José "Pepe" Reina (Liverpool -> Bayern Munich -> Napoli)

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he HAS looked incredible this preseason.   

If you disagree you must not have been watching our games.

Get your prejudices about our players out of your brain and watch them for how they play.

For example, Lucas was atrocious last season and I was one of his biggest critics---this preseason he looks a completely different player.

Coates looks quicker, better on the ball, more aggressive in the air, he's been our best CB this preseason.

I think this is a little unfair. You've displayed a fair few prejudices about some players and that hasn't prevented you from commenting.

Everyone on here is entitled to an opinion. You have a prejudices against Mignolet, and by all means you should be allowed to express those opinions. But to call someone else up on it, seems a bit harsh

I think this is a little unfair. You've displayed a fair few prejudices about some players and that hasn't prevented you from commenting.  You have a prejudices against Mignolet, and by all means you should be allowed to express those opinions.

I don't have a prejudice against Mignolet.  I just think he's not done enough to prove that he should be our number one keeper.  I don't have "prejudices" against any players.  What I have a prejudice against is players who are awful.  And yet, I am totally willing to change my mind on that.  Henderson was absolutely wretched for nearly 2 and a half years, and then suddenly he became undroppable around Christmas time last season.  What a turnaround.  Joseph Allen similarly has been poor since he came, and had some good performances on the back of last season.  Lucas was probably our worst player last season, but in pre-season he looks a different player, really controlling the game, and---dare I say---looking mobile!  I am willing to change my mind if the player's form improves.

So I have no prejudice against Mignolet.  And you have no guarantee that his form will improve.  At the VERY least he needs competition, someone who could justifiably push Mignolet or even overtake him.  That player is not Brad Jones.

And yet, we've got a keeper already on the books, no transfer fee needed to buy a new one, he's a top keeper, he played under Rodgers already so he knows the system, etc etc.  His name is Pepe Reina.  And he's not even being considered, despite Rodgers saying just a year ago that we need serious competition at keeper.  So, what, do we not need competition now?  did Mignolet prove without a shadow of a doubt last season that he doesn't need competition?  I think not.

So why keep looking when what we have is right under our noses?  or rather, sitting behind Rodgers on a bench, not even dressed for the games.

I really don't get it.  Is Pepe the best keeper in the world?---no.  He even had a really awful season before he went off to Napoli, not just mistakes but actually not even diving on some balls that were at least worth a try to go for.  Lord knows I am not his biggest fan.

But SURELY he is at LEAST as good as Mignolet, who isn't exactly a world beater. 

I don't have a prejudice against Mignolet.  I just think he's not done enough to prove that he should be our number one keeper.  I don't have "prejudices" against any players.  What I have a prejudice against is players who are awful.  And yet, I am totally willing to change my mind on that.  Henderson was absolutely wretched for nearly 2 and a half years, and then suddenly he became undroppable around Christmas time last season.  What a turnaround.  Joseph Allen similarly has been poor since he came, and had some good performances on the back of last season.  Lucas was probably our worst player last season, but in pre-season he looks a different player, really controlling the game, and---dare I say---looking mobile!  I am willing to change my mind if the player's form improves.

So I have no prejudice against Mignolet.  And you have no guarantee that his form will improve.  At the VERY least he needs competition, someone who could justifiably push Mignolet or even overtake him.  That player is not Brad Jones.

And yet, we've got a keeper already on the books, no transfer fee needed to buy a new one, he's a top keeper, he played under Rodgers already so he knows the system, etc etc.  His name is Pepe Reina.  And he's not even being considered, despite Rodgers saying just a year ago that we need serious competition at keeper.  So, what, do we not need competition now?  did Mignolet prove without a shadow of a doubt last season that he doesn't need competition?  I think not.

So why keep looking when what we have is right under our noses?  or rather, sitting behind Rodgers on a bench, not even dressed for the games.

I really don't get it.  Is Pepe the best keeper in the world?---no.  He even had a really awful season before he went off to Napoli, not just mistakes but actually not even diving on some balls that were at least worth a try to go for.  Lord knows I am not his biggest fan.

But SURELY he is at LEAST as good as Mignolet, who isn't exactly a world beater. 

They're good points but I do think there must be something we don't know about the Reina situation as Rodgers isn't stupid enough to know that Reina is at least worth a punt as number two ahead of Jones.

We can blame it solely on money but I don't think that would have denied him a half between the sticks in the US.

"Fall from grace"?  "mentality"?   you act like he's been letting howlers in left and right.  How do you know how good he is right NOW without actually seeing him play?  Coates looked atrocious a couple of seasons ago, he went on loan, and now he looks incredible.  How do you know Pepe hasn't gotten better as well?

