What's wrong with the Starting Line-Up?

Seen a few people saying on here that the starting line-up against Villa was our strongest preferred set-up - so it's not the managers fault it's the team:

I disagree!

1. Half the season gone - and we still do not have a partnership upfront - REGULAR - WHY??

2. WHY hasn't RAFA tried Babel and Torres upfront more ??

Sorry to state the obvious - but 3 weeks past Xmas and we are out out the Championship Race.  Does that not PISS everyone off?  If it doesn't then there's something very wrong!

Doesnt piss me off per say but its disappointing to drift away. Our line up is strong no matter who we put on the field, we are in a bad place right now and with all the distraction, you cannot certainly think it wont affect on field performances. Once our behind the scenes distraction is over, we can get baccto winning ways and the results will come in.

People will recall that Chelsea went through a rough time when Mourinho was leaving and a few bad results came in, he left and every thing was back on track within a month. Not saying Rafa should leave so we can get back on track as it will be backwards rather than forwards step IMO but the Yanks will go and we can see a different attitude on the field. Untill then, show up in numbers to our matches with a smile and singing loud, let the boys know we are here for support and to lift them.

To a degree I would suggest that there is no full first XI starting line up for LFC.

If you ask a neutral what is the best starting XI for Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool, I'm sure they could name Man U's fairly easily & maybe Arsenal's but Liverpool's? Not so easy is it..?

Rafa picks players to start each match if they can show they put in the performance every game ie Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Torres & probably Agger when fit. Mach is getting the nod over Alonso just recently but Xabi maybe eased back in after his time out injured.

Other squad players are drafted in & out too frequently for my liking...that for me unsettles a team.

Ray Houghton on Sky Sports has just echoed my sentiments about best team should be on the pitch every game...Rafa needs to decide what that team is

this was our line up against luton town @ anfield .
                                                itandje
 
             arbeloa            carra                 hyypia           riise


            pennant           alonso              gerrard         babel

                                 crouch                torres

result 5-0 >

why does rafa mess about with the system , 1-0 up last nite , we should be going for the kill 2-0 and it would av been game over , villa must of been rubbing there hands last nite at our line up , no alonso , no babel , no crouch . this putting more pressure on sg &ft to deliver , the above line up would have been a lot more attack minded , and that is what we should be doing at home isnt it !

this was our line up against luton town @ anfield .
                                                itandje
 
             arbeloa            carra                 hyypia           riise


            pennant           alonso              gerrard         babel

                                 crouch                torres

result 5-0 >

why does rafa mess about with the system , 1-0 up last nite , we should be going for the kill 2-0 and it would av been game over , villa must of been rubbing there hands last nite at our line up , no alonso , no babel , no crouch . this putting more pressure on sg &ft to deliver , the above line up would have been a lot more attack minded , and that is what we should be doing at home isnt it !

Didn't mean for this to get into 'WHAT'S OUR BEST TEAM' - just wanted to state that the problem is 'FINISHING TEAMS OFF':

And that's the fact that Rafa has 'swapped and changed' between Kuyt, Crouch and Voronin so many times this term that we have no 'Best Strikeforce'.

Kuyt, Voronin and Crouch are cack anyway !

The players have to understand that as a professional footballer they have a job to do, and do it well  inspite of the bickering behind the scene which they do not have any control over as they still get their weekly pay check. To blame the recent run of poor results on the backroom brawl is somewhat unacceptable and unprofessional, not that their pay check have been affected in any way. Instead, what is going on at the moment should spur the players to close ranks and play even better, if they do really mean to back the manager. But no, they chose to do otherwise.

In yesterday's game it is the same old story, we're still too one dimensional in our play, no creativity in our attack but to be fair and on a positive note i can see players moving forward faster with greater urgency when on the attack. As i've mentioned too many times before, the real improvement needed is in the 4th quarter and also our shooting. Our players were lost most of the time at the 4th quarter not knowing whom to pass the final ball to while players tend to shy away from receiving the final pass, that's the impression that i've. Benayoun has the last ball on numerous occasions but not knowing whom to pass to, if that's the case just dash ahead and try to beat the defence and create something out of it. No he delayed, hesitated dribbled and eventually losing possession.

