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      Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion

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      Don77
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #575: Jan 08, 2023 03:37:05 pm
      I see gundogan at 31 ... Still a he'll of a player for City. Fernandinho at 35/35 was still good for them. Fabinho at 29 looks like he's finished at the top level. He's one of my favourite players ... our world class defensive enforcer ... and he looks finished. I feel really sad just watching him ... its painful.
      AlwaysTheKop
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #576: Jan 08, 2023 03:43:04 pm
      I see gundogan at 31 ... Still a he'll of a player for City. Fernandinho at 35/35 was still good for them. Fabinho at 29 looks like he's finished at the top level. He's one of my favourite players ... our world class defensive enforcer ... and he looks finished. I feel really sad just watching him ... its painful.

      Let’s not forget he lines up with Kevin and Rodri most the time… whereas Fabinho is lucky to get Hendo and Thiago on a good day.
      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #577: Jan 08, 2023 04:15:06 pm
      No need in watching the replay. Klopp will play kids. We drew away at Brighton in the fourth. Fml
      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #578: Jan 08, 2023 04:19:19 pm
      Major problems all over the field. Earlier in the season it was easy to pin all our pains on the midfield, but with each game that passes its clear that the midfield is a problem, but not the reason why we are so poor.

      First of all, we have bursts of energy in between long periods of sleep walking around the field. The 11 players seemed to be switched off mentally and for some others also physically. Yesterday, it was Alisson who ended up making the costly mistake in his own box, but before that Konate, Matip, Thiago and Fabinho (those I can remember) all gave away the ball very easily around or inside the box at least once each. This continued to happen in the second half and it ultimately led to Wolve's second. Konate gave the ball in the most silly fashion at the edge of the box (left side) which allowed Wolve's to keep the pressure, switch the play and score.

      Defending is just not up to par and it starts with the forwards displaying a pretty bad if not heartless press. Not sustained and very inconsistent (I think the manager spoke about it after last game. With that said, going through our midfield is like going around a cone. The 3 midfielders are either static or they run around the ball holder without ever making a challenge and let him freely move around and dispatch the wanted pass. Yes Fabinho is bad, but I think the work rate and especially the defending of the two players around him completely sink him. He's constantly lost between running towards the carrier because none of the other two midfielders and wingers pressed them and they are running in acres of space or try to cover potential receivers. Before he knows it he is pinned against his CBs with little to no space between the ball carrier and the box which ultimately means he has to risk conceding a dangerous free-kick or a penalty, one after the other. Go back and take a look the first half yesterday and you'll see what I mean. I gave the lad a ton of sh*t for months now, but its becoming clearer every game that he can't do his job of sweeping up if he is left to do everything ''denfence'' in the midfield all alone in that much space around so many opposition players.

      This is related to my first point, nobody in the team is press resistant. Not just the midfielder, but everyone from the GK to the striker. Nobody can keep the ball at his feet once pressed. The best we can do is make a back pass or a very safe sideways pass. Nobody can carry it through a press line or pass it through it. This issue is the main one related to the lack of midfield acquisitions. Hendo and Fabinho have never been press resistant midfielders. The only two midfielders we have on paper that possess this attribute is Thiago (mainly through a good first touch and good passing) and Keita (through the ability to carry it through lines). Gini was also very good at that. Now Keita, like we all know, plays an average of one or two games a month which leaves us with Thiago. Most of the time he is good at that, but its expected that he'll have off days like yesterday and when this happens we are 100% helpless in that area of the field. We need, at the very least, two very press resistant midfielders with box to box attributes to be added. Wether this can happen this window, I doubt it, but if it doesn't happen this summer then we are seriously gambling with our short term success chances and in turn our medium and long term chances at success too.

      I could also talk about the frontline, but its always hard to blame the forwards, offensively speaking, when you cannot keep the ball, you cannot create and you spend most of the game punting it towards with about 40 yards of space between them and the nearest supporting midfielder (if not player). However, like I said above their press is also pretty bad, not sustained and very inconsistent.

      Edit: Also, offensively speaking, its hard to give sh*t to our forwards when they managed two goals. Scoring two goals, in football, should always be enough to secure a win for you if you play decent football. Only we don't play decent football.

      Breeding-Reds-In-The-434
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #579: Jan 08, 2023 04:28:17 pm
      Major problems all over the field. Earlier in the season it was easy to pin all our pains on the midfield, but with each game that passes its clear that the midfield is a problem, but not the reason why we are so poor.

