Rafael Benitez Discussion Thread

I'm not going to get into Mourinho as well mate, I'm already breaking a habit of a lifetime by discussing Rafa. FWIW I think Mourinho's reputation of simply buying his way to success isn't borne out by the facts, but that's for another thread and another time.

As for Rafa and his record. It's worth noting (just for context) that the Valencia team he took over had reached the previosu two champions League finals, they were hardly mugs. Equally, from memory again (I'll leave it to others to check) it was the first time BOTH Madrid and Barcelona finished outside the top two for God knows how long (I think Deportivo were second in the first year Valencia won it). That's not to say it wasn't a good achievment to win La Liga with Valencia, of course it was. 

That's what got him the job at Liverpool, that and winning the UEFA Cup with Valencia too as I recall (while someone else was winning the Champions League following a UEFA Cup the previous season). On his arrival at Liverpool he took over a fairly average team in my opinion, but with some good players. He did an excellent job over the next couple of seasons with some shrewd buys and excellent organisation. It was at that time a shoo in for the big four (as they were then) to at least qualify for the Champions League, and such was the dominance of English football that getting out of the group was almost a given too. There were a couple of seasons there where English clubs filled three of the four semi final slots, and we gorged ourselves at the table even more than our contempories. During that period we won a Champions League final we had no right to win, lost one which we ought to have won, and got close a couple of times too. We also won an FA Cup and all looked rosy. The last four seasons though didn't yield any trophies and Rafa left by "mutual consent". I think he did a pretty decent job at Liverpool on the whole.

His efforts since then I've already commented on.

I cannot fathom u bigging up Mourinho's efforts and downplaying Rafas unless.....

I cannot fathom u bigging up Mourinho's efforts and downplaying Rafas unless.....

Mate we'll have to agree to differ. You think Rafa is an absolutely flippin brilliant manager whereas I think he's a very good one. You think Mourinho needs billions to get success, I think he's had success sometimes where he hasn't spent billions.

Things we can agree on though:

Rafa is a nice fella whose heart is in the right place and he loves Liverpool FC. Istanbul was THE most incredible night in our history, and lets be honest it was a ridiculous achievement to win the Champions League with THAT team. Rafa bought some great players and is a fine tactician.

Mourinho, regardless of how much money he has spent or trophies he wins, is a c***.



We agree to differ but happy Christmas anyway brother, Mick.

Clearly forgotten about the 3 goals we had disallowed in that final then, that should have stood.

Not only should Rafa have won the final convincingly (but for officiating) but he missed his Dad's funeral to make sure he was at the game.

Mate we'll have to agree to differ. You think Rafa is an absolutely flippin brilliant manager whereas I think he's a very good one. You think Mourinho needs billions to get success, I think he's had success sometimes where he hasn't spent billions.

Things we can agree on though:

Rafa is a nice fella whose heart is in the right place and he loves Liverpool FC. Istanbul was THE most incredible night in our history, and lets be honest it was a ridiculous achievement to win the Champions League with THAT team. Rafa bought some great players and is a fine tactician.

Mourinho, regardless of how much money he has spent or trophies he wins, is a c***.



We agree to differ but happy Christmas anyway brother, Mick.

You too mick , and agreed

Since he was sacked from us Rafa has won how many cups?

5, if I'm correct is not bad considering the monies his rivals are given.

No it's not bad if you're a mediocre coach in charge of mediocre teams that expect nothing and achieve nothing.

When you are the head man spending big bucks at the biggest clubs with top players, you're expected to win major trophies every season. And if you can't, you're gone as quick as you arrived. Italian Super Cups will carry no weight at all in when his board judge him.

You are a symptom of why this club has got to where it is you are happy with failure a loser unlike the man you snipe at Rafa Benitez a winner.

Winner of what? Italian Charity Shield twice? Wow, stuff that dreams are made of.

De Laurentis is no soft touch. Rafa wants better players to compete properly in Europe and the league, but De Laurentis is fiscally very responsible. This is where the sticking point is over the contract.

Ah, finances again. Groundhog Day!!

It's only last week he was cast hopelessly adrift in the league again and on the verge of his latest sacking. It will take a bit more than winning a Charity Shield on penalties to sort that out.

Rafa u genius!

I honestly believe if he was given just the choice of players that Mourinho, Ancellotti, Ferguson or Guardiola have taken for granted, he would win the UCL for the next 10 years running.

He can't make it past Athletic Bilbao in it these days.

