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      Why have we made such a slow start?

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      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #23: Aug 25, 2022 12:35:31 am
      Not implausible to think fatigue could be a factor given the immensity of our efforts across four fronts last season.

      Related to that, and in my view probably the most significant cause of our woeful start, is the injuries we've suffered combined with a failure to anticipate this situation (which was not entirely unforseeable given the injury record of certain players and the age/inexperience of others) by bringing in one or two players in the midfield, which would have lessened our dependence on some of the older players whose talents are waning -- notwithstanding their great experience and reliability as characters in the dressing room.

      Sometimes you also need to refresh the team to bring a new dynamic, new energy, new competition, to ward off stale patterns of play and to keep the team moving forward. This is what we achieved when we signed Jota, Diaz and Konate, and I think we were starting to see it with Nunez.

      I'm not sure any of these reasons excuse being outfought against the Mancs, Darwin committing a brazen act of stupidity Vs Palace, Trent waltzing around like he's untouchable or the manager failing to make changes quickly enough or starting with Fabinho on the bench in a crunch match.

      There comes a point when we should be talking about a better season despite all of the setbacks because that's the standard we expect and not unreasonably so given the ability of those selected. The likes of Trent, Virgil and Robbo have been well below their usual standards and that's on them to a large extent. To think otherwise is to not place due responsibility where it properly lies.

      It's conceivable that Our intensity to try and win the league was no greater than Man City's intensity, or even Everton or Leeds intensity to stay in the league. This Fatigue trope is redundant, it's lazy and is being used as a side screen to deflect criticism.
      Your point highlighting the injuries is an obvious factor, nobody will dispute that. Your point about refreshing the squad is well made, all industries change personnel to restrict staleness seeping in, as you note, we have introduced some excellent talent.

      Two and and half bad games and three annoying results....but we can and will turn it around.
      adammac
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #24: Aug 25, 2022 01:01:42 am
      The negative reaction IMO is fuelled due to the lack of any real quality in the opposition faced.

      I think if we had tougher schedule supporters still be negative about the amount points dropped so early. It just the standard set by Citeh in terms of point totals to win the league is so high and the standards we have set (we got use to winning a lot) that these types of things don't happen often and when they do it hurts a bit more. Also with the CB crisis of 2 years ago which resulted in terrible run supporters having terrible fear if that happening again.

      God some supporters (sure it is loud minority) would be upset with win unless we had 66 percent or above possesion, 4 goals score with a clean sheet and not allowing a single shot on target ;D
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #25: Aug 25, 2022 06:22:30 am
      How is this guy allowed on here?


      Grow up snowflake and eat some banter for breakfast, Billy will answer me in his usual way.    ;)
      billythered
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #26: Aug 25, 2022 04:37:15 pm

      Grow up snowflake and eat some banter for breakfast, Billy will answer me in his usual way.    ;)







      Yeah, I got slight dementia, especially after yakkin with ye Manc Cnut !!   :f_whistle:
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #27: Aug 25, 2022 04:57:45 pm






      Yeah, I got slight dementia, especially after yakkin with ye Manc Cnut !!   :f_whistle:

      That’s what happens in your 60s +  :P
      tezmac
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #28: Aug 26, 2022 08:22:54 am
      Simlpe we have NO MIDFIELD. And no prospect of buying a creative midfielder
      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #29: Aug 26, 2022 10:47:10 am
      Simlpe we have NO MIDFIELD. And no prospect of buying a creative midfielder
      I think the magnifying glass has focussed too much on the midfield and its weakness and demise is greatly exaggerated. The whole team has been off over the 3 fixtures so far with the defence out of sorts, and the forward line not quite firing on all cylinders, you can add to that some odd team selection. The midfield has been poor, but no worse than other areas of the pitch.
      bmck
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #30: Aug 26, 2022 11:47:18 am
      Don't think its physical tiredness. These are pros, in top shape, sticking to diets etc etc.
      We just don't look mentally at it and prepared for the fight coming into the season. Guys look a bit switched off, asleep at the wheel.
      The way Jürgen plays, the pressing, the concentration, the tempo, its bloody hard to keep that up season after season.
      That's why constant refresh is a good thing, new players come in and bring energy to the place, and to the style of play.

