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      Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread

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      Troffy
      • Forum Jamie Redknapp
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #115: Jan 13, 2008 01:57:45 am
      The off the field bickering is definitely affecting the players but it shouldn't be the case but it is the case at the moment. For a while, I thought the way the players in red played resembles very much of the Liverpool that I come to know of, combative, passing were fluid and got the ball into the box at every opportunity. But no, we can't even move the ball forward fast enough and hoof the ball upfield at every opportunity, we can't do that when they have 3 defenders who are 6 footers. Even the midfielders are making more of these back passes nowadays instead of moving forward, with that how can we expect to win games. We preferred to dilly-dally at the back only moved the ball forward after we have teased the opposition forwards enough, then move the ball to the midfield (who on many occasions then pass the ball back to defense, safety first) get everyone into position, wait for the opening (which will never come if we move at that speed) and when we so decide to make that final pass it turned out horribly wrong where we can't even control the ball properly and players are at sixes and sevens, devoid of ideas. We just simply can't win the league with the players that we have who are not fast and combative enough, to name them will be far too many. There's something very wrong with our tactics and our training. The way we played resembles that of an old truck chugging away, very stone age. We know very well that they'll mark Torres tightly, Rafa should have thrown one more player into the box to pin them back, they have to defend somewhat. A disappointing result and if we continue to play the way we did today, I'm afraid comes the end of the campaign, we have problems even finishing at 4th, and Rafa will have to realise that soon. In short this was a Liverpool devoid of ideas, imagination, skills, combativeness and life.

      Carragher and Hyppia: Hoofball specialists. You see how much we are missing with Agger...nobody wants to move forward with the ball. Worst of all, the other teams have figured this out, and know how to play us. And it is getting worse and worse over time.
      Troffy
      • Forum Jamie Redknapp
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #116: Jan 13, 2008 02:01:32 am
      Agreed, we can't have these players who are slow, non-combative and worst of no vision.

      Everything United do is done fast, and it has teams scared to death. Thats half of Uniteds plan, their aura, their ability to create a sense of the inevitable. With us. teams look at us and say "this lot are slow and disorganised, lets put them under pressure and scare them" and it works.

      redkop63
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #117: Jan 13, 2008 02:43:55 am
      Blaming Gerrard is completely crazy. But for Gerrard's heroics Benitez wouldn't have won a European Cup in 2005 or an FA Cup so he has more than pulled the manager out of the shvt often enough in the past. Now it's Torres that's hiding the fact there's no cohesion or actual footballing imagination between the players when they try to attack. They're like strangers who never train together. It's all individual skill that is pulling us out; not team play.

      Gerrard put all his support behind Houllier 4 years ago and said he'd consider his position at the club etc.. if Houllier was sacked.  Now he realises with more maturity that's madness because managers come and go at clubs and that's football. Gerrard loves Liverpool not Benitez.

      And Gerrard didn't buy Veronin or put him in the first 11 today. So of all the players in the squad Gerrard and Torres have made sure the season isn't a complete disaster.

      Fully agreed, when we're at the opposition goalmouth, we're totally lost. Yes, we dominated games, Rafa kept on saying that and we kept on hearing that which keeps me wondering what does Rafa do at training? Get the players to pass and pass and pass the ball around but nothing else? Yes, I'm amaze we could do so well in that but comes to nothing. If we care to count the number of passes between the defence and midfield its really amazing but its all hovering around our own half or at the midfiled, if it is at the opposition goalmouth it would have resulted in many goals. This is no league champion form. For a start we don't need any more training in passing the ball around, we need to quickly revamp the training to play smart when on the attack, which starts with attack with speed and clever positioning of players and effective link-up lay.

      We already have the following backbone of the team in Gerrard, Carragher, Agger, Babel, Masc and Torres, that's 1/2 the team, get rid of the dead wood and start to re-built for the future.
      « Last Edit: Jan 13, 2008 02:46:08 am by redkop63, Reason: redundant word »
      Troffy
      • Forum Jamie Redknapp
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #118: Jan 13, 2008 03:05:08 am
      gerrard was poor today............end of story.
      Arshad 4pool
      • Forum Jari Litmanen
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #119: Jan 13, 2008 03:20:13 am
      Enough guys.how many times does rafa change team formation during game.by the end most were confused about their positioning.crouch may not be best but He's better than vernoin and kuyt.but rafa hardly plays him.i'm sure he has something personal against crouch.even kewell would have done better than risse. Rafa needs to explain why the 2 were not in squad.he just knows how to chop n change.i know players are to be blamed too but rafa needs to play right players jim right position from start and attack from whistle. Look i like rafa and what he has won for us but his stubbornness is costing us.week after week he repeats same mistakes.that would not improve his position wit owners.i wonder if it might be better to get a new manager. Afterall dont we all want our beloved liverpool to fight for epl and not 4th position
      Troffy
      • Forum Jamie Redknapp
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #120: Jan 13, 2008 03:31:30 am
      Enough guys.how many times does rafa change team formation during game.by the end most were confused about their positioning.crouch may not be best but He's better than vernoin and kuyt.but rafa hardly plays him.I'm sure he has something personal against crouch.even kewell would have done better than risse. Rafa needs to explain why the 2 were not in squad.he just knows how to chop n change.I know players are to be blamed too but rafa needs to play right players jim right position from start and attack from whistle. Look I like rafa and what he has won for us but his stubbornness is costing us.week after week he repeats same mistakes.that would not improve his position wit owners.I wonder if it might be better to get a new manager. Afterall dont we all want our beloved liverpool to fight for epl and not 4th position

