Peoples changing views of Rafa

I found this on another forum

Rafa Really Needs To Go

Players in my opinion are more culpable in the overall dip in form of a club than a manager, but in the case of Rafa Benitez I feel it's slightly different. It's one thing to play your best team all the time and lose but it's a completely different thing to play 4-5-1 against Wigan and expect one goal to hold up. Even though they're a relegation side they're still a Premiership side and must be taken seriously. Rafa has simply taken Liverpool as far as he can. He is an excellent cup tactician and the Spanish influence he has brought in to Liverpool has quite literally brought silverware home. But the fact remains that his ceiling as a manager (in England at least) is one cup a year. Liverpool may win the FA Cup; they may even win Europe, but for a franchise with a past (slipping further and further away in the wrinkles of time) of dominating domestic football his skills do not quite fit the bill and are in no way adequate.


Rafa was right when he said Hicks and Gilett do not understand the transfer market. But Mr. Hicks was spot on when he said Rafa needs to concern himself with winning games. You can't hope to win the league and deliberately throw away a game against Reading and you can't inspire players to victory when you publicly state that one point against a Manchester City side debuting the first ever home 4-6-0 formation is peachy keen. Who wants to play hard for a man that is okay with a draw in a title race you are rapidly falling out of?


Obviously all fans think they could manage their club better than the actual manager but I'm sure you could bump in to Joe Everyman and he'd be able to produce more confident displays of personnel management than Mr. Benitez. Today after a shock equalizer by He Who Shall Not Be Named. Rafa decided minutes later that it was time to spring Peter Crouch on Wigan's Maginot Line. How many times have we seen a game need a match-changer and Rafa waits until the very last second to put Peter Crouch in the game. One goal up against a team that was begging to be put away and only after a shocking equalizer did Rafa feel it was time to employ two forwards. And that's another story. 4-5-1 against Wigan? If Rafa is trying deliberately to get fired you really have to hand it to him because he is excelling.


Sometimes you need someone to step in and change the make-up of a club. Rafa has done that beautifully, resowing the salted earth Houllier left and giving the club a completely different feel. He has constructed a side that anyone would be proud to play FIFA 08 online with. However, he cannot for the life of him figure out how to manage those same players in the Premiership. Sometimes that same person who did a magnificent job constructing your team needs to have the car keys taken away. Rafa has taken this team as far as he possibly can in my opinion. I have no doubt that another manager could at the very least keep Liverpool in the title race until April.


I know there were many Liverpool fans that thought that maybe this would be the year, I know I myself fantasized about Stevie and Carra hoisting the trophy but I thought it was a more realistic proposition for next year or the year after. The problem is though I don't think Rafa is the man to take them to the top of the Premiership. We've got a good a club with a couple holes but nothing a centre back and probably playing Babel up front or another striker couldn't fix. He's a good manager, sports an excellent goatee and seems like a decent fellow, but a knowledgeable mind of the English game he is not.


Rafa's reign in Liverpool should be celebrated for its successes, not derided but for his league failures. However, the glaring fact of the matter is that someone else needs to be brought in to take Liverpool to the top. Still, it makes you sad to wonder what Rafa could achieve if he simply played his best team most of the time. Oh well, maybe at another club far, far, far away from England.

What a load of rubbish I found this on another forum. What do you all think?

It is his opinion and whilst I don't totally agree with it I do find myself agreeing with some of his points, Rafa is not bullet proof to criticism and as paying fans of the club we love surely every one of us is entitled to a reasoned point of view without becoming public enemy number one. I for one think Rafa is taking us in the right direction granted it has been a little stop start of late but I do think the glory he has already brought to the club bodes well for future honours that will one day include the premiership.

I do not however buy into the blind mantra of “in Rafa we trust” and will if needed talk in the negative about results, tactics and the dreaded rotation policy, he does make mistakes as do the players and those mistakes are often discussed on many a forum and round every pub on a Saturday night. He does for some reason that still bemuses me turn in some tactical gems in Europe only to balance it with woeful ones in the league, he also is still far to negative for my liking in the league concentrating far too much on not letting the opposition score rather than our own attacking prowess.
He must start treating everyone like Arsenal or Man U, steamroller the opposition if they are weak and don't play football chess for an hour before scoring a goal, when the opposition are a bit “classier” compete at there level and have the self belief that we can beat these teams and will beat them to the title.

