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      The Quality of Players

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      solodee
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      The Quality of Players
      Oct 30, 2022 04:32:32 pm
      The quality of players in the team is not the problem.

      This is the same team that smashed Bournemouth 9-0, a game in which MoSalah did not score a goal.

      We also beat Rangers, Ajax, high-flying Newcastle and West Ham.

      The loss to Arsenal FC was due to poor refereeing, while the loss to Manchester United remains inexplicable, save for a bad day at the office.

      Our midfield is not as bad as the players are being portrayed to be.

      I believe something has gone wrong with the training regimen.

      So many poor passes from midfield to attack;

      Our defence players are not clearing balls early enough, probably out of fear of a yellow card and a penalty;

      Our strikers are lacking in confidence to shoot. Darwin is not a poor buy. He is playing the Diaz role, which is not his natural role. He was poor against Leeds though.
       
      We are also missing Diaz & Matip. I feel Gomez has been okay though.

      That said, this is the same team that beat Manchester City, in a game that Haaland could not even score.

      The team need a confidence boost though. We are also experimenting with formations a little too much.

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #1: Oct 30, 2022 04:54:30 pm
      Set up and shape right now doesn’t seem right


      Nunez coming in provides a different dynamic to all our other previous forwards - to get the best of his talents it looks like Klopp is adjusting the way we play and it’s looks like it’s taking its time


      Think he is still searching for that best formula - we you also add in a number of spine players being way off form then it’s going to produce inconsistent results


      Right now the players level has dropped from what he have seen over the last 5 years - reasons for that - mental and physical tiredness potentially.


      Whatever the reason is - Klopp will sort it out
      Billo
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #2: Oct 30, 2022 04:58:30 pm
      What i have taken from this season is that our midfield has been poor. They arent protecting the back line and not offering anything attacking wise. I dont think its the formation, these are modern players whom sit and have classes on formations they are going to play and what their role is.

      Its just that our midfield cant keep the pressure up. We have few injury problems, and the weight is usually on Fabinho to be the midfield engine we need. He is out of form now, and i think he is just overplayed. He needs rest imo.

      We also lack quality in mid. Keita cant be depended on, same goes for Thiago. Hendo and milner just dont cut it anymore. Curtis hasnt progressed in a while, and Elliot is too young too play so many games. There is a need for atleast one more quality CM.

      I have mentioned it before but i think JK knew we were light in the midfield, but we just didnt have the funds to get carvalho, Nunez and a midfielder. So we went for the cheap option, Melo on loan.

      There are glimpses of what we are capable of, but since our midfielders are out of form. we are struggling to keep winning. Thats just how i see it.
      tezmac
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #3: Oct 30, 2022 05:08:35 pm
      We have many players who are frequently injured, many who are old and many who are past their sell by date if Klopp stays he going to need massive reinvestment…… will he get it
      chats
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #4: Oct 30, 2022 05:13:48 pm
      Midfield is certainly a quality issue. I don't think any of them bar Thiago should be regular starters for a team wanting to win things. Hendo and Fabinho are in massive decline and the others can't be depended upon. I mean even Thiago himself can't be depended on either.
      solodee
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #5: Oct 30, 2022 05:59:59 pm
      I thought Thiago was actually good against Leeds..

      Darwin spurned two key goal-scoring moment surprisingly, for a striker that cost so much.

      Our pressing has been subpar. We did that well against Bournemouth and Manchester City.

      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #6: Oct 30, 2022 06:05:36 pm
      I thought Thiago was actually good against Leeds..

      Darwin spurned two key goal-scoring moment surprisingly, for a striker that cost so much.

      Our pressing has been subpar. We did that well against Bournemouth and Manchester City.

      To get the best out of Thiago you need to have two “workers” with him , players that will help him create space for himself , do all the running and closing


      Last season when he was at his best he had two of Naby , Fab and Hendo with him - Naby was at times really key.


      I don’t think as a midfield three we can have Thiago and Elliot there
      Billo
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #7: Oct 30, 2022 06:30:07 pm
      To get the best out of Thiago you need to have two “workers” with him , players that will help him create space for himself , do all the running and closing


      Last season when he was at his best he had two of Naby , Fab and Hendo with him - Naby was at times really key.