I just wonder what is really needed to be done to improve Kuyt's game. He was given far too many chances to prove himself and he has failed time and again. His first touch is not what we expect of a forward not to mention his shooting. Something is horribly wrong with his game, we need to put him into a rehabilitation centre to improve his first touch, passing and also shooting. Otherwise, I'm afraid he has to go comes the end of the season. When I saw the teamsheet with Kuyt's name, I'm telling myself, there we go again struggling to score with the chances created. The greatest dissapointment being Rafa not starting Babel. He has proven on previous occassions that he teamed up well with Torres and by far the most effective attacking partnership. No he chose to partner Torres with Kuyt. If Rafa can't see the obvious flaws I think he will be getting more draws in future which will be back to haunt him while finishing 4th may even prove to be a difficult task for him.

Its ok having a prefered starting 11 but they need to play the same line up week in week out,how many of our team could you honestly say would start every game i can only say Reina,Carra,Gerrard and Torres compare that to Man Utd and Arsenal there teams virtually picks its self and they are on fire,i know its the same old argument of Rafas rotation policy doesnt work but it doesnt and thats that.

Once again, and quite franky I'm getting sick of repeating myself, why doesn't one person criticise rotation when we're winning if it's such a problem? It is being used as a scapegoat and nothing more, all the stats show that the other top clubs make just as many changes as we do, the media have decided to use this as a weapon against us though, and unfortunately a lot of our own fans have jumped on the bandwagon.

Once again, and quite franky I'm getting sick of repeating myself, why doesn't one person criticise rotation when we're winning if it's such a problem? It is being used as a scapegoat and nothing more, all the stats show that the other top clubs make just as many changes as we do, the media have decided to use this as a weapon against us though, and unfortunately a lot of our own fans have jumped on the bandwagon.

EDc - When we're winning...?  When are we ever winning mate?

That's the problem - we are in a bad way at the moment and people on here just cannot fecking admit it - beacuse they're stuck in the 'Liverpool are the still the best' syndrome!

May be some of you should show some 'balls' and admit things aren't right - and they need fixing soon - or the season will get worse.

I look at us now and we are miles behind Arsenal and Mancs - in squad quality, and that's the truth.

Rotation of our forwards has caused us problems - my opinion anyway. 

Once again, and quite franky I'm getting sick of repeating myself, why doesn't one person criticise rotation when we're winning if it's such a problem? It is being used as a scapegoat and nothing more, all the stats show that the other top clubs make just as many changes as we do, the media have decided to use this as a weapon against us though, and unfortunately a lot of our own fans have jumped on the bandwagon.

Changes are fine Eddie...knowing your best 11-16 players, playing them in position & making changes when need is essential for consistent results & team morale.

Rafa can be a little slow in making attacking changes during games when obviously needed but he is quiet happy to make wholesale changes before a game which I feel upset the team ethic.

Richobaz I accept that things aren't right at the moment, I just don't think rotation is the problem, we have always 'rotated' under Rafa & have won two trophies, got to another two finals & achieved our highest Premiership points total.
 
DM, you say we make 'wholesale' changes, all the stats show that we don't make any more changes than the other top clubs. I do agree though that Rafa leaves his subs til too late in the game though.

Haha love the topic

It's true though, we don't have a first XI because some of our players are mediocre.

Rafa trys to buy two players each posistion.. these two players have the same qualities as each other.. therefore they can't be too good because you wouldn't have Cristiano Ronaldo & Lionel Messi in the same team with one of them benched at a time would you? So what you have to do is buy a Jermaine Pennant & Benayoun because they would accept being rotated!

