Rafa Snubs Juve

Yes, I am a sceptic, and I shall tell you why.

Firstly, look at the trail of events here and whats panned out.

1. rafa was moaning plenty about lack of funds to buy players

2. rumours that owners are preparing to get rid of him

3. admission from the owners they had klinsman lined up for the job

4. backlash from liverpool fans, criticising owners and backing rafa

5. suddenly, rafa gets a five year 20 million sweetheart deal, making him the highest paid manager in england.

6. mysteriously, even though rafa has no apparent cash to splash he stays relatively quiet about the owners.

Ive been around a long while and long enough to see whats going on here. The yanks are paying this guy more money than the likes of red nose gets paid, and he has won 11 titles and god knows what else. Just think about how ridiculous that is on its own. You see the philosophy of big business is that you pay the top dog plenty, then you have him eating out of your dish like a lap dog. You pay him to screw everyone else, in this case it is you and me, the fans.

Some of you assume that you have to spend big to win the trophies, but just remember, only one team wins the league. Only one team wins the champions league.  We won the champions league without spending big in 2005. The point is if you get a manager who is good enough to keep you in europe, and finish high in the league, without spending big, then you are probably just as well off as a club who spend 200 million and win just one trophy. They might not even win any! 

In my company they do exactly the same thing, pay the ceo a million in bonus's to cut the jobs down in every department, and force you to work harder than ever. They save more than the million they give him, by getting him to be the front man and take the heat by screwing 4,000 other poor bas**rds. He doesnt mind because he is getting paid far more than hes worth for the job. 

You talk about Rafa loving the club, and how thank god he is so loyal to us.  Rafa is playing the game, if you paid me 20 million I would say I love whoever you want me to love. 20 million to mime a few words of a song, and make a few press conferences confirming how I love the club.
"I love the f***in 20 million"  thats what hes loving.

Finally, look at the big clubs

chelsea.........have an owner who has dug into his own pocket to win a few trophies. he hasnt made any profit, he is just a gay fellow who had a few billion and was prepared to pay out a few hundred million to say he had won something. Lucky them because they have a sugar daddy who doesnt mind not making a profit if his dick looks bigger.

man utd.....despite winning everything consistently for the past 17 years they are in record debt. Solid proof that winning trophies does not pay off the debt for all those players bought. Luckily for them they bought a player for 12 million and sold him for 80 million. How many times are you gonna get that lucky?

man city............another billionaire who is happy to lose a few hundred million to win something. Probably a short guy with short mans disease. Once he wins a trophy and feels like his dick has grown an inch he will probably f**k off and leave them in debt. These arseholes get driven around western countries by chauffers signalling with a point of the finger which mansions they are buying. Thats where they make their money, not out of football clubs.  Its a big ego trip.

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Wow you really are f**king clueless. From points 3 and 4 to 5 there is only the small matter of about two and a half years. Also point 6 - he was hardly quiet from Athens onwards when he got onto what the sneaky fuckers were up to. Let's face it, if it wasn't for Rafa and that press conference before the Newcastle game when he wore a trackie and club coat, the fans wouldn't have been non the wiser at what them pair of cu*ts were doing to our club.

You mention big clubs - since when the f**k have Man City been a big club - they might have billions, but have won f**k all for the past 30 years, let them win a few trophies first FFS!! Been listening to Sky Sports a bit too much me thinks

On the point of Man U, unlike us they have every cash generating scheme going, a ground that can hold 75,000 because they put it all in place in the 90s - unlike us - the only reason they are in debt is because of  a gobs***e yank owner.

Then you have the f**king nerve to compare Rafa to Ferguson, who you can bet earns more than Rafa, has spent a lot longer at Man U, probably why he has won more, I see you don't slag Souness or Evans for doing f**k-all for Liverpool's continuing agonising wait for number 19.

In short I think you're not a true red - and that's from a season ticket of 20 years and been going the game since I was 5 years old. In fact amongst all that bullshit I'm surprised you didn't mention the words waiter, Spanish and fat.