I would never call for Rafa’s head as all he hasn't delivered is the title and this is something I am confident he can rectify, also the cup wins and the fantastic youth and reserve set ups he has installed tell me when we do get our hands on the title we will be after it every year and not one year wonders like Blackburn.

Can we not at least wait till the season's over?

The next 18 we could play like men possessed.  We're just over half way through.  I won't be making any snap judgements in the middle of a season. 

Rotation works well enough in Europe but it looks to be undermining the players confidence in themselves in the Premiership & that's for Rafa to address & to do it quickly.

go ahead rafa, do whats in your mind. Finished this league and make us happy as what arsene wenger do to their young lads. I know you can manage that before we... arghhhh!! just get it for us!

Rafa is on a long term strategy to turn around LFC which I hope he is given time to deliver.

Last night Rafa had a total mare of a game - he is largely at fault for the draw and not the win... but hey sh*t happens.

I don't know if the americans or Parry are knee-jerk merchants, I don't think they are, and they know how much we admire Rafael Benitez.

Let's give the man more time... he is a genius who had a terribly bad day at the office last night.

IRWT.

Firstly, I like Rafa!!!

I agree with and fully understand his rotation policy.

What frustates me more than anything else is that he's forever changing formations and game play.  One minute were 442, next 351, then were 433.  One minute were getting down the wings and throwing crosses into the box, next theres no width and the wide men are going inside.  Half the time the players don't know what there doing.  Ok sometimes you change formation to counter the other team,  you should only do this against the big boys.

Its simple

He needs to choose the formation, choose the style of play and stick to it!!!!

Then you get players who will compliment those positions and rotate them!!!

I do fear until he does this, the title will not be coming back to Anfield.

go ahead rafa, do whats in your mind. Finished this league and make us happy as what arsene wenger do to their young lads. I know you can manage that before we... arghhhh!! just get it for us!

Huh?

This guy talks crap BUT i do agree with some points he stated. Rafa is open to criticism, he has made mistakes and made stroke's of genius but he is the one to take us to the top. He needs a few things:

1. Stop whining and take blame.
2. Get Paco or any decent assistant he can get.
3. Take a team who is hungry for victory out on the park with the belief of life and death in each match.

Our recent performances have been those of teams who expected a win. They go out in search of a goal to dent the oppositions spirits and then fail to get that crucial 2nd. They aren't hungry untill they got back on even terms. The team runs hot and cold in a match far too often instead of keeping the pressure on for atleast 60 minutes. We need a manager who wants to win and attack instead of thinking, 'Ok, they have 'X' player, so i'll play 'Z'' Rafa will learn as success is not instant unless you play for Chelsea and that if he is open to suggestions he can bring us the title and be put down as one of the best.

Huh?

This guy talks crap BUT I do agree with some points he stated. Rafa is open to criticism, he has made mistakes and made stroke's of genius but he is the one to take us to the top. He needs a few things:

1. Stop whining and take blame.
2. Get Paco or any decent assistant he can get.
3. Take a team who is hungry for victory out on the park with the belief of life and death in each match.

Our recent performances have been those of teams who expected a win. They go out in search of a goal to dent the oppositions spirits and then fail to get that crucial 2nd. They aren't hungry untill they got back on even terms. The team runs hot and cold in a match far too often instead of keeping the pressure on for atleast 60 minutes. We need a manager who wants to win and attack instead of thinking, 'Ok, they have 'X' player, so I'll play 'Z'' Rafa will learn as success is not instant unless you play for Chelsea and that if he is open to suggestions he can bring us the title and be put down as one of the best.

Best thing Rafa (and Parry) could work on ... is getting Pako back within the fold. Simple. Not rocket science.

I would give Benitez this AND next (full!!!) season to prove that Liverpool can effectively hang around with ManU & Co. As someone already stated, Benitez thinks dynamically and strategically and with futurethinking. We need to give him more time even when it's a hard time to see another PL slip away.