Ask yourself this---do you really think that whatever issues Pepe has had, that he is right now a worse keeper than Brad Jones?  of course not.  And yet Jones gets into the team ahead of Pepe, who doesn't even make the bench.

That tells me it really has nothing to do with how good Pepe is or isn't right now, it's either about A) money or B) his beef with Rodgers.  Most likely it's a combination of both.

It's pretty clear that politics are more important than football at the club right now because we obviously need someone to challenge Mignolet or even start ahead of him, we've got a top keeper right now who, while probably not what he once was, is at least as good as Mignolet is.  And yet he doesn't get a chance.

Despite us having been told last summer that Rodgers wanted Pepe to stay so there would be competition between the keepers.  And then they proceeded to unceremoniously ship Pepe out without even telling him to his face.  Yea.  some competition! 

Look Pepe is no Neuer, but he is a top keeper and Mignolet didn't exactly cover himself in glory last season.

that Pepe isn't even getting a chance this season is criminal.

but, the transfer committee appears to have spoken.

Reina is no longer a top keeper. Just look at his match ratings with us his last couple seasons and with Napoli last year. He simply makes too many mistakes and isn't the shot stopper he once was. Mignolet is a guy who has shown potential to be great. He is one of the best shot stoppers in the league already but does make some mistakes controlling his area. The issues he has are things that he will continue to improve upon as he gains more experience and gets older.

Reina is no longer a top keeper.

Sorry but if Reina is not a top keeper then neither is Mignolet.

Top keepers include: Neuer, Courtois, Hart, Weidenfeller, I'd even put players like Begovic and Ter-Stegen in there.

I mean we're Liverpool f**king Football Club.  And now we're back in the CL. 

how are we settling for Mignolet? 

If we think Pepe isn't good enough then so be it, but there's no way anyone here can seriously argue that Mignolet is miles better than Pepe.  Either neither of them is good enough (most likely) or both of them are good enough.

But there's no way you can seriously argue one as being so much better than the other.

And if that is the case, why are we so eager to get shot of Pepe?

it just doesn't make any sense.

Sorry but if Reina is not a top keeper then neither is Mignolet.

Top keepers include: Neuer, Courtois, Hart, Weidenfeller, I'd even put players like Begovic and Ter-Stegen in there.

I mean we're Liverpool f**king Football Club.  And now we're back in the CL. 

how are we settling for Mignolet? 

If we think Pepe isn't good enough then so be it, but there's no way anyone here can seriously argue that Mignolet is miles better than Pepe.  Either neither of them is good enough (most likely) or both of them are good enough.

But there's no way you can seriously argue one as being so much better than the other.

And if that is the case, why are we so eager to get shot of Pepe?

it just doesn't make any sense.

I don't think Mignolet is a top keeper yet (his all around game is still lacking) however I think he is better than Reina. Like I said Mignolet needs to control his area better and distribute the ball better. One thing that cannot be argued though is that Mignolet is one of the best pure shot stoppers in the Prem. This is where Reina really became poor both here and at Napoli. Mignolet will continue to improve his distribution and control of the box. I don't know what happened with Pepe that he stopped making those great diving saves but he simply doesn't do it anymore.

Get your prejudices about our players out of your brain and watch them for how they play.

Hang on Fed - you cant say that with your hatred of players..! Think abut Borini, or Apsas (who has 2 in 2 for his new club) and the rubbish you posted about them..?

On topic, there are rumors (albeit twitter etal) about Pepe wanting to cancel his contract or indeed buy his way out.

I don't have a prejudice against Mignolet.  I just think he's not done enough to prove that he should be our number one keeper.  I don't have "prejudices" against any players.  What I have a prejudice against is players who are awful.  And yet, I am totally willing to change my mind on that.  Henderson was absolutely wretched for nearly 2 and a half years, and then suddenly he became undroppable around Christmas time last season.  What a turnaround.  Joseph Allen similarly has been poor since he came, and had some good performances on the back of last season.  Lucas was probably our worst player last season, but in pre-season he looks a different player, really controlling the game, and---dare I say---looking mobile!  I am willing to change my mind if the player's form improves.

So I have no prejudice against Mignolet.  And you have no guarantee that his form will improve.  At the VERY least he needs competition, someone who could justifiably push Mignolet or even overtake him.  That player is not Brad Jones.

And yet, we've got a keeper already on the books, no transfer fee needed to buy a new one, he's a top keeper, he played under Rodgers already so he knows the system, etc etc.  His name is Pepe Reina.  And he's not even being considered, despite Rodgers saying just a year ago that we need serious competition at keeper.  So, what, do we not need competition now?  did Mignolet prove without a shadow of a doubt last season that he doesn't need competition?  I think not.