In fact I'd say you weren't sceptic, more of a septic tank!

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You started off with an insult, and ended your rant with another one. You should be mindful of the fact that this forum is a place for fans to come and express opinions without being subjected to personal attacks from other forum members. This shows a complete lack of maturity and says much about your true character.
Secondly, your post fails to provide any material even fit for debate. In late 2007 Rafa publicly criticised the owners transfer policy, and that was his right, as he had become frustrated at their reluctance to provide him with funds to buy the players he needed.
In january 2008 the admission came that the owners had spoken to Klinsman about replacing Rafa, if he walked.

“we attempted to negotiate an option as an insurance policy……if rafa left for real madrid or other clubs rumoured”….Hicks told the Liverpool Echo

Hicks was alluding to the criticism of Hicks and Gillett by Benitez over their transfer policy which angered the American duo and put the Spaniard’s position in jeopardy.

Then in march 2009

Liverpool manager Rafael Benitez has finally ended speculation over his future, signing a four-year contract extension worth around £20 million that will keep him at Anfield until 2014.

After months of tortured negotiations that have seen the contract redrafted at least eight times, Benitez and the American co-owners, Tom Hicks and George Gillett, finally agreed terms yesterday afternoon.
Benitez has repeatedly used the contract negotiations to enhance his position at Anfield. He has often raised the stakes, twice publicly rejecting contract offers on the eve of crucial league matches since January.
He has also quibbled over detail, demanding that the contract be paid in euros, then sterling, and seeking a clause that allows him to leave if the club is sold and he does not like the new owners.

Please explain to me how you arrive at the idea that there was two and a half years between the owners admitting they had spoken to Klinsman as an insurance policy, (jan 2008)  and Rafa signing the contract.  (march 2009)  (which by the way had to be redrafted no less than 8 times)

This timeline completely supports my theory, that to stop Rafa from openly talking about lack of funds for new players the owners offered him a massive monetary deal with all sorts of added clauses to ensure his long term security. The deal was that we will pay you more than the club can afford, we will give you a clause to walk if we sell, we will give you whatever you want, but we wont give you money to buy players. You, in return will not speak publicly and berate us over the lack of transfer funds.

Your comments about Man Utd only support the view that I expressed.
The fact that even though they make an additional 50 million per year from having a 76,000 seater stadium…. than what we make, and even though they have in your words ‘every cash generating scheme going’   and even though they have won the league 11 times in 18 yrs, plus numerous other titles, they are still struggling with debt.
 
Why?  Because no matter how much success you have on the field, spending ridiculous amounts on player purchases and wages are gonna send you broke in the end. Man Utd have in truth got temporarily out of jail with the 80 million from the Ronaldo sale, and look how reluctant the owners are to spend it.

In conclusion, there are only two ways a club can be successful, both on the pitch and finacially in this day and age of ridiculous player costs.

1.   Get a sugar daddy, like Chelsea or man City who are prepared to lose their own money in exchange for an ego trip

or

2.   Find a manager who is capable of recruiting and developing players in a manner that builds on field success without huge spending.

Arsenal are probably the closest to achieving this, because they do have a manager who is capable of spotting decent talent, and converting it into an attractive style of football. He tends to have the knack of selling players for a good profit, thus keeping the club financially viable. His lack of silverware in recent years frustrates the Arsenal faithful, although on a shoe string budget he has kept them in Europe.

Man Utd..... A positive for them is the service they get from players such as Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Brown, Evans, Fletcher and O'Shea, players who have initially cost them nothing to purchase. We only have Carragher and Gerrard who fit into this category. Ferguson does have the ability to develop youngsters.  A 68 million profit from the sale of Ronaldo also helps.

Everton..... Moyes has done a terrific job without any money, the year he finished 4th was an amazing achievement, and he seems to have the knack of revitalising the team every year.