Another point: Where are the young and promising players from our own youth? I'm concerned that Rafa just shops around without looking to develop the people that one already has.

But with Mourinho available and Gilett/Hicks typical US-Boys (who think always big and for the best), it's certainly probable that Liverpool will check out with Mourinho and that Rafa may get busted in winter time....
 

I must admit im torn 50-50 wheather Rafa should go my heart says he should stay hes a good manager and he will bring the title home sometime in the next few years,but my head says get rid of him we are seriously facing the prospect of not finishing in the top 4 which would be a disaster for us.

What do we do wait until the season ends?which might be to late if we finsh say 5th.

I have to say rafa does make some strange decisions at times like, against wigan a team that were only playing to nick a draw, so we play 4-5-1 with two defensive midfields why? also we spend 10 million on a player and not play them, he was not even on the bench and, dont tell me we need to rotate a player (babel) who played 15 minutes againt man city.

I dont understand aswell why he keeps messin with the formation, half the time are own players dont know what there supposed to be doing.

Then there are the strikers where kuyt, seems to work hard by chasing players down, but also is hanging around the midfield, Voroion summed up simply not good enought if we are going to compete for the title, then there is crouch who is given about 10 minutes to make an impact, but when he is on the pitch he works hard, by creating chances or making himself dangerous in the box, and still does not get a chance to start a game, if rafa is going to do that to him, we may aswell sell him.

Sissoko is liability when he has the ball, his passing is outrages and when he wins a tackle he gives the ball straight back to the oppostion.

Also united and chelski are after players like anelka and berbatov, and were a looking for a CB, we should be looking for a winger rather than a CB.

We need a change of attitued towards the premier league, roation works well in europe but not in the league, and with erikson doing well at man city and is going to improve his squad to be even stronger we may end up not getting into europe for next season.

am not saying to sack Rafa or anything beacause he has done great things for the club, and i know it is incredibly hard job to do, but some of his decsion are very odd at times, IMO we wont win the league this season maybe not the next but rafa needs to rethink some of his decisions with his formaiton, and roation choping a changing players.

I love Rafa, and I hate to see it, but his Body Language last night was awful. he looked like a fat spoiled child last night, the way he made faces and gesticulated at Steve Bennett when Bennett blew up early. Its a pity, it gives the scum media an opportunity to laugh at us and stoke the fires with talk of a "CRISIS"

I have to say rafa does make some strange decisions at times like, against wigan a team that were only playing to nick a draw, so we play 4-5-1 with two defensive midfields why? also we spend 10 million on a player and not play them, he was not even on the bench and, dont tell me we need to rotate a player (babel) who played 15 minutes againt man city.

I dont understand aswell why he keeps messin with the formation, half the time are own players dont know what there supposed to be doing.

Then there are the strikers where kuyt, seems to work hard by chasing players down, but also is hanging around the midfield, Voroion summed up simply not good enought if we are going to compete for the title, then there is crouch who is given about 10 minutes to make an impact, but when he is on the pitch he works hard, by creating chances or making himself dangerous in the box, and still does not get a chance to start a game, if rafa is going to do that to him, we may aswell sell him.

Sissoko is liability when he has the ball, his passing is outrages and when he wins a tackle he gives the ball straight back to the oppostion.

Also united and chelski are after players like anelka and berbatov, and were a looking for a CB, we should be looking for a winger rather than a CB.

We need a change of attitued towards the premier league, roation works well in europe but not in the league, and with erikson doing well at man city and is going to improve his squad to be even stronger we may end up not getting into europe for next season.

am not saying to sack Rafa or anything beacause he has done great things for the club, and I know it is incredibly hard job to do, but some of his decsion are very odd at times, IMO we wont win the league this season maybe not the next but rafa needs to rethink some of his decisions with his formaiton, and roation choping a changing players.

Unfortunatley we need a purge of sorts. We need a fire sale of certain players and a recruitment of others. It has to be done swiftly.

