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      Q. LFC Man of the Match v Chelsea?

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      Voting closed: Jan 06, 2022 06:24:58 pm

      Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      waltonl4
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #874: Jan 03, 2022 11:08:57 am

      bank holiday for me for you just another day at work defending FSG as their SPin Doctor
      waltonl4
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #875: Jan 03, 2022 11:13:42 am
      Ah lads have a day off from the fsg stuff and look at the facts, we have dropped at least 8 points this season from winning positions.

      Had we not we would be 3 points off city with a game in handand im fairly certain each time we had close enough our best team out



      FSG is at the very heart of what is going on and where we are and were we are going . 3 players away  now and if we get any more Covid problems we are in trouble and this has been coming . £250 mil net spend in 12 years isnt going to give consistent wins 3 trophies isnt good enough and its our strength in depth that stops us winning more.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #876: Jan 03, 2022 11:16:24 am
      Ah lads have a day off from the fsg stuff and look at the facts, we have dropped at least 8 points this season from winning positions.

      Had we not we would be 3 points off city with a game in handand im fairly certain each time we had close enough our best team out


      Think that’s exactly what Carra was saying yesterday

      Both us and City have been ahead in 15 games - they have gone on to win all 15 - we have only gone on to win 11 - that’s a key difference


      And even in the Leicester game - we missed golden chances in that game

      We are behind City because of ourselves on the pitch
      __Tickle__
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #877: Jan 03, 2022 11:19:23 am
      On a more positive note - how good was Kelleher, some outstanding saves but also did the simple stuff with no fuss , was impressive with balls coming into the box and under pressure - future number 1

      But Alisson stands in his way. Very rarely does it work out that 2 class keepers stay in 1 team. I want to see a bit more more of Kelleher.

      I'd love to see him loaned out to a team that will play him in the prem for a year next season and decide from there who our long term number 1 is.
      Brian78
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #878: Jan 03, 2022 11:21:11 am
      FSG is at the very heart of what is going on and where we are and were we are going . 3 players away  now and if we get any more Covid problems we are in trouble and this has been coming . £250 mil net spend in 12 years isnt going to give consistent wins 3 trophies isnt good enough and its our strength in depth that stops us winning more.

      We were 2 up walton, we had it won and blew it in 5 mins with Trent Virg Hendo Milner Mo Sadio and Fab on the pitch, only leaders missing were Robbo and Bobby. Yesterday plus spurs Brighton and Brentford had nothing to do with the boardroom.

      The worry is that we are dropping points from winning positions and not learning from it.
      Salah10
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #879: Jan 03, 2022 11:29:01 am
      We were 2 up walton, we had it won and blew it in 5 mins with Trent Virg Hendo Milner Mo Sadio and Fab on the pitch, only leaders missing were Robbo and Bobby. Yesterday plus spurs Brighton and Brentford had nothing to do with the boardroom.

      The worry is that we are dropping points from winning positions and not learning from it.

      Because those names you mentioned are not the same as of two years ago.

      Who's excelled this year? Only Salah. Trent is a double edged sword.

      Who else has excelled from that list?
      chats
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #880: Jan 03, 2022 11:38:20 am
      Ah lads have a day off from the fsg stuff and look at the facts, we have dropped at least 8 points this season from winning positions.

      Had we not we would be 3 points off city with a game in handand im fairly certain each time we had close enough our best team out



      I get it though. When it keeps happening at what point do you say maybe a few of our players aren't what they were a couple of years ago and that's why we're dropping points? I'd say there's 4-5 players (for various reasons) that look well off where they were a couple of years ago. When supporters see that on the pitch it's natural to think maybe we should have been more aggressive in the transfer market to push those players either to return to their best form or make way.

      Maybe this style of playing good football but having periods of losing the plot is just the new normal for this side and we need to freshen things up in a few areas to go back to where we were two years ago.
      Brian78
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #881: Jan 03, 2022 11:40:18 am
      Because those names you mentioned are not the same as of two years ago.