      First of all, we have bursts of energy in between long periods of sleep walking around the field. The 11 players seemed to be switched off mentally and for some others also physically. Yesterday, it was Alisson who ended up making the costly mistake in his own box, but before that Konate, Matip, Thiago and Fabinho (those I can remember) all gave away the ball very easily around or inside the box at least once each. This continued to happen in the second half and it ultimately led to Wolve's second. Konate gave the ball in the most silly fashion at the edge of the box (left side) which allowed Wolve's to keep the pressure, switch the play and score.

      Defending is just not up to par and it starts with the forwards displaying a pretty bad if not heartless press. Not sustained and very inconsistent (I think the manager spoke about it after last game. With that said, going through our midfield is like going around a cone. The 3 midfielders are either static or they run around the ball holder without ever making a challenge and let him freely move around and dispatch the wanted pass. Yes Fabinho is bad, but I think the work rate and especially the defending of the two players around him completely sink him. He's constantly lost between running towards the carrier because none of the other two midfielders and wingers pressed them and they are running in acres of space or try to cover potential receivers. Before he knows it he is pinned against his CBs with little to no space between the ball carrier and the box which ultimately means he has to risk conceding a dangerous free-kick or a penalty, one after the other. Go back and take a look the first half yesterday and you'll see what I mean. I gave the lad a ton of sh*t for months now, but its becoming clearer every game that he can't do his job of sweeping up if he is left to do everything ''denfence'' in the midfield all alone in that much space around so many opposition players.

      This is related to my first point, nobody in the team is press resistant. Not just the midfielder, but everyone from the GK to the striker. Nobody can keep the ball at his feet once pressed. The best we can do is make a back pass or a very safe sideways pass. Nobody can carry it through a press line or pass it through it. This issue is the main one related to the lack of midfield acquisitions. Hendo and Fabinho have never been press resistant midfielders. The only two midfielders we have on paper that possess this attribute is Thiago (mainly through a good first touch and good passing) and Keita (through the ability to carry it through lines). Gini was also very good at that. Now Keita, like we all know, plays an average of one or two games a month which leaves us with Thiago. Most of the time he is good at that, but its expected that he'll have off days like yesterday and when this happens we are 100% helpless in that area of the field. We need, at the very least, two very press resistant midfielders with box to box attributes to be added. Wether this can happen this window, I doubt it, but if it doesn't happen this summer then we are seriously gambling with our short term success chances and in turn our medium and long term chances at success too.

      I could also talk about the frontline, but its always hard to blame the forwards, offensively speaking, when you cannot keep the ball, you cannot create and you spend most of the game punting it towards with about 40 yards of space between them and the nearest supporting midfielder (if not player). However, like I said above their press is also pretty bad, not sustained and very inconsistent.

      Edit: Also, offensively speaking, its hard to give sh*t to our forwards when they managed two goals. Scoring two goals, in football, should always be enough to secure a win for you if you play decent football. Only we don't play decent football.

      Awesome awesome post bro. Next time just say we suck 🤣
      tezmac
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #580: Jan 08, 2023 04:32:35 pm
      So FSG get the blame when it goes wrong but when it goes right they get no credit 🤷‍♂️

      F**k off brown nose
      GERNS
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #581: Jan 08, 2023 05:14:30 pm
      Well we’ve got Brighton at the weekend, so should we be fortunate enough to beat wolves in the replay, the Brighton game will give us some idea, how many we’re gonna lose by in the next round. 🤷‍♂️
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #582: Jan 08, 2023 05:36:22 pm
      I see gundogan at 31 ... Still a he'll of a player for City. Fernandinho at 35/35 was still good for them. Fabinho at 29 looks like he's finished at the top level. He's one of my favourite players ... our world class defensive enforcer ... and he looks finished. I feel really sad just watching him ... its painful.

      Exactly - Real Madrid keep their older players, Bayern, Milan, City, Chelsea - they all do. Why do ours (minus Milner) look absolutely shattered and done.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #583: Jan 08, 2023 05:54:37 pm
      Exactly - Real Madrid keep their older players, Bayern, Milan, City, Chelsea - they all do. Why do ours (minus Milner) look absolutely shattered and done.

