.

      FSG now have 3 options:

      1) Sit down with Perez et al and get a better version of Super League thrashed out, one with promotion and relegation to keep the natives happy. What about play-offs? Fancy some play-offs? Imagine all that lovely TV money when Borussia Dortmund play Forest Green in the final.

      2) Sit back and accept that LFC cannot compete with clubs whose owners have a bottomless pit of cash.

      3) Sell the club to such an owner, who let's face it is hardly likely to be everyone's favourite cup of tea, and the UK gov may even possibly take steps to shut down this 3rd option going forward anyway.

      If that leaves us with option 1, LFC fans will protest

      If that leaves us with option 2, LFC fans will protest

      And if option 3 isn't shut down and comes to pass, LFC fans will protest

      Once FFP got put in the atom crusher, there is now no outcome for this club that won't cause large parts of the fanbase to be up in arms, possibly permanently.

      Option 2 means trying to compete with them how we have done so, so far. No protests over that option, cos we can still challenge them manc tw*ts.
      EarnedIt6Times
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #58: Apr 30, 2021 01:42:33 pm
      Option 2 means trying to compete with them how we have done so, so far. No protests over that option, cos we can still challenge them manc tw*ts.

      Depends what you call a protest.

      OK, nobody's organising marches from Jarrow to the Pier Head to moan about LFC's uncompetitiveness in the league this year but you can already hear Gary Neville speaking out of the mouths of Liverpool supporters: "Klopp's lost it", "He's taken us as far as he can" etc etc, and that's not from some gloryhunting kids from Singapore, that's from lads who would put themselves forward as hardcore Reds. It's embarrassing.
      Swab
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #59: Apr 30, 2021 01:43:16 pm
      A couple or so seasons ago, LFC accounts showed around £50 million set aside "to offset against future losses" (for tax purposes).

      Last years accounts show a £50 million revolving facility, which I took to be a credit facility being rolled over, but might actually be the £50m set aside.

      I need to go back and have another look and maybe get a mate who is a corporate accountant on the case, if he has time.

      EarnedIt6Times
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #60: Apr 30, 2021 02:25:47 pm
      A couple or so seasons ago, LFC accounts showed around £50 million set aside "to offset against future losses" (for tax purposes).

      Last years accounts show a £50 million revolving facility, which I took to be a credit facility being rolled over, but might actually be the £50m set aside.

      I need to go back and have another look and maybe get a mate who is a corporate accountant on the case, if he has time.

      'Set aside'? Meaning a provision?

      You can't book provisions against future operating losses. It's not allowed.

      A credit facility wouldn't even get booked in the accounts. It's a sort of opportunity for a loan if we fancied taking out a loan. It'd just be a note in the accounts somewhere: "If we need to borrow £50m, Huyton Red is our man"
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #61: Apr 30, 2021 03:25:11 pm
      Depends what you call a protest.

      OK, nobody's organising marches from Jarrow to the Pier Head to moan about LFC's uncompetitiveness in the league this year but you can already hear Gary Neville speaking out of the mouths of Liverpool supporters: "Klopp's lost it", "He's taken us as far as he can" etc etc, and that's not from some gloryhunting kids from Singapore, that's from lads who would put themselves forward as hardcore Reds. It's embarrassing.

      Those type of outbursts are more to with performances than actually meaning it. If everything was hunky dory, like the past two seasons, non of the above gets mentioned. Have to remember the past 30 years of constant getting so close to the league but ultimately failing has created a pessimistic and doom-mongering mentality in our support. Watching us give up the title so meekly and having to watch it on the box has led to a lot of people feeling pissed off. Look at the apathy for the game on Sunday.
      Swab
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #62: Apr 30, 2021 03:33:41 pm
      'Set aside'? Meaning a provision?

      You can't book provisions against future operating losses. It's not allowed.

      A credit facility wouldn't even get booked in the accounts. It's a sort of opportunity for a loan if we fancied taking out a loan. It'd just be a note in the accounts somewhere: "If we need to borrow £50m, Huyton Red is our man"

      And yet that's exactly what it said in the accounts, and the notes.

      Since KPMG  use special exemptions and instruments, including foreign currency hedging, and the holding company is registered in Delaware, you can take it up with them.

      Here you go, both the revolving credit facility and unused tax losses are in this set for starters, along with deferred taxes
      I'm sure there are others, but I don't have time to go through them now.

      https://d3j2s6hdd6a7rg.cloudfront.net/uploads/Annual_report_for_the_period_ended_31_May_2018.pdf
      « Last Edit: Apr 30, 2021 03:44:25 pm by Swab »
      lfc across the water
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #63: May 09, 2021 08:59:13 pm
      Quote from EarnedIt6Times
      Yes but it's now a broken model

      Abramovitch broke it

      Humpty Dumpty UEFA tried to put it back together again with FFP

      Manchester City broke the model again, swept up all the broken bits, and put them in an atom crusher just to make sure UEFA couldn't put it back together again

      Hence the aborted (for-the-moment) Super League

      Nobody can reasonably blame FSG (and other owners) for exploring the Super League option as Manchester City's lawyers have smashed up the business models of LFC, Manchester United, Arsenal, Spurs (and even in more recent times, Chelsea) when they took on UEFA and won.

      Once FFP got put in the atom crusher, there is now no outcome for this club that won't cause large parts of the fanbase to be up in arms, possibly permanently.

      FFP is alive and kicking. City have been found guilty twice, and punished twice. You may not consider it a strong enough punishment, (and you would be right) but they have been punished twice. If UEFA didn't botch up their own investigation, they would now be halfway through their European ban.

      The Super League is torn up and in a crusher instead. It had no chance of ever seeing the field of play.
      ORCHARD RED
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #64: May 11, 2021 12:40:50 pm
      FFP is alive and kicking. City have been found guilty twice, and punished twice. You may not consider it a strong enough punishment, (and you would be right) but they have been punished twice. If UEFA didn't botch up their own investigation, they would now be halfway through their European ban.

      The Super League is torn up and in a crusher instead. It had no chance of ever seeing the field of play.

      City about to win the competition that they should be banned from playing in this season, tells you all you need to know about FFP!
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #65: May 11, 2021 01:44:30 pm
      City about to win the competition that they should be banned from playing in this season, tells you all you need to know about FFP!


      Was the issue not FFP but UEFA processes and time lines


      City were shown to have broken FFP
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #66: May 11, 2021 03:02:55 pm

      Was the issue not FFP but UEFA processes and time lines


      City were shown to have broken FFP

      Well we all know how much is a joke UEFA are.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #67: May 11, 2021 03:19:43 pm
      Well we all know how much is a joke UEFA are.


      Most certainly is the truth
      EarnedIt6Times
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      Re: LFC Accounts 2019/20 - £46M loss
      Reply #68: May 11, 2021 05:18:25 pm

      Was the issue not FFP but UEFA processes and time lines

      City were shown to have broken FFP

      I hate UEFA, have done since staging a certain final at an unfit-for-purpose Heysel, but in this instance I'm not sure there was much they could have done

      UEFA aren't the fraud squad, they don't have a warrant to search the world's email servers looking for Manchester-City-related financial shenanigans

      It's actually impossible to prove City circumvented FFP by legal means. The only way to do it is to hack into their emails illegally.

      The only person who has been punished for all this is the whistleblower, who I believe is still rotting in a Portuguese jail. So much for justice.

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