Man Utd 2-1 Liverpool: In game and Post Match debrief

Rafa should play Agger on the left against Sunderland. It's too early for Insua to be a regular in the 1st team. And why isn't Aquilani starting? He can come off the bench, but he can't start a game?

Anyone think Johnsons about a stone overweight  , early season he was bombing past full backs and getting to the byline or getting shots in , carrying to much timber and looking sluggish , id have Martin Kelly in as he's much more mobile and a better defender .

The penalty definitely changed the game in their favour.  Should have known with Howard F***ing Webb refereeing, United would get a controversial decision their way!  The start we made to the game though was electric and a shame that a bad decision knocked the wind out of our sails.

After that though, I thought we sat back too much and invited pressure on to ourselves.  Both Johnson and Insua were awful whilst Rooney and Park were finding all sorts of space to cause us problems, and used their width well.  When Park is the best player on the pitch, then you know its not gonna be your day!

No stand out players whatsoever, Torres took his goal well but got pretty much zero service.  Should have done better with that chance near the end.  Gerrard was terrible i thought and got crowded out way too often when he could have had a shot on goal.  The full backs were terrible as well, Maxi and Kuyt pretty non-existant although Kuyt had a decent first 20 minutes.  Lucas I thought was slightly better than Masch, who I thought had a poor game by his standards.

On the whole, I think United wanted it more, shown by Park, Fletcher, Nani and Valencia pressing and pressing our players when they had the ball.  We started off brilliantly but second half we could hardly get the ball and barely threatened. Depressed now.

Bye 4th place, Bye Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Mascherano etc, Bye Rafael Benitez and Bye Liverpool FC!

YES,NO,MAYBE,NO,MAYBE,MAYBE and NEVER!!!!

I think Johnson is the least of our problems in the full back position he can use the excuse he is just back from injury whats Insua excuse.

No more praise for fergie please!

Aquliani should start- he shows his talent in little glimpses- would like to see a whole 90mins- we dont need a 20m bench warmer- let Lucas do that!

As for Johnson- dont forget he has only just come back from injury- give him time to get back to full match-fitness, and dont we all like abit of cake??

And lfcbronx- where is your faith??!

The penalty definitely changed the game in their favour.  Should have known with Howard F***ing Webb refereeing, United would get a controversial decision their way!  The start we made to the game though was electric and a shame that a bad decision knocked the wind out of our sails.

After that though, I thought we sat back too much and invited pressure on to ourselves.  Both Johnson and Insua were awful whilst Rooney and Park were finding all sorts of space to cause us problems, and used their width well.  When Park is the best player on the pitch, then you know its not gonna be your day!

No stand out players whatsoever, Torres took his goal well but got pretty much zero service.  Should have done better with that chance near the end.  Gerrard was terrible i thought and got crowded out way too often when he could have had a shot on goal.  The full backs were terrible as well, Maxi and Kuyt pretty non-existant although Kuyt had a decent first 20 minutes.  Lucas I thought was slightly better than Masch, who I thought had a poor game by his standards.

On the whole, I think United wanted it more, shown by Park, Fletcher, Nani and Valencia pressing and pressing our players when they had the ball.  We started off brilliantly but second half we could hardly get the ball and barely threatened. Depressed now.

Well summed up mate.

I know how you feel. Just got to look to the next game now.

I think Johnson is the least of our problems in the full back position he can use the excuse he is just back from injury whats Insua excuse.

There is no excuse, for either of them. If it was his first game back from injury then possibly but he had a game midweek and played well. No excuse other than they weren't good enough today.

10 PL defeats now. It's not even the fact that we lost to UTD today. They are the kind of games we are never sure of picking up points, but if Villa, City and Spurs win their games in hand, we will be 4 points behind the 6th placed Villa.

Even Everton are threatening to put a further embarrassing slant on our season.

All IF's and BUT's I know, but we will not be qualifying for the CL, I can't see us qualifying for the Europa League.

What I would give for the quality of Young, Lennon, Milner, Wright-Philips, Agbonlohor, Krancjar, Modric, Johnson.... and none of those play for the top 3 !!

We are seriously mediocre and in the space of one season, we have become 'also rans'.

