Is the burden too heavy for this team to carry?

I ask this because this team has similarity,s with another of my teams the welsh rugby team ,
when wales were good in the 70,s and had some of the best players ever to play the game everything was rosy ,
fast forward a couple of years retirements and injury,s and it all went pear shaped ,sure there was the odd good season and good games but never consistency over a long period,the same for them always being compared to the great teams of yester year it took over twenty years to turn it around till the ghosts dissapeared.

Come back to liverpool and sure there has been good seasons since we last won the league ,but every year the expectation grows and the pressure mounts , going back four months barring Alonso and with the league being out of our own hands relying on others to slip up, we were playing great football and beating the big guns .

This team hasn,t suddenly become a bad team overnight but with the new season came new expectations and a bigger mill stone around their necks ,all of a sudden its 19 years and counting ,some players getting older and realising time might be running out and suddenly the burden gets a little heavier.

Personally i still think we can win it,and this mini break might do us a favour .

A good post, Andy.

I don't know much about the history of Welsh rugby (shock, horror), but the comparison seems a fair one. We have essentially the same team as last season, with only two major changes in Arbeloa and Alonso. Despite what some people think, I don't believe Lucas is responsible for our poor form, and the difference between Arbeloa and Johnson is not significant enough to make a difference either.

We put up a hell of a challenge last season, the best for a good while, and I don't doubt that the players have felt the pressure from that. It must be a factor, in the back of their minds, at least some of the players who have been around a few years, and certainly local lads Carragher and Gerrard.

However, I do think we're also suffering from what I believe was a poor pre-season, our preparation was a constantly changing side jet-setting all over the world. Good for the bank, poor for getting into a rhythm IMO.

I think the side will settle in the coming weeks. We have too many experienced players not to break out of this indifferent form, and I'm sure we'll soon be climbing back up the table. What might be make or break for our season, however, is the amount of time it takes us to change up a gear and really start playing the way we do best.

Fair post Andy

But Im sorry I have to say that if the reason we aren't winning titles is because the players cant handle the expectation then we are signing the wrong players for this club. Any one who pulls on that shirt should be of a certain standard and that standard should be able to cope with pressure and expectancy.

 

If they can't handle the pressure, they shouldn't be on the pitch. This is supposed to be a league winning team, not some experimental mishap.

I think I've said in the past on here, if not certainly to me mates.

But last year we had our average to good players having great seasons. Kuyt, Aurelio, Riera, Benayoun at some point all excelled last season and looked like the world stars they aren't. This year out of the four only Yossi has kept up some of that form, though Aurelio can use injury for his excuse. Take that into account that Gerrard and Carra (the heart and soul of this side) have really struggled to find their top form.

I don't think being constantly compared to the legends of yesteryear helps, I've done it meself many times with certain players. And I don't think constantly being reminded how long it's been since we won the league is too helpful either. But for me it's not the burden being too heavy, it's just our players aren't good enough on a regular basis. We can shine one week and then look like we've never played together the following week. Unfortunately this has been the case for us for a very long time.

See where your coming from andy.

The reason i feel is that the big men are just not bothered. Too much talking the talk and not walking the walk. Gerrard has not stopped yapping about how he wants the EPL trophy etc. yet he has been pretty dire this season except for a few glimpses of brilliance. Torres, too. He always says the right things and then spends 77 out of the 90 minutes in the ref's face or on the floor. Masch...well he's been sh*t all season except for last night.

I don't know the source of their annoyance but it is having a detrimental impact on their game. Torres' new baby must only be a positive for him - he should be a happy man but he isn't. Gerrard seems to be acting as if he is the greatest thing since the Beatles and just strolling around the field wanting someone else to do the work. Mascherano has looked like a whining baby ever since the Barca episode. The littlest thing is sending him up the wall and while last season he did the same thing, this season he is just clinging to that little thing and not moving on.

I think the quicker the 3 get over their agenda's the better and more damaging we will be. If they fire up, it will just breathe confidence in the side.

Carra and Martin have just lacked confidence. As has our whole defence when actually defending. Much has been made of it in the media and this is further dampening their spirits.

That's my other issue - the media. they are quick to pounce on the fact we have lost 3, yes 1 more than last season in the league already. First they shoot us down for the draws but when we go through without drawing yet we get hurled to the gutter. It really grinds my gears (one for you Family Guy lovers )

The pressure is there but being at a top side has pressure that comes hand in hand with your pay packet. Deal with it.

I think I've said in the past on here, if not certainly to me mates.

But last year we had our average to good players having great seasons. Kuyt, Aurelio, Riera, Benayoun at some point all excelled last season and looked like the world stars they aren't. This year out of the four only Yossi has kept up some of that form, though Aurelio can use injury for his excuse. Take that into account that Gerrard and Carra (the heart and soul of this side) have really struggled to find their top form.

I don't think being constantly compared to the legends of yesteryear helps, I've done it meself many times with certain players. And I don't think constantly being reminded how long it's been since we won the league is too helpful either. But for me it's not the burden being too heavy, it's just our players aren't good enough on a regular basis. We can shine one week and then look like we've never played together the following week. Unfortunately this has been the case for us for a very long time.

*DISCLAIMER: The following comments are not knee-jerk based on one game but based on watching Rafa's teams for 5 years*

Your last two sentences are spot on and the key to the whole problem. And why do you think it is that way?

In my opinion it is because Rafa is constantly changing the tactics and the role of individual players. Sometimes they fully understand what is expected and they are fully capable of complying but on other occasions I just get the impression that they go out on the pitch either confused or just not happy with what they are being asked to do.