Aston Villa.....  Again, a good manager who has produced a team who play a good brand of football, without the cash to splash.

Fulham......probably the most remarkable achievement, absolutely no money and a manager who has been able to get a poor bunch of players playing some good football.

Liverpool.........  A manager who is not capable of taking this club any further.

 Consistently bad tactics, overly defensive, mindboggling substitutions that have cost us points time and time again.

 A poor record in the transfer market, apart from a few gems such as Torres, Mascherano, and Alonso, this has been outweighed by all his bad buys.

Man management skills non existant, losing Alonso was the final straw for me, and just quietly I think we have been close to losing Mascherano a couple of times, no thanks to Benitez.

I dont believe rafa has the attributes to qualify for category 2, and thats why I will be glad when he is gone.

i wont resort to insults as you have done Stuey, just facts and opinions, of which you seem completely incapable of producing.

IRWD

Too long;didnt read.

But I can safely say that Rafa is the man. Thats something anyone can read!

Wasn't too long to read, just to much bullshit.

Look, we know this is a forum open to opinion. But when you say sh*te that is clearly un-researched (despite you thinking you are so smart in what you have said)

You even said how Moyes has done a brilliant job with no money. They finish around 5th to 7th-8th most years without money, besides getting lucky with 4th that one year. We are in the exact same position of having no money, so how can you turn around and blame Rafa if we finish 5th or so? Because that would be brilliant for Everton with no money, but why a sign of Rafa's failings without money? Jaysus, get a grip.

Your post that says the "clear" reason Rafa was signed to a big deal is a bunch of conspiracy theory crap as well.

And Rafa is not mysteriously quiet about the owners. He said recently he wants to see more funds for player sales i believe, at the time he was talking about the Juventus offer. He is just being diplomatic about it, but i am damn sure he is telling them what he needs.

Oh and another thing. The reason there is a tiny little scroll box for quotes is so that it keeps post size to a minimum! Don't F***ing quote your sh*t, and then HR's post, and then take them out of quote boxes and tripling the size of your post!! Looks like sh*t and takes up way to much room

Wasn't too long to read, just to much bullshit.

Look, we know this is a forum open to opinion. But when you say sh*te that is clearly un-researched (despite you thinking you are so smart in what you have said)

You even said how Moyes has done a brilliant job with no money. They finish around 5th to 7th-8th most years without money, besides getting lucky with 4th that one year. We are in the exact same position of having no money, so how can you turn around and blame Rafa if we finish 5th or so? Because that would be brilliant for Everton with no money, but why a sign of Rafa's failings without money? Jaysus, get a grip.

Your post that says the "clear" reason Rafa was signed to a big deal is a bunch of conspiracy theory crap as well.

And Rafa is not mysteriously quiet about the owners. He said recently he wants to see more funds for player sales I believe, at the time he was talking about the Juventus offer. He is just being diplomatic about it, but I am damn sure he is telling them what he needs.

Oh and another thing. The reason there is a tiny little scroll box for quotes is so that it keeps post size to a minimum! Don't f**king quote your sh*t, and then HR's post, and then take them out of quote boxes and tripling the size of your post!! Looks like sh*t and takes up way to much room

sorry about my lack of expertise with the quotes........i assume you are in charge of the forum, although you should have a bit more courtesy if you are the policeman of post etiquette.

Rafa has not spent money this season, as I have pointed out that was part of his contract negotiation. Rafa has had decent funds over the past 4 years, something "The Chosen One" has never had. The problem is he has a poor record in the transfer market, which has prevented him from building a great team.

sorry about my lack of expertise with the quotes........i assume you are in charge of the forum, although you should have a bit more courtesy if you are the policeman of post etiquette.

Rafa has not spent money this season, as I have pointed out that was part of his contract negotiation. Rafa has had decent funds over the past 4 years, something "The Chosen One" has never had. The problem is he has a poor record in the transfer market, which has prevented him from building a great team.

