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      From Houlding To Henry

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      dunlop liddell shankly
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      From Houlding To Henry
      Jan 19, 2015 11:39:02 pm
      Not so long ago I wrote a piece called "From Houlding To Hicks" pleading with fans to not give our, then, owners any more of your money. It's here should you wish to read it http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,31412.msg711677.html#msg711677. But this one isn't in that vein, more of a look of how John W Henry, Tom Werner and whoever else is involved with FSG are doing their business.

      123 years ago the dream started. John Houlding would form Liverpool Football Club, a football club who would go on to become the most successful club in England, the biggest club in the world and the envy of supporters of any football fan. Not only did we have world class players and an incomparable fanbase, we also had the right people owning the club.

      People who had the club's intentions right at their heart were at the helm. John Houlding passed the reigns onto his own son, William, it eventually changed hands and was run by our very first manager, Irish businessman, John McKenna. The Williams family, William McConnell who was one of the few men to be adored in and out of the House of Commons. The wonderful John Smith. Even David Moores, who cops a lot a stick on this forum, loved Liverpool Football Club. None of them would willingly put Liverpool in danger (although that assumption of Moores is questionable)

      Then we had the era of Hicks and Gillett. The era that put the future of this great club in danger. Would we actually have a club tomorrow? It's a time in our history that is dark but one we can't ignore. And truth be told, shouldn't ignore. Because what it did, was bring Liverpool fans together and closer. It made the bond between fellow Reds even stronger. We can all be as one when everything is going well but when times are hard, like they were for those three and a bit years, is when you see what your fans are really made of. There were many directions fans wanted us to go in but there was one common goal, getting Tom Hicks and George Gillett away from our club. We did that.

      Helped in our cause by John W Henry and FSG/NESV. They took the club over, stabilised us financially and, eventually, got the ball officially moving in terms of an increased capacity at Anfield. Some may not like them because they're not throwing billions of pounds into the transfer kitty, some may not like them because of the precieved notion that they are doing everything in their power to cut wages. Some of that may even be true. But since they took over, we've seen an increase in our fortunes.

      This year, marks our third semi final under the stewardship of FSG. That could go up should we progress in the FA Cup and Europe as well. We've played the best football of the Premiership era under the stewardship of FSG. We've reverted back to the days of keeping the problems in-house. No longer are we on the backs of newspapers because of the fighting among board and staff. They also don't seem to be media craving bas**rds like some owners.

      Yes FSG have got their faults and those faults ultimately lead to them having detractors. One of their biggest faults is being American, after the last pair of cowboys we had from across the Atlantic, it made some Liverpool fans uneasy towards the new yanks. And I think that initial worry still holds a strong feeling with some fans. The cost cutting of wages, the better players leaving, the lower wage signings. It all adds up to people having doubts about them. That's understandable.

      But I'm of the opinion that owners are there to simply sign the cheques. If I don't see them or hear them then they're doing what I want from the owner of my football club. That's the way Liverpool Football Club should be. We were the benchmark of the game because of how well we were ran off the pitch. If I could change one thing, it'd be this "committee" idea. One man should be making the decisions on which player he wants to buy - the manager.

      Aside from that, I think we've got decent owners. And there's not too many of those around nowadays.
      lfc across the water
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #1: Jan 20, 2015 08:43:12 am
      Quote
      John W Henry and FSG/NESV. They took the club over, stabilised us financially and, eventually, got the ball officially moving in terms of an increased capacity at Anfield. Some may not like them because they're not throwing billions of pounds into the transfer kitty, some may not like them because of the precieved notion that they are doing everything in their power to cut wages. Some of that may even be true. But since they took over, we've seen an increase in our fortunes.

      This year, marks our third semi final under the stewardship of FSG. That could go up should we progress in the FA Cup and Europe as well. We've played the best football of the Premiership era under the stewardship of FSG. We've reverted back to the days of keeping the problems in-house. No longer are we on the backs of newspapers because of the fighting among board and staff. They also don't seem to be media craving bas**rds like some owners.

