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      Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion

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      Longy-Shops
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #414: Dec 27, 2023 01:43:56 pm
      I have no reason to disbelieve that you honestly think Manchester based refs/officials are deliberately engaged in some kind of organised mutiny against our club. You, and others on this forum might be right, and it could be true, but like most things it can't be inferred by feeling, or emotion, it can only be proven two ways: either by statistics, or by the individuals themselves admitting it. If there is "independent" evidence, that shows a clear pattern of decisions by those officials acting against Liverpool, in comparison to decisions for and against other clubs, then that would be suspicious and signal a reason to further investigate how and why that's happening...I suspect this unpredudiced proof doesn't (yet) exist....or if it does then I haven't seen it.
      There's been multitudes of op-ed's, and books written explaining why rational people believe conspiracy theories; one, (of many) reason(s) is when people belong to a group (ie This Forum) then it's more comfortable to go along with the "corruption" narrative, than to stand out, potentially making yourself look "Out of touch"...It explains why a Trump supporting lawyer, (by definition ,bright) would believe in the QAnon theory that the World is controlled by Satan- worshipping child molesters....except they(most) don't really think it...it just suits their Political profile, we are different...we are radical...we don't conform etc. It's all based around what they call "Blue lies" first identified by police collectively lying and covering up for each other...They know it's untrue but it suits their stance....much the same as the Dodgy Manc ref theory suits ours.
      sore monad
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #415: Dec 27, 2023 02:26:20 pm
      Strangely enough, it was in Serie A, and the snooker. Why would EPL officials be exempt. They're all human, and all have a price. I'm not saying it is definitely going on, I'm just saying don't count it out.

      Yeah exactly.  It's been proven to happen in other leagues. The real magical thinking is saying it couldn't possibly happen here.

      Like yourself, I don't know if it's incompetence, bias or corruption. But the last is perfectly possible.

      Whatever it is, the standard of officiating isn't good enough. They need to start binning officials who show that they, for whatever reason, aren't fit for the job.
      Don77
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #416: Dec 27, 2023 02:26:54 pm
      There was a piece that came out after the rodri handball that cost us the league. I'll have to try and find it

      But it basically said city had a 90% plus win ratio in 20 games with Tierney reffing and we had about 50% from 23 games. City had 6 big decisions in their favor whereas we had none and 4 against.

      Yeah ... People are entitled to look at the 'dodgy manc ref' as an excuse. I look at the manc ref and what he's done to us over the years a little differently. Let's see how we get on against Newcastle with Anthony Taylor.

      I'm amazed Oliver is allowed to ref/var games that affect Newcastle when he's a rabid Newcastle fan.
      stuey
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #417: Dec 27, 2023 02:50:13 pm
      The first disallowed goal. Tierney knew there was no foul. But he knows once he gives it the var won't overturn the onfield decision or ask him to goto the monitor. Its so bent and obvious its untrue.

      Absolutely no foul, he threw himself to the ground. 
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #418: Dec 27, 2023 03:21:53 pm
      There was a piece that came out after the rodri handball that cost us the league. I'll have to try and find it

      But it basically said city had a 90% plus win ratio in 20 games with Tierney reffing and we had about 50% from 23 games. City had 6 big decisions in their favor whereas we had none and 4 against.

      Yeah ... People are entitled to look at the 'dodgy manc ref' as an excuse. I look at the manc ref and what he's done to us over the years a little differently. Let's see how we get on against Newcastle with Anthony Taylor.

      I'm amazed Oliver is allowed to ref/var games that affect Newcastle when he's a rabid Newcastle fan.
      I remember writing at the time about the Rodri/Everton incident costing us the league...Hard as it was to believe, but it was human error, albeit consistent with an element of unconscious bias..ie the timing of the incident...Man City's profile and position in the table, all these things play a part in how the referee forms a judgement.
      The stats you put forward are too small a data set as to be ongoing verification....Who's to say City wouldn't have won those games with other referee's?
      Anyway it's all just a load of natter on a football forum...Everything we think has no baring or influence on what happens in the Real world.
      Have a great day
      ruthcity
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #419: Dec 27, 2023 03:30:31 pm
      Everyone calm down. No one died as a result poor officiating. Neither does the PGMOL think what is discussed here is a big deal. The fact is they robbed us of points and we can talk. At best they’ll issue us a public apology and sweep everything under the carpet.