      For the answer look at how economical City, Real etc are in and out of possession. They hardly need to run yet keep possession, create and take chances, set up defensively, block passing options etc. Then watch our first 20 mins yesterday. Exciting, 100mph pinball football with maximum intensity bt then for the next hour we’re knackered. Extrapolate that over several seasons and you might expect the physical and mental capacities of players to weaken.
      Heavy metal football has been a great watch for 7 years and has been moderately successful, but there’s a desperate-looking naivety to it now. Make the ball do the work, as Paisley and Shanks used to say.

      YNWA
      UncleBob
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #584: Jan 08, 2023 05:58:35 pm
      For the answer look at how economical City, Real etc are in and out of possession. They hardly need to run yet keep possession, create and take chances, set up defensively, block passing options etc. Then watch our first 20 mins yesterday. Exciting, 100mph pinball football with maximum intensity bt then for the next hour we’re knackered. Extrapolate that over several seasons and you might expect the physical and mental capacities of players to weaken.
      Heavy metal football has been a great watch for 7 years and has been moderately successful, but there’s a desperate-looking naivety to it now. Make the ball do the work, as Paisley and Shanks used to say.

      YNWA

      I agree though I don’t think there’s anything ‘moderate’ about our success.

      We have won more champions leagues in that time than city/arsenal ever have.
      And we have reached points tallies that other clubs can only dream of.
      Don’t let the fact that an oil club has tarnished our sport get in the way of what we have actually achieved.
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #585: Jan 08, 2023 06:34:33 pm
      I agree though I don’t think there’s anything ‘moderate’ about our success.

      We have won more champions leagues in that time than city/arsenal ever have.
      And we have reached points tallies that other clubs can only dream of.
      Don’t let the fact that an oil club has tarnished our sport get in the way of what we have actually achieved.

      That’s fair comment and maybe moderate isn’t quite the word, but I was spreading that success over the 7 years of JK’s reign, which took a bit of time to yield a trophy before the floodgates opened.
      I am a massive Klopp fan, but even he needs to (and indeed has!) adapted the team’s methods over time. Just don’t think the current approach is working - largely due to the available personnel, not all his fault, though.
      I think now we need to work on being more solid in transitions, recovering defensive shape quickly, using two holding mids (Fab and Bajcetic for now), less bombing around leaving gaps.  Raise the intensity in bursts then recover. 
      Too many huge individual errors (that’s the only kind of goal we concede!) - is that down to players tiring too early mentally as well as physically because we’re goin out so intensely early on? Just posing the question.
      LondonRed83
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #586: Jan 08, 2023 06:35:13 pm
      I agree though I don’t think there’s anything ‘moderate’ about our success.

      We have won more champions leagues in that time than city/arsenal ever have.
      And we have reached points tallies that other clubs can only dream of.
      Don’t let the fact that an oil club has tarnished our sport get in the way of what we have actually achieved.

      I agree - massive success. Klopp has taken us to 4 European finals! City would kill for that, we all love him. I trust him to sort this out, just looks so crap at the moment. Hope we can do it.
      Don77
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #587: Jan 08, 2023 07:03:55 pm
      Let’s not forget he lines up with Kevin and Rodri most the time… whereas Fabinho is lucky to get Hendo and Thiago on a good day.

      Its not who he lines up with. Its the way he moves. Fabinho looks like he can hardly run anymore. He looks like he's got no strength or zip .... if he lined up with Rodri and de Bruyne he'd still look finished. As I say ... he's one of my favourites and it's painful watching him this season.
      UncleBob
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #588: Jan 08, 2023 07:26:39 pm
      That’s fair comment and maybe moderate isn’t quite the word, but I was spreading that success over the 7 years of JK’s reign, which took a bit of time to yield a trophy before the floodgates opened.
      I am a massive Klopp fan, but even he needs to (and indeed has!) adapted the team’s methods over time. Just don’t think the current approach is working - largely due to the available personnel, not all his fault, though.
      I think now we need to work on being more solid in transitions, recovering defensive shape quickly, using two holding mids (Fab and Bajcetic for now), less bombing around leaving gaps.  Raise the intensity in bursts then recover. 
      Too many huge individual errors (that’s the only kind of goal we concede!) - is that down to players tiring too early mentally as well as physically because we’re goin out so intensely early on? Just posing the question.

      A lot is down to legs and a bit is down to confidence.
      It doesn’t help that every mistake is being punished right now and our strikers need 5 golden chances to convert into one goal.

      I remember years ago people would suggest that if we don’t score early when we are 100mph we tend to struggle.
      Then we became clinical and nothing could stop us.