      Yes FSG have got their faults and those faults ultimately lead to them having detractors. One of their biggest faults is being American, after the last pair of cowboys we had from across the Atlantic, it made some Liverpool fans uneasy towards the new yanks. And I think that initial worry still holds a strong feeling with some fans. The cost cutting of wages, the better players leaving, the lower wage signings. It all adds up to people having doubts about them. That's understandable.

      But I'm of the opinion that owners are there to simply sign the cheques. If I don't see them or hear them then they're doing what I want from the owner of my football club. That's the way Liverpool Football Club should be. We were the benchmark of the game because of how well we were ran off the pitch. If I could change one thing, it'd be this "committee" idea. One man should be making the decisions on which player he wants to buy - the manager.

      Aside from that, I think we've got decent owners. And there's not too many of those around nowadays.

      There are valid points there, but you forgot one important detail. They have "Sacked Kenny Dalglish" on their cv, in humiliating fashion to rub it in. It's something you just don't do at this club.

      Yes I like that Anfield will be expanded rather than torn up, and they're better than who they took over from. That wouldn't be very difficult in fairness.
      AmericanPlant
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #2: Jan 20, 2015 08:53:21 am

      And THAT is why we are now one of the laughing stocks of football...  :roll:
      AmericanPlant
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #3: Jan 20, 2015 08:56:14 am
      No better a team than the last days of Hicks and Gilette.
      Yet some are still licking Henry and Werner's (and the faceless 16) arses.
      While they sh*t on the fans.

      If Bill and Bob were still around today, I reckon they'd knock it on the head after reading the tripe that gets posted on plants., sorry fans sites.
      Probably to do a more working man's thing. Like Harlequins F***ing rugby.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #4: Jan 20, 2015 09:07:26 am
      And THAT is why we are now one of the laughing stocks of football...  :roll:

      I think we should wait until May before branding ourselves "laughing stocks". Still a lot of football to he played potentially three cups to be won and a CL spot to attain.
      bazspeedman
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #5: Jan 20, 2015 09:18:14 am
      There are valid points there, but you forgot one important detail. They have "Sacked Kenny Dalglish" on their cv, in humiliating fashion to rub it in. It's something you just don't do at this club.

      Yes I like that Anfield will be expanded rather than torn up, and they're better than who they took over from. That wouldn't be very difficult in fairness.

      Kenny was never in the owners long term plans mate I think he was always seen as an interim appointment to help steer the ship back on course after the Bodgson debacle which he did admirably. But the owners should have signed him on an interim basis and not handed him a three year contract knowing full well they were going to replace him as soon as they found a manager that fit into to their long term strategy.
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #6: Jan 20, 2015 09:36:43 am
      And THAT is why we are now one of the laughing stocks of football...  :roll:

      I don't know one single person who thinks that be they ours or opposition fans. All the positives that DLS points out in his OP are valid and rather than comment on them you choose to just chuck in your negatives.

      You're in a minority of one in my world.
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #7: Jan 20, 2015 11:12:12 am
      This year, marks our third semi final under the stewardship of FSG.
      Not forgetting that we finished runners up in the League of course.  :gt-happyup:

      Then again; we have to remember that winning the League or F.A. Cup actually means F**k all to them... "The FA Cup would not have made any difference had he won it, no, no." ~ John Henry... so giving them praise, for something [reaching semi-finals] they don't give a F**k about, is stretching it to say the least.

      I'm almost certain too that we reached the Champions League final and finished runners-up in the League under "the stewardship" of our last owners - so I'm not sure how valid that type praise is anyhow.

      I guess if you are to praise FSG for the achievements of our managers and players, in reaching semi-finals, then it's only fair that we add balance: under their "stewardship" we have also finished 6th, 7th and 8th.

