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      Football today.

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      Don77
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      Football today.
      Oct 17, 2022 12:24:37 pm
      I've spent the morning digesting and enjoying the result yesterday. But I've also been thinking in a wider kind of way about football in general.

      Is anyone as concerned as I am about the state of the game currently. When I was a kid and went the game and even as a young adult fans got behind their team and for the most part that was it. Yes it's never been nice where utd are concerned. But they seem to instigate that and sing their 'songs' about us every week.

      But these days there seems to be so much nastiness about. On the terraces it just seems to be getting worse at all levels of the game. Outside the ground can be just as bad before and after games. My son is 6 and to be honest ... the behaviour that goes on at football matches these days I'd have to think long and hard about actually putting him in that environment. The authorities don't seem to clamp down on it.

      There's a culture of 'but you did this and that' etc and an all around blame game that borders on tiresome. The likes of sly sports etc don't help the situation with their endless analysis. Var is just as bad.

      Yesterday its all about vile chanting, the city manager inciting the crowd constantly, coins, buses , disgusting graffiti.  None of it about football. Its just disgusting.

      I fear it won't be long before something really major happens as its out of control.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #1: Oct 17, 2022 12:39:44 pm
      I've spent the morning digesting and enjoying the result yesterday. But I've also been thinking in a wider kind of way about football in general.

      Is anyone as concerned as I am about the state of the game currently. When I was a kid and went the game and even as a young adult fans got behind their team and for the most part that was it. Yes it's never been nice where utd are concerned. But they seem to instigate that and sing their 'songs' about us every week.

      But these days there seems to be so much nastiness about. On the terraces it just seems to be getting worse at all levels of the game. Outside the ground can be just as bad before and after games. My son is 6 and to be honest ... the behaviour that goes on at football matches these days I'd have to think long and hard about actually putting him in that environment. The authorities don't seem to clamp down on it.

      There's a culture of 'but you did this and that' etc and an all around blame game that borders on tiresome. The likes of sly sports etc don't help the situation with their endless analysis. Var is just as bad.

      Yesterday its all about vile chanting, the city manager inciting the crowd constantly, coins, buses , disgusting graffiti.  None of it about football. Its just disgusting.

      I fear it won't be long before something really major happens as its out of control.

      Or just remember that SSN have tv schedules to fill so will literally sensationalise anything.
      Don77
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #2: Oct 17, 2022 12:44:19 pm
      Or just remember that SSN have tv schedules to fill so will literally sensationalise anything.

      They do mate. They pour petrol on a fire daily for sure.

      I'm just more talking about football inside stadiums in general .... it seems to get more aggressive and more toxic each passing day.

      There will be a serious incident before long ... I'm sure of it.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #3: Oct 17, 2022 12:52:26 pm
      They do mate. They pour petrol on a fire daily for sure.

      I'm just more talking about football inside stadiums in general .... it seems to get more aggressive and more toxic each passing day.

      There will be a serious incident before long ... I'm sure of it.

      Nah it was the right type of intense.

      Tbh wish more games were like that. The kop was f**king bouncing.

      There was nothing that could be described as truly nasty. Used to dickhead chants from away fans, but apart from the murderers chants they were mostly drowned out. The coin throwing, if it happened, whoever did it will be on cctv and legged.
      tezmac
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #4: Oct 17, 2022 06:49:34 pm
      I've spent the morning digesting and enjoying the result yesterday. But I've also been thinking in a wider kind of way about football in general.

      Is anyone as concerned as I am about the state of the game currently. When I was a kid and went the game and even as a young adult fans got behind their team and for the most part that was it. Yes it's never been nice where utd are concerned. But they seem to instigate that and sing their 'songs' about us every week.

      But these days there seems to be so much nastiness about. On the terraces it just seems to be getting worse at all levels of the game. Outside the ground can be just as bad before and after games. My son is 6 and to be honest ... the behaviour that goes on at football matches these days I'd have to think long and hard about actually putting him in that environment. The authorities don't seem to clamp down on it.

      There's a culture of 'but you did this and that' etc and an all around blame game that borders on tiresome. The likes of sly sports etc don't help the situation with their endless analysis. Var is just as bad.

      Yesterday its all about vile chanting, the city manager inciting the crowd constantly, coins, buses , disgusting graffiti.  None of it about football. Its just disgusting.