      Against Utd was a worry, we were never really properly threatening, very toothless, players were getting at each other which we rarely see [have no prob with a bit of that, but we don't see it anywhere near like we saw last week], and Jürgen was very slow to make changes for some reason, even though it seemed pretty clear we were nowhere near the pace of the game.
      If Utd had scored a couple of break away goals and we had them under pressure and were looking dangerous, OK. But it was the exact opposite, thought the 2-1 score really flattered us.

      VVD and TAA need a serious rocket, Bob looked way off the pace, Hendo and Milner miles off, need a lot more from Mo etc etc 
      Our best midfield of Fab/Hendo/Thiago has/had a good mix of high energy/press, physicality, and some incisive passing, and all of those things have been missing at the start of the season.

      We've had years now were we have been making signings, sure, we have signed guys, but we've always imho just not gone the extra mile, just that bit extra that would tip Jürgen and us over the line.
      We have been so close on many occasions - last season was a MASSIVE effort from the lads - and it was absolutely GUTTING to miss out on the PL and CL both. Maybe there is also a hangover from that into this season.

      This team has been very successful, it's be a brilliant few years with Jürgen, but when people look back will the team rank up there with some of the other teams and managers who have won many more league titles ?

      Still believe in the lads, but if we don't make a signing or two before the end of the window, hard to see how we can challenge Citeh for a title this year.
      rossyred
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #31: Aug 26, 2022 12:19:04 pm
      Injuries haven't helped obviously . From our current best starting XI IMO.Thiago, Naby, Konate/Matip and Jota are unavailable.  Also think hangover and physcologically after losing league and CL won't have helped
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #32: Aug 26, 2022 12:52:18 pm
      Don't think its physical tiredness. These are pros, in top shape, sticking to diets etc etc.
      We just don't look mentally at it and prepared for the fight coming into the season. Guys look a bit switched off, asleep at the wheel.


      Hang on a min bmck? If your asleep at the wheel doesn’t that mean your tired?   :f_whistle:
      bmck
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #33: Aug 26, 2022 01:17:59 pm
      Hang on a min bmck? If your asleep at the wheel doesn’t that mean your tired?   :f_whistle:

      Was saying coming into a new season they should not be physically tired.  Mentally we don't seem to be at it.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #34: Aug 26, 2022 01:19:48 pm

      You speak different language to us then.  :D
      bmck
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #35: Aug 26, 2022 01:20:13 pm
      You speak different language to us then.  :D

      You anyway obviously
      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #36: Aug 26, 2022 03:30:50 pm
      You speak different language to us then.  :D

      If bmck will allow me to interject: Asleep at the wheel is a phase which describes a general malaise, a kind of lethargy. I don't think he is referring to physical tiredness.

      Can people stop looking for excuses for some shitty performances. They are not tired...They are not hungover from last season.
      rossyred
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #37: Aug 26, 2022 03:36:53 pm
      If bmck will allow me to interject: Asleep at the wheel is a phase which describes a general malaise, a kind of lethargy. I don't think he is referring to physical tiredness.

      Can people stop looking for excuses for some shitty performances. They are not tired...They are not hungover from last season.

      What is it then ?
      FL Red
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #38: Aug 26, 2022 03:38:31 pm
      If bmck will allow me to interject: Asleep at the wheel is a phase which describes a general malaise, a kind of lethargy. I don't think he is referring to physical tiredness.

      Can people stop looking for excuses for some shitty performances. They are not tired...They are not hungover from last season.

      They are something and I think we can all agree they aren't sharp. And sharpness speaks to physical and mental fatigue. Or to indifference...which would be an even more worrying prospect.
      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Billy Liddell
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #39: Aug 26, 2022 03:50:49 pm
      I've posted my take already. Game one: Arrogant and overconfident....Game two: *Arrogant and overconfident, Game three: Poor quality ALL over the pitch...Why? I don't know, Klopp doesn't know....I don't suppose even the players know. I guess sometimes you play sh*t.

