Johnson or Kelly

Can't agree with you about Aurelio, but Arbeloa was called on it, but in his final few months here, greatly improved as an attacking full back.

They both put their defending first. Aurelio would push forward yes but not so far that he'd be looking to get in behind the opponent full back. Same with Arbeloa.

Kelly reminds me a lot of Arbeloa except Martin is quicker and can cross much better. I'm struggling to see what Johnson offers that is so much better because if you watched Johnson before he got injured he wasn't even offering much in attack.

They both put their defending first. Aurelio would push forward yes but not so far that he'd be looking to get in behind the opponent full back. Same with Arbeloa.

Kelly reminds me a lot of Arbeloa except Martin is quicker and can cross much better. I'm struggling to see what Johnson offers that is so much better because if you watched

Johnson before he got injured he wasn't even offering much in attack.

Agree on this plus Kelly is better at defending IMHO. If fit there is no surprise he will again push Johnson out.

As for Richards I used to think he was going to be world class, but for me he has been hitting the gym to much has put to much bulk on and lost a bit of speed.

It is a myth that Johnson can't defend.

As for Kelly, as much brilliant potential he has, I would not put him as a starter as much next season as people want. He is still developing, his body is still developing, let him get up to the fitness and physical standard before throwing him in at the deep end. Try him out at CB a few times. I can still see him playing 25-30 games. Let's hope he doesn't get another injury next season.

It is a myth that Johnson can't defend.

As for Kelly, as much brilliant potential he has, I would not put him as a starter as much next season as people want. He is still developing, his body is still developing, let him get up to the fitness and physical standard before throwing him in at the deep end. Try him out at
 CB a few times. I can still see him playing 25-30 games. Let's hope he doesn't get another injury next season.

Kelly is still growing will give you that, will also give you that Glen can tackle. But you cannot argue that his positional sense is awful and has cost us on more than one occasion, this does and always will worry me.

Kelly is still growing will give you that, will also give you that Glen can tackle. But you cannot argue that his positional sense is awful and has cost us on more than one occasion, this does and always will worry me.

Well for a good portion of the last 12 months, Glen has probably been our most attacking and creative players, mainly down the right. It was all on his shoulders to create their as Kuyt was not and the midfield were certainly not. He was bound to get caught out sometime. He can't do it all.

Well for a good portion of the last 12 months, Glen has probably been our most attacking and creative players, mainly down the right. It was all on his shoulders to create their as Kuyt was not and the midfield were certainly not. He was bound to get caught out sometime. He can't do it all.

We will agree to differ, seen him caught out when we defending and on set pieces etc etc. Not just after he's been on a charge. As for him being England number one I honestly think a bit of snobbery goes on and the England set up pick players due to clubs and transfer fees rather than ability. But I know that Kelly ousted him and was probably our most influential player under Kenny.

Kelly is the better right back for me, but I think Johnson looks much more suited to left back than he is right. He does have poor positonal sense though.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone give any statistics or a few examples of these moments were Johnson has costs us goals? Like i said Kelly would be my first choice RB with Johnson ahead of him on the wing. But I keep hearing people harp on about "how many goals hes been at fault for", and Im struggling to think of many examples.

I agree he isn't the best defensivly, but honestly think his frailties get blown massively out of proportion.

We will agree to differ, seen him caught out when we defending and on set pieces etc etc. Not just after he's been on a charge. As for him being England number one I honestly think a bit of snobbery goes on and the England set up pick players due to clubs and transfer fees rather than ability. But I know that Kelly ousted him and was probably our most influential player under Kenny.

I can see where you're coming from. Like he has been caught ball-watching or whatever in defence, causing chances or goals. We can all see that. What annoys me is that he is just constantly being put-down and said he can't defend.  It's total bullsit. I remember last season, he was being hounded all year in the press for being a sh*t defender, but great going forward. We played United at home, he barely crossed the half-way line all game, he had the LW in his pocket all game, a defending masterclass. We went on to win the game 2-0 and not a word was said about his defending.

I remember agianst Blackpool he definetly cost us one, possibly Sunderland and there are more but I can't think off the top of my head.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone give any statistics or a few examples of these moments were Johnson has costs us goals? Like I said Kelly would be my first choice RB with Johnson ahead of him on the wing. But I keep hearing people harp on about "how many goals hes been at fault for", and Im struggling to think of many examples.

I agree he isn't the best defensivly, but honestly think his frailties get blown massively out of proportion.

Forgive me for copying and pasting as on the iPad but this article sums it up for me.