      I don’t think as a midfield three we can have Thiago and Elliot there

      Yeah, i agree. We need a work horse who can do the donkey work so THiago can focus on what he does best and thats find passes. He is using more energy on defending then playing passes nowdays.
      RC9
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #8: Oct 30, 2022 07:11:31 pm
      For me it's simple, we are not adapting to the decline of our midfield.

      We no longer have a midfielder that can play with one holding midfielder and another midfield just a bit higher up either side, this is because:

      1. The deep-lying midfielder because too exposed as they are not mobile enough to cover both sides.

      2. The other two midfielders who can go high up are not mobile enough to cover the full-backs on their side.

      Because of this, we are incredibly exposed defensively, where we could previously rely on VVD or another CB to stop a counter, we just don't have that at the minute, so in my opinion, we need to find a formation that does not expose our midfield/defence.

      We have the quality in the squad but right now we haven't figured out the right formation to address the decline of certain players.

      I have mentioned it previously but I have noticed a considerable difference when Fab plays with a partner to the side of him and not necessarily higher up the pitch, we seem more compact and it's easier for our midfield to control the game.

      « Last Edit: Oct 30, 2022 11:09:30 pm by RC9 »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #9: Oct 30, 2022 07:18:45 pm
      For me it's simple, we are not adapting to the decline of our midfield.

      We no longer have a midfield that can play with one holding midfielder and another midfield just a bit higher up either side, this is because:

      1. The deep-lying midfielder because too exposed as they are not mobile enough to cover both sides.

      2. The other two midfielders who can go high up are not mobile enough to cover the full-backs on their side.

      Because of this, we are incredibly exposed defensively, where we could previously rely on VVD or another CB to stop a counter, we just don't have that at the minute, so in my opinion, we need to find a formation that does not expose our midfield/defence.

      We have the quality in the squad but right now we haven't figured out the right formation to address the decline of certain players.

      I have mentioned it previously but I have noticed a considerable difference when Fab plays with a partner to the side of him and not necessarily higher up the pitch, we seem more compact and it's easier for our midfield to control the game.


      Is that the old “double pivot” - send it a few times with Fabinho and Henderson sitting and then Thiago or Elliot a bit free


      For the next game at Spurs I think it’s time to sit back a yard or two as a solid three - Fabinho Henderson and Thiago as a free
      RC9
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #10: Oct 30, 2022 07:22:49 pm

      Is that the old “double pivot” - send it a few times with Fabinho and Henderson sitting and then Thiago or Elliot a bit free


      For the next game at Spurs I think it’s time to sit back a yard or two as a solid three - Fabinho Henderson and Thiago as a free

      Yeah, against Leeds Fab was by himself, same with against Forest. Just gives us 0 control and leaves us vulnerable defensively IMO.
      solodee
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #11: Oct 30, 2022 07:23:02 pm
      For me it's simple, we are not adapting to the decline of our midfield.

      We no longer have a midfield that can play with one holding midfielder and another midfield just a bit higher up either side, this is because:

      1. The deep-lying midfielder because too exposed as they are not mobile enough to cover both sides.

      2. The other two midfielders who can go high up are not mobile enough to cover the full-backs on their side.

      Because of this, we are incredibly exposed defensively, where we could previously rely on VVD or another CB to stop a counter, we just don't have that at the minute, so in my opinion, we need to find a formation that does not expose our midfield/defence.

      We have the quality in the squad but right now we haven't figured out the right formation to address the decline of certain players.

      I have mentioned it previously but I have noticed a considerable difference when Fab plays with a partner to the side of him and not necessarily higher up the pitch, we seem more compact and it's easier for our midfield to control the game.



      Maybe a Fabio/Hendo DM position will allow Thiago move higher up, while Darwin plays as a 9 flanked by Salah and Firmino.

      Darwin is not doing good playing from the Left flank.
      RC9
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #12: Oct 30, 2022 07:25:13 pm
      Maybe a Fabio/Hendo DM position will allow Thiago move higher up, while Darwin plays as a 9 flanked by Salah and Firmino.

      Darwin is not doing good playing from the Left flank.

      Darwin needs to be central IMO. He has the pace to be a threat from the flank but not the dribbling ability IMO well maybe not yet.