      Who's excelled this year? Only Salah. Trent is a double edged sword.

      Who else has excelled from that list?

      They might not be on the form of 2 years ago but they are 2 more years experienced and that experience should see games out
      Salah10
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #882: Jan 03, 2022 11:56:39 am
      They might not be on the form of 2 years ago but they are 2 more years experienced and that experience should see games out

      Not if the level is too high for them. I reckon we've gone as far as we can with this crop of players.

      Out of our starting eleven I think Trent and Fab need proper backups. Players that will push them for their places. Since Trent came in, and Clyne left, he's had no competition. That's not healthy from a squad perspective. No matter how he switches off he'll be playing next week.

      Hendo, Thiago, Mane need replacing.

      We need a serious revamp if we're going to get back to the levels we were at two years ago.
      billythered
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #883: Jan 03, 2022 12:16:00 pm

      Think that’s exactly what Carra was saying yesterday

      Both us and City have been ahead in 15 games - they have gone on to win all 15 - we have only gone on to win 11 - that’s a key difference


      And even in the Leicester game - we missed golden chances in that game

      We are behind City because of ourselves on the pitch




       But you could also argue we are behind in having less quality individuals to opt for, and could perhaps offer us better opportunities to win those games we struggled to win, in short having the ability to turn draws into wins, there are no 100% guarantees that your going to win any game, however it will help having  more quality which enhance your chances to win rather than having to settle for a draw.

      At the moment we don’t have that luxury and that ladies and gentle persons is purely down to lack of investment in playing  staff, up until the start of this season we have coped admirably, but at the half way point of this campaign it’s clear that City with are stretching away because they have the quality and quantity they can easily afford, we can’t quite afford the same luxury but at the very least we could invest more than we do currently, Jürgen has proven that you don’t need X1 absolute superstars to gain success, but what you do need is better quality amongst your squad, and it’s simple, we don’t have enough in ours.






                                                                               Y  N  W  A
      brezipool
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #884: Jan 03, 2022 12:25:34 pm

      Think that’s exactly what Carra was saying yesterday

      Both us and City have been ahead in 15 games - they have gone on to win all 15 - we have only gone on to win 11 - that’s a key difference


      And even in the Leicester game - we missed golden chances in that game

      We are behind City because of ourselves on the pitch

      yup.
      brezipool
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #885: Jan 03, 2022 12:27:37 pm
      They might not be on the form of 2 years ago but they are 2 more years experienced and that experience should see games out

      this is true.

      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #886: Jan 03, 2022 12:38:21 pm
      Have you considered that what people are saying in regards Gini - Thiago and Elliot is exactly what the club have done and it’s what the manager is happy with


      The club knew that Gini wasn’t going to extend his contract so got someone in before he left and Thiago was available- it doesn’t have to be like for like and actually allowed the manager to add something different to the middle

      And it doesn’t matter what position Elliot played when we was signed as a kid - clearly the manager and coaches could see that he potentially has a future playing in a midfield 3 - and going by the evidence of the first few games it was working until his unfortunate injury


      Don’t always have to go out and buy when there is talent coming through

      Is it not possible that the club wanted to bring Elliot through as opposed to buying someone ? Can you not even see that ?

      We aren’t 11 points behind because we didn’t replace Gini - we are 11 points behind because 4 times we have dropped points after leading

      If the club knew that, then why did the club still offer Gini a deal?

      Why would klopp sign a midfielder the season before one of his trustworthy players leaves who is nothing alike at all? It doesn’t make sense.

      Gini was a huge part of our success but in certain games we needed something a little different in midfield. We lacked that spark or creativity and that’s why thiago was signed. Thiago and Gini played in midfield together dozens and dozens of times proving he wasn’t his replacement.

      Of course it matters what position elliott played when he was signed. He was originally signed as a promising winger but because the club didn’t replace gini, he is now one of our options in midfield and the likes of you come on here and say he was gini’s replacement. It just isnt true. When elliott was signed, the club weren’t thinking about bloody Gini Wijnaldum where they?