      You think everything ends here? The same cycle will repeat itself again and again. One day a red, another day a pen, some other day a hand, and the next day a check complete. They will argue till they are right. They’re the authority anyway. Wtf…  :f_steam:
      Don77
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #420: Dec 27, 2023 04:56:42 pm
      I remember writing at the time about the Rodri/Everton incident costing us the league...Hard as it was to believe, but it was human error, albeit consistent with an element of unconscious bias..ie the timing of the incident...Man City's profile and position in the table, all these things play a part in how the referee forms a judgement.
      The stats you put forward are too small a data set as to be ongoing verification....Who's to say City wouldn't have won those games with other referee's?
      Anyway it's all just a load of natter on a football forum...Everything we think has no baring or influence on what happens in the Real world.
      Have a great day

      At the time fraudiola's win % was about 76%. Over 90% with Tierney in charge. Only 50% for us during a period when we won almost every game. That tells its own story. We won almost every game but when Tierney reffed us it was 50%. Its no coincidence. Klopp knows what he is ... he just can't say it.

      The rodri thing wasn't human error. One Manchester referee didn't want to give it and the Manchester var despite watching what everyone else did didn't want to give it either. That's not a mistake/human error. It's just blatant bias/corruption.

      I think it was Taylor who gave them another joke pen in a 1-0 win against wolves.

      Longy-Shops
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #421: Dec 27, 2023 06:52:51 pm
      At the time fraudiola's win % was about 76%. Over 90% with Tierney in charge. Only 50% for us during a period when we won almost every game. That tells its own story. We won almost every game but when Tierney reffed us it was 50%. Its no coincidence. Klopp knows what he is ... he just can't say it.

      The rodri thing wasn't human error. One Manchester referee didn't want to give it and the Manchester var despite watching what everyone else did didn't want to give it either. That's not a mistake/human error. It's just blatant bias/corruption.

      I think it was Taylor who gave them another joke pen in a 1-0 win against wolves.
      I'm sorry mate but again those kinds of data are too narrow to be conclusive of corruption. Let's start with your first point. You say Guardiola's win percentage was 76%, but over how many games is that?...I would suspect somewhere in there you'd find a ref who ref'd one game they won...in which case City won 100% of games with him in charge....was he corrupt in allowing City to win? of course not. As for percentage wins with Tierney; He'd have to ref the exact number of matches as all the other ref's combined to give you an accurate outcome, and proof of bias, or corruption.
      I don't want to get overly reliant on quoting areas of cognitive science...but, human beings, all of us, have a built in mental mechanism in which we will look for and find the evidence that supports the point of view we are advancing...equally, we disregard the evidence that doesn't support it.
      I have no problem with people believing anything they want...some people believe in ghost's...others even believe Everton will win the champions League....Strange thing, the Mind.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #422: Dec 27, 2023 06:56:54 pm
      I just can't be arsed crying about "corruption" cos you'd only end up sounding like an Evertonian.

      And no one wants to sound like an Evertonian :laugh:
      FL Red
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #423: Dec 27, 2023 06:59:27 pm
      I just can't be arsed crying about "corruption" cos you'd only end up sounding like an Evertonian.

      And no one wants to sound like an Evertonian :laugh:

      It’s not crying, just calling a ♠️ a ♠️ 😉
      clint_call01
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #424: Dec 27, 2023 07:54:51 pm
      Nunez's never fouled the defender for Gakpo's disallowed goal. Darwin did worse 10 minutes before and the referee was happy with it.

      To be fair, for Elliott's goal, Salah interfered the keeper but Salah was pushed into that position and two, their keeper would not have saved it nonetheless.