Don't be bringing that bog-eyed tw*t into it!

2005 was a great achievement for the blueshite finishing fourth, remind me again who wiped that smug smile off their bitter F***ing faces?

sorry about my lack of expertise with the quotes........I assume you are in charge of the forum, although you should have a bit more courtesy if you are the policeman of post etiquette.

Rafa has not spent money this season, as I have pointed out that was part of his contract negotiation. Rafa has had decent funds over the past 4 years, something "The Chosen One" has never had. The problem is he has a poor record in the transfer market, which has prevented him from building a great team.

No im not in charge, i just don't like reading and then realizing its all sh*t id seen before!

And bullshit it was part of his contract negotiation!! Where did you pull that from? No-ones arse is that deep to be pulling crap like that! And he has had funds, but they have rarely if ever been competitive with any other club vying for top spot. When Malouda went to Chelsea he was meant to be coming to us until Chelsea made an offer we could not match. I doubt it was the first time or last it happened either. And then the last two years he hasn't really had anything!

All managers are hit and miss in the transfer market. With Rafa's scratching for depth as well as quality, he has found some stinkers BUT also some gems as well. I doubt Xabi Alonso would be a 30m Real Madrid signing without us!

And again, if Everton are so great without money, then why are you still expecting anything much better for us?

Rafa is doing as gooder a job as anyone would do after 5 years under these circumstances, and if he does indeed snub juve, i will bow down to the man as one of the hardest men ive ever seen.

The point I am trying to make is that in march 2009 rafa signed a contract worth 20 million that had been redrafted no less than 8 times.



We all assumed that Rafa would have a decent transfer kitty and assumed that the 16 million for the sale of Keane would be available, plus at least 20 million as a minimum budget.

When Alonso was sold for 30 odd million it was fair to assume that Rafa would then have approx 70 million to spend as a minimum.

This money never ever materialised.

Now try to understand this, because it is a simple concept.

Rafa had been screaming from the rooftops about lack of transfer money prior to signing a contract worth 20 million.

After that he gets absolutely no money whatsoever, no Keane money, and no transfer kitty. All he has is the Alonso money, thats it.

If transfer money had been more important to him than the 20 million salary........he would have taken less money himself and insisted he had transfer money in the contract negotiations.   Quite obviously he did not.

Rafas attitude during that transfer window was very coy, at times he stated he had money, when really he knew all along he was only going to be given whatever funds he could muster from the sale of players.  (Alonso)   

The natural conclusion is not hard to draw, the extra money in the contract was included as hush money. They simply wanted him to stop screaming off the rooftops. He took the huge money in exchange for an agreement that he could build the squad up without additional transfer money.

Every single business works this way......   Arsenwenger has had the fans sniping him for years about not spending money and replacing all the outgoing big  name players.     
These guys will be receiving huge personal financial payments from the owners of the clubs to keep costs down and still try to achieve a level of onfield success. 

An owner would happily say to a manager, if you can achieve something good with what you have already, heres another 5 million, instead of spending another 30 million on players. 

When such a conversation takes place you can expect two things

1. A huge increase in the managers personal financial position

2. A reluctance from the manager to hurl insults at his owner

The point I am trying to make is that in march 2009 rafa signed a contract worth 20 million that had been redrafted no less than 8 times.

Any actual proof on this statement?

That is a shitty theory mate.

Rafa has been crucified by the English media from day one, no other English manager is put under scrutiny and the miscroscope as Rafa is.

To state that all the sh*t he puts up with from all corners is justified by his pay packet is a F***ing insult.

That is a shitty theory mate.

Rafa has been crucified by the English media from day one, no other English manager is put under scrutiny and the miscroscope as Rafa is.

To state that all the sh*t he puts up with from all corners is justified by his pay packet is a f**king insult.

Are you saying you have not heard of the corporate strategy of paying someone big bucks and charging him with the job of cutting costs.?