* Johnson's arrival coincided with the club's worst league season since 1994 (in terms of position); worst overall season (all competitions) in decades, which included failure to get out of the group stage of the CL; a horrible 7th place league finish, with the consequent failure to qualify for this season's CL.

* In 2008-9 - prior to Johnson's arrival - 2 games were lost *all season*. Johnson arrived, and he featured in 12 defeats in 35 games (over one third of all the games in which he appeared). Coincidence?

* In his 35 appearances last season, the team conceded 30 goals (with Johnson directly responsible for several) His defensive frailty was exposed time and time again across the season, not only for Liverpool, but for England too.

* Despite Johnson's much vaunted attacking prowess, he managed only 3 goals and 3 assists all season. Then again, that's hardly surprising given that in the 7 years prior to joining Liverpool he averaged a paltry 1 goal and 2 assists a season. Johnson couldn't even beat his career-best figures for Portsmouth in 2008-9, where he got 3 goals and 6 assists in 37 games. Is this the level of return expected from an 18m player who is, apparently, amazing going forward?

* Johnson was directly at fault for several important goals over the season, including (amongst others) both goals in the 2-1 home defeat to Arsenal, and Christian Benitez's equalising goal for Birmingham in the 2-2 draw at Anfield. His mistakes have continued this season with his poor positional play leading to Sunderland's second goal today.

This is a hillarious thread, so all one of his biggest critics on here and a wind up merchant can find is he may have been badly positioned for a goal at Sunderland. Absolute rubbish posted above. I love this people saying he is at fault for loads of goals and then when you ask them what match they haven't a F***ing clue. Remember the Arsenal match he was at fault for one goal but F**k me show me a full back that hasn't been at fault for 1 goal in 2 seasons.

 According to Opta he is the top performing defender in the league the last 2 seasons yet some people want to blame him for all our problems. I think personally Hicks and Gillette were to blame but hey lets blame Glen for everything.

Why have I a problem Lfc because I rate one of our players ya that is some F***ing problem, don't know why you keep trying to have digs because I rate the lad very F***ing sad to be honest.

And I'm willing to bet anyone on here if we sign a left back Johnson will be our regular right back next season, I'm willing to stay off here for a while if I'm wrong what about the same people saying Kelly will be doing the same thing if they are wrong

Christ Gazza, who wrote that article, Micah Richards?

But fair enough, I asked a question and I got an answer

Forgive me for copying and pasting as on the iPad but this article sums it up for me.

* Johnson's arrival coincided with the club's worst league season since 1994 (in terms of position); worst overall season (all competitions) in decades, which included failure to get out of the group stage of the CL; a horrible 7th place league finish, with the consequent failure to qualify for this season's CL.

* In 2008-9 - prior to Johnson's arrival - 2 games were lost *all season*. Johnson arrived, and he featured in 12 defeats in 35 games (over one third of all the games in which he appeared). Coincidence?

* In his 35 appearances last season, the team conceded 30 goals (with Johnson directly responsible for several) His defensive frailty was exposed time and time again across the season, not only for Liverpool, but for England too.

* Despite Johnson's much vaunted attacking prowess, he managed only 3 goals and 3 assists all season. Then again, that's hardly surprising given that in the 7 years prior to joining Liverpool he averaged a paltry 1 goal and 2 assists a season. Johnson couldn't even beat his career-best figures for Portsmouth in 2008-9, where he got 3 goals and 6 assists in 37 games. Is this the level of return expected from an 18m player who is, apparently, amazing going forward?

* Johnson was directly at fault for several important goals over the season, including (amongst others) both goals in the 2-1 home defeat to Arsenal, and Christian Benitez's equalising goal for Birmingham in the 2-2 draw at Anfield. His mistakes have continued this season with his poor positional play leading to Sunderland's second goal today.

http://www.braveathena.com/images/piratesarecool4.jpg

This is a hillarious thread, so all one of his biggest critics on here and a wind up merchant can find is he may have been badly positioned for a goal at Sunderland. Absolute rubbish posted above. I love this people saying he is at fault for loads of goals and then when you ask them what match they haven't a f**king clue. Remember the Arsenal match he was at fault for one goal but f**k me show me a full back that hasn't been at fault for 1 goal in 2
seasons.

 According to Opta he is the top performing defender in the league the last 2 seasons yet some people want to blame him for all our problems. I think personally Hicks and Gillette
were to blame but hey lets blame Glen for everything.

Why have I a problem Lfc because I rate one of our players ya that is some f**king problem, don't know why you keep trying to have digs because I rate the lad very f**king sad to be honest.

