Trending Topics

      Next match: Man Utd v LFC [Premier League] Sun 24th Oct @ 4:30 pm
      Old Trafford

      Today is the 22nd of October and on this date LFC's match record is P30 W13 D8 L9

      LFC supporters board to be created

      Read 1118 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 26,343 posts | 4474 
      LFC supporters board to be created
      May 20, 2021 05:35:28 pm
      Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa......

      James Pearce on Twitter: "A good week for Liverpool just got better. FSG have agreed to fan representation on the board following talks with @spiritofshankly. The owners have also vowed to cover the costs of the Super League debacle rather than burden the club with them.
      « Last Edit: May 21, 2021 03:32:04 pm by JD »
      ToshackKeeganOneNil
      • Forum Peter Beardsley
      • **

      • 178 posts | 38 
      Re: Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #1: May 20, 2021 09:41:52 pm
      Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa......

      James Pearce on Twitter: "A good week for Liverpool just got better. FSG have agreed to fan representation on the board following talks with @spiritofshankly. The owners have also vowed to cover the costs of the Super League debacle rather than burden the club with them.

      It will be very interesting to see exactly what they are proposing. Have any details been released?
      CT_LFC
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 4,393 posts | 931 
      Re: Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #2: May 20, 2021 11:00:37 pm
      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Toshack
      • ***

      • 274 posts | 72 
      Re: Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #3: May 21, 2021 01:48:25 pm

      Be interesting to see what comes out of it.

      Seen some comments elsewhere from someone I associate with SoS which might indicate that SoS (or at least this individual) are claiming this to be a lot bigger than it is, which could leave them with egg on their faces, but we'll see. Sounds like it's still being worked on.

      "Representation" could and will mean different things to dfferent people. One side could claim that it means having control over a decision making process. The other side could claim it means just being allowed to go wahwahwah we don't like this and have a boardroom strop but ultimately have no power to control what goes on. "Representation" would tend to suggest the latter to me: that fans are allowed to put across their point of view: that's it. Let's see what it does actually mean in legal terms when both the club and SoS have come to a final agreed position, or what they THINK they've agreed to.

      There is a concept in contractual law called 'consideration' which basically means you have to pay something (the "consideration" i.e. money) in order to get something. This doesn't look like any sort of contract to me. I don't sense there will be money changing hands. The supporters will get something for nothing, which sounds great in theory but in legal terms it may mean that it it worthless to a degree. If one party backs out then there is no opportunity to sue for breach of contract, because there was never a contract in the first place. If you bought next door's sister for a camel, the camel is the consideration, there's a contract. If you didn't pay the camel, there is no contract and you don't own next door's sister, and rightly so, you shouldn't be owning next door's sister in Liverpool, this isn't the Sahara desert you know.

      That leaves us in the realm of company law. The LFC statement on LFCTV mentions enshrining this agreement in the 'articles of association' of LFC (sort of internal rules regarding shareholders, directors, meetings etc), which sounds great on the face of it, but the articles of association are controlled by the board of directors. Just as the board of directors are free to give the fans something for nothing, they are free to take it away again, because they are the board. They could give the fans something on Monday and then just take it away again on Tuesday, so as a form of comfort blanket for the fanbase, it's actually pretty worthless, possibly even totally worthless depending how LFC's board and shareholders are made up.

      Articles require 75% control of the board to change them (company law in UK). The fanbase representatives would therefore need at least 25% voting rights to block having their new 'powers' being taken away from them again. As far as I know, the fanbase representatives have 0.00% voting rights. So if FSG decided at any point that the fanbase representatives are becoming a gigantic pain in the arse, they can just cut all this consultation stuff almost at the drop of a hat. They'd have to call a special board meeting but then all they have to do is vote to change the articles again to get rid of the fanbase consultation stuff. Bang. It's gone again, just like that.

      So "legally binding" sounds like a comfort on the face of it, but if the board took away the fans' input again, as they can, leaving the fans with nothing again, then that would also be legally binding.