Effectively you are giving him a bigger slice of the cake to     take "all the sh*t he puts up with from all corners"


Look mate, when a guy retires on his yacht in the Carribean do you think he worries about all the sh*t the people gave him?   
 

The point I am trying to make is that in march 2009 rafa signed a contract worth 20 million that had been redrafted no less than 8 times.



We all assumed that Rafa would have a decent transfer kitty and assumed that the 16 million for the sale of Keane would be available, plus at least 20 million as a minimum budget.

When Alonso was sold for 30 odd million it was fair to assume that Rafa would then have approx 70 million to spend as a minimum.

This money never ever materialised.

Now try to understand this, because it is a simple concept.

Rafa had been screaming from the rooftops about lack of transfer money prior to signing a contract worth 20 million.

After that he gets absolutely no money whatsoever, no Keane money, and no transfer kitty. All he has is the Alonso money, thats it.

If transfer money had been more important to him than the 20 million salary........he would have taken less money himself and insisted he had transfer money in the contract negotiations.   Quite obviously he did not.

Rafas attitude during that transfer window was very coy, at times he stated he had money, when really he knew all along he was only going to be given whatever funds he could muster from the sale of players.  (Alonso)   

The natural conclusion is not hard to draw, the extra money in the contract was included as hush money. They simply wanted him to stop screaming off the rooftops. He took the huge money in exchange for an agreement that he could build the squad up without additional transfer money.

Every single business works this way......   Arsenwenger has had the fans sniping him for years about not spending money and replacing all the outgoing big  name players.     
These guys will be receiving huge personal financial payments from the owners of the clubs to keep costs down and still try to achieve a level of onfield success. 

An owner would happily say to a manager, if you can achieve something good with what you have already, heres another 5 million, instead of spending another 30 million on players. 

When such a conversation takes place you can expect two things

1. A huge increase in the managers personal financial position

2. A reluctance from the manager to hurl insults at his owner

Never read such sceptical crap in my life.

Just because he accepts a certain wage does not mean it will affect his transfer budget. There are different budgets, and what affects the administerial wage budget does not affect the transfer budget he has.

And if you have problems with him in the transfer market: http://www.anfield-online.co.uk/opinion/2009/rafa-easing-lucas-pressure/

The point I am trying to make is that in march 2009 rafa signed a contract worth 20 million that had been redrafted no less than 8 times.



We all assumed that Rafa would have a decent transfer kitty and assumed that the 16 million for the sale of Keane would be available, plus at least 20 million as a minimum budget.

When Alonso was sold for 30 odd million it was fair to assume that Rafa would then have approx 70 million to spend as a minimum.

This money never ever materialised.

Now try to understand this, because it is a simple concept.

Rafa had been screaming from the rooftops about lack of transfer money prior to signing a contract worth 20 million.

After that he gets absolutely no money whatsoever, no Keane money, and no transfer kitty. All he has is the Alonso money, thats it.

If transfer money had been more important to him than the 20 million salary........he would have taken less money himself and insisted he had transfer money in the contract negotiations.   Quite obviously he did not.

Rafas attitude during that transfer window was very coy, at times he stated he had money, when really he knew all along he was only going to be given whatever funds he could muster from the sale of players.  (Alonso)   

The natural conclusion is not hard to draw, the extra money in the contract was included as hush money. They simply wanted him to stop screaming off the rooftops. He took the huge money in exchange for an agreement that he could build the squad up without additional transfer money.

Every single business works this way......   Arsenwenger has had the fans sniping him for years about not spending money and replacing all the outgoing big  name players.     
These guys will be receiving huge personal financial payments from the owners of the clubs to keep costs down and still try to achieve a level of onfield success. 

An owner would happily say to a manager, if you can achieve something good with what you have already, heres another 5 million, instead of spending another 30 million on players. 

When such a conversation takes place you can expect two things

1. A huge increase in the managers personal financial position

2. A reluctance from the manager to hurl insults at his owner

*This post has been flagged for containing unfounded bullshit*

Seriously I have read a lot of bullshit about Rafa but this guy's theory takes the cake.