      Have you not considered that klopp was forced to look within his squad and see who else could play in midfield because the owners said no to any signings?

      If we had a mourinho (and thank f**k we don’t), the owners would definitely be exposed because he for example would just come out and say it as it is. But klopp is too professional and just doesn’t have it in him to do that, despite hinting in the past at his frustration with the board. And I love him for that, but f**k me, don’t be so naive.

      And yes we’ve dropped points from winning positions but so what? Football games last for 90 minutes, not 10, 20, 30 minutes and so on. There’s probably a stat that Brighton or some sh*te team like that would be top of the table if games finished after the first goal. It means nothing. You have to manage the full game and more then 11 players need to be used.

      Our squad before the season wasn’t strong enough to challenge city and we’re where we are now because of it.

      Salah10
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #887: Jan 03, 2022 12:46:03 pm
      If the club knew that, then why did the club still offer Gini a deal?

      Why would klopp sign a midfielder the season before one of his trustworthy players leaves who is nothing alike at all? It doesn’t make sense.

      Gini was a huge part of our success but in certain games we needed something a little different in midfield. We lacked that spark or creativity and that’s why thiago was signed. Thiago and Gini played in midfield together dozens and dozens of times proving he wasn’t his replacement.

      Of course it matters what position elliott played when he was signed. He was originally signed as a promising winger but because the club didn’t replace gini, he is now one of our options in midfield and the likes of you come on here and say he was gini’s replacement. It just isnt true. When elliott was signed, the club weren’t thinking about bloody Gini Wijnaldum where they?

      Have you not considered that klopp was forced to look within his squad and see who else could play in midfield because the owners said no to any signings?

      If we had a mourinho (and thank f**k we don’t), the owners would definitely be exposed because he for example would just come out and say it as it is. But klopp is too professional and just doesn’t have it in him to do that, despite hinting in the past at his frustration with the board. And I love him for that, but f**k me, don’t be so naive.

      And yes we’ve dropped points from winning positions but so what? Football games last for 90 minutes, not 10, 20, 30 minutes and so on. There’s probably a stat that Brighton or some sh*te team like that would be top of the table if games finished after the first goal. It means nothing. You have to manage the full game and more then 11 players need to be used.

      Our squad before the season wasn’t strong enough to challenge city and we’re where we are now because of it.

      Very good point.

      If Jose was here FSG would be exposed all over the media. Maybe they need that?
      Scottbot
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #888: Jan 03, 2022 04:34:29 pm
      It was a cracking game of football and normally we'd be content with a draw at the Bridge but City's form is simply incredible unfortunately. It's hard to see anyone us (or anyone) catching them now, particularly with 2 of our best away for the next few games.

      Whilst i'm happy to be in the League Cup semi-final the truth is we simply don't have the squad to compete on all fronts and these 2 games could end up damaging our League campaign.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #889: Jan 03, 2022 04:39:07 pm
      It was a cracking game of football and normally we'd be content with a draw at the Bridge but City's form is simply incredible unfortunately. It's hard to see anyone us (or anyone) catching them now, particularly with 2 of our best away for the next few games.

      Whilst i'm happy to be in the League Cup semi-final the truth is we simply don't have the squad to compete on all fronts and these 2 games could end up damaging our League campaign.

      Amazing game,  for sure.  Semis won't impact the leaguebas bad though. We don't have a league game for 2 more weeks.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #890: Jan 03, 2022 04:43:19 pm
      If the club knew that, then why did the club still offer Gini a deal?

      Who knows when and what Gini was offered but it was clear 12 months before he was going so imo the club were looking at the next stage for the midfield and the options

      Quote
      Why would klopp sign a midfielder the season before one of his trustworthy players leaves who is nothing alike at all? It doesn’t make sense.

      Gini was a huge part of our success but in certain games we needed something a little different in midfield. We lacked that spark or creativity and that’s why thiago was signed. Thiago and Gini played in midfield together dozens and dozens of times proving he wasn’t his replacement.