      The system tried to f*** us up but it blow in their own face this time.
      Don77
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #425: Dec 27, 2023 07:55:52 pm
      I'm sorry mate but again those kinds of data are too narrow to be conclusive of corruption. Let's start with your first point. You say Guardiola's win percentage was 76%, but over how many games is that?...I would suspect somewhere in there you'd find a ref who ref'd one game they won...in which case City won 100% of games with him in charge....was he corrupt in allowing City to win? of course not. As for percentage wins with Tierney; He'd have to ref the exact number of matches as all the other ref's combined to give you an accurate outcome, and proof of bias, or corruption.
      I don't want to get overly reliant on quoting areas of cognitive science...but, human beings, all of us, have a built in mental mechanism in which we will look for and find the evidence that supports the point of view we are advancing...equally, we disregard the evidence that doesn't support it.
      I have no problem with people believing anything they want...some people believe in ghost's...others even believe Everton will win the champions League....Strange thing, the Mind.


      Just funny over a period where we won every game pretty much ... over 90% it was only 50% with Tierney in charge. Whereas city who also won 90% stayed at 90% with Tierney in charge. Its just coincidence eh. We must have had performance dysfunction at the sight of Paul Tierney. Nothing to do with him doing everything he can to have us off. OK. Klopp must be moaning at nothing with regard to Paul Tierney.

      But as you say ... the mind is a strange thing. The mind doesn't want to believe the game they love is corrupt.  It doesn't want to believe a ref born 3 miles from the etihad would favour a Manchester team. He supports Altrincham kavanagh I suppose. And Tierney and Taylor etc probably don't like like football.
      Don77
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #426: Dec 27, 2023 08:00:21 pm
      I just can't be arsed crying about "corruption" cos you'd only end up sounding like an Evertonian.

      And no one wants to sound like an Evertonian :laugh:

      Fair enough fella. Let's just leave it at that eh. The game is squeaky clean. There is no agenda against us. They're all just mistakes that happen to benefit our competitors who happen to play in the same city these refs come from. All a much about nothing.

      Don't want to see any moaning on here next time it happens with these fellas in the middle or on var ...or the time after that ... and the time after that ... and when it takes another title of us. Just call it a mistaaaaake accept the half arsed sorry not sorry from them and pretend it's all legitimate.
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #427: Dec 27, 2023 09:08:55 pm
      Just funny over a period where we won every game pretty much ... over 90% it was only 50% with Tierney in charge. Whereas city who also won 90% stayed at 90% with Tierney in charge. Its just coincidence eh. We must have had performance dysfunction at the sight of Paul Tierney. Nothing to do with him doing everything he can to have us off. OK. Klopp must be moaning at nothing with regard to Paul Tierney.

      But as you say ... the mind is a strange thing. The mind doesn't want to believe the game they love is corrupt.  It doesn't want to believe a ref born 3 miles from the etihad would favour a Manchester team. He supports Altrincham kavanagh I suppose. And Tierney and Taylor etc probably don't like like football.
      [/quote
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #428: Dec 27, 2023 09:09:37 pm
      I have an open mind on it...but until I see unbiased evidence, as opposed to some questionable coincidences I'll remain sceptical.
      As I say....who cares a toss...there's literally nothing we can do about any of it.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #429: Dec 27, 2023 09:26:54 pm
      It’s not crying, just calling a ♠️ a ♠️ 😉

      Is it bollocks, it's pure bitter Evertonian behaviour cryarsing about "corruption."

      Leave it to the those muppets and rejoice being top of the league. Trust me it's better for the soul ;)
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #430: Dec 27, 2023 09:31:45 pm
      Fair enough fella. Let's just leave it at that eh. The game is squeaky clean. There is no agenda against us. They're all just mistakes that happen to benefit our competitors who happen to play in the same city these refs come from. All a much about nothing.

      Don't want to see any moaning on here next time it happens with these fellas in the middle or on var ...or the time after that ... and the time after that ... and when it takes another title of us. Just call it a mistaaaaake accept the half arsed sorry not sorry from them and pretend it's all legitimate.

      What the F**k are you going to do about it exactly?

      F**k all other than bi*ch and you end up sounding like those crying tw*ts after the 10 point deduction.