So why keep looking when what we have is right under our noses?  or rather, sitting behind Rodgers on a bench, not even dressed for the games.

I really don't get it.  Is Pepe the best keeper in the world?---no.  He even had a really awful season before he went off to Napoli, not just mistakes but actually not even diving on some balls that were at least worth a try to go for.  Lord knows I am not his biggest fan.

But SURELY he is at LEAST as good as Mignolet, who isn't exactly a world beater. 

Fair enough. I agree with you that Jones isn't good enough to challenge Mignolet.

However I don't think LFC is in a position to pay two keepers what Mignolet and Reina will be on.

Find your logic wrong though. Prejudice is 1.opinion formed beforehand: a preformed opinion, usually an unfavorable one, based on insufficient knowledge, irrational feelings, or inaccurate stereotypes

Your constant demeaning of Borini and others do prejudice. But heh, as long as we all want what's best for Liverpool I can understand your position

However I don't think LFC is in a position to pay two keepers what Mignolet and Reina will be on.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head here as Mignolet if I remember correctly is on 40K a week and Reina is on 110K a week or something absurd like that.

Hang on Fed - you cant say that with your hatred of players..! Think abut Borini, or Apsas (who has 2 in 2 for his new club) and the rubbish you posted about them..?

I don't "hate" Borini or Aspas.  I don't "hate" anyone.  Life is very short and hate is a very strong, exhausting emotion.  Borini for example has always come off as a very nice lad in his interviews, articulate, humble, a good head on his shoulder, well balanced etc.  The anti-Balotelli, if you will.  So I don't hate him.  I have no reason to.

What I do hate is us losing.  And in order to win, we have to be better than the teams around us.  Borini showed absolutely nothing during his time thus far to suggest that he is even remotely close to being good enough for our club.  He's a wonderful bloke.  Great!  So is my neighbor.  but he's not good enough to play for Liverpool, and neither is Borini.  We can be Liverpool Nice Bloke Club or we can be Liverpool Football Club and try to win.  And we are only going to win by being ruthless with the players who aren't good enough.  We're starting to do that.

Aspas wasn't good enough.  See ya!  Borini isn't good enough!  See ya (sort of).  that's the way it should be.  now I don't think Mignolet is anywhere near as bad at keeper as Borini is at his own position.  I don't even think he's a bad player at all.  I just think he's not good enough to be our starting keeper, or at the very least he hasn't proved it yet.  And if we are about winning then we should prioritize WINNING, not prioritize developing Mignolet.  This isn't Liverpool Babysitting Club.  You don't learn on the job while being the number 1 keeper at one of the biggest clubs in the world. 

I mean really---why don't we deserve one of the top keepers in the world?  are you telling me Bayern (Neuer), Dortmund (Weidenfeller), City (Hart), Chelsea (Courtois) etc all deserve a world-class keeper, and we don't?  why?  we're Liverpool f**king Football Club. 

Can't believe how he is even being ttreated during pre-season. Even unwanted players usually get at least a couple of run outs. But to even be behind Brad Jones in the pecking order and not play at all musst feel like a right kick in the teeth!

AC Milan are interested in signing Pepe but the 31 year old's wage demands may sink the deal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2714988/Pepe-Reina-wanted-AC-Milan-100-000-week-wages-prevent-deal.html[/news]

Maybe Pepe should smell the coffee, his wage demands were allegedly one of the reasons he was loaned out at Anfield plus he is not exactly in his prime.

AC Milan are interested in signing Pepe but the 31 year old's wage demands may sink the deal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2714988/Pepe-Reina-wanted-AC-Milan-100-000-week-wages-prevent-deal.html[/news]

Maybe Pepe should smell the coffee, his wage demands were allegedly one of the reasons he was loaned out at Anfield plus he is not exactly in his prime.

I do not think his heart was in the club the last season he was here, sad but if we can offload him then so be it.

Can't believe how he is even being ttreated during pre-season. Even unwanted players usually get at least a couple of run outs. But to even be behind Brad Jones in the pecking order and not play at all musst feel like a right kick in the teeth!

Looks like further proof that he is definitely not in BR's plans, his reported refusal to moderate his wage demands increasingly points to financial issues.
That being the case the involvement of his agent comes into question; we all know what self-interested, grubby b***ard, greedy individuals they are who generally put short term reward before anything else, to the detriment of the player.

I do not think his heart was in the club the last season he was here, sad but if we can offload him then so be it.