How else can you explain why genuinely world-class players like Gerrard and Torres can look so ill at ease with themselves at times?

I like Rafa but his concept of man-management leaves a lot to be desired IMO.

Shankly had the exact opposite approach...he moulded the team to suit the talents of the players whereas Rafa is constantly trying to mould the players to fit his tactics.

When it works it is fine but when it doesn't it looks horrible.

Early days yet lads, think Stevie G should be put back in the middle his best position in my eyes, he the only one capable of playing the ball to open teams up, try playing Yossi just off Nando but hey, if it was that easy I'd be coaching the Reds and Rafa would do my bricklaying for me.

I take on board all that has been said and posted here and lots of you are more knowledgeable about Liverpool than me ,having said that ,could it be that we are playing the same level as last year (  where we arguably reached our peak ) but the other teams have improved and are now at their peak? i think any sportsman can only go so far at that is his personal best ,like an athlete running his best ever time ,will he ever do it again ? probably not ,we are in dire need of our academy to back us up with a group of lads who are hungry and gel together well,until such times we rely on the usual 'core members ' of the club to do the business ....just my opinion

I take on board all that has been said and posted here and lots of you are more knowledgeable about Liverpool than me ,having said that ,could it be that we are playing the same level as last year (  where we arguably reached our peak ) but the other teams have improved and are now at their peak? I think any sportsman can only go so far at that is his personal best ,like an athlete running his best ever time ,will he ever do it again ? probably not ,we are in dire need of our academy to back us up with a group of lads who are hungry and gel together well,until such times we rely on the usual 'core members ' of the club to do the business ....just my opinion

No. At the end of last year we were playing phenominal. Beating united 1-4, destroying Real madrid 5-0 and getting the double over chelsea, all the while playing some brilliant football at times, we are nowhere near what we were last year.

Not to mention we destroyed those cheeky top 4 wannabe buggers aston Villa 5-1.

I wouldn't say its too hard to carry, I just don't think were good enough at the moment, In Alonso we lost arguably the best passer of a football in the premier league and in Arebloa we lost a solid consistent right back, weve replaced Alonso with a player who has not played and I don't care what any one is smoking Lucas can not be uttered in the same breath as Alonso as there is a massive gulf in class between them. Arbleloa can only be described as a solid consistent defender, where he has been replaced with a more maurading attacking full back who at times leaves us exposed at the back.

Our Back 4 has looked like strangers at times Carra is not on top of his game and nor has Skrtel been until against Chelsea where he gave his performance of the season, Johnson is still pretty new to the set up and is probably still not fully intergrated into the system that Rafa employs and his decision making at times has been questionable like when to attack and when to defend. Insua had a poor start to the season and improved as it went on then against Chelsea looked like he was taking backwards steps again.

Our Midfield for me when Lucas and Masch have been paired is devoid of any creativity as Kuyt and Riera have not exactly set the stage alight this season with any of their performances, To be honest the best midfield pairing I have seen so far this season is Stevie and Lucas with Benayoun playing of Torres as we looked threatening. The player who has outshone every one this season IMO is Benayoun.

Gerrard and Torres have been pretty much Isolated in some games due to lack of creativity and service from the midfield so both have put in some pretty lethargic performances. So I wouldn't say it's been too much of a burden we just have not seen a full strength line up firing on all cylinders yet as there are too many players having a bad game/loss of form in the same game and we simply have not been good enough in some games.

Bar Benayoun, Reina and Lucas no one has been playing well.

It's not a question of whether we can carry the burden or not, it's simply the fact that the vast majority of our players simply aren't performing and the longer that goes on the more defeats we'll suffer.

To my mind despite the below average form of some of our key players, Pepe Reina has still been in top form.

Despite a few defensive lapses i'd say Glen Johnson has performed admirably this season so far.

 It really grinds my gears (one for you Family Guy lovers )

I wonder what Stewie would say.....

I just feel like we haven't really got out of first gear yet this season. 

There's was bound to be a  huge amount of pressure on Liverpool this season, after our outstanding performance in the Premiership last season, everyone expected Liverpool to start this season where we left off last season.

Of course this hasn't happened, we've already lost more games this season than we did in the whole of last season.....but so what? It was the draws that killed off our Premiership aspirations last season not our losses.

I reckon we can still afford to lose 2/3 more games and still be in with a decent chance of getting our hands on the trophy, after all there is still a very long way to go and the other top teams are also dropping points.

Keep the faith.

The burden of expectation is not to much to carry, it never has been for Liverpool. Because there is always expectation. The problem is to much burden on certain players at times. Torres is expected to perform a miracle every match, and he does a good job of doing it almost every match, but he is goin to have bad games. Everyone is.
The main problem though is the team just hasn't clicked. Simple. So many are looking for in depth analysis of why Liverpool are sh*te at the moment, zonal marking, Carra is past it, aliens have taken over there bodies, Lucas, bla bla bla bla. Fact is the team hasn't clicked into the fluid motion we saw from them most of last year. Couple with some players underperforming, mostly due to the dysfunctional play of the team, then it has made for a real disjointed effort for the most part. They just need to get back to basics. Easier said than done, but its whats needed.
Hell, we are only 6 points off though. I know that aint good, but if you look at the games against Bolton and the hammers where both times we escaped, it could have been alot worse. With the team not at its best by a long shot, I'm thankful for where we are. That said, dissapointed we haven't shown our full potential. But it will come.