Lucas Leiva (Liverpool > S.S. Lazio)

I think Lucas was poor, as well as Johnson.

However there's no need to be @rseholes about it. Critisize, sure, but unconstructive sh*t bag criticisms should be left to fans of other clubs in my opinion.

We should be better than that. Lucas is still our player and we should support him, even though he played poor. Not take wild glee in critisizing him like some on here. It's like some posters lives are so sad, they take pleasure in berating our own f#cking players.

Not cool

Gerrard's reaction to Lucas giving away another clumsy/stupid foul in the 94th minute, I suspect 'most' felt the same way.

https://vine.co/v/M13ddD9Pntr

Gerrard's reaction to Lucas giving away another clumsy/stupid foul in the 94th minute, I suspect 'most' felt the same way.

https://vine.co/v/M13ddD9Pntr

Thought the same at the time 'what the F**k is he doing'? that could have proved a very expensive gesture.
That in truth is all it was.
Lucas does not have the wherewithal to track and tackle adequately any more, his legs are gone and he lacks the speed of yesteryear, he has to resort to 'Billy Blunder' tactics in the hope that will suffice in the effort dept.
The fact's are he could easily have been sent off or injured Stirling, injuring himself is probably the least damaging option until you realise Lucas is only out there because we are F***ing desperate in the midfield area right now.
Been good to know ya Lucas an all that stuff.

Thought the same at the time 'what the f**k is he doing'? that could have proved a very expensive gesture.
That in truth is all it was.
Lucas does not have the wherewithal to track and tackle adequately any more, his legs are gone and he lacks the speed of yesteryear, he has to resort to 'Billy Blunder' tactics in the hope that will suffice in the effort dept.
The fact's are he could easily have been sent off or injured Stirling, injuring himself is probably the least damaging option until you realise Lucas is only out there because we are f**king desperate in the midfield area right now.
Been good to know ya Lucas an all that stuff.

He was playing well before he got injured in January. His most recent comeback against west ham wasn't too bad. He has spent the last five years playing a holding role. He is 27. Maybe he isn't quite match fit yet and maybe he's not quite ready for the scrap heap.

He was playing well before he got injured in January. His most recent comeback against west ham wasn't too bad. He has spent the last five years playing a holding role. He is 27. Maybe he isn't quite match fit yet and maybe he's not quite ready for the scrap heap.

If we are to step up to the next level there is no place for the tactics such as displayed against Norwich, once or twice is acceptable over a number of games but the number of times Lucas is resorting to such measures tells me there is an issue to be confronted.
I can honestly say I held the player in high esteem in his better days but unfortunately the team cannot afford an inferior model of the original Lucas Lieva.

Must say, I've noticed that too. Rank hypocrisy.

Not as far as I'm concerned.

Lucas may well have been below par yesterday but to get called a 'wretched terrible player' after coming back into the side after injury is a bit much.

Personally, I thought he was very, ordinary yesterday. I'm putting it down to 'ring-rust' and 'position played' but (in my opinion) he looked way off the pace, a bit of a passenger and a bit lost at times.

Personally, I thought he was very, ordinary yesterday. I'm putting it down to 'ring-rust' and 'position played' but (in my opinion) he looked way off the pace, a bit of a passenger and a bit lost at times.

I wonder, given that pretty much everyone agrees he wasn't the best and isn't suited to the slot he's being played in, do we bite the bullet and move Gerrard for the Chelsea game if Sturridge isn't fit? There can't be many people left who dispute that Gerrard is a far better option as a holder than Lucas, but equally he is a far better option further up than the Brazilian. Arguably, the way to get the best out of the sum of the parts available in midfield is to play Lucas in the only spot where he can hide his lack of legs and shove Stevie further up. 

Often in football there is a chain reaction caused by a tiny fault somewhere, and the fault manifests itself in a completely different area of the pitch. This causes fans and commentators to jump on the effect rather than the cause, and the challenge is to try and see the wood from the trees a little bit.

 Yesterday my read was that we got found out a little in that Southampton exploited our weaknesses very cleverly. They are a highly physical team, not in the sense that they foul a lot but in the sense that they have an abundance of energy. As such, they pressed higher up than even they normally do, and in doing so asked us a question we didn't have an answer to. Why not? Well we didn't have any sort of out ball whatsoever. Lucas is unable to get away from the centre halves for fear of being passed around should we lose it (he must surely be the slowest player in the league I think). Gerrard has to sit in to protect both Lucas and the back four, Aspas was unable to influence the game in any way shape or form. So where are the defenders going to pass it when they get pressured? Moses maybe, Sturridge perhaps, but both are low percentage balls and alien to what we are actually trying to do.