I have absolutely no idea what next season will bring and personally am petrified, what is going to happen in the close season.

And lfcbronx- where is your faith??!

To be fair to Bronx, that was quite a good honest reply to SODMG, MsTorres.

Did you get home in time to see the match then?

why didnt howard webb just wear a man u shirt and be done with it??

Ohh im sorry- i meant that to SODMG!  Typing too fast!
Just dont think an lfc fan should be talking like that!

Ohh im sorry- i meant that to SODMG!  Typing too fast!
Just dont think an lfc fan should be talking like that!

Haha! You're absolutely right though. Totally agree. Especially when there's still some time remaining in the game.

Thought we started great and for the whole first half looked the better team. Really disappointed in Howard webb's performance as usual. No doubt the first offence was outside the box and Mascherano let go before Valencia dived into the box.Also thought Flechter should have been booked for his kick on Kuyt and Neville for trying to take maxi head off. Didnt play well in the second half but its still been a good week with the wins against Pompey and Lille. Need to kick on and win at least 6 out of our last 7 matches. Need to go all out in matches from now on and play Aquilani in midfield instead off Lucas. We can still get 4th just need to go on run of wins

Another chance to gain an advantage in the race for fourth spot, and again, Rafa got it wrong. Yes, it wasn't a penalty, i know, but sometimes things don't go your way, you just have to get on with it. Why the F**k it took him 73 minutes to realise Dirk Kuyt was as effective as a chocolate fireguard is totally beyond comprehension. 75 minutes before we saw Babel? Again, why leave it so late? Maxi had taken a knock to the head, so get him off. Why he took Lucas off with only seven minutes to go? You can't expect a player to make an impact in seven minutes. Rafa waited too long to make changes, Lucas should have gone off after the Ji Sung Park goal, we needed to react to the goal by attacking from the restart, we didn't. Say what you like, the team was set out to stifle and frustrate, well it didn't F***ing work. And if it isn't working you have to react, Rafa didn't.

United are a shadow of the side they were last season, and let's be honest, Carrick, Fletcher and Park hardly strike fear into any side, let alone Liverpool. They have a very average central midfield at best, and we played into their hands by fielding a defensively minded central midfield pairing. Insua is rapidly deteriorating, game by game, and Valencia is hardly a player you want a confidence shot full back lining up against, is it? Glen Johnson was shown up on quite a few occasions too, how i miss the solidity that Arbeloa offered us last season, his failure to get goal side of Park for the second goal just highlighted his lack of defensive positional awareness. The Park goal was scored in the 60th minute, it took Rafa 13-14 minutes to react to going a goal down with 30 minutes of game time remaining. If we'd been probing and testing their defence and passing with fluidity, i'd have understood, but we were not doing that.

And as for Lucas Leiva, can somebody please tell me what is so good about the lad? He is absolutely F***ing sh*te, and i can't bear to see him stifling our passing game any longer. I lost count of the times he couldn't execute a simple side foot pass to a team mate over a distance of ten yards, in the second half i thought Agger was going to knock his head off due to his repeated returns of passes made by the centre back. How frustrating must it be when you play the ball forward to a team mate, to see it constantly passed backwards to you? No wonder Carra and the full backs are hoofing the ball over the central midfield area. Gerrard and Agger both gave him a bollocking during the game for lack of movement off the ball. He has been here long enough now, there is no room for excuses of development. How about we give him 'development' wages until he bucks up and turns into this Brazilian goal scoring attacking midfielder, and earns the right to claim full wages, performance related pay perhaps?

Our wingers, i thought Maxi had a good game in all honesty, but he is never going to be the type of winger who goes past his man and whips dangerous crosses in, is he? Dirk Kuyt? F***ing sh*te, we've seen the best of Dirk last season, what i see now is abysmal. The amount of moves that break down due to his poor first touch and sh*te decision making are inconceivable. A few times today he received the ball whilst running onto it with the chance to run round the outside and get to the byline and cross, and everytime, he took the ball, stopped, then looked around and was either dispossessed or passed it backwards. Are these the players we want to see in a Liverpool shirt. Let's take the sentiment away for a minute, discard his tremendous work ethic and the occasional goal, what's left? An empty shell.

