Is English officiating corrupt?

The hearings into Citygate start on Monday 16th Sept. 115 charges. Could drag on till March.Charges relate to 2009-2018. City deny all charges.

Basically all charges relate to financial fair play rules. Punishments if found guilty. Points deduction for 25/26 seems the most likely outcome. Relegation to the Championship, IMO would be fair. The charges are very serious in the context of sporting justice.

City can obviously appeal if they get their collar felt but they can't have it referred to the CAS (Court of Arbitration).

I’m actually honoured to be called a wooliback and I’ve been a wooliback since 1976, I’m also honoured to be considered a honourable Scouser, thx Harrismo, although i wouldn’t proclaim to be amongst the real McCoy, I’m a Wegie, as we are called from Glasgow ( Glaswegian) , so anyone outside of Glasgow won’t be Wegies, …..

…..anyhoo, as for Dodgy refs and the like….most will know how I feel about the PGMOL…however Paul Tompkins of the Tompkins Times, did a survey of the refs employed by the PGMOL and those in particular from the Greater Manchester area… and his findings are surprising, the fact is that Anthony Taylor came out on top as one of the fairest and more balanced referees in the circus

…I myself was guilty of scolding him in particular until I actually read Tompkins report, and if I’m honest it has changed my perspective totally, now having said that, he is still prone to errors as is all the Refs in the same circus, some more than others,
Tompkins having done all the hard work in his research came up,with the one thing I think most of us will agree with, including some of those Refs, and that is the removal of common sense within the game, Refs are not allowed to use common sense in those situations where it should prevail….in their world it all about being the fairest they can possibly be, that’s fair enough, however it’s not always for the best reasons …

…I still believe that the PGMOL are not fit for purpose, to me they are a closed shop and those who work within are all fed the same doctrines, but every referee is a individual and will have perhaps his own opinion of certain situations so hence the inconsistency we see across the board, if common sense, or more of it were allowed I think most would see that as a positive and decisions made rightly or wrongly would more acceptable, I would also advocate that Refs explain some of their decisions and be Frank and honest if they made a mistake, I believe they would receive more respect from the fans if they did….did you not notice those pigs flying across your screen as I was typing ??


YNWA

Despite repeating all the above garbage again, it made no difference on the day. The reality is we won another game he was in charge of us for, as what usually happens when he is.

Dean is a Scouser, who was ref or VAR in a fair number of our games, once he made it clear which team he supported. He once refereed us against them afterwards. Despite the fact that we were clearly up against 12 men that night, we won the game 6-0.

The reality is, Jones is not as good a ref as Taylor or Oliver or Attwell, therefore he gets less high profile games to officiate every week than they do.

In which case, that covers a population of about 60m people. All apparantly corrupt, none of whom can be trusted. 

The reality on the ground, is completely different.

They're just sh*t and incompetent!!

I’m actually honoured to be called a wooliback and I’ve been a wooliback since 1976, I’m also honoured to be considered a honourable Scouser, thx Harrismo, although i wouldn’t proclaim to be amongst the real McCoy, I’m a Wegie, as we are called from Glasgow ( Glaswegian) , so anyone outside of Glasgow won’t be Wegies, …..

…..anyhoo, as for Dodgy refs and the like….most will know how I feel about the PGMOL…however Paul Tompkins of the Tompkins Times, did a survey of the refs employed by the PGMOL and those in particular from the Greater Manchester area… and his findings are surprising, the fact is that Anthony Taylor came out on top as one of the fairest and more balanced referees in the circus

…I myself was guilty of scolding him in particular until I actually read Tompkins report, and if I’m honest it has changed my perspective totally, now having said that, he is still prone to errors as is all the Refs in the same circus, some more than others,
Tompkins having done all the hard work in his research came up,with the one thing I think most of us will agree with, including some of those Refs, and that is the removal of common sense within the game, Refs are not allowed to use common sense in those situations where it should prevail….in their world it all about being the fairest they can possibly be, that’s fair enough, however it’s not always for the best reasons …