      It’s not “proof” it’s an opinion

      The club could just as easily have signed him a year early because he was available on a cut price deal and getting him in a year earlier to allow him to integrate smoother with Gini still there

      Of course they will have played games together - they were in the squad together , even more so when we lost a number of mids to injury

      Quote
      Of course it matters what position elliott played when he was signed. He was originally signed as a promising winger but because the club didn’t replace gini, he is now one of our options in midfield and the likes of you come on here and say he was gini’s replacement. It just isnt true. When elliott was signed, the club weren’t thinking about bloody Gini Wijnaldum where they?

      No one has said that Elliot was signed to be Ginis replacement- he was signed because he was a highly rated talent.

      He played in a wide role for Fulham but during his time at Blackburn he played in a number of roles and there is no doubt the club saw that during his time there and also during pre season when he came back and became one of the options for the midfield - I can’t understand what’s wrong with that , he was one of the standouts during our first 4 games

      Quote

      Have you not considered that klopp was forced to look within his squad and see who else could play in midfield because the owners said no to any signings?

      Why would I consider it when I don’t believe that’s the case - I have seen over the years with Klopp that if he rates a youngster he gives him a chance and that the club appear to want to develop players through - so there is just as much chance that the club ( Edwards and Co ) decided to look at using Elliot to fill the spot in the team.

      Quote
      If we had a mourinho (and thank f**k we don’t), the owners would definitely be exposed because he for example would just come out and say it as it is. But klopp is too professional and just doesn’t have it in him to do that, despite hinting in the past at his frustration with the board. And I love him for that, but f**k me, don’t be so naive.

      Expose them for what exactly ? For running the club exactly how they said they would when they took over ? We know how the club works so what would be the big expose ?

      There is no big hidden secret behind closed doors , it’s all working how they said it would and Klopp many times have stated he is fully aware of how it works and has no issues with and many times been critical of the spending of other clubs.

      Is it not very likely that Klopp is fine with the way the club works , fine with the transfers and fine with the squad size  ?
      There is nothing to suggest anything different

      Quote
      And yes we’ve dropped points from winning positions but so what? Football games last for 90 minutes, not 10, 20, 30 minutes and so on. There’s probably a stat that Brighton or some sh*te team like that would be top of the table if games finished after the first goal. It means nothing. You have to manage the full game and more then 11 players need to be used.

      Our squad before the season wasn’t strong enough to challenge city and we’re where we are now because of it.

      The squad is good enough to win the league , good enough to win the CL , and good enough to win Cups . We just can’t afford mistakes too often and we have made mistakes - not because of the squad but because of players making mistakes - Allison against West Ham , TAA a number of times behind expose and even VVD just not being at the top of his game.
      HamannsTheMan
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #891: Jan 03, 2022 05:47:34 pm
      Who knows when and what Gini was offered but it was clear 12 months before he was going so imo the club were looking at the next stage for the midfield and the options


      It’s not “proof” it’s an opinion

      The club could just as easily have signed him a year early because he was available on a cut price deal and getting him in a year earlier to allow him to integrate smoother with Gini still there

      Of course they will have played games together - they were in the squad together , even more so when we lost a number of mids to injury

      No one has said that Elliot was signed to be Ginis replacement- he was signed because he was a highly rated talent.

      He played in a wide role for Fulham but during his time at Blackburn he played in a number of roles and there is no doubt the club saw that during his time there and also during pre season when he came back and became one of the options for the midfield - I can’t understand what’s wrong with that , he was one of the standouts during our first 4 games

      Why would I consider it when I don’t believe that’s the case - I have seen over the years with Klopp that if he rates a youngster he gives him a chance and that the club appear to want to develop players through - so there is just as much chance that the club ( Edwards and Co ) decided to look at using Elliot to fill the spot in the team.

      Expose them for what exactly ? For running the club exactly how they said they would when they took over ? We know how the club works so what would be the big expose ?