When he finally agreed to go after snowballing us down the league, he was off to Inter to show us what he could do with more world class players every week. What we saw was a great side torn up and a sacking in 6 months.  When he got handed more world class players at Chelsea primed for a title challenge, he was going to show us why we should never have got rid of him. What we saw was failure in the League Cup, FA Cup, World Club Cup, and the League title on the way. At Napoli, he has the backing he wants, so he's going to show us why we should have him back. What we see so far is 2 blown European campaigns at home, another blown in Bilbao, finishing 25 points down the field, bang on course for a similiar margin now and therefore heading for the sack.

All he's shown since he left here is why the decision to replace him was fully justified. Yet it's the likes of me who are supposed to be in the wrong about him all the time.

He can't make it past Athletic Bilbao in it these days.

Rafa bought 1 player at the mid term for chelsea... Ba. He finished third, Mourinho last year had full season and preseason added Schurrle Matic Willian Salah and many more and got ..third Ta da. Oh and Rafa won the EL. This year that genius Mourinho went to his scouting department and came up with Diego Costa and Fabregas a couple of unknowns he will mould into talents genius. Rafa has managed for 2.5 seasons since leaving us with 3 teams won 4 trophies and qualified for the UCL twice. He lost to athletic but the season before finished on 12 pt with Dortmund and arsenal with a team that had just lost Cavani and lavezzi ( think of losing Suarez and Sturridge if you are not sure)

If money doesn't matter in football answer me this

In the EPL

Mancini 4 seasons 1 league title
Pellegrini 1 season (full) 1 league
Ancellotti 2 seasons 1 league title
Mourinho 5 seasons 2 league titles

What is the connection between these managers?

Rafa Benitez exists to win trophies.

Well in Boss

Rafa bought 1 player at the mid term for chelsea... Ba. He finished third.
If money doesn't matter in football answer me this

In the EPL

Mancini 4 seasons 1 league title
Pellegrini 1 season (full) 1 league
Ancellotti 2 seasons 1 league title
Mourinho 5 seasons 2 league titles

What is the connection between these managers?

They've all won something more important in our league than club record points totals.

Spare me the whining that he "only" bought one player. We bought no players at all last January, yet with a wafer thin squad, took our title challenge to the last day of the season. When could he last say that?

He had European Cup winners, world class players at Chelsea. The squad was already built for him. He even had one of his favourite players, Torres available. Somehow with all those resources, he managed to destroy a title challenge in weeks. Many of them are still there and now walking the league under a coach who knows how to win it, but he's still wondering how it's done.

They've all won something more important in our league than club record points totals.

Spare me the whining that he "only" bought one player. We bought no players at all last January, yet with a wafer thin squad, took our title challenge to the last day of the season. When could he last say that?

He had European Cup winners, world class players at Chelsea. The squad was already built for him. He even had one of his favourite players, Torres available. Somehow with all those resources, he managed to destroy a title challenge in weeks. Many of them are still there and now walking the league under a coach who knows how to win it, but he's still wondering how it's done.

no point arguing pal, its futile, hate to throw the kids argument into the mix, but the majority of Liverpool fans i know that support rafa are the ones who were starved of sucess and think 2005 was the turning point...bollox 12 of the players who actually walked on the pitch Geds signings. Been supporting for as long as can remember and we have not been well run or managed for years and years.

Went into LIVERPOOL CITY CENTRE the other day and into the club shop, compared to United Chelsea and Arsenal and now even city it looks like a F***ing corner shop its F***ing embarassing its a disgrace it really is, we have been left hanging by our owners and management for many a year, none since daglish can hold their heads up.

No it's not bad if you're a mediocre coach in charge of mediocre teams that expect nothing and achieve nothing.

When you are the head man spending big bucks at the biggest clubs with top players, you're expected to win major trophies every season. And if you can't, you're gone as quick as you arrived. Italian Super Cups will carry no weight at all in when his board judge him.

Winner of what? Italian Charity Shield twice? Wow, stuff that dreams are made of.

Ah, finances again. Groundhog Day!!

It's only last week he was cast hopelessly adrift in the league again and on the verge of his latest sacking. It will take a bit more than winning a Charity Shield on penalties to sort that out.

He can't make it past Athletic Bilbao in it these days.