      No wonder other fans take the piss out of us about being "offended about everything"

      Despite all that supposed corruption, we're top of the league, I'd rather take the positive from that than act like a bitter blueshite.
      FL Red
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #431: Dec 27, 2023 09:43:42 pm
      I have an open mind on it...but until I see unbiased evidence, as opposed to some questionable coincidences I'll remain sceptical.
      As I say....who cares a toss...there's literally nothing we can do about any of it.

      Nothing we can do indeed, but interesting coincidences.

      https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/homer-sapiens-refs-vars-and-proving?r=7no6e&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
      RedWilly
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #432: Dec 27, 2023 10:15:57 pm
      What the F**k are you going to do about it exactly?

      F**k all other than bi*ch and you end up sounding like those crying tw*ts after the 10 point deduction.

      No wonder other fans take the piss out of us about being "offended about everything"

      Despite all that supposed corruption, we're top of the league, I'd rather take the positive from that than act like a bitter blueshite.

      End of the day they are owned by a government who the UK has close ties with and are exerting a lot of influence on the world.

      I don’t think there’s an agenda against us specifically but do I think a government would exert significant pressure largely unopposed to make sure their high profile team is successful…absolutely. The UAE and Saudi don’t own clubs cos they love the sport do they.

      If they don’t mind chopping up journo’s in foreign XI tries for criticising them then I think it’s safe to assume they are happy to bend the rules of a sport they couldn’t give a F**k about and is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #433: Dec 27, 2023 10:42:55 pm
      End of the day they are owned by a government who the UK has close ties with and are exerting a lot of influence on the world.

      I don’t think there’s an agenda against us specifically but do I think a government would exert significant pressure largely unopposed to make sure their high profile team is successful…absolutely. The UAE and Saudi don’t own clubs cos they love the sport do they.

      If they don’t mind chopping up journo’s in foreign XI tries for criticising them then I think it’s safe to assume they are happy to bend the rules of a sport they couldn’t give a F**k about and is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

      Agree, but it's down to the authorities/media to nail the cu*ts, unfortunately as I've just heard arl Hodgie say on Sky, you don't always get what you deserve in football.

      Other than that what is constantly moaning about them gonna achieve. Just hope our lads rattle the cu*ts at our place.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #434: Dec 27, 2023 10:43:51 pm
      End of the day they are owned by a government who the UK has close ties with and are exerting a lot of influence on the world.

      I don’t think there’s an agenda against us specifically but do I think a government would exert significant pressure largely unopposed to make sure their high profile team is successful…absolutely. The UAE and Saudi don’t own clubs cos they love the sport do they.

      If they don’t mind chopping up journo’s in foreign XI tries for criticising them then I think it’s safe to assume they are happy to bend the rules of a sport they couldn’t give a F**k about and is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

      Agree, but it's down to the authorities/media to nail the cu*ts, unfortunately as I've just heard arl Hodgie say on Sky, you don't always get what you deserve in football.

      Other than that what is constantly moaning about them gonna achieve. Other than making us sound like conspiracy nutjobs. Just hope our lads rattle the cu*ts at our place.
      Longy-Shops
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #435: Dec 27, 2023 11:12:34 pm
      I think I may have said this before but this article can't be trusted as non-partisan...The guy even writes "While I clearly have a Liverpool FC bias and focus, this is all objective data." That sentence is a contradiction in itself.
      Again, let me say, refereeing is poor in the Premier League and for all I know we get more than our fair share of sh*tty calls...but even that doesn't prove there's a conspiracy by whoever to F. us.  I'm sure if there was conclusive data to prove it then the club would have brought attention to it.
      ruthcity
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      Re: Burnley 0-2 Liverpool: In game and Post Match discussion
      Reply #436: Dec 28, 2023 12:09:59 am
      "While I clearly have a Liverpool FC bias and focus, this is all objective data." That sentence is a contradiction in itself.

      You’re correct about contradiction in the sense that the two words biased and objective which are completely opposites do not go well together.

      But if we take a step back, there’s no contradiction on the overall statement and it’s clear. Contextually, what he’s saying is that he may make arguments in favour of us. But he uses fair and factual data to back his claims including not omitting other crucial data to put his points across. So his points are fair and consistent. And if they do prove in favour of us, we cannot say that he “engineered” his view.

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