      But hey... at least they aren't Hicks & Gillette so... good for them.  :gt-happyup:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK19iX3L87w
      « Last Edit: Jan 20, 2015 11:29:57 am by bad boy bubby »
      srslfc
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #8: Jan 20, 2015 11:25:34 am
      Not the worst owners in football but any stretch but I just don't feel they will ever measure 'success' in the same way that most of us supporters do.

      They don't see winning silverware as an objective more a by product along the way and being in the CL and increasing profit is their 'success'.

      I'd take a cup every year over top four and FSG are the complete opposite.
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #9: Jan 20, 2015 11:45:02 am
      « Last Edit: Jan 20, 2015 06:12:28 pm by ayrton77, Reason: Fixed link »
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #10: Jan 20, 2015 12:07:00 pm

      Nope... that link isn't working mate - maybe you could describe it to me?  ;D
      ayrton77
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #11: Jan 20, 2015 06:12:50 pm
      Nope... that link isn't working mate - maybe you could describe it to me?  ;D

      Have a go now, tried fixing the link.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #12: Jan 20, 2015 06:12:59 pm
      There are valid points there, but you forgot one important detail. They have "Sacked Kenny Dalglish" on their cv, in humiliating fashion to rub it in. It's something you just don't do at this club.

      Yes I like that Anfield will be expanded rather than torn up, and they're better than who they took over from. That wouldn't be very difficult in fairness.

      They did sack Kenny, in a way that I didn't like either. But, as much as it disappointed me, Kenny was never their manager. They knew F**k all about football and wanted to get the fans on side as soon as possible. What better way to do that than bring Kenny Dalglish home? The fans appointed Kenny. Eighteen months to two years in the world of football and FSG thought they knew best. They went in the direction that they've pushed the club in ever since. A young manager with a bright future who wouldn't cost the earth.

      So while they have sacked Kenny, to some extent I can understand it if not accept the way it went about.
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #13: Jan 20, 2015 06:34:40 pm
      Not forgetting that we finished runners up in the League of course.  :gt-happyup:

      Not forgetting it indeed.

      Then again; we have to remember that winning the League or F.A. Cup actually means F**k all to them... "The FA Cup would not have made any difference had he won it, no, no." ~ John Henry... so giving them praise, for something [reaching semi-finals] they don't give a F**k about, is stretching it to say the least.

      To say they don't give a F**k about it is somewhat unfair, in my opinion. They don't attend many games, so the ones they do are obviously games they feel that little bit extra important. If memory serves me right, they did attend both Cup finals. As I've just said, Kenny was, in my opinion, never their man. So I think he would have been sacked for that, not because they don't care about the Cup competitions.

      I'm almost certain too that we reached the Champions League final and finished runners-up in the League under "the stewardship" of our last owners - so I'm not sure how valid that type praise is anyhow.

      The Champions League final under their stewardship is pushing it. They bought the club in February 2007, by which time we'd already qualified for the knock-out stages. Though I think it was agreed that Moores stayed on until the end of that year and they took control for the following year (where we did get to the semi-finals of the European Cup)

      And finishing runners up in 2008-09 is true. Of course it helped that the majority of squad, and even manager, had been assembled before their arrival. Six players played 30 or more League games for us that year, only one was bought under them (Benayoun). In contrast, last year seven players played more than 30 League games for us and more than half, as well as the manager, were brought in by FSG. So there's a slight difference between giving credit to Hicks and Gillett for us finishing second, to FSG.

      I guess if you are to praise FSG for the achievements of our managers and players, in reaching semi-finals, then it's only fair that we add balance: under their "stewardship" we have also finished 6th, 7th and 8th.

      Indeed we have but we've also finished in similar positions under our greatest too. We showed slightly more patience in those days though because the owners stayed in the background, like owners should. FSG are working in a similar fashion, from what I can see.

      But hey... at least they aren't Hicks & Gillette so... good for them.  :gt-happyup:

      No they're not.

      They're not Glazer, Lerner, Kenwright, Peter Johnson, Dave Whelan, Freddie Shepherd, Phil Gartside or David Gould either. Which I'm quite happy about.