I question some of rafa's decisions, But I wouldn't swap him for any other manager give him 2 more seasons I for one am confident that premiership title will be back at Anfield once we get it I think it will be hard for anyone to take it of us but to get shut of rafa would be a disaster I think were playing much more enjoyable football 

I question some of rafa's decisions, But I wouldn't swap him for any other manager give him 2 more seasons I for one am confident that premiership title will be back at Anfield once we get it I think it will be hard for anyone to take it of us but to get shut of rafa would be a disaster I think were playing much more enjoyable football 

Well said, in full agreement.

I'm a bit confused to why some people think it is our God given right to win the title.

It is not an equation of   Liverpool Manager x spends some money = Liverpool's Prem title.

The sport has moved on markedly since we were winning the title. Yes we have spent money. But people have to realise that the teams above us really do mean business. Excellent sides that have been constructed at cost with hardly any passengers whatsoever.

Look at what the other teams do. Look at Manure. When they go player hunting. They get their Number 1 targets and pay the fee accordingly.

We have had targets and had to settle so many times on a player who wasn't at the top of the wish list. Alves/Simao to name a few. Since Rafa has arrived we have taken 1, just 1 genuine step in the right direction. Torres. He is the first time we have pinpointed a top class target at a top class price and got him. Made apurchase we'd expect from the other teams in the top 3.

Some of these players you sign for say £7 - 12 million.... 1 in say 4 or 5 work out. Alonso maybe the case of working out but he was unproven at the time. As is Babel. Kuyt and Crouch fall into the bracket of decent on their day but not good enough to get into the teams we are trying to finish above of. Every now and again a gem like Agger comes up. But he cost 5m for a player who hadn't played 50 career games so their is obviously risk attatched too the purchase

The club still "umming and arring" over the £17m for Mascherano. For fucks sake look at Taggart when he wanted a replacement for Roy Keane. He went and spent £27m on Veron. That didn't work out so Chelsea thought they'd have a go at him for £15m. Taggart has since realised that he cannot find any one man to replace Keane as a sitting midfielder. So what has he done ? Went and spent £17m twice and £18m on Anderson/Hargreaves/Carrick to share the workload over the season. That's a net of over 50 million and it becomes quite obvious that £17 million is the not a bad price for a sitting midfieler who looks to me if he is a better than them 3. Plus Juve and Barca are sniffing round him (Take the hint Messrs Hicks & Gillett)

Then you just have to look elsewhere. Rooney/Tevez Both over 20 million each. Centre half Rio shithouse for £29million. Nip over to Chelsea and see another sitting midfielder in Essien for near £25m, Drogba 20 odd million. Carvalho £18m million and so on and so on. When you stop hating these guys and be honest with ourselves we know they are top top players. All were first choice targets and were sigend without hesitation.

Back to ourselves. OK we spend. Our net spending over the summer mirrored that of The blue sh*te and Fulham. But we simply do not sign the number one players nor targets. We merely spend to "hold our position"  in the top 4 without finishing in that 1st place.

It boils down to finances. Both Arsenal And Manure are raking it in. Far more ticket revnue per game than us. Arsenal had to put their wallett away for a couple of seasons while the stduim was being built but the spending on his team was done and the squad formidable. Chelsea run off a false economy of a charitable billionnaire. Who himself has pulled in the purse of late after spending 200-300 million. For which players like Ben Haim and Sidwell were bought on freebies and due to injuries these players are in and while still in with a shout the slight decline has been noted.

So it boills down to not just on the field matters but off the field. This stadium needs to be built and fast. Funny thing is I used to do some part time taxi driving round the city and picked up my A-Z street map of merseyside (published 2005). Looked at Stanley park and it had the print ofa stadium in the middle of Stanley Park within it saying LFC (due for copmpletion 2007). Which I think it says it all. 2008 and not a single shovel in the ground yet. We are a shoddily run club compared to the other teams above us and need to move with the times and fast. I am a doubting Thomas over this new stadium as there have been so many promises. Quite frankly... I'll only belive it when I see it.

When we can compete in ALL areas of the footballing business in the Prem off the pitch, then, and only then can we expect a few more players of Torres quality and realistically have a chance of competing for the title.