When he finally agreed to go after snowballing us down the league, he was off to Inter to show us what he could do with more world class players every week. What we saw was a great side torn up and a sacking in 6 months.  When he got handed more world class players at Chelsea primed for a title challenge, he was going to show us why we should never have got rid of him. What we saw was failure in the League Cup, FA Cup, World Club Cup, and the League title on the way. At Napoli, he has the backing he wants, so he's going to show us why we should have him back. What we see so far is 2 blown European campaigns at home, another blown in Bilbao, finishing 25 points down the field, bang on course for a similiar margin now and therefore heading for the sack.

All he's shown since he left here is why the decision to replace him was fully justified. Yet it's the likes of me who are supposed to be in the wrong about him all the time.

Get to f**k, you don't half talk some sh*t lad 

We bought no players at all last January, yet with a wafer thin squad, took our title challenge to the last day of the season. When could he last say that?

Only because of Suarez, without Suarez we'd have been as fu**ed last season as we are this season so don't try that one lad.

no point arguing pal, its futile, hate to throw the kids argument into the mix, but the majority of Liverpool fans i know that support rafa are the ones who were starved of sucess and think 2005 was the turning point...bollox 12 of the players who actually walked on the pitch Geds signings. Been supporting for as long as can remember and we have not been well run or managed for years and years.

Went into LIVERPOOL CITY CENTRE the other day and into the club shop, compared to United Chelsea and Arsenal and now even city it looks like a f**king corner shop its f**king embarassing its a disgrace it really is, we have been left hanging by our owners and management for many a year, none since daglish can hold their heads up.

What about the ones who aren't 'kids' who still respect Rafa? Pal

What about the ones who lived through plenty of success but still respect Rafa? Pal

What about the ones who live or come from the city who still respect Rafa? Pal

What about the ones who know that 12 of the players were Houllier signings but know that he wasn't the coach that won the Chanpions league with them that year? Pal

Yoy know what pal... Anyone who can't respect what Rafa did on and off the pitch is the more F***ing embarrassing ones out of us... The ones who want to dig out a man who loves this club as much as you or me or anyone attached to it.. For whatever weird obsessional reason is the bigger problem

Only because of Suarez, without Suarez we'd have been as fu**ed last season

Sorry, not buying that.

He was gone for the first 5 league games. We got 10 points from them. His teammates scored 70 goals last season to add to his own tally. Our title challenge (in half the time it took Rafa, with less than half the budget) wasn't solely down to him.

Sorry, not buying that.

Well congratulations because I'm not selling it.

Sorry, not buying that.

He was gone for the first 5 league games. We got 10 points from them. His teammates scored 70 goals last season to add to his own tally. Our title challenge (in half the time it took Rafa, with less than half the budget) wasn't solely down to him.

Without Suarez we scraped through 3 league games at 1-0, scraped a 2-2 draw with Swansea and lost to Saints so we weren't all that great without him. Yes there were a lot of other goals through the team last season but you are forgetting that he assisted 12 of those which without we would have been down to 58 and then you have to take into account he was involved in so many other goals too. We are seeing this season the impact of not having him by scoring barely any goals, we have only scored 3 twice this season (Spurs - best performance of the season, and QPR - 2 of which were own goals). So don't go with all that bullshit about there being 70 other goals throughout the team when you don't include Suarez getting the goals because he was involved, by either setting it up directly or being involved in the build up play for a good 20+ goals.

Less than half the budget?! Ha!!

You're right about the title challenge being sooner, but at least our first season in the Champions League under Rafa didn't result in us crashing out with our tails between our legs having been embarrassed in the group stage. Try and argue that one against Rafa...

Only because of Suarez, without Suarez we'd have been as fu**ed last season as we are this season so don't try that one lad.

I don't think we'd have been 'fu**ed' but certainly it's hard to imagine we'd have challenged for the title without Suarez last season (which was way beyond most people's expectations). If we are being fair to both managers, though, then we have to say that just as Brendan inherited a squad that included Suarez, so Rafa had the benefit of being able to call on Steven Gerrard in his pomp -- and would we have won the Champions League without Gerrard? I think not.

That's probably true, but if we are being fair to both managers then we have to say that just as Brendan inherited a squad that included Suarez, so Rafa had the benefit of being able to call on Steven Gerrard in his pomp -- and would we have won the Champions League without Gerrard? I think not.

Well you can say that about any player that is inherited by a manager that wins a trophy in their first season.

Well you can say that about any player that is inherited by a manager that wins a trophy in their first season.