      For me the only way to 'enshrine' anything into the articles of association would be to gain the necessary blocking vote on the board and I'd imagine that would require the fans getting 25%, which means paying consideration for it. So LFC fans would have to find a lot of money, or camels if FSG accept camels, and FSG would have to agree to cede 25% of the shareholding to the fans. Seems extraordinarily unlikely that this would ever take place without UK government legislation, and as a general principle UK law can't be applied retrospectively so I just don't see that any current owner of a football club could be forced to sell part of their shareholding. The UK government could legislate to make it a rule that any NEW purchase of a football club must allot a certain portion of the shares to fan representative bodies, but I am almost as sure as a sure thing that they could not apply this law retrospectively. That would go against fundamental principles of UK law. So I firmly believe FSG could not be forced to sell 25% of their shares to the fans; not even by the government.
      ruthcity
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,381 posts | 1001 
      Re: Re: NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC
      Reply #4: May 21, 2021 03:12:50 pm

      If you read carefully, it says “supporters’ board” and not a board representation on the Liverpool FC board. I almost thought this was the case before looking at the details. This means there’s no board seat and voting rights. Nonetheless, they’ve created an invaluable feedback channel to listen and engage fan groups.

      “deliver meaningful fan representation at main board and executive levels”

      “enable deeper consultation with supporters on fan-facing strategic decisions” via a “consultation process”

      “The Supporters Board will hold regular meetings with the club and the chair will be invited to attend LFC’s main board meetings when fan-facing strategic matters arise.”

      In the article’s own words, it’s essentially a more formalised feedback channel and engagement with fan groups. At least they’ll have to listen more to us fans. While a board seat with voting rights would be more powerful, this is still a very important step forward.
      JD
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 37,498 posts | 5647 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #5: May 21, 2021 03:35:59 pm
      “The Supporters Board will hold regular meetings with the club and the chair will be invited to attend LFC’s main board meetings when fan-facing strategic matters arise.”

      In the article’s own words, it’s essentially a more formalised feedback channel and engagement with fan groups. At least they’ll have to listen more to us fans. While a board seat with voting rights would be more powerful, this is still a very important step forward.

      It's perhaps a step up from the fan representatives they had but I think it's all very minor.

      From a business perspective the club have navigated this well.

      Questions now is are SOS representative of the clubs supporter base? Not so sure.
      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Toshack
      • ***

      • 274 posts | 72 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #6: May 21, 2021 04:15:13 pm
      It's perhaps a step up from the fan representatives they had but I think it's all very minor.

      From a business perspective the club have navigated this well.

      Questions now is are SOS representative of the clubs supporter base? Not so sure.


      SoS do sound like they're trying to be representative, and for legal reasons they may have to go down that route, but there's a danger of getting in a real "political correctness gone mad" mess.

      I don't understand why religion needs to be brought into it at all. Needs to be a Hindu fan. Why? A Roman Catholic. Why? A 7th day Anabaptist. Why? Wtf has religion got to do with football?

      Where does it end? Someone from some obscure religion from some far flung corner of the globe who follows a religion nobody's ever heard of that only has 45 devotees says "what about me, where's my representation on the supporters' board?"

      Why should a Tibetan buddhist (for example) who has been to 2 matches get a seat on the board ahead of some atheist who has done 15 years of away games?

      What about someone who likes trainspotting in their spare time. Where's the LFC trainspotters' representation?

      I don't envy SoS one bit for having to try to negotiate all that.

      There's a danger that the fanbase starts to have some fans that are more important than others, which doesn't sit well with me at all. At the moment we're all equal, to a certain degree of perception. Yes there's the 'scousers' and the 'wools' but that's all very informal, some fans think it's just banter, some find it very offensive.

      What this is in danger of is formalising the some fans are better than others notion into an almost legal split. If you're in SoS you're a proper fan, if you're not then you're not. I think this is dangerous in terms of how LFC fans relate to each other going forwards.
      waltonl4
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 28,823 posts | 4593 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #7: May 21, 2021 04:54:09 pm
      there are plenty of Fans who will have board experience at many levels local,national and international so as weil as perhaps a local representation a fan with board level experience would be a good idea
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 33,497 posts | 5716 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #8: May 21, 2021 05:21:46 pm
      It's perhaps a step up from the fan representatives they had but I think it's all very minor.

      From a business perspective the club have navigated this well.

      Questions now is are SOS representative of the clubs supporter base? Not so sure.

      There are a number of affiliated fan groups to do with Lfc that have now linked up with SOS to make it a lot broader.
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 26,343 posts | 4474 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #9: May 21, 2021 05:44:29 pm
      If you read carefully, it says “supporters’ board” and not a board representation on the Liverpool FC board. I almost thought this was the case before looking at the details. This means there’s no board seat and voting rights. Nonetheless, they’ve created an invaluable feedback channel to listen and engage fan groups.