Just one more thing...

For those who think Rafa is deemed to be a failure for not bringing the prem title this year and should be kicked out. I'd like to here your views on this....   Only one team can win the league. If Manure or Arsenal don't win it, do you think Wenger/Taggart are deemed failures and should be sacked ?

I'm all ears....

I'm a bit confused to why some people think it is our God given right to win the title.

It is not an equation of   Liverpool Manager x spends some money = Liverpool's Prem title.

The sport has moved on markedly since we were winning the title. Yes we have spent money. But people have to realise that the teams above us really do mean business. Excellent sides that have been constructed at cost with hardly any passengers whatsoever.

Look at what the other teams do. Look at Manure. When they go player hunting. They get their Number 1 targets and pay the fee accordingly.

We have had targets and had to settle so many times on a player who wasn't at the top of the wish list. Alves/Simao to name a few. Since Rafa has arrived we have taken 1, just 1 genuine step in the right direction. Torres. He is the first time we have pinpointed a top class target at a top class price and got him. Made apurchase we'd expect from the other teams in the top 3.

Some of these players you sign for say £7 - 12 million.... 1 in say 4 or 5 work out. Alonso maybe the case of working out but he was unproven at the time. As is Babel. Kuyt and Crouch fall into the bracket of decent on their day but not good enough to get into the teams we are trying to finish above of. Every now and again a gem like Agger comes up. But he cost 5m for a player who hadn't played 50 career games so their is obviously risk attatched too the purchase

The club still "umming and arring" over the £17m for Mascherano. For fucks sake look at Taggart when he wanted a replacement for Roy Keane. He went and spent £27m on Veron. That didn't work out so Chelsea thought they'd have a go at him for £15m. Taggart has since realised that he cannot find any one man to replace Keane as a sitting midfielder. So what has he done ? Went and spent £17m twice and £18m on Anderson/Hargreaves/Carrick to share the workload over the season. That's a net of over 50 million and it becomes quite obvious that £17 million is the not a bad price for a sitting midfieler who looks to me if he is a better than them 3. Plus Juve and Barca are sniffing round him (Take the hint Messrs Hicks & Gillett)

Then you just have to look elsewhere. Rooney/Tevez Both over 20 million each. Centre half Rio shithouse for £29million. Nip over to Chelsea and see another sitting midfielder in Essien for near £25m, Drogba 20 odd million. Carvalho £18m million and so on and so on. When you stop hating these guys and be honest with ourselves we know they are top top players. All were first choice targets and were sigend without hesitation.

Back to ourselves. OK we spend. Our net spending over the summer mirrored that of The blue sh*te and Fulham. But we simply do not sign the number one players nor targets. We merely spend to "hold our position"  in the top 4 without finishing in that 1st place.

It boils down to finances. Both Arsenal And Manure are raking it in. Far more ticket revnue per game than us. Arsenal had to put their wallett away for a couple of seasons while the stduim was being built but the spending on his team was done and the squad formidable. Chelsea run off a false economy of a charitable billionnaire. Who himself has pulled in the purse of late after spending 200-300 million. For which players like Ben Haim and Sidwell were bought on freebies and due to injuries these players are in and while still in with a shout the slight decline has been noted.

So it boills down to not just on the field matters but off the field. This stadium needs to be built and fast. Funny thing is I used to do some part time taxi driving round the city and picked up my A-Z street map of merseyside (published 2005). Looked at Stanley park and it had the print ofa stadium in the middle of Stanley Park within it saying LFC (due for copmpletion 2007). Which I think it says it all.. We are a shoddily run club compared to the other teams above us and need to move with the times and fast. I am a doubting Thomas over this new stadium as there have been so many promises. Quite frankly... I'll only belive it when I see it.

When we can compete in ALL areas of the footballing business in the Prem off the pitch, then, and only then can we expect a few more players of Torres quality and realistically have a chance of competing for the title.

Just one more thing...

For those who think Rafa is deemed to be a failure for not bringing the prem title this year and should be kicked out. I'd like to here your views on this....   Only one team can win the league. If Manure or Arsenal don't win it, do you think Wenger/Taggart are deemed failures and should be sacked ?