      There is no doubt about it: Rafa has been responsible for a lot of the problems. Changing the team, dropping guys, bringing guys back, mixing it. End the madness Rafa, end the madness.
      benforrest
      • Forum Kenny Dalglish
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #121: Jan 13, 2008 04:44:37 am
      When was the last time you saw a player score and point to the LFC emblem? Not saying this action shows they directly have passion, but it shows the respect they have for the club. Robbie did it a number of times.
      Don't want to cut you down, but Gerrard slapped his emblem after he scored againest Derby. Poor game, Luton is next on the 15th, we need to beat them otherwise the players aswell as Benitez will be under alot of critism. The next 5 games (Premier League) are must wins, if we want a spot in the Champions league, or even Europe!
      kelv78
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #122: Jan 13, 2008 07:58:22 am
      Another disappointing result but we never beat boro away so im not to surprised just hope Rafa can get it sorted so we do finish in the top 4 this season.
      livercool
      • Forum Paul Ince
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #123: Jan 13, 2008 10:01:50 am
      are liverpool better off with the yanks in charge ? for me a simple NO ! buying mach. should not even been a issue, ok they spend in the summer , but now it looks like a one off , and this has effect liverpool behind the scene . DARK days
      lil cisse
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #124: Jan 13, 2008 10:17:02 am
      The money rafa made the club from selling players has been vastly overshadowed by the amount the owners spent on new players and everyone acts like we spent near £50 million and it was actually around half of that. The owners promised to back rafa no matter who he wanted and i have yet to see them do so. All i want to see is rafa able to buy the players he actually wants and i mean his first choice not second or third and im certain that if he was given what he wanted to spend then he would bring success. The reason i believe this is that he would be more likely to get rid of the dead wood and rotation would no longer be such an issue as even if he rotated he would be rotating great players with other great players. We need to bounce back against luton to get back confidence within the side, its not even like we have been losing games its just been drawing games we should really be winning.
      GERNS
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #125: Jan 13, 2008 11:00:52 am
      Firstly, Stevie has the right to have an off day and it should have Little effect on the overall performance if every one else is doing their job. As for giving Rafa 'what cash he wants to buy who he wants'  just as well have Mourinho or Allardyce or any one of about twenty managers who can get results with that strategy. What we need is some one to give the players belief in the system they are playing. A decent tactical strategy and a less defensive approach. Ive been saying since October that we need wholesale changes to either Rafa's rotation bollocks, his attitude to wards the players or a new Manager if things don't change. As I posted just after the event, it all started to go downhill after Paco left. Lack of communication and respect for the players wishes.
      If Rafa hold onto his job at the end of the season, expect to see loads of players asking for a move as they won't want to play under this regime of being shackled and not allowed to show invention. Too defensive, to predictable and extremely poor, for far too long. Absolutely gutted :-[ :'( :'(
      donrafael
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #126: Jan 13, 2008 11:09:32 am
      Firstly, Stevie has the right to have an off day and it should have Little effect on the overall performance if every one else is doing their job. As for giving Rafa 'what cash he wants to buy who he wants'  just as well have Mourinho or Allardyce or any one of about twenty managers who can get results with that strategy. What we need is some one to give the players belief in the system they are playing. A decent tactical strategy and a less defensive approach. Ive been saying since October that we need wholesale changes to either Rafa's rotation bollocks, his attitude to wards the players or a new Manager if things don't change. As I posted just after the event, it all started to go downhill after Paco left. Lack of communication and respect for the players wishes.
      If Rafa hold onto his job at the end of the season, expect to see loads of players asking for a move as they won't want to play under this regime of being shackled and not allowed to show invention. Too defensive, to predictable and extremely poor, for far too long. Absolutely gutted :-[ :'( :'(

      Yeah like who would go... only person that would want to walk away from this is Rafa himself... and if HE decides to go then expect the transfer-requests to come flooding in.