What Rafa needs to really do is forget his rotation policy and start buying better first team players and just having not so good backup if that has to be the case. Its better than having two average players in each posistion if you know what I mean.

Richobaz I accept that things aren't right at the moment, I just don't think rotation is the problem, we have always 'rotated' under Rafa & have won two trophies, got to another two finals & achieved our highest Premiership points total.
 
DM, you say we make 'wholesale' changes, all the stats show that we don't make any more changes than the other top clubs. I do agree though that Rafa leaves his subs til too late in the game though.

So you don't think the rotation of our forwards is a major concern/problem?

Apart from Torres - I haven't got a clue who should be playing up top - but why is that - no one has had long enough to prove they are worthy of the role.

Voronin started well - then faded and got left out.  Crouch never got a chance, then got a chance then didn't get a chance again.  Kuyt seems to be the preferred partner for Torres - but he's got zero confidence now - from not scoring and not playing regularly - it embarrassing for him.  I feel sorry to see him playing like this now.

OK the other top 3 clubs can afford to make those changes because the quality of their squad is better than the quality of Liverpool's squad.

For Liverpool I suppose I meant its 'wholesale' when it's substandard replacing quality...the other 3 can replace like with like.

The best 11 should always be on the pitch first & foremost

Good point DMOsbon. Rotation is part and parcel of the modern game so it isn't such a big deal. The problem with Benitez and his rotating is that his squad isn't as strong as the other big 3 so the players we bring in invariably aren't up to it and the standard drops. He needs to accept certain players just aren't giving anything to the team so he can't afford to rotate unless absolutely necessary.

Kuyt has no reason whatsoever to be starting matches after the miserable form  he has shown all season. Veronin should not play again unless we have an injury crisis. We all know Crouch is no Owen or Anelka but he is the best we have to partner Torres and it seems like sheer fckn lunacy to give Crouch an odd start here and there and then when he doesn't score every game drop him again. Yet regularly play Dirk Kuyt who has hardly scored a goal from open play all season.  Kuyt thinks he's a defender playing up front and we wonder why we struggle for goals? Babel is the only other alternative to partner Torres but Benitez won't play him consistently in that role either.

totally agree with the kuyt situation , his first touch is appaling for a front man , i think our best option up top would be crouch & nando , with babel & pennant supplying from the flanks .

I'll criticise rotation win or lose.

it has come to the point where only 5 players are guaranteed (or at last 80% certain) start.

Reina, Hyypia, Carra, Stevie, Nando.

when you start rotating the full backs the problems occur. At least last season it was always finnan, carra, aggerand Riise, we weren't conceding and werent scoring. Now we have a goalscorer Rafa is fiddling with the back line, its time to be ruthless, if players dont pull their weight leave them out, let them prove their worth in training and the odd oppurtunity.

I think rafa may think rotation keeps everyone on their toes, but its having the opposite effect. it has nothing to do with the quality of the other 3 squads.They only rotate one or two players at a time a la O'shea and fletcher at utd

take fabio last night for instance , he looked nervous , panicking on the ball , with nothing to hit in front of him knowing that kewell hasnt the pace to beat a full back , i think it was a panic selection by rafa for the left back spot , we must look into the market for this position now.

IMO (In my Opinion) the problem may be in the formation. we do not have enough quality strikers to effectively carry out a 4-4-2 formation. what we can do is start with a 4-5-1 and then change to a 4-4-2 formation 30 minutes to the end of the game, when we can then introduce the super sub, Crouch, who, when he starts a game, he is a shadow of his brilliant self, but when he comes in as a sub, he is brilliant. We can play alonso and Mascherano in a 4-5-1 with Pennant and Babel in the wings and Gerrard behind Torres. That is much better that a non-scoring partner (Kuyt, Veronin, Crouch) with Torres upfront.

The oppositions are beginning to realize that once Torres has been marked out, the other strikers are close to useless.  

It doesn't have enough quality.Ask yourself how many of our players would get into another top european sides' starting XI.