      Now we have regressed back to 2018 levels. Not sure what the fix is….
      TheleftpegofRayKennedy
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #589: Jan 08, 2023 07:39:22 pm
      A lot is down to legs and a bit is down to confidence.
      It doesn’t help that every mistake is being punished right now and our strikers need 5 golden chances to convert into one goal.

      I remember years ago people would suggest that if we don’t score early when we are 100mph we tend to struggle.
      Then we became clinical and nothing could stop us.

      Now we have regressed back to 2018 levels. Not sure what the fix is….

      Get Sadio back?!
      David Wright
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #590: Jan 08, 2023 08:23:53 pm
      The football played in the last few years, certainly has been successful as well as being enjoyable, bringing all the trophies possible to win. It seems to me the present side has run out of steam and a massive rebuild is required !
      UncleBob
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #591: Jan 08, 2023 08:42:00 pm

      That would be nice…. But even he is 31 soon and would be on our long list of players needed replacing.

      I think two midfielders would be a start. I can’t see bellingham signing if we don’t finish top 4….
      In that case I wouldn’t mind Maddison and rice.

      What I would do now for an alonso mascherano gerrard engine.
      Emlyn Hughes
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #592: Jan 08, 2023 08:48:17 pm
      Brighton is waiting at the Amex if we manage to beat Wolves. Let's see how we do against them on the weekend and the how much worse it might be in the next round...
      redtiler
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #593: Jan 08, 2023 10:13:37 pm
      Major problems all over the field. Earlier in the season it was easy to pin all our pains on the midfield, but with each game that passes its clear that the midfield is a problem, but not the reason why we are so poor.

      First of all, we have bursts of energy in between long periods of sleep walking around the field. The 11 players seemed to be switched off mentally and for some others also physically. Yesterday, it was Alisson who ended up making the costly mistake in his own box, but before that Konate, Matip, Thiago and Fabinho (those I can remember) all gave away the ball very easily around or inside the box at least once each. This continued to happen in the second half and it ultimately led to Wolve's second. Konate gave the ball in the most silly fashion at the edge of the box (left side) which allowed Wolve's to keep the pressure, switch the play and score.

      Defending is just not up to par and it starts with the forwards displaying a pretty bad if not heartless press. Not sustained and very inconsistent (I think the manager spoke about it after last game. With that said, going through our midfield is like going around a cone. The 3 midfielders are either static or they run around the ball holder without ever making a challenge and let him freely move around and dispatch the wanted pass. Yes Fabinho is bad, but I think the work rate and especially the defending of the two players around him completely sink him. He's constantly lost between running towards the carrier because none of the other two midfielders and wingers pressed them and they are running in acres of space or try to cover potential receivers. Before he knows it he is pinned against his CBs with little to no space between the ball carrier and the box which ultimately means he has to risk conceding a dangerous free-kick or a penalty, one after the other. Go back and take a look the first half yesterday and you'll see what I mean. I gave the lad a ton of sh*t for months now, but its becoming clearer every game that he can't do his job of sweeping up if he is left to do everything ''denfence'' in the midfield all alone in that much space around so many opposition players.

      This is related to my first point, nobody in the team is press resistant. Not just the midfielder, but everyone from the GK to the striker. Nobody can keep the ball at his feet once pressed. The best we can do is make a back pass or a very safe sideways pass. Nobody can carry it through a press line or pass it through it. This issue is the main one related to the lack of midfield acquisitions. Hendo and Fabinho have never been press resistant midfielders. The only two midfielders we have on paper that possess this attribute is Thiago (mainly through a good first touch and good passing) and Keita (through the ability to carry it through lines). Gini was also very good at that. Now Keita, like we all know, plays an average of one or two games a month which leaves us with Thiago. Most of the time he is good at that, but its expected that he'll have off days like yesterday and when this happens we are 100% helpless in that area of the field. We need, at the very least, two very press resistant midfielders with box to box attributes to be added. Wether this can happen this window, I doubt it, but if it doesn't happen this summer then we are seriously gambling with our short term success chances and in turn our medium and long term chances at success too.

      I could also talk about the frontline, but its always hard to blame the forwards, offensively speaking, when you cannot keep the ball, you cannot create and you spend most of the game punting it towards with about 40 yards of space between them and the nearest supporting midfielder (if not player). However, like I said above their press is also pretty bad, not sustained and very inconsistent.