Yeah, although I don't think Igor Biscan and Djimi Traore were as important as Steven Gerrard. There are certain players who you can't do without, and he was one of them. To deny Brendan his dues for guiding us to our best league effort in over 20 years simply because he didn't buy our best player is the equivalent of denying Rafa credit for guiding us to CL and FA Cup success simply because he inherited arguably the best player in our history. Obviously it was pretty fortunate for both of them, but at the same time no one player makes a team. However, if people are going to get started with the 'without Suarez' arguments, let's have some 'without Gerrard' arguments to be balance it out a bit. That way we are being fair to both managers.

Yeah, although I don't think Igor Biscan and Djimi Traore were as important as Steven Gerrard. There are certain players who you can't do without, and he was one of them. To deny Brendan his dues for guiding us to our best league effort in over 20 years simply because he didn't buy our best player is the equivalent of denying Rafa credit for guiding us to CL and FA Cup success simply because he inherited arguably the best player in our history. Obviously it was pretty fortunate for both of them, but at the same time no one player makes a team. However, if people are going to get started with the 'without Suarez' arguments, let's have some 'without Gerrard' arguments to be balance it out a bit. That way we are being fair to both managers.

Not denying Rodgers anything but it's crystal clear this season that it was because of Suarez and yes Gerrard was our key player for the 2005 victory but at the same time that is a knockout competition and although Gerrard played a vital part it wasn't over a competition as long as the Premier League. Chances are we wouldn't have won the Champions League in 2005 without Gerrard, exactly the same as we wouldn't have come second last season had it not been for Suarez. Don't see how I have been unfair to either manager to be honest.

Not denying Rodgers anything but it's crystal clear this season that it was because of Suarez and yes Gerrard was our key player for the 2005 victory but at the same time that is a knockout competition and although Gerrard played a vital part it wasn't over a competition as long as the Premier League. Chances are we wouldn't have won the Champions League in 2005 without Gerrard, exactly the same as we wouldn't have come second last season had it not been for Suarez. Don't see how I have been unfair to either manager to be honest.

Fair enough, mate. As long as it's both managers who would have been 'f**ked' without their best player then I've got no complaints, although I personally think that last season, while almost certainly we wouldn't have challenged for the title without Suarez (who would have taken his place?? We'll never know), we wouldn't necessarily have been 'f*cked'. At least no more 'f**ked' than we would have been without Gerrard in 04/05.

Fair enough, mate. As long as it's both managers who would have been 'f**ked' without their best player then I've got no complaints, although I personally think that last season, while almost certainly we wouldn't have challenged for the title without Suarez (who would have taken his place?? We'll never know), we wouldn't necessarily have been 'f*cked'. At least no more 'f**ked' than we would have been without Gerrard in 04/05.

You and your 10 other avatars should really go onto your own site. It is pretty obvious that an entity coming on this board and saying Rafa did a sh*te job and the real genius are the managers who have 300 million worth of talent at their disposal and the frauds are the ones who call on Stevie g in their pomp, I mean the probability of you being an lfc fan is ....... 0 .

They've all won something more important in our league than club record points totals.

Spare me the whining that he "only" bought one player. We bought no players at all last January, yet with a wafer thin squad, took our title challenge to the last day of the season. When could he last say that?

He had European Cup winners, world class players at Chelsea. The squad was already built for him. He even had one of his favourite players, Torres available. Somehow with all those resources, he managed to destroy a title challenge in weeks. Many of them are still there and now walking the league under a coach who knows how to win it, but he's still wondering how it's done.

Rafa had six months and one player . Your darling had 1 year and 4 top players and more future players why did he come third ?

You and your 10 other avatars should really go onto your own site. It is pretty obvious that an entity coming on this board and saying Rafa did a Sh*te job and the real genius are the managers who have 300 million worth of talent at their disposal and the frauds are the ones who call on Stevie g in their pomp, I mean the probability of you being an lfc fan is ....... 0 .

And, given how far wide of the mark you are, the probability of you being sh*tfaced when you wrote this is a good deal higher than that.

And, given how far wide of the mark you are, the probability of you being sh*tfaced when you wrote this is a good deal higher than that.

Actually I wasn't drunk but I did mean to quote Mad4lfc and lfc across the water,
Sorry I hit the wrong button, no offence intended.

Actually I wasn't drunk but I did mean to quote Mad4lfc and lfc across the water,
Sorry I hit the wrong button, no offence intended.

This from someone who backed Hodgson to get us in the top 4!!!! forgive me if i take no notice of someone with such limited knowledge who plays the "you must not be a Liverpool fan card"....