      * The red card was a big factor
      rossyred
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #40: Aug 26, 2022 04:06:21 pm
      I've posted my take already. Game one: Arrogant and overconfident....Game two: *Arrogant and overconfident, Game three: Poor quality ALL over the pitch...Why? I don't know, Klopp doesn't know....I don't suppose even the players know. I guess sometimes you play sh*t.

      * The red card was a big factor

      So really other people's reasons could be right then . What signs were there that arrogance and overconfidence existed ?
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #41: Aug 26, 2022 04:17:14 pm
      Injuries haven't helped obviously . From our current best starting XI IMO.Thiago, Naby, Konate/Matip and Jota are unavailable.  Also think hangover and physcologically after losing league and CL won't have helped

      I don't think Naby gets in our best XI to be honest. And I don't know if a fully fit Naby Keita actually changes that much for us this season. The others do though, I agree with that.

      It will be interesting to see (or know) if Jürgen has Jota in his best XI. I don't really like him out wide, I think he's a great goalscorer and not too much of anything else. So for me he'd play through the middle but given the big money signing of Nunez, you'd have to believe that Klopp sees him as the first choice centre forward (eventually).
      rossyred
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #42: Aug 26, 2022 04:22:18 pm
      I don't think Naby gets in our best XI to be honest. And I don't know if a fully fit Naby Keita actually changes that much for us this season. The others do though, I agree with that.

      It will be interesting to see (or know) if Jürgen has Jota in his best XI. I don't really like him out wide, I think he's a great goalscorer and not too much of anything else. So for me he'd play through the middle but given the big money signing of Nunez, you'd have to believe that Klopp sees him as the first choice centre forward (eventually).

      Does for me especially in certain games when teams are sitting in . Sorry forgot about Nunez but point remains only 1 player missing up front whether it's Jota or Nunez
      FL Red
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #43: Aug 26, 2022 04:22:29 pm
      I don't think Naby gets in our best XI to be honest. And I don't know if a fully fit Naby Keita actually changes that much for us this season. The others do though, I agree with that.

      It will be interesting to see (or know) if Jürgen has Jota in his best XI. I don't really like him out wide, I think he's a great goalscorer and not too much of anything else. So for me he'd play through the middle but given the big money signing of Nunez, you'd have to believe that Klopp sees him as the first choice centre forward (eventually).

      People have a real fondness for Jota (which I get) but you are right he isn't super special playing as a winger. Pretty sure that's why Diaz was brought in as well and I don't favor Jota over Diaz on the wing so Diogo may have his work cut out for him once Nunez comes back.
      Keith Singleton
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      • Sir Lewis Hamilton
      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #44: Aug 26, 2022 04:22:51 pm
      If bmck will allow me to interject: Asleep at the wheel is a phase which describes a general malaise, a kind of lethargy. I don't think he is referring to physical tiredness.

      Can people stop looking for excuses for some shitty performances. They are not tired...They are not hungover from last season.

      I’ll let you interject also.  :P Lethargy is not only a lack of enthusiasm it’s also sleepiness which is tired. A simple course of this is overexertion which was the case with the lads last year. Sugarcoat it all you want with the dictionary but the lads are tired!! In my opinion. Let’s leave the dictionary in the cupboard and just base our opinions  ;D
      adammac
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      Re: Why have we made such a slow start?
      Reply #45: Aug 26, 2022 06:10:37 pm
      I don't really like him out wide, I think he's a great goalscorer and not too much of anything else. So for me he'd play through the middle but given the big money signing of Nunez, you'd have to believe that Klopp sees him as the first choice centre forward (eventually).

      I often thought he was very good wide, coming off the full back in the box to score (espeically when TAA crossing is on) and taking a look at his stats he got decent amount of goals from playing wide (9 goals from 23 games on LW while 12 goal from 28 game playing through the middle) as well as 7 assists when playing wide. I agree he is better through the middle but he isn't no slouch on the wing.

      This season Diaz has started decent but I wouldn't say he is a lock at LW so if Jota come back find goof form he can make that position his.

      That being said with the amount of games being played Jota will be likely playing all three potions across the front three (assuming he stays fit) because he is our only attacker who has that versatility.

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