      “deliver meaningful fan representation at main board and executive levels”

      “enable deeper consultation with supporters on fan-facing strategic decisions” via a “consultation process”

      “The Supporters Board will hold regular meetings with the club and the chair will be invited to attend LFC’s main board meetings when fan-facing strategic matters arise.”

      In the article’s own words, it’s essentially a more formalised feedback channel and engagement with fan groups. At least they’ll have to listen more to us fans. While a board seat with voting rights would be more powerful, this is still a very important step forward.

      Actually from what I’ve read they do have a vote and can act as a block to any initiatives related to supporters.
      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Toshack
      • ***

      • 274 posts | 72 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #10: May 21, 2021 06:20:45 pm
      Actually from what I’ve read they do have a vote and can act as a block to any initiatives related to supporters.

      Don't believe a word of it
      FL Red
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • Started Topic
      • 26,343 posts | 4474 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #11: May 21, 2021 06:30:40 pm

      Oh no kidding...you really think FSG would agree to something that limits their ability to do what they want? They wouldn't have compromised on this unless they already had a way around or out of it.

      EarnedIt6Times
      • Forum John Toshack
      • ***

      • 274 posts | 72 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #12: May 21, 2021 07:16:45 pm
      Oh no kidding...you really think FSG would agree to something that limits their ability to do what they want? They wouldn't have compromised on this unless they already had a way around or out of it.


      Aye, it doesn't make sense from a business perspective at all

      You've got a £2bn business, and you just hand over control to people who don't own any of it?

      You identify a strategic way of building the business from a £2bn business to a £4bn business and say "Hey SoS lads, whaddya reckon?", and the SoS lads say "VETO is what we reckon!"

       ???


      So if you've seen the same quotes that I've seen then either the SoS fella who gave the interview: i) has misunderstood what's going on; or ii) is misrepresenting what is going on to the rest of the fanbase (or his quotes have been misrepresented?)

      or iii) FSG have lost their marbles, or iv) they know they can legally get out of anything they've apparently given away for nothing


      Seems unlikely that FSG have lost their marbles.

      I agree with you that if FSG seem to have provided any freebie options then it's because they know they'll never have to worry about them being activated. For instance, they may have absolutely zero intention whatsoever of leaving Anfield anyway (although it would still be weird to rule out EVER moving away from Anfield, all football stadia get old and potentially dangerous)

      All wil be revealed when there's actual legal documentation available to look at rather than quotes and press statements...


      My primary interest is ruling out the possibility of there ever being another leveraged buyout, but I'm not sure that is legally possible to do under UK law. I doubt it. Think it's just happened to Burnley fairly recently?
      Brian78
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 17,370 posts | 2177 
      • A Liverbird upon my chest
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #13: May 21, 2021 07:54:02 pm
      Very interesting.

      Who decides the individual or individuals who represent us? And how do they represent us?
      chats
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 26,285 posts | 1642 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #14: May 21, 2021 10:14:37 pm
      One of those things that sounds good on paper but I imagine it doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.

      Damage limitation after the Super League f**k up.
      billythered
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
      • ******
      • 8,325 posts | 3280 
      • From Doubters to Champions of the World
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #16: May 22, 2021 01:04:45 pm
      Very interesting.

      Who decides the individual or individuals who represent us? And how do they represent us?



      Yes, can we have a board that decides who goes on the big Board ? 😁


                                      YNWA
      -LFC-
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,794 posts | 686 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #17: May 22, 2021 01:49:08 pm
      No doubt a good thing to have more input from the supporters but this smacks of an attempt by FSG to regain credibility after the disastrous ESL endeavour.

      That PR catastrophe, together with calls for greater regulation in the game that proceeded it, have clearly moved the owners to at least make it look as though serious efforts are underway to address supporters’ concerns. To what extent this is mere window dressing remains to be seen.

      My suspicion is that we will only get meaningful change if the sport regulates to mandate supporter representation, as they did in Germany.
      ruthcity
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
      • *****

      • 5,381 posts | 1001 
      Re: LFC supporters board to be created
      Reply #18: May 22, 2021 02:53:14 pm
      Actually from what I’ve read they do have a vote and can act as a block to any initiatives related to supporters.

      Is it a board level vote? I guess different type of votes can mean different things. You can score 30 goals in training. But ultimately you’d want to score 30 goals in actual matches. If it’s a vote at board level then fans do have power to a certain extent. The question would be  why will FSG give fans an opportunity to vote against what they set out to do?

      Quick Reply