…I still believe that the PGMOL are not fit for purpose, to me they are a closed shop and those who work within are all fed the same doctrines, but every referee is a individual and will have perhaps his own opinion of certain situations so hence the inconsistency we see across the board, if common sense, or more of it were allowed I think most would see that as a positive and decisions made rightly or wrongly would more acceptable, I would also advocate that Refs explain some of their decisions and be Frank and honest if they made a mistake, I believe they would receive more respect from the fans if they did….did you not notice those pigs flying across your screen as I was typing ??


YNWA

Bout time you were eatin some of your own aggis pie. 🤪 You’ve had more good decisions than bad when Antony Taylor refereeing your matches, yet this thread slates him as a biased manc. Usual blah blah blah with you lot. 🖕🖕🖕

Bout time you were eatin some of your own aggis pie. 🤪 You’ve had more good decisions than bad when Antony Taylor refereeing your matches, yet this thread slates him as a biased manc. Usual blah blah blah with you lot. 🖕🖕🖕

And there you have it kids, the dangers of drinking on an empty head.

And there you have it kids, the dangers of drinking on an empty head.

Better than Forest  beating you lot. 

Clattenberg may not be corrupt but he's opened a can of worms with his comments there now.

Evening a game up isn't a referees job.

Clattenberg may not be corrupt but he's opened a can of worms with his comments there now.

Evening a game up isn't a referees job.

Just came on here to say that. Pretty amazing insight into the mindset of an English referee.

"He needs to give that to keep the crowd quiet otherwise they'll get on his back."

And then "You've got to even it up cos Milan are getting upset"

What the actual F**k. Can't believe he said that out loud.

Just came on here to say that. Pretty amazing insight into the mindset of an English referee.

"He needs to give that to keep the crowd quiet otherwise they'll get on his back."

And then "You've got to even it up cos Milan are getting upset"

What the actual F**k. Can't believe he said that out loud.

Heard it and though yes your all bent

https://www.lawyer-monthly.com/2024/09/manchester-citys-court-hearing-begins/

Expected to last 10 weeks or so. M' learned friends on a huge pay day no doubt.

Just came on here to say that. Pretty amazing insight into the mindset of an English referee.

"He needs to give that to keep the crowd quiet otherwise they'll get on his back."

And then "You've got to even it up cos Milan are getting upset"

What the actual F**k. Can't believe he said that out loud.

I mean I don't doubt that some Refs do bend to the pressure.They're obviously human etc. But yes to say it out loud beggars belief. Ref booked their manager over a penalty claim...clear dive...and overall the Ref did a decent job.

Clatter once gave us 3 penalties at Old Trafford. Gerrard I think scored 2 but hit the post with the third.

https://metro.co.uk/2014/03/16/demoralised-manchester-united-embarrassed-by-title-chasing-liverpool-at-old-trafford-4608842/

In any game of football a referee will almost always call a number of things incorrectly...they will be mostly incidents of little consequence, if any at all...for example a push in the back near the halfway line....it could have been a foul but ref doesn't give it. Five minutes later the other side pushes a player in the back in a similar incident, perhaps a tad more forcibly...it could be a foul...but it is of so little importance to the result of the game, that the ref would likely decide no foul...It prevents any sense of injustice for the players and the crowd.

In any game of football a referee will almost always call a number of things incorrectly...they will be mostly incidents of little consequence, if any at all...for example a push in the back near the halfway line....it could have been a foul but ref doesn't give it. Five minutes later the other side pushes a player in the back in a similar incident, perhaps a tad more forcibly...it could be a foul...but it is of so little importance to the result of the game, that the ref would likely decide no foul...It prevents any sense of injustice for the players and the crowd.

A wrong decision isn’t made right with another wrong decision.

A wrong decision isn’t made right with another wrong decision.