      By the way, Rafa does not always get the players he wants - from what I've heard (Gulilem Balague on TheGame podcast/The Times) it's pretty much option 2 or 3 down his pecking list...
      donrafael
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #127: Jan 13, 2008 11:18:35 am
      a very dissapointing result we have some players in this squad that really are not up to it the likes of voronin last night pellegrino wud of dun a better job up front he was terrible and has to go at the end of the season riise is useless we have to buy a new left bak and sell him kuyt is not good enough he just runs like a dog he is another player who has to go  donno y crouch is not in squad and for once rafa start babel up front the kid has talent and was a big threat when he came on some desicions rafa makes at times are stupid and the same for some of his signings

      Why not mention that Rafa is also responsible for Torres, Xabi and Reina being here... get the big picture in mate... not just the key-hole version.
      crouchinho
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #128: Jan 13, 2008 11:31:27 am
      You cant blame Rafa for everything here, the players he chooses are the ones who have to perform and in all honesty, that side should be able to break Middlesborough down and get a win. Ok so its a tough place to get points apparently but why cant we be the ones who do come away with something more than a draw.
      livercool
      • Forum Paul Ince
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #129: Jan 13, 2008 11:35:08 am
      yes man i agree , but where is all the fans that is standing by rafa? cause i never c them here?
      Firstly, Stevie has the right to have an off day and it should have Little effect on the overall performance if every one else is doing their job. As for giving Rafa 'what cash he wants to buy who he wants'  just as well have Mourinho or Allardyce or any one of about twenty managers who can get results with that strategy. What we need is some one to give the players belief in the system they are playing. A decent tactical strategy and a less defensive approach. Ive been saying since October that we need wholesale changes to either Rafa's rotation bollocks, his attitude to wards the players or a new Manager if things don't change. As I posted just after the event, it all started to go downhill after Paco left. Lack of communication and respect for the players wishes.
      If Rafa hold onto his job at the end of the season, expect to see loads of players asking for a move as they won't want to play under this regime of being shackled and not allowed to show invention. Too defensive, to predictable and extremely poor, for far too long. Absolutely gutted :-[ :'( :'(
      crouchinho
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #130: Jan 13, 2008 11:37:55 am
      yes man I agree , but where is all the fans that is standing by rafa? cause I never c them here?
      you dont see them here?

      lmao ask Poolgiant.
      livercool
      • Forum Paul Ince
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #131: Jan 13, 2008 11:38:36 am
      i want rafa to suceed but , its like he thinks about the game to much , anylise to much, controlling games dont get ur points, strikers is there to score not to track back!
      srslfc
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #132: Jan 13, 2008 11:41:46 am
      I want rafa to suceed but , its like he thinks about the game to much , anylise to much, controlling games dont get ur points, strikers is there to score not to track back!

      I never hear anyone complain when Rafa's analysis and tactics get us results against the likes of Barcelona etc!!

      a very dissapointing result we have some players in this squad that really are not up to it the likes of voronin last night pellegrino wud of dun a better job up front he was terrible and has to go at the end of the season riise is useless we have to buy a new left bak and sell him kuyt is not good enough he just runs like a dog he is another player who has to go  donno y crouch is not in squad and for once rafa start babel up front the kid has talent and was a big threat when he came on some desicions rafa makes at times are stupid and the same for some of his signings

      Any chance of throwing a few comma's and full stops into your posts mate! It just looks like useless ramblings otherwise.
      Torres *9
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #133: Jan 13, 2008 11:43:59 am
      i was sayin that if u want a title players like voronin riise kuyt have to go and more quality has to come in i never said anything about rafa that he shud go he shudnt he is the right man but if u wont to chase for titles u must choose your best eleven and maybe sell a few players who are not up to it
      livercool
      • Forum Paul Ince
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #134: Jan 13, 2008 12:43:59 pm
      in europe i would not change rafa 4 anyone! he proved that over and over , but in the prem , he is still learning his trade
      I never hear anyone complain when Rafa's analysis and tactics get us results against the likes of Barcelona etc!!

      Any chance of throwing a few comma's and full stops into your posts mate! It just looks like useless ramblings otherwise.
      donrafael
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #135: Jan 13, 2008 01:58:20 pm
      in europe I would not change rafa 4 anyone! he proved that over and over , but in the prem , he is still learning his trade

      We don't have enough quality in depth to challenge for prem... we can do in knock-out footy with a Rafa motivated starting XI.

      Troffy
      • Forum Jamie Redknapp
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      Re: Middlesbrough v Liverpool (Sat 12 Jan) Match Thread
      Reply #136: Jan 13, 2008 04:44:37 pm
      in europe I would not change rafa 4 anyone! he proved that over and over , but in the prem , he is still learning his trade

      Thats true alright. Just give him time and the funds and he will make it happen. That sh*t who writes for the NOTW said that we had a decision to make as to how much time a Champions League win should buy a manager. Well I have a very smart answer, it should be as much time as a struggling manager gets for winning the FA Cup. Thats what I say.

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