 When you are as comprehensively out run, out competed and out thought as we were yesterday it is easy to jump to the wrong conclusion. "Lack of creativity" is the call, but if you rarely are able to get the ball into the opponents half AND GET PLAYERS FORWARD before they have flooded the edge of their box it makes it very difficult to create anything. This is particularly so when we are missing our arch lock picker, and I wonder if those who were advocating starting him on the bench still think so.

 The problem we are going to have is that other teams will now seek to emulate Southamptons success. If we have such a complete lack of mobility in midfield, they ARE going to be able to swarm around us and pin us back on the edge of our own box. Every team we have played so far this season has managed it, so others will too. And what is the solution? Well, no really successful teams play with two holding midfielders who both sit in. At most you need one holder, and he MUST be able to have enough pace to allow him to occasionally get further than 20 yards away from the centre backs.

 When you clear the wood from the trees the problems we are having are obvious. I know it won't make me popular but replace Lucas with a more energetic and athletic midfielder and much of our "lack ofs" would become a thing of the past. Joe Allen? All day long for me yes.     

A post from September 22nd last year (from page 322), at the start of the "Is Lucas holding us back" thread which was (wrongly IMHO) merged with this Lucas one. It was straight after we had been completely overrun at Home by Southampton. Interestingly, it was before the return of Suarez and it reminded me that many posters at the time were advocating leaving the best player in the league on the bench.

Anyway it started some very heated discussion about Lucas and later on whether or not Gerrard could fill the role. Our run of winning results has coincided with Gerrard being back in and Lucas being out of there, I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating in this case.

The problem we are going to have should we reinstate Lucas for Sundays game is to convince Gerrard to leave him to it and not make it a "two holder" situation where him and Lucas are stood next to each other all game. I can appreciate the captains temptation to get back and help out, but we saw earlier in the season it suits neither player.

I wonder, given that pretty much everyone agrees he wasn't the best and isn't suited to the slot he's being played in, do we bite the bullet and move Gerrard for the Chelsea game if Sturridge isn't fit? There can't be many people left who dispute that Gerrard is a far better option as a holder than Lucas, but equally he is a far better option further up than the Brazilian. Arguably, the way to get the best out of the sum of the parts available in midfield is to play Lucas in the only spot where he can hide his lack of legs and shove Stevie further up. 

I don't think Chelsea will play a high pressing game against us. I think they will play similarly to how Milan played against Barca.... sit deep and have 3 fast runners to hit us on the break.( Willian, Salah, Torres for example), so I think we will need someone who will just "sit there", especially without Henderson's engine. For me it is a straight choice between Lucas sitting or playing 3 at the back (Agger coming in). Personally I prefer Lucas sitting with Gerrard being free to control the game just for this game with our limited options. Hopefully Sturridge will be back and solve the problem!

I think goals will be at a premium as Chelsea will leave no space behind for us to exploit, so it is vital we don't leave ourselves soft at the back.
 

I'm not too concerned by it. Lucas simply doesn't have the legs to fill the void left by Henderson, who is undoubtedly a huge miss. I think Lucas is only good as *the* DM in the side, to be honest, as long as he has a lot of mobility around him (e.g., at Tottenham where he sat and Allen and Hendo covered tons of ground).

Next season, Gerrard will be our DM and Lucas will be his backup. That's pretty good depth at the position if you ask me.

We are 3 games away from our first title in 24 years,we should not be trying to accommodate a player who is clearly not up to it anymore,we need 11 players against the chavs not 10 and a half,an option would be to play Agger in Stevies role and push Stevie up,just an option, but on yesterdays evidence Lucas should not be in the starting 11 against the chavs

The stick this lad gets is unbelievable for the effort he puts in. First things first, the negatives, he gave away the ball a couple of times in the first few minutes, considering he's just returning to the team a little leeway for rustiness would surely apply here. He gave away a bad foul on the last minute that was stupid, probably due to tiredness having been asked to cover more of the pitch than he's used to.

In case it wasn't noticed he was the guy supporting the attack when Joe Allen clearly had no legs left (after getting ran away from a couple of times and subsequently getting his collar felt). This isn't a dig at Joe who was clearly our best player in the first half and faded badly as the 2nd half went on, if he'd kept up his first half level he'd have easily been MotM.