Two wrongs don't make a right as Phil Thompson once told Carra, after a fan threw a coin at him. Carra picked it up and threw it back into the crowd.

Hard to know if Refs do sometimes try to get a balance and give a decision to even it up a bit. Almost every situation can lead to a significant passage of play. I would think Refs be far better off giving every decision on it's merit.

Talking to a City fan who actually admitted the Doku 'foul' on Mac was a clear penalty. As to why Oliver thought it was a coming together is a mystery.Since when is boot in the chest a 'coming together'.

I’m actually honoured to be called a wooliback and I’ve been a wooliback since 1976, I’m also honoured to be considered a honourable Scouser, thx Harrismo, although i wouldn’t proclaim to be amongst the real McCoy, I’m a Wegie, as we are called from Glasgow ( Glaswegian) , so anyone outside of Glasgow won’t be Wegies, …..

…..anyhoo, as for Dodgy refs and the like….most will know how I feel about the PGMOL…however Paul Tompkins of the Tompkins Times, did a survey of the refs employed by the PGMOL and those in particular from the Greater Manchester area… and his findings are surprising, the fact is that Anthony Taylor came out on top as one of the fairest and more balanced referees in the circus

…I myself was guilty of scolding him in particular until I actually read Tompkins report, and if I’m honest it has changed my perspective totally, now having said that, he is still prone to errors as is all the Refs in the same circus, some more than others,
Tompkins having done all the hard work in his research came up,with the one thing I think most of us will agree with, including some of those Refs, and that is the removal of common sense within the game, Refs are not allowed to use common sense in those situations where it should prevail….in their world it all about being the fairest they can possibly be, that’s fair enough, however it’s not always for the best reasons …

…I still believe that the PGMOL are not fit for purpose, to me they are a closed shop and those who work within are all fed the same doctrines, but every referee is a individual and will have perhaps his own opinion of certain situations so hence the inconsistency we see across the board, if common sense, or more of it were allowed I think most would see that as a positive and decisions made rightly or wrongly would more acceptable, I would also advocate that Refs explain some of their decisions and be Frank and honest if they made a mistake, I believe they would receive more respect from the fans if they did….did you not notice those pigs flying across your screen as I was typing ??


YNWA

Privilege to have such a knowlegeable and articulate poster and all round genuine bloke as an 'honorary scouser'. Although you must have a Scottish team that you look out for. As with Scott from Planes,Trains and Everything are you a closet St Mirren fan. My Scottish team is Brechin City. Followed them for years.Struggling a bit as they are now in the Highlands League. But we're top at the minute.

As it happens I do get to Scotland a fair bit as my son lives in BOFA...Bridge of Allan.

A wrong decision isn’t made right with another wrong decision.

Any decision, right or wrong can't be made right or wrong by another decision. Nothing in the past can be changed. I'm talking about those minor indiscretions that happen all the time....They don't affect the game...but if a referee kept giving those minor calls to one side over another it would be perceived as unfairly biased...so they even them up.

Any decision, right or wrong can't be made right or wrong by another decision. Nothing in the past can be changed. I'm talking about those minor indiscretions that happen all the time....They don't affect the game...but if a referee kept giving those minor calls to one side over another it would be perceived as unfairly biased...so they even them up.

Obviously they do affect the game or there would be no need to even them up and they won't be perceived as unfairly biased.

Obviously they do affect the game or there would be no need to even them up and they won't be perceived as unfairly biased.

I don't agree with you. There are loads of, let's call them "a coming together" they might be a foul, they might not be....it's not clear. The kind of incident where a pundit might say "there's not enough in that for me"...it's ambiguous, vague...call it what you like. They are minor incidents, and the reason referee's ( possibly subconsciously ) even them up is to appease the crowd (and the players). If you think that everything that happens on a football pitch affects the game, then you're in cloud cuckoo land.