      There is no big hidden secret behind closed doors , it’s all working how they said it would and Klopp many times have stated he is fully aware of how it works and has no issues with and many times been critical of the spending of other clubs.

      Is it not very likely that Klopp is fine with the way the club works , fine with the transfers and fine with the squad size  ?
      There is nothing to suggest anything different

      The squad is good enough to win the league , good enough to win the CL , and good enough to win Cups . We just can’t afford mistakes too often and we have made mistakes - not because of the squad but because of players making mistakes - Allison against West Ham , TAA a number of times behind expose and even VVD just not being at the top of his game.

      So if you don’t know what Gini was offered and when he was offered it, maybe you should shut up then mate? Because you keep ramming it down everybody’s throats that thiago was his replacement but you’ve just said yourself that you don’t even know.

      Is it not a possibility that klopp wanted both thiago and Gini in his squad for this season? Completely rubbishing your idea that thiago was his replacement?

      Your second paragraph states ‘why would I consider it when I don’t believe’ and our ‘debate’ therefore ends there. Literally no point going on any further.
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #892: Jan 03, 2022 06:07:57 pm
      So if you don’t know what Gini was offered and when he was offered it, maybe you should shut up then mate? Because you keep ramming it down everybody’s throats that thiago was his replacement but you’ve just said yourself that you don’t even know.



      You were talking about Gini and offering contracts hence why I said no one knows what was offered - what does it have to do with Thiago potentially being his replacement?


      It’s also a theory or opinion that I have seen and heard from a number of people - telling someone to “shut up” - isn’t exactly a compelling argument

      https://www.rousingthekop.com/2021/06/23/opinion-reported-stance-confirms-thiago-is-to-replace-gini-wijnaldum/?amp

      Quote
      Is it not a possibility that klopp wanted both thiago and Gini in his squad for this season? Completely rubbishing your idea that thiago was his replacement?

      Your second paragraph states ‘why would I consider it when I don’t believe’ and our ‘debate’ therefore ends there. Literally no point going on any further.

      Klopp could well have wanted to keep Gini but Gini didn’t want to stay at the club hence not signing a new contract for a number of years before hand - there was also a chance he was to be sold last summer but they kept him


      But it’s all just opinions at the end of the day - we could both be just as right or wrong as the other

      Im more than happy to respect your opinion even if I don’t agree with it
      bmck
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #893: Jan 03, 2022 06:44:15 pm

      Had we not we would be 3 points off city with a game in handand im fairly certain each time we had close enough our best team out


      And if my Aunt had balls she'd be my Uncle.

      Sorry mate, but find what-if-ery just a little bit sad.

      We're 11 points off Citeh because that's how much better than us they are right now.

      Should be no surprise either give the level of investment in the different squads.

      The bigger the gap, the more FSG will come under the spotlight, and deservedly so.

      And this is not a knee jeck after recent results, this is the what happens when you tie one hand behind the back of the best manager in the world over a period of time.
      bmck
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #894: Jan 03, 2022 06:46:38 pm
      Because those names you mentioned are not the same as of two years ago.

      Who's excelled this year? Only Salah. Trent is a double edged sword.

      Who else has excelled from that list?

      Salah has been unbelievable, goals and assists wise - we're not quite a one man team, but not sure where we would be in the table without him.
      Brian78
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #895: Jan 03, 2022 06:55:51 pm
      Talk all we want about aunties having testicles but the fact remains a fact

      city won all 15 games they took the lead in

      We won 11 from 15 we took a lead in

      Fook all to do with owners, aunties or anyone else. Had we managed those games, which we should at this stage of the journey the table looks a lot different
      bmck
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      Re: Chelsea 2-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #896: Jan 03, 2022 07:04:32 pm

      Fook all to do with owners, aunties or anyone else. Had we managed those games, which we should at this stage of the journey the table looks a lot different

      But we didn't, right?

      I don't want to be sitting in 3rd saying we deserve better [which I don't think we do btw] -  I'd rather give Jürgen what he needs to ACTUALLY be challenging.

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