Lucas who also gets accused of not contributing to the attack played the through ball for Flanno to win the pen against West Ham, a sublime pass. Afterwards both Gerrard and Brendan come out and say what a difference he made, how he changed the game. Yesterday he's the one who won the tackle in their half that almost put Joe Allen through, he's the one who was up there in the 90th minute trying to score, he also arrived in the box on many other occasions yesterday. Showing when it is actually asked of him he can do it and supporting the theory that it wasn't in his role to get into the box. Just as you don't see Gerrard now getting into the box as it isn't part of his role either, the difference clearly being the passing range Gerrard offers and greater mobility across the back four.

Out of our midfielders though, despite what many of those above seem to suggest, he was (Gerrard/Coutinho/Allen/Lucas):

2nd on passes made.
They all had passing accuracy in the mid to high 80%
3rd on passing accuracy in the opposing half.
Long passes was way behind Gerrard, so was everyone else, nobody bar him scored more than 2.
Short passes 2nd.
Duels won 2nd.
Duels lost worst.
Aerial duels won best.
Aerial duels lost joint worst of 3 with 1.
Recoveries 2nd.
Tackles 2nd.
Clearances joint 2nd.
Blocks joint 2nd.
Interceptions joint best.
Fouls won 0.
Fouls conceded worst.

So for a lad playing out of position, just returning to the team and contributing as he did above I think the level of stick he's received here is beyond harsh and bordering on ridiculous. Yes he's slow, nobody disputes that but criticising him only because of his lack of pace without giving credit for the effort he's put in is unbalanced unfair and agenda driven in my opinion.

Just like the way it's slanted that he no longer gets in the team, well it's a pretty simple thing when Gerrard has adapted so well to his position that he's not going to get in the team but as a back-up to him he's about the best back-up option we have coming off the bench. Our squad is paper thin, Gerrard is prone to the odd injury and is not exactly a spring chicken and we've now secured CL football, chucking Lucas on the scrap heap as some of you suggest is simply dumb in my opinion.

The lad has proven, to me at least, that he can do a job out of position, is a decent back-up for Gerrard at a push and has a extremely positive attitude in the dressing room as backed up by Brendan's quotes on many an occasion. Ideal squad member material.

Lucas can still do a job as a DM but if he is to play in midfield then BR needs to yank him off after 60mins as that seems to be his limit at the moment.
He could of course still be short of match fitness after his long lay off.

I'm not too concerned by it. Lucas simply doesn't have the legs to fill the void left by Henderson, who is undoubtedly a huge miss. I think Lucas is only good as *the* DM in the side, to be honest, as long as he has a lot of mobility around him (e.g., at Tottenham where he sat and Allen and Hendo covered tons of ground).

Next season, Gerrard will be our DM and Lucas will be his backup. That's pretty good depth at the position if you ask me.

Can't see Rodgers being too desperate to keep Lucas if he brings in another midfielder. In the time he has been injured he has dropped down the list considerably with all of Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson and Allen placed ahead of him. Personally I think his long term future at Liverpool is in question, a large part of which has been done by Gerrard and his successful adaption to DM.

the lad has just come back from a big injury and people expect him to have the touch of Messi.FFS get a grip the lad does the job the managers  tell him to do and he has played a lot of games for this club so he must have some talent.
He is a far better footballer than his DM position would suggest but he is very disciplined and that's why managers like him he does his job well

Can't see Rodgers being too desperate to keep Lucas if he brings in another midfielder. In the time he has been injured he has dropped down the list considerably with all of Gerrard, Coutinho, Henderson and Allen placed ahead of him. Personally I think his long term future at Liverpool is in question, a large part of which has been done by Gerrard and his successful adaption to DM.

Wrong. Rodgers has stated several times this seaon how much he rates Lucas prasing his attitude and quality. We will need much more depth next season and Lucas will be even more valuable to the squad. As long as Lucas is ok with not starting every game he should still get plenty of game time next season as I imagine Brendan will have to juggle the squad more than he had to this season given the number of competitions we will be involved in.

The problem we are going to have should we reinstate Lucas for Sundays game is to convince Gerrard to leave him to it and not make it a "two holder" situation where him and Lucas are stood next to each other all game. I can appreciate the captains temptation to get back and help out, but we saw earlier in the season it suits neither player.