      Happy Days theme song full length release
      bad boy bubby
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #14: Jan 20, 2015 07:17:12 pm
      Happy Days?... Brilliant  :lmao:

      Although, to be fair Billy, I wouldn't have had someone, who comes on here every season to tell us all we should expect to win the league would have been happy with anything less.

      Much less start his own FSG thread [presumably so that your opinion doesn't get lost in the bigger thread] just to blow smoke up the hole of these carpetbaggers.

      I'm sure you didn't start your new thread in the naive belief that every one would join in with the arse-kissing so, having given my tuppence worth (and realising that we aren't going to agree) I bid you farewell and good luck.

      Thanks to FSG  :lmao: I have a semi-final to watch. ;D
      AmericanPlant
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #15: Jan 21, 2015 08:55:59 am
      I don't know one single person who thinks that be they ours or opposition fans. All the positives that DLS points out in his OP are valid and rather than comment on them you choose to just chuck in your negatives.

      You're in a minority of one in my world.

      Well either you work for the owners or know nothing about LFC. Either way, you are an embarrassment to the club.
      We had a better team under the previous vermin.

      The last lot sold 2 stars, 3 if you count Arbeloa.
      The current scum, have sold EVERYONE ELSE.

      Both dodged new stadium plans. Both are only there for cash. Both hate football. Both show contempt for LFC values. Fenway charge even more obscene prices. Fenway are the ones who slash wages into oblivion. G&H BOUGHT stars too eg Masch, Torres etc. Fenway only sell them. Fenway keep most of the debt further up the chain... big deal. Both are pathological liars "we are fervent fans" and "we can compete with anyone" - from the Crooks 2.0. Fenway's pr double speak ie smarm is particular incredible. The current scum don't even show us the courtesy of turning up for a match more than ONCE in 14 months. Both have quietly punted us round for a sale, from very early on.
      Both installed B-list compliant gimps as managers. Atleast Scum v1 had Rafa there a reasonable while.

      The season last yr was simply by hanging onto Luis's coat tails. We're no nearer to success now than 4 yrs ago. I could continue, but the truth is the truth. And any real Red can see it. Time this cancer 2.0 was gone.

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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #16: Jan 21, 2015 09:46:33 am
      Well either you work for the owners or know nothing about LFC. Either way, you are an embarrassment to the club.
      We had a better team under the previous vermin.

      The last lot sold 2 stars, 3 if you count Arbeloa.
      The current scum, have sold EVERYONE ELSE.

      Both dodged new stadium plans. Both are only there for cash. Both hate football. Both show contempt for LFC values. Fenway charge even more obscene prices. Fenway are the ones who slash wages into oblivion. G&H BOUGHT stars too eg Masch, Torres etc. Fenway only sell them. Fenway keep most of the debt further up the chain... big deal. Both are pathological liars "we are fervent fans" and "we can compete with anyone" - from the Crooks 2.0. Fenway's pr double speak ie smarm is particular incredible. The current scum don't even show us the courtesy of turning up for a match more than ONCE in 14 months. Both have quietly punted us round for a sale, from very early on.
      Both installed B-list compliant gimps as managers. Atleast Scum v1 had Rafa there a reasonable while.

      The season last yr was simply by hanging onto Luis's coat tails. We're no nearer to success now than 4 yrs ago. I could continue, but the truth is the truth. And any real Red can see it. Time this cancer 2.0 was gone.

      Weird because we didn't look "a laughing stock" playing against Chelsea who are one of the top teams in Europe right now.

      Anyway, what are you moaning about? I thought you would be happy if they were "punting us around for a sale". Then your dream of being owned by someone living in a Walton terrace who is a lifelong fan of the club doesn't have an ego and is able to outspend the petrodollar clubs can finally come true.

      « Last Edit: Jan 21, 2015 11:10:06 am by Hollywood Balls »
      dunlop liddell shankly
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #17: Jan 21, 2015 03:44:33 pm
      Happy Days?... Brilliant  :lmao:

      Although, to be fair Billy, I wouldn't have had someone, who comes on here every season to tell us all we should expect to win the league would have been happy with anything less.