To be honest Billy he was never the same after Rafa left.

I mean really---why don't we deserve one of the top keepers in the world?  are you telling me Bayern (Neuer), Dortmund (Weidenfeller), City (Hart), Chelsea (Courtois) etc all deserve a world-class keeper, and we don't?  why?  we're Liverpool f**king Football Club. 

I do agree with a lot of what you say - but when looking at 'world class' keepers we have to be clear on what we have and what we want. To look at two of your examples - first of what has Courtois actually done in his short time playing (on loan I might add) at Athleto to prove that he is a 'world class' keeper. Many a poor keeper has won trophies or leagues (Jens Lehmann, De Gea to name some from the prem) so I would not count him on that basis a 'worldie' yet - far from it.

Hart was out of the City and may have been out of the England team for a lot of last season - he is a great shot stopper, but again has his critics. If he was here it would be different no doubt - you would have laid into him.

I cannot comment on the German Keepers, as I don't know enough about them.

Honestly - being a great keeper comes down to a few key moments where they will save your skin and commanding the box on the regular. Minolet needs to do the latter a bit more, but his shot stopping is class.

Renia, towards the end of his time here started to make a few mistakes and was not happy. He is back after saying he wants out for a while and having a pop at the manager. What does he expect to happen..?

plus he is not exactly in his prime.

He's just entered his prime mate.

He may be unfit; he may cost a lot; he may be out of favour but he is in his prime and will be for a few years. It is widely recognised (in footballing circles) that goalkeepers 'peak' later than outfield players... somewhere between 30 - 35. Just saying like.

I believe that Pepe gets a bit of a raw deal from some fans; that (for whatever reason) his prowess and erstwhile importance to Liverpool F.C. is being downplayed in some quarters. I'm not sure that's fair on the man.

Take, for example, Simon's shot-stopping, for Liverpool, last season: we all raved about it; we all remarked how much an improvement it was on Pepe's from the season before. Yet, the truth is; Simon stopped only 68.35% of all shots faced - Pepe [2012/13] - stopped 70.43%.

Listen; all this is irrelevant because (as some will be very quick to point out) if the boss doesn't want you then nothing else matters; certainly not facts and figures.

That much is very true but it doesn't or shouldn't preclude "the most knowledgeable fans in the world" enhancing their knowledge.    

but, the transfer committee appears to have spoken.

The manager also.

I've said many times on here that Brendan doesn't rate Pepe and thought as much even in his first season here so it's no surprise to me how this seems to be turning out.

I rate Pepe but Brendan doesn't which doesn't bother me but what does is that we seem very keen just to ship him out the door for nothing whenever he should command some sort of transfer fee.

He's just entered his prime mate.

He may be unfit; he may cost a lot; he may be out of favour but he is in his prime and will be for a few years. It is widely recognised (in footballing circles) that goalkeepers 'peak' later than outfield players... somewhere between 30 - 35. Just saying like.

See where you're coming from bud and in a general sense so much is true of a keeper's qualities with regard to the over 30 performance level.
What I was alluding to was the fact that a buying club would seek to apply as much negativity to any particular detail in the player's CV in the hope of shaving a few thou off the asking price.
Wages and age would definitely be up for perusal.

I rate Pepe but Brendan doesn't which doesn't bother me but what does is that we seem very keen just to ship him out the door for nothing whenever he should command some sort of transfer fee.

Like Brendan said "Financially it was something that we needed to look at... That [finance] would be the reason (to move Reina) as you wouldn’t move on a top goalkeeper."

A £110k per week contract [2 years left] = £11.5m off the books.

I wish Pepe health, wealth and happiness; wherever he ends up. Thanks for the memories Pepe. 

Like Brendan said "Financially it was something that we needed to look at... That [finance] would be the reason (to move Reina) as you wouldn’t move on a top goalkeeper."

A £110k per week contract [2 years left] = £11.5m off the books.

I wish Pepe health, wealth and happiness; wherever he ends up. Thanks for the memories Pepe. 

I'm not so sure it's totally financial in Pepe's case Mouse.

May be wrong but it's a feeling I've always had that Brendan doesn't quite rate Pepe as much as some of us.

I'm not so sure it's totally financial in Pepe's case Mouse.

I'm only going by what Brendan said mate but to be honest; you are probably right.

That said: moving Pepe on (even for free) saves the club £11.5m and that's the actual point I was making in response to your observation that "we seem very keen just to ship him out the door for nothing". To the club it's not "nothing", if you catch my drift.

It's a new dawn and we move on but in my opinion we shouldn't (in our quest to 'big up' Simon) lose sight of how good Pepe actually was for us. That's all.