Exactly Mick.

Gerrard has to stay where he is and if Brendan feels Lucas can't offer what he wants further forward then he'll have to bite the bullet and either play Alberto there or move Coutinho back again and start Moses or Aspas.

Personally I don't think Lucas was as bad as some make him out at the weekend and maybe with a start behind him and another weeks work on the training ground to fine tune his role it still may be our best option.

Gerrard has to stay where he is and if Brendan feels Lucas can't offer what he wants further forward then he'll have to bite the bullet and either play Alberto there or move Coutinho back again and start Moses or Aspas.

Moses can't play as he's on loan from the Chavs.  If Studge is fit, then I can't see it being anything but a 4-4-2 diamond:

                Stevie
          Allen       Coutinho
                Sterling
           Studge  Suarez

Lucas will be a good option to come off the bench and replace Coutinho in the latter stages to hold onto the lead we will undoubtedly be guarding as the game wears on

Moses can't play as he's on loan from the Chavs.  If Studge is fit, then I can't see it being anything but a 4-4-2 diamond:

                Stevie
          Allen       Coutinho
                Sterling
           Studge  Suarez

Lucas will be a good option to come off the bench and replace Coutinho in the latter stages to hold onto the lead we will undoubtedly be guarding as the game wears on

Forgot about that.

I can't see anything other than same again then unless Sturridge makes it.

Forgot about that.

I can't see anything other than same againthen unless Sturridge makes it.

I actually think Sturridge was a bigger miss than people are giving him credit.

I honestly cannot believe that a couple of posters have advocated moving Gerrard to get Lucas playing in a position he is more comfortable with. This has very little to do with whether Lucas is able to do the job but more to do with the fact people would actually consider and tinker (I'm sure Rafa would be hung drawn and quartered for even thinking this, never mind implementing it) with a tried and tested winning formula for one of the 3 remaining games of the season when we're on the cusp of winning our first league in 24 years. It's utter fvcking madness!

We have finally found a dynamic in midfield that has seen us in title winning form - this type of form has come round less often than Halley's comet. After much deliberation by many Reds' fans, who wrote Gerrard off in this position, or rolled out the old cliches that he isn't disciplined enough, intelligent enough, too gung-ho and all the other BS; Rodgers and Gerrard himself have proved those armchair theories to be utterly wrong and instead it has brought about one of the captains' best seasons' performances for many a year - and who would have thought that at the ripe old age of 33!?

FWIW, I was firmly behind the idea of playing Gerrard where he is playing today and one of the small reasons for that was, Stevie himself doesn't have the endurance, stamina and legs to play a Henderson-esk role in midfield. This job of pressing, is for the younger, energetic lads who can get about the pitch and use their strengths to the team's advantage. This reason alone rules out why Gerrard shouldn't be tinkered with further up the pitch, in actual fact, similar to the reasons why Lucas can't do it either even though he's a younger player the bloke simply doesn't have it in his locker to do the job.

This, to shoe-horn a DM into the side who offers nowhere near enough in the DM role as Gerrard does? CRAZY. We have the likes of Coutinho, Sterling, Suarez & hopefully Sturridge (I'll get back to him in a mo) so it's not as though we're short on fire-power or creativity that sees us, or some, for one weird reason advocate Gerrard moving up. No, it's to shoe-horn another player into the the core of the team and to accommodate.

Midfield is VITAL. If you have a formula (personnel) who are doing the important work of stamping their authority on the game and who are winning the right as a team to play, along with defensively covering the team and offensively supporting the team then you shouldn't fvck with it. Especially considering the time, importance of the upcoming games, it's totally illogical.

It's simple for me, you keep the midfield as it is, Lucas though is an able deputy for Gerrard and I agree with the poster who said he'll be important next year, so long as he doesn't mind warming the bench from time to time. Still, with that said and with the midfielders available at the minute we should be looking IMO to play a trio or diamond of Gerrard-Allen-Coutinho----with Sterling if the plan is to go with a diamond. Coutinho has shown he can get amongst it and propel us with forward going momentum, Lucas can't. If Sturridge is out then the accommodating should be done on the forward line and even though he's not the best player around Iago Aspas should come in to leave the midfield in tact and support an already potent forward line.

I honestly cannot believe that a couple of posters have advocated moving Gerrard to get Lucas playing in a position he is more comfortable with.

I'm not sure anyone did.