I'm all ears....

Excellent post Bootle Buck, I'm in full agreement with you.  When you break it down in small pieces, its easier to analyse.  People are quick to judge and call for Rafa's head every time we draw/lose a game.  I posted an article from Paul Tomkins on another thread that makes interesting reading regarding the progression of Arse, Manure and Chelski and basically, Rome wasn't built in a day.       

O.K.the guy points out some facts that are indisputable and a few thats pure knee jerk from the game the other night but get rid of a guy like Benitas just because we have drawn a few games,what rubbish.Raffa in my opinion deserves a lot more respect.

Most games we draw are down to not putting chances away it's been a problem now for a few years and the point is we make lots of chances in many of the games we play and you want to get rid of a guy whose put a useful team together(not the finished article yet)but we are getting there.

I predict we shall finish 1st or 2nd this year as we are only seeing 90% of the potential thats bursting to get out of these players I predict we will win most of the games left and drop no more than 4 points from now on,I'm damned sure Raffa hasn't thrown in the towel so why should we...

I agree. We just didn't spend aggressively on the market. We just don't get the Ronaldinho's & Co. (e.g. why didn't we chase Henry?), it's always up to Chelseas and ManU. We get only the above-average players or almost superstar-players (Torres). We need to going deeper...or we have to give Benitez more time. Because I think Benitez choosed his players wisely. They will!!!!!! develop to superstars but not from today to tomorrow.

There are the choices:

1. Give Benitez more money to spend.
 
or

2. Give Benitez more time.

Firing Benitez within the next two years would be stupid unless Liverpool is in danger to drop out of the PL.... Mourinoh wouldn't have had more success with this team IMHO.

I'm a bit confused to why some people think it is our God given right to win the title.

It is not an equation of   Liverpool Manager x spends some money = Liverpool's Prem title.

The sport has moved on markedly since we were winning the title. Yes we have spent money. But people have to realise that the teams above us really do mean business. Excellent sides that have been constructed at cost with hardly any passengers whatsoever.

Look at what the other teams do. Look at Manure. When they go player hunting. They get their Number 1 targets and pay the fee accordingly.

We have had targets and had to settle so many times on a player who wasn't at the top of the wish list. Alves/Simao to name a few. Since Rafa has arrived we have taken 1, just 1 genuine step in the right direction. Torres. He is the first time we have pinpointed a top class target at a top class price and got him. Made apurchase we'd expect from the other teams in the top 3.

Some of these players you sign for say £7 - 12 million.... 1 in say 4 or 5 work out. Alonso maybe the case of working out but he was unproven at the time. As is Babel. Kuyt and Crouch fall into the bracket of decent on their day but not good enough to get into the teams we are trying to finish above of. Every now and again a gem like Agger comes up. But he cost 5m for a player who hadn't played 50 career games so their is obviously risk attatched too the purchase

The club still "umming and arring" over the £17m for Mascherano. For fucks sake look at Taggart when he wanted a replacement for Roy Keane. He went and spent £27m on Veron. That didn't work out so Chelsea thought they'd have a go at him for £15m. Taggart has since realised that he cannot find any one man to replace Keane as a sitting midfielder. So what has he done ? Went and spent £17m twice and £18m on Anderson/Hargreaves/Carrick to share the workload over the season. That's a net of over 50 million and it becomes quite obvious that £17 million is the not a bad price for a sitting midfieler who looks to me if he is a better than them 3. Plus Juve and Barca are sniffing round him (Take the hint Messrs Hicks & Gillett)

Then you just have to look elsewhere. Rooney/Tevez Both over 20 million each. Centre half Rio shithouse for £29million. Nip over to Chelsea and see another sitting midfielder in Essien for near £25m, Drogba 20 odd million. Carvalho £18m million and so on and so on. When you stop hating these guys and be honest with ourselves we know they are top top players. All were first choice targets and were sigend without hesitation.