I don't agree with you. There are loads of, let's call them "a coming together" they might be a foul, they might not be....it's not clear. The kind of incident where a pundit might say "there's not enough in that for me"...it's ambiguous, vague...call it what you like. They are minor incidents, and the reason referee's ( possibly subconsciously ) even them up is to appease the crowd (and the players). If you think that everything that happens on a football pitch affects the game, then you're in cloud cuckoo land.

I'm not sure what your argument is. "Coming together" can certainly be adjudicated to be a foul or not a foul based on the rules that are in place. There is no gray area. You must have Stockholm Syndrome from so many years of inconsistency by referees. Has nothing to do with whether what happens affects the game, it obviously affects the game because any given or not given foul has an effect on the flow of the game. That's just elementary.

I'm not sure what your argument is. "Coming together" can certainly be adjudicated to be a foul or not a foul based on the rules that are in place. There is no gray area. You must have Stockholm Syndrome from so many years of inconsistency by referees. Has nothing to do with whether what happens affects the game, it obviously affects the game because any given or not given foul has an effect on the flow of the game. That's just elementary.

Agree that every decision has the ability to affect a game of football. One small decision can lead to an even more important one if it's called one way or another.

Clattenberg was actually saying the ref should have gave a decision to Milan as he 'missed' one that possibly was against them in order to get the crowd onside.

That in my book is as far away from what a referee should be doing as you can get.

You call the game as you see it rightly or wrongly irrespective of the crowd and how it might affect them

Privilege to have such a knowlegeable and articulate poster and all round genuine bloke as an 'honorary scouser'. Although you must have a Scottish team that you look out for. As with Scott from Planes,Trains and Everything are you a closet St Mirren fan. My Scottish team is Brechin City. Followed them for years.Struggling a bit as they are now in the Highlands League. But we're top at the minute.

As it happens I do get to Scotland a fair bit as my son lives in BOFA...Bridge of Allan.

Fcuk sake Harris that's all we need is you giving Billy buster some cred   

In any game of football a referee will almost always call a number of things incorrectly...they will be mostly incidents of little consequence, if any at all...for example a push in the back near the halfway line....it could have been a foul but ref doesn't give it. Five minutes later the other side pushes a player in the back in a similar incident, perhaps a tad more forcibly...it could be a foul...but it is of so little importance to the result of the game, that the ref would likely decide no foul...It prevents any sense of injustice for the players and the crowd.

You're conflating 2 different things. You're right there can be grey areas. And if a ref gives a "50/50" decision one way and then a minute later there's another 50/50 and he gives it the other way to kind of balance it up then I don't have a problem with that.

And that was what Shearer basically meant when he mentioned "well he won't give that one cos he didn't give the other one". No big deal. But then Clatters jumps in with - he needs to even it up to quiten the crowd down! Er, no. It is not the refs job to quiten the bloody crowd down! To state the obvious. That is not a reason for making ANY decision.

So I'm sitting thinking haha he's let the cat out of the bag there, and expecting him to start trying to back out of it. But instead he doubles down on it a minute later and starts saying the refs got to give Milan a decision cos they're starting to get upset!

That is not him saying he should even up a 50/50. He was literally saying the ref should be influenced by the crowd, and then by the club. He wasn't even saying "it's human nature, refs sometimes do that". He literally said they SHOULD do it.

[The ref on the pitch was actually very good. A lot better than Clattenberg and the PGMOL troop of clowns.]

Privilege to have such a knowlegeable and articulate poster and all round genuine bloke as an 'honorary scouser'. Although you must have a Scottish team that you look out for. As with Scott from Planes,Trains and Everything are you a closet St Mirren fan. My Scottish team is Brechin City. Followed them for years.Struggling a bit as they are now in the Highlands League. But we're top at the minute.

As it happens I do get to Scotland a fair bit as my son lives in BOFA...Bridge of Allan.

Scott is a good guy, like the Planes Trains And Everything, pity he supports the black & white sh*te. My Scottish team is their nearest rivals Greenock Morton, and they are really sh*te this season.