      Much less start his own FSG thread [presumably so that your opinion doesn't get lost in the bigger thread] just to blow smoke up the hole of these carpetbaggers.

      I'm sure you didn't start your new thread in the naive belief that every one would join in with the arse-kissing so, having given my tuppence worth (and realising that we aren't going to agree) I bid you farewell and good luck.

      Thanks to FSG  :lmao: I have a semi-final to watch. ;D

      I haven't been happy with us not winning the League, and the thread wasn't to suggest I was. It was more to show similarities between the current owners and those that have gone before it.

      Selling our star players is nothing new, as Keegan, Souness and Rush can all testify to.

      But as you well know, anybody who doesn't agree with my point of view is clearly wrong. So if you don't wish to "blow smoke up the hole of these carpetbaggers" then you too are wrong.

      (by the way before some pr**k gets a paddy on, that last paragraph was taking the piss)
      stuey
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #18: Jan 21, 2015 04:06:03 pm
      FSG, NESV, JWH & Co = H&G eventually.
      TheRedMosquito
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #19: Jan 21, 2015 04:40:33 pm
      The last lot sold 2 stars, 3 if you count Arbeloa.
      The current scum, have sold EVERYONE ELSE.

      Arbeloa a star? Hardly. Unless you do count Arbeloa a star, in which case you'd have to add Bellamy, Garcia, Sissoko, Riise and Crouch as "stars" sold under H&G.



      Yet Anfield is being renovated. Funny that.


      What "contempt for LFC values"? What does that even mean? Examples?

      G&H BOUGHT stars too eg Masch, Torres etc. Fenway only sell them.

      When we bought that big star Mascherano, he was sitting on the bench at West Ham unable to get a game. Yeah, HUGE motherfucking star he was then. Torres was no bigger a star than Suarez at Ajax. All three of them became stars here.

      The current scum don't even show us the courtesy of turning up for a match more than ONCE in 14 months.

      Honestly, who gives a sh*t? I didn't see you spraining your wrist in aggressive, angry masturbation that they weren't around when we finished second. They don't need to ever go to a match as far as I'm concerned. Just make the proper funds available and be done with it.

      Both have quietly punted us round for a sale, from very early on.

      Pics or it didn't happen, as they say on the Internet. Cite a source.

      Both installed B-list compliant gimps as managers. Atleast Scum v1 had Rafa there a reasonable while.

      That "B-list compliant gimp" achieved a record-setting season last year and got us within touching distance of a title with Jon friggin Flanagan at LB (no disrespect to Flanno). The best football we've seen in a very long time. Better than Dalglish's second stint. Better than Hodgson. Better than Rafa. Better than Houlier. Better than Souness.

      The season last yr was simply by hanging onto Luis's coat tails.

      Bullshit. And this season has proven as such. Suarez is world class, but once again the striker with virtually the best strike-rate in Liverpool history gets fu**ed off and disrespected. Who have we missed more this season, Suarez or Sturridge? Keep in mind Suarez would still have been suspended for 4 months at the start.

      Either way, you are an embarrassment to the club.

      That's rich.
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #20: Jan 21, 2015 05:01:57 pm
      I get the feeling that AmericanPlant is less a fan of LFC and more a fan of hating FSG...
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #21: Jan 21, 2015 06:06:01 pm
      I get the feeling that AmericanPlant is less a fan of LFC and more a fan of hating FSG...

      No mate, he is a complete bell end. Fact !  :lmao:
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      Re: From Houlding To Henry
      Reply #22: Jan 21, 2015 06:09:04 pm
      Well either you work for the owners or know nothing about LFC. Either way, you are an embarrassment to the club.

      Time this cancer 2.0 was gone.



      Wow, you really are a grade a c**t lad.

      Two reasons I'm done with you right there. Hopefully the second one is your resignation from the forum, F**k all the other bile you spout, solely for using that reference.

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