Back to ourselves. OK we spend. Our net spending over the summer mirrored that of The blue sh*te and Fulham. But we simply do not sign the number one players nor targets. We merely spend to "hold our position"  in the top 4 without finishing in that 1st place.

It boils down to finances. Both Arsenal And Manure are raking it in. Far more ticket revnue per game than us. Arsenal had to put their wallett away for a couple of seasons while the stduim was being built but the spending on his team was done and the squad formidable. Chelsea run off a false economy of a charitable billionnaire. Who himself has pulled in the purse of late after spending 200-300 million. For which players like Ben Haim and Sidwell were bought on freebies and due to injuries these players are in and while still in with a shout the slight decline has been noted.

So it boills down to not just on the field matters but off the field. This stadium needs to be built and fast. Funny thing is I used to do some part time taxi driving round the city and picked up my A-Z street map of merseyside (published 2005). Looked at Stanley park and it had the print ofa stadium in the middle of Stanley Park within it saying LFC (due for copmpletion 2007). Which I think it says it all. 2008 and not a single shovel in the ground yet. We are a shoddily run club compared to the other teams above us and need to move with the times and fast. I am a doubting Thomas over this new stadium as there have been so many promises. Quite frankly... I'll only belive it when I see it.

When we can compete in ALL areas of the footballing business in the Prem off the pitch, then, and only then can we expect a few more players of Torres quality and realistically have a chance of competing for the title.

Just one more thing...

For those who think Rafa is deemed to be a failure for not bringing the prem title this year and should be kicked out. I'd like to here your views on this....   Only one team can win the league. If Manure or Arsenal don't win it, do you think Wenger/Taggart are deemed failures and should be sacked ?

I'm all ears....

Sound post Bootle Buck. For me you've pointed out the club as a whole and not focused on the manager. Which is all too easy for people to do.

An important point is that of the Stadium and what it (could have already done) can bring to the table. For those who are calling for the managers head. Could we really afford it? No chance. We'd be taking so many steps backwards. It would have to be a manager better than Benitez - who's out there? Not many!! And this new manager would want money to spend wouldn't he? Isn't that a touchy subject in general with the stadium plans?

No point building something when you're going to knock it down half way through the process. Glenbuck was spot on when he said we are setting foundations for a sustained challenge for the title. Getting rid of Rafa could easily rip up the foundations.

Sound post Bootle Buck. For me you've pointed out the club as a whole and not focused on the manager. Which is all too easy for people to do.

An important point is that of the Stadium and what it (could have already done) can bring to the table. For those who are calling for the managers head. Could we really afford it? No chance. We'd be taking so many steps backwards. It would have to be a manager better than Benitez - who's out there? Not many!! And this new manager would want money to spend wouldn't he? Isn't that a touchy subject in general with the stadium plans?

No point building something when you're going to knock it down half way through the process. Glenbuck was spot on when he said we are setting foundations for a sustained challenge for the title. Getting rid of Rafa could easily rip up the foundations.

Thanks for that mate.

In a nutshell I was saying the club needs to sort itself out before we win the league. At the moment I don't think any manager could get us to beat all the other 3 to the title. Rafa has shown his quality by his Europan Cup record which is better than the records of Wenger/Ferguson/Mourinho.

So whilst he's not perfect he needs the club as a whole to operate at the same level as the other 3 and the club as a whole can bring the league title back. This league is harder to win now as its ever been. And it's getting harder.

Until then I think we'll remain good, but not quite good enough.

Thanks for that mate.

In a nutshell I was saying the club needs to sort itself out before we win the league. At the moment I don't think any manager could get us to beat all the other 3 to the title. Rafa has shown his quality by his Europan Cup record which is better than the records of Wenger/Ferguson/Mourinho.

So whilst he's not perfect he needs the club as a whole to operate at the same level as the other 3 and the club as a whole can bring the league title back. This league is harder to win now as its ever been. And it's getting harder.

Until then I think we'll remain good, but not quite good enough.

Totally agree mate.

And the league is certainly harder to win now than it's ever been. We have to move with the times as a whole to compete. By getting shut of Rafa it would be going back in time in my opinion. Hopefully this new road in our clubs history will become less bumpy as time progresses.