People seem to be slating Gerrard, how much service did he receive today? Absolutely F**k all, as per usual when Lucas 'Crab' Leiva starts a game. The only opportunistic pass he received was the backheel from Torres that set up the goal. If Gerrard has to drop back to get the ball it means that he is receiving no service from the central midfield. If he drops back, then the link with Torres is broken. What's so frustrating is that we probably have the most lethal pairing in world football, yet Rafa refuses to pick the one player that can feed them. As much of a c**t as Andy Gray is, he got it right when he said that Ji Sung Park was the MOTM today, and that is embarassing. A player who is, in all honesty, picked for his merchandising value in South Korea more than his actual footballing ability.

United did not deserve the win today, a draw would have been a fair result, but we did not deserve to win either. We set out defensively against a fairly average United side and paid the price for our negativity. Insua should not have started, he needs a rest, Johnson was defensively exposed again. Kuyt was dire and offered us nothing on the flank, Masch was subdued after the early booking ( which wasn't a foul might i add). Lucas Leiva was absolutely shocking, yet Rafa still hasn't realised this. We had the man to unlock the door sat on the bench, yet Rafa didn't bring him on until the 73rd minute. A manager can set his stall out, and i respect Rafa a great deal, i really do, but he must also be reactive to external influences on the game. That Park goal should have signalled a reaction from Liverpool, sadly for us, it didn't.

We can't do anything to influence the results of the teams around us in the fight for fourth place, but we can do something to influence our own results. Rafa has to change things, it is not too late to hold his hands up and admit he's made mistakes, but his stubborness is one hard nut to crack. Aquilani is the answer to our hopes in the run in, let the shackles off Rafa, while we still have hope. IRWT.

The way some are carrying on you'd think we'd just lost at home to some second division side. We were beaten, away from home, against a side who has won the league the last three years and are probably odds on favourites to win it again this year.

As much as it's hard to admit, United are a good F***ing side. They have quality players all over the park and all can hurt you.

They didn't rip us apart time and time again, we had ourselves a couple of decent openings and matched them for most of the match. The biggest difference was they took their clear cut chances, we unfortunately didn't. Give Torres those chances again and he'll bury them, but today just wasn't his day - and he still managed to score that's how good he is.

It obviously helps as well when you've got the officials giving almost everything to the home side. I don't usually use bad officiating as an excuse but today Webb and his two assistants were a disgrace. How they are England's representatives at the World Cup is beyond me.

But no matter how poor the officials were, it doesn't excuse our attitude towards the game. First half, I think we were just so disappointed with the penalty decision, it just seemed to play on the lad's minds throughout the first 45. Second half though that should of been forgotten but we didn't show enough intent, often enough, to try and score even when we were getting beat.

We seemed content on a point and then a respectable scoreline. That's not the attitude I want to see but since we were only a goal behind, gung ho wasn't necessary until the last 5-10 minutes. Being a goal down, you only need one chance and you're back level if it's taken. Today though we just didn't take the chances when they arrived. It's upsetting but that's what happened.

Reina - didn't have a lot to do, that's how much they created.
Johnson - made Nani look like a decent winger, still has massive defensive frailities.
Carra - was my man of the match, thought he handled Rooney very well today so much so he had to start dropping deep.
Agger - like Carra thought he coped with Rooney very well.
Insua - got skinned quite a few times and is struggling to recapture the form he showed last year.
Kuyt - had a decent first half but didn't come out the dressing room in the second.
Lucas - started brightly then became invisible.
Masch - kept the ball nicely but didn't do anything of any note with it.
Maxi - thought he started well but again tailed off as the game wore on.
Gerrard - didn't grab the game by the scruff of the neck but when he did use the ball, we looked dangerous.
Torres - took his goal brilliantly, missed other chances he'd usually finish also did well to keep his temper after the restart.
Babel - ran around a bit but didn't do much with the ball.
Yossi - had a good chance with the header, difficult chance and didn't really touch the ball otherwise.
Aquilani - didn't get on the ball enough.

All in all we didn't show the intent I'd of liked but not many sides are gonna go to Old Trafford and stifle them as well as we did. They're a good side and better than most at home. With a bit more ambition or maybe even a bit more luck in terms of a nicer bobble on Torres' chances we may be celebrating all three points let alone one.