      I fear it won't be long before something really major happens as its out of control.


      The football terraces are a mirror of society, bunch of selfish bas**rds
      Longy-Shops
      • Forum Ian Callaghan
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #5: Oct 17, 2022 08:08:35 pm
      There is too much store in winning, as opposed from taking part, or competing. All sport is obviously about winning and it feels good when you or your team win....but at what cost? The intense rivalry in some of the fixtures is long established and at those games the emotions get ramped up, for all of us. Yet, certainly from the early seventies on, there has been a small percentage of fans(of most big clubs) who can and do go too far. Winning is everything now, and it's often not enough to celebrate your success, there is now a need to belittle or rub your competitors lack of success in the dirt, fine if just banter, but poisonous and potentially terrifying when amplified by a large crowd.  Going to the match is putting yourself, your mates, your children into a fairly hostile environment, there will be swearing and sometimes feral nastiness. How much of that you are prepared to tolerate is your personal choice.
      Is the match day experience worse? I don't know, I'm not interested in going anymore(many reasons)...but some fixtures will be fairly mild, and some will be quite toxic and intimidating, as was always the way.
      As tezmac said: The terraces are a reflection of society. As for the game itself, it evolves...but that's a whole other story.
      waltonl4
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #6: Oct 18, 2022 12:27:10 pm
      The media build up these games and the rivalry to try to boost viewing figures. I saw a stone chip on the City bus and still havent seen footage of the coins being thrown. If you went to games in the 70's the violence in and around the ground was a constant and Stanley Park at full time was usually a battle ground and coaches on Priory road were often attacked with windows smashed.
      The difference now is EVERYTHING is highlighted by the media to sell papers or get viewers and they are a big part of the problem. How many interviews does Jürgen have to do pre and post match its madness.
      Wind 50,000 people up all week and then have apposing fans and their manager goad them and see what happens emotions run high and people get carried away. ITs a circus now and the media and SKY created much of it and they love it.
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #7: Oct 18, 2022 02:41:44 pm
      I've spent the morning digesting and enjoying the result yesterday. But I've also been thinking in a wider kind of way about football in general.

      Is anyone as concerned as I am about the state of the game currently. When I was a kid and went the game and even as a young adult fans got behind their team and for the most part that was it. Yes it's never been nice where utd are concerned. But they seem to instigate that and sing their 'songs' about us every week.

      But these days there seems to be so much nastiness about. On the terraces it just seems to be getting worse at all levels of the game. Outside the ground can be just as bad before and after games. My son is 6 and to be honest ... the behaviour that goes on at football matches these days I'd have to think long and hard about actually putting him in that environment. The authorities don't seem to clamp down on it.

      There's a culture of 'but you did this and that' etc and an all around blame game that borders on tiresome. The likes of sly sports etc don't help the situation with their endless analysis. Var is just as bad.

      Yesterday its all about vile chanting, the city manager inciting the crowd constantly, coins, buses , disgusting graffiti.  None of it about football. Its just disgusting.

      I fear it won't be long before something really major happens as its out of control.
      I share your concern. I dont claim I have a full answer to your questions, but I think part of the problem is social media. Fans come to the game pumped by vile stuff and logics they see on platforms where there is no responsibility to be taken for saying the most outrageous and false things.

      The whole debacle after the game on Sunday is a perfect example. Every club seems to have a group of 20+ fans accounts that seem, without any exaggeration, to be run by 12 year olds and those accounts have a pretty sizeable following (you have to remember their following does not stop at their followers count, thats just the inner followers circles. So when an account run by a 12yo has 200k followers, think more like 700k people seeing that crap). These accounts constantly post some of the most childish, false and hateful stuff and it only gets worse after a defeat. If you've noticed, those accounts survive solely on some type of negativity/fighting. When there is no football games and crap to be stirred between fanbases they will have a go at their own players, club owners or other parts of the club in an overly negative way or simply create an artificial fight with another fanbase.

      I know we value free speech, but it seems that our societies have not adapted to the reality of that free speech on social media. It seems that there is an incredibly large chunk of the population that has no critical thinking abilities whatsoever. I'm not saying we should limit what people can say on social media, but we should definitely, as a society, teach people from a young age how to think critically so that an account seemingly run by a 12yo can't enflame a sizeable slice of a fanbase and dictate patterns of thinking and ways of acting in the real world.