Why dont you contact someone at The S*n,and sell your theory  they would love your sh*t might even earn a few quid.

Are you saying you have not heard of the corporate strategy of paying someone big bucks and charging him with the job of cutting costs.?

Effectively you are giving him a bigger slice of the cake to     take "all the sh*t he puts up with from all corners"


Look mate, when a guy retires on his yacht in the Carribean do you think he worries about all the sh*t the people gave him?    
 

Let me put this in the simplest English I can, I would take Rafa any day over those two tw*ts, the reason he is sticking around, isn't for the money and I know some will snort at this, but he's still here because of US who go and support the team, Rafa has never had a support like the Liverpool fans give the team and him, not even at Valencia.

And I'm still waiting for the proof that Rafa's contract got redrafted eight F***ing times?

And I'm still waiting for the proof that Rafa's contract got redrafted eight F***ing times?

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: For fucks sake. Go on then give me the pen.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/liverpool/5013271/Rafael-Benitez-signs-new-Liverpool-contract-until-2014.html

This page talks about the 8 redrafts of the contract. Once again, if it had to be redrafted 8 times and then straight afterwards there is no money for players,  you must surely assume that this was well known to Rafa in March when he signed the contract.

If he didnt know, and he still signed then he must be the biggest dingbat ever.

But he did, and thats why the contract was so huge in remuneration.

Rafas priorities were the money money money and Parry out of the way.
The trade off, no money for players, and keep nice and polite about it in public.

If that is the case then so what? Whats your point?

Not Rafas problem they wont back him. Not Rafas fault he hasn't got a penny to spend. Whether he new that before he signed the contract doesn't really make a difference IMO.

So Rafa wanted to secure his future? Can you blame him after the yanks went and met with Klinsman on the sly behind everybodys backs? If there has been any greed on Rafas part then so what? Its what modern day football is about and 80% of the people involved in football nowadays are greedy bas**rds.

My guess is Rafa wants to stay at LFC for a long long time and continue to build on what hes started. So hes wanted to get the best possible deal for himself along the way, and what? He deserves it, hes one of the best managers in the game.

The trade off, no money for players, and keep nice and polite about it in public.

Your presumptions are very convenient for your anti Benitez agenda but even to anybody with a neutral perspective they are heresay and wildly innaccurate.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: F**k off.

Owners: So when you sign this you promise not to slag us off in the media.
Rafa: For fucks sake. Go on then give me the pen.

That is quality! 

I thought the redrafts of the contract was about giving Rafa total control of all things football, ie the Reserves, the Academy, transfers, bringing his own backroom team in.  I believe the reasons he insisted on this was because he knew there weren't going to be any big name transfers coming in so needed to work closely with the youth.

Personally I don't believe the money was anything to do with it and in any case, in football terms, £20m over 5yrs isn't mega bucks.  I read the other day Mourhinio is on £14m per year at Inter, that eclipses Rafa's deal.

I thought the redrafts of the contract was about giving Rafa total control of all things football, ie the Reserves, the Academy, transfers, bringing his own backroom team in.  I believe the reasons he insisted on this was because he knew there weren't going to be any big name transfers coming in so needed to work closely with the youth.

Personally I don't believe the money was anything to do with it and in any case, in football terms, £20m over 5yrs isn't mega bucks.  I read the other day Mourhinio is on £14m per year at Inter, that eclipses Rafa's deal.

Excellent point. But come on, you can't let that get in the way of someone's agenda!

Excellent point. But come on, you can't let that get in the way of someone's agenda!

True mate, there's always one!

To suggest that Rafa is some sort of puppet for G&H is nothing short of nonsense.

If theres one thing we have learned about Rafa from his time here its that he is a stubborn b***ard and very much his own man.

He loves this club and everything it stands for including the supporters, thats why IMO he continues to be loyal to us.