Reina,Carra,Agger,Gerrard,Torres and Mascherano(if we buy him).So that's 5/6 with only 2 major goal threads.Hence the lack of consistency/rotation debate.

I like Babel but then he's not proven yet. The rest are either average or mediocre or "on their day" players.That's why we have been so far off the top for so many years .

Until we buy quality players for ridiculous amounts of money we will remain "a cup team" and in terms of the league "a sleeping giant".

---------------------------------------------REINA--------------------------------------------

--------Finnan----------Agger--------------------------Carragher---------------------Aurelio

------------------------------------Mascherano---------------------------------------------------


-------------------------------Gerrard--------------Alonso-----------------------------------

---------------------------------------------Babel---------------------------------------------------

------------------------------Crouch--------------------------------Nino-------------------------



I don't give a damn about the supposed lack of width...let Finnan and Aurelio get forward. Here, Crouch IS our width, in that he facilitates us up front. Knock it long, and Peter is winning it. He can knock it down, drag bigger defenders like Ferdinand, Vidic. Lescott off Torres, Babel....has huge speed. Let hm float around in behind the front too. Torres....enough said. It will be up to the wingbacks to bomb forward and get the crosses in, let that be a second string to our bow.

I don't want to here about predicatibility.....how you can predict what Torres, Babel and Crouch are going to be getting up to at any minute.??

EDc - When we're winning...?  When are we ever winning mate?

That's the problem - we are in a bad way at the moment and people on here just cannot fecking admit it - beacuse they're stuck in the 'Liverpool are the still the best' syndrome!

May be some of you should show some 'balls' and admit things aren't right - and they need fixing soon - or the season will get worse.

I look at us now and we are miles behind Arsenal and Mancs - in squad quality, and that's the truth.

Rotation of our forwards has caused us problems - my opinion anyway. 
________________________ ________________________ ________________
I totally agree with you, we are way behind M.utd, Arsenal, and Chelsea. Benitez has spent great deal of money on very average players the likes of Kuyt, Aurelio, Leto, Voronin (he is free with high wages), and others more. We have a very big squad of players in league, and Benitez has failed badly to produce a wining team week in week out.

Do you expect Kuyt or Voronin, or even Kewell can get in those top three teams? not a chance, but Benitez still selects those three useless players almost every game and ahead of Babel, and Crouch!!!.

As for his reserves players, he never gives them a chance in his first team, since Houllier and Benitez LFC has lost its way, and the standards had badly dropped, we are not being able to produce very promising players from our youth system, where, we were one of the masters at it over the past years before Houllier and Benitez had been in charge!!!. 

There is a very big worrying issue concerning the new American owners, how they only be interested to make more profit for themselves by borrowing huge money against the club, and I thought from the outset by selling the club to those two was a grave mistake.

I think the LFC right is at the cross road stage, not knowing what will happen from now until end of the season, I think the owners would like to get rid of Benitez, but do not have the money to pay him off!, the second issue they want just wait and see if the can secure another sale of the club with better profit for them, that is why they are not interested how the team is preforming.
I am sorry if I hurt your feeling, but it is very much a grim reality, and our beloved LFC is in decline.

Liverpool are in decline, everyone can see that. The solution is though not be so negative. Vent your anger in a constructive way.

I have to say this about Rafa, and I am a great, great fan of the man...

His continual (optimistic) selection of either Dirk or Voro - is mis-placed - both are shot of confidence ...and if anything should be loaned out for the rest of the season ... to regain a bit of that lost confidence.

Pulling on another shirt that isn't LFC might do the trick - Dirk to Feyernoord and Voro to Havant.

Maybe even Crouch should be sold - we need to raise some funds for David Villa - who is quite obviously up for sale - BUT will probably go to Juande Ramos at Spurs now... with all the sh*t and insecurity surrounding Rafa at the minute... crying shame. Not the first to turn us down recently either... and won't be the last.