      Also good to see you posting mate, I might be mistaking you for someone else but feel like you are one of the members I remember from back in the day!
      « Last Edit: Oct 31, 2022 08:54:36 am by RC9 »
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #13: Oct 30, 2022 07:28:11 pm
      Yeah, against Leeds Fab was by himself, same with against Forest. Just gives us 0 control and leaves us vulnerable defensively IMO.

      Yep - you could see he was isolated and outnumbered , they just passed around him and gone , Thiago and Elliot were just too far away from him
      srslfc
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #14: Oct 30, 2022 10:15:46 pm
      For me it's simple, we are not adapting to the decline of our midfield.

      We no longer have a midfield that can play with one holding midfielder and another midfield just a bit higher up either side, this is because:

      1. The deep-lying midfielder because too exposed as they are not mobile enough to cover both sides.

      2. The other two midfielders who can go high up are not mobile enough to cover the full-backs on their side.

      Because of this, we are incredibly exposed defensively, where we could previously rely on VVD or another CB to stop a counter, we just don't have that at the minute, so in my opinion, we need to find a formation that does not expose our midfield/defence.

      We have the quality in the squad but right now we haven't figured out the right formation to address the decline of certain players.

      I have mentioned it previously but I have noticed a considerable difference when Fab plays with a partner to the side of him and not necessarily higher up the pitch, we seem more compact and it's easier for our midfield to control the game.



      This.

      Alongside the front three no longer being what were used to.

      It's painful to watch at times but my only glimmer is that this is what it'll take to establish the next system and style of play were working towards.

      Doesn't look like it now, and we need two mobile CM to push us forward again but along with that we need to decide how the front three/four looks and start to really get that together.
      FL Red
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #15: Oct 31, 2022 01:19:08 am
      Everyone talks about our midfield...did our midfield cause Joe to make a lazy backpass? Did our midfield cause Virgil to stand flat footed while the Leeds attacker blasted in his shot? Neither one of their goals yesterday was due to our midfield. We are not playing the same as we have in the past. Whether it's intensity or setup or what, we just look like a dumber team. The same players look dumber than they have in the past. Why would that be? I'm genuinely asking because it's baffling to me. A team that always looked to know exactly what needed to be done, always looked sharp and balanced, now looks like a monkey f**king a basketball. That's why I'm not convinced that buying a mid (or two) in the winter window is going to just magically solve all of our problems. Whether his name is Bellingham or not.
      Keith Singleton
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #16: Oct 31, 2022 06:22:01 am
      Everyone talks about our midfield...did our midfield cause Joe to make a lazy backpass? Did our midfield cause Virgil to stand flat footed while the Leeds attacker blasted in his shot? Neither one of their goals yesterday was due to our midfield. We are not playing the same as we have in the past. Whether it's intensity or setup or what, we just look like a dumber team. The same players look dumber than they have in the past. Why would that be? I'm genuinely asking because it's baffling to me. A team that always looked to know exactly what needed to be done, always looked sharp and balanced, now looks like a monkey f**king a basketball. That's why I'm not convinced that buying a mid (or two) in the winter window is going to just magically solve all of our problems. Whether his name is Bellingham or not.

      Why don’t you have a opinion of your own without copy & paste what Pj says.  :lmao: You read to much instead of thinking for yourself. There’s more than midfield problems at the moment but predominantly that is your main issue.

      Ps.. go and catch up some reading on Pjs answer then come back to me.  :f_whistle:
      Lallana in Pyjamas
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #17: Oct 31, 2022 02:00:11 pm
      RC9
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #18: Oct 31, 2022 02:05:37 pm
      Harrisimo
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      Re: The Quality of Players
      Reply #19: Oct 31, 2022 02:09:07 pm
      Only got to look at how Brighton and Leeds approached the games at Anfield. In the past it was 'park the bus' time but both teams came out and went for it. Pushing us back, overruning us in midfield. Point is - there was no fear. And that message is out there for sure.

      Respect and fear of a thrashing are strong emotions when teams faced us, especially at Anfield, that was very often the case. Not anymore. We are fair game and we are on offer. These players are paid millions, time they started earning their money.

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