      On the other hand I also must touch upon our good ol journalists. It seems that a lot of them are too busy trying to get likes and followers to stop for a second and do their job properly by posting sensible stuff instead of subtly pouring oil on the fire. Wether its on social media or on TV, there seems to be a lack of professionalism in the way some issues are covered. Managers words taken out of contexts and then used on social media to get likes and comments, subtle animosity creation to once again generate likes and comments.

      One has to wonder if something has to be done about social media and the constant search for likes and comments that then leads to clickbait tittles, using words out of contexts, etc. It is problematic when random people do it, but its catastrophic when its done by news outlets (official accounts) and their journalists (and they do it all the time). 
      FL Red
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #8: Oct 24, 2022 02:32:30 pm
      I've spent the morning digesting and enjoying the result yesterday. But I've also been thinking in a wider kind of way about football in general.

      Is anyone as concerned as I am about the state of the game currently. When I was a kid and went the game and even as a young adult fans got behind their team and for the most part that was it. Yes it's never been nice where utd are concerned. But they seem to instigate that and sing their 'songs' about us every week.

      But these days there seems to be so much nastiness about. On the terraces it just seems to be getting worse at all levels of the game. Outside the ground can be just as bad before and after games. My son is 6 and to be honest ... the behaviour that goes on at football matches these days I'd have to think long and hard about actually putting him in that environment. The authorities don't seem to clamp down on it.

      There's a culture of 'but you did this and that' etc and an all around blame game that borders on tiresome. The likes of sly sports etc don't help the situation with their endless analysis. Var is just as bad.

      Yesterday its all about vile chanting, the city manager inciting the crowd constantly, coins, buses , disgusting graffiti.  None of it about football. Its just disgusting.

      I fear it won't be long before something really major happens as its out of control.

      All the things you are concerned with are happening in society in general...all around the world. The rise of Social Media is a big reason. People can say whatever they want to whoever they want with little to no consequence. Society in general is degrading, lack of respect for fellow humans, lack of respect for people's fundamental differences whether that be racial, religious, political, etc....

      You can even see it on this forum. There are some people on here that say things to fellow supporters that wouldn't dare make such statements in person. Or maybe they would, and therein lies part of the problem as well.
      UncleBob
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #9: Oct 24, 2022 06:26:07 pm
      I’m not sure it’s a football/society issue.
      Other sports don’t have this problem.
      And Is it all football or just mens football? Do the vile chants happen in womens football? I’m not sure.

      I think mens football has let it become normal for folk to pretty much do what they want. Can’t remember who it was on here who linked to a piece by the police who claimed more arrests and alcohol/drugs were happening during matches.

      Racism and hate crimes in general do happen in society and football is no exception to that but again are women lesbians are afraid to come out as men?
      I think for a lot of gay players they have kept it secret because of the risk of chants and abuse from the terraces.

      So for me, as much as I think society has a massive problem with various topics, the mens football game, and fans in particular, seem to be a cesspit for the uglier side of that society.

      But then you have people like Boris saying that Muslim women are like ‘letterboxes’ and then comedians like Jimmy Carr making jokes about the holocaust.

      If I went to a stadium and shouted “Oi Salah, your wife is a letterbox!” I’d probably be banned for life and arrested for hate crimes…
      Equally if I shouted “6 million, should have been more!” Every time a Jewish player touched the ball I would be arrested.

      So maybe it’s also a little bit of life imitating art. Either way, mens football seems to attract the vile side of humanity.

      gazred
      • Forum John Toshack
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      Re: Football today.
      Reply #10: Oct 25, 2022 09:17:37 am
      This is definitely not a new problem. I think it's got worse in the last 10 years due to various reasons, social media has encouraged people to express their more vile opinions; Brexit, Trump, Johnson and other factors have made these options more acceptable.

      Are we in a better place than we were 40 years ago? I think that racism, homophobia, etc were more acceptable then. Look at the abuse John Barnes experienced. Daniel Amokachi was abused by his own fans at Everton. Ox's dad has talked about being abused by England fans on a flight home after playing for England.

      I think that these problems have generally reduced but there has been an increase in last few years. Or is it just reported more because people are taking smart phones to games and posting stuff on social media?

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