      Edit: Also, offensively speaking, its hard to give sh*t to our forwards when they managed two goals. Scoring two goals, in football, should always be enough to secure a win for you if you play decent football. Only we don't play decent football.



      When we played the Genga footy we were feared, but we are too old ,says it all these days, and we shot ourselves in the foot by giving Salah his stupid demands... who will buy with that hanging over us? if he was performing fair comment, but this season resting on his wages
      Robby The Z
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #594: Jan 08, 2023 11:27:20 pm
      That would be nice…. But even he is 31 soon and would be on our long list of players needed replacing.

      I think two midfielders would be a start. I can’t see bellingham signing if we don’t finish top 4….
      In that case I wouldn’t mind Maddison and rice.

      What I would do now for an alonso mascherano gerrard engine.

      I don't know, those guys are way older than Fab, Thiago and Hendo.  ;D
      AussieRed
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #595: Jan 09, 2023 12:20:56 am
      For fucks sake, another abysmal performance.

      Don't know where we go from here but hopefully it's an upward trend.

      It's heartbreaking seeing the same lads that won us so many games and competitions and trophies, just look mentally fu**ed.

      Everytime the oppo gets the ball, I fear the worst. And it wasn't just this game.

      I love you Ali and for me you are the best Keeper in the World but how you don't see their player at the top of the box, had me screaming rigged!!!


      P.S someone mentioned it before, a few pages back, no one fears coming to Anfioeld anymore, they look forward to it.

      Another prime example of it was their bloke Kwan, hasn't scored for 30 games going back 2 years, no worries lad, come to Anfield, start on the bench, we will throw you on later and you will get that goal!!!  How many times we seen that happen to us? Players don't score for ages, come to Anfield and get a goal!!! They then going back to doing f**k all till they play us again!!!



      PolarBearRed
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #596: Jan 09, 2023 03:09:58 am
      When we played the Genga footy we were feared, but we are too old ,says it all these days, and we shot ourselves in the foot by giving Salah his stupid demands... who will buy with that hanging over us? if he was performing fair comment, but this season resting on his wages
      I dont see it. Salah, when its all said and done, is still our best forward despite the team playing the way it is. Matter of fact, after Alisson I'd argue he is our second best player of the season. 23 goal involvements in 26 games played for the club this season. Those are world class numbers. Pinning what we are seeing on one issue, let alone one player, is pure folly. Mo got his contract and despite looking lacklustre, he is delivering and the numbers back that up. Is there even anything of quality being produced for him consistently and he is waisting it in front of goal? He's producing those numbers in a season where the team is so disjointed its hard to even sit there and watch them play for more than a half and he started the season under what seemed to be instructions to stay pinned to the touch line (remember that whole saga?).

      Beyond the never ending ''should we blame all our problems on Salah?'' debate, like I said, we can't look at our forwards and try to pin this on any of them when they regularly scored 2+ goals  a game (miraculously so I would add) for us this season and we still found ways to drop 2 if not all the points in most of the games we played. Any team that regularly requires more than 2 goals to have a chance at winning a game is simply not performing well enough in other areas to even hope to have any success.

      Had they let Salah leave we would have people saying this is ''small club mentality'' and we let out star player go + we would've signed a replacement RW who I can almost guarantee would not be getting anywhere near the numbers Salah is putting up for us this season so far and people would have one more issue to be moaning about and we'd still have the same problem about how the team is completely sleep walking through huge portions of every game + no midfielders to solve our crisis in that area.
      Don77
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      Re: Liverpool 2-2 Wolves: In game and post match discussion
      Reply #597: Jan 09, 2023 03:42:36 am
      When we played the Genga footy we were feared, but we are too old ,says it all these days, and we shot ourselves in the foot by giving Salah his stupid demands... who will buy with that hanging over us? if he was performing fair comment, but this season resting on his wages

      Yeahhhh it's all salah's fault. Without Salahs goals and Ali this season we'd be with Everton. We'd be near the bottom.

      We'd be lamenting even more how poor vvd has been all season ... how are right back is comfortably one of the worst defenders in the league week in and f*cking week out. Our midfield that produces the square root of FA defensively or offensively would be called even more into question as would our toothless attack (salah aside) . Maybe our complete lack of depth and being a creche for injury prone mediocrity like Jones keita Ox and Melo would be highlighted even more if we were near the bottom.

      As it is ... yeah its all salah's fault and his contract. Let's get rid of him eh and all will be OK.

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