It just wasn't our day.

Yes it's hard to take any defeat against them but I'm not hurting half as much tonight as I was after the Wigan defeat which was a disgraceful performance. Today wasn't the worst performance we've had this season, it was just one of them where our first priority was not to lose which at Old Trafford is understandable to some extent.

We've had a good run against United of late, they were due a win against us. And in this fixture it looks like scoring first is more of a hindrance than anything.

We will return to winning ways next week against Sunderland and continue our pursuit of fourth. We won't dwell on this result because that's not with this club is about. We're a club about the next game, not the last. So brush ourselves off after this disappointment and ensure we don't suffer any more for the rest of the season.

All us Reds are feeling hurt right now but right now we don't need anybody crying. We need everybody fighting for our cause.

Dissapointing result and 2nd half performance
Had Torress taken his 2 good chances, it would have been a different story.
I see lotsa people complaining about our squad once we lose, however the same squad has beaten Man u this season and have shown glimpses of great attacking play. The problem today was the players and Manager's attitude. The players didnt show enough desire in the second half and Rafa made his changes much too late.

The best players on the day overall were Rooney, Valencia, Park, Carragher & Agger. I thought Torres and Gerrard could have done more, not too mention our midfielders. The ball was doing its familiar backward and sideways movement as usual instead of forward and penetrating. Pepe didnt have much to do and neither did Van de Sar tbh...so we cannot say that we were outplayed. There was the usual Webb nonsense, but other than that our guys could have played alot faster and with alot more purpose. Usually at the end of a game when a team is behind, you see long balls, direct play, pressure on opponent to get a goal...from us i saw nothing of the sort...it was dissapointing to say the least.
4th Place will be near impossible now and if results dont go our way soon, the heads will drop.

As much of a c**t as Andy Gray is, he got it right when he said that Ji Sung Park was the MOTM today, and that is embarassing. A player who is, in all honesty, picked for his merchandising value in South Korea more than his actual footballing ability.

Apart from the goal I don't remember that dog-munching tw*t doing too much else. Utd's MOTM should of been Howard Webb, won the game for Utd with the amount of 50-50 decisions he gave them.

Finishing 4th or not this year is not dependent on beating United at home and losing away.  If we fail to finish top 4 it's the likes of Wigan and Portsmouth away that will be the reason.

Sums it up

Carrick and Fletcher kept the ball extremely well for United today and it was frustrating at times to watch.

I said it during the game though - I didn't understand why we were so insistent on attacking down the right hand side. Evra is a top class full back in my opinion and his pace most of the time doesn't allow you anything.

Should've got at Neville more.

Anyway, we can talk hindsight all we like but to be honest we didn't create enough today and the immense fight we showed in the first 10 minutes was lost soon afterwards.

Can say Torres had a few chances but when you watch them over - they are just half chances really. We can be in danger sometimes of criticizing for no reason just because it is Torres. Brilliant goal though.

Disappointing yes, but not the end of the world.

Great posts by Dunlop & Hardcore-

Would love to see Rafa possibly make some changes at half time- or at least before 65mins- Babel, Aquliani, etc dont have a magic wand- they need some time to have an effect on the game!
Would be nice to see the differences this season if the changes were made earlier.

Anyway as you said- on to the next one- Sunderland next sunday- I will be there, singing, supporting, shouting- lets hope for a decent home win- some goal difference wouldnt go a miss! (if that what 4th place comes down to- i would like to have it!)

Particularly agree with hardcoresolder's analysis.  I get really frustrated when Rafa leaves his subs and I thought Babel didn't put enough effort in.  15 mins isn't enough to make a impact - when we go a goal down we whould have made changes then - players should have moved the ball forward.  Rafa may give that type of instructions to the team.  think Rafa is starting to walk on thin ice with many fans though!!!!

i thought johnson was the biggest pile of sh*te ive seen in a while today. whats happened to his flair? i thought insua was probably the best player today, and he wasnt even that good. carragher played well, maxi did ok and thats about it. aquilani is better going forward than lucas so he should have started. we have mascherano whos as good as about 3 defensive midfielders so unless lucas starts bagging some goals then he is useless