And I'm willing to bet anyone on here if we sign a left back Johnson will be our regular right back next season, I'm willing to stay off here for a while if I'm wrong what about the same people saying Kelly will be doing the same thing if they are wrong

Corbally please do us all a favour and stop taking it F***ing personal when someone anyone disagrees with you, according to this thread 70 % on here disagree with you they are not all on the wind up ffs it's called an opinion. You seemed to find it hard to take that people have differing opinions than your own but opinions are just that and what makes a good forum.

What makes a bad forum is not being able to take someone elses differing opinion without saying your a Wum, or your F***ing sad or they haven't a F***ing clue because that fella is personal and your to quick with the personal stuff of late, if the posters it's aimed at bite the forum gets dragged down.

Just some feedback take it or leave it.

Won't take it off you because your a complete wind up merchant, i'm old enough and wise enough to be able to see through you Gazza and your ramblings. I'm going back to ignoring you because you talk F**k all sense on football and every post is looking for a rise off people. Dunno how anyone takes you serious after your posts in the problem with Anfield thread

I'll continue to back a good player we have and have no doubt he will be our and Englands right back next season if Enrique does arrive

Forgive me for copying and pasting as on the iPad but this article sums it up for me.

* Johnson's arrival coincided with the club's worst league season since 1994 (in terms of position); worst overall season (all competitions) in decades, which included failure to get out of the group stage of the CL; a horrible 7th place league finish, with the consequent failure to qualify for this season's CL.

* In 2008-9 - prior to Johnson's arrival - 2 games were lost *all season*. Johnson arrived, and he featured in 12 defeats in 35 games (over one third of all the games in which he appeared). Coincidence?

* In his 35 appearances last season, the team conceded 30 goals (with Johnson directly responsible for several) His defensive frailty was exposed time and time again across the season, not only for Liverpool, but for England too.

* Despite Johnson's much vaunted attacking prowess, he managed only 3 goals and 3 assists all season. Then again, that's hardly surprising given that in the 7 years prior to joining Liverpool he averaged a paltry 1 goal and 2 assists a season. Johnson couldn't even beat his career-best figures for Portsmouth in 2008-9, where he got 3 goals and 6 assists in 37 games. Is this the level of return expected from an 18m player who is, apparently, amazing going forward?

* Johnson was directly at fault for several important goals over the season, including (amongst others) both goals in the 2-1 home defeat to Arsenal, and Christian Benitez's equalising goal for Birmingham in the 2-2 draw at Anfield. His mistakes have continued this season with his poor positional play leading to Sunderland's second goal today.

^^^^^ This, is from a certain (often suspected semi-Manc) website based in Bristol.  To be honest, I wouldn't trust the guy that wrote it with a 3 pound note.  He's been very quiet recently since H&G left .... hmmmm! 

I'll defer to Kenny on this.  I'd like to see Kelly get a run at CB as well.  I thought that was his natural position?

^^^^^ This, is from a certain (often suspected semi-Manc) website based in Bristol.  To be honest, I wouldn't trust the guy that wrote it with a 3 pound note.  He's been very quiet recently since H&G left .... hmmmm! 

I'll defer to Kenny on this.  I'd like to see Kelly get a run at CB as well.  I thought that was
his natural position?

Kelly is a defender who turns his hand to attacking, but does it very well personally I think he will be wasted at CB to be honest.

Kelly is a defender who turns his hand to attacking, but does it very well personally I think he will be wasted at CB to be honest.

Agree with you on the attacking.  But we could do with someone with some pace etc at CB, like Agger.  I guess as the summer goes on we'll see the plans materialise.

Agree with you on the attacking.  But we could do with someone with some pace etc at CB, like Agger.  I guess as the summer goes on we'll see the plans materialise.

Agree again, Carra Skrtel Greek not the answer for the modern game. Summer should be fun.

Kelly is a defender who turns his hand to attacking, but does it very well personally I think he will be wasted at CB to be honest.

That may be but he has all the attribute to make an excellent CB. Versatile player but I feel he should be played at CB if we don't buy one in the summer.

Are you telling me that article posted is from that c**t Jamie Kanwar, anyone posting any of his sh*t should be embarrassed with themselves

Agree with you on the attacking.  But we could do with someone with some pace etc at CB, like Agger.  I guess as the summer goes on we'll see the plans materialise.

Skrtel is faster than Agger, why does everyone think the opposite?

That may be but he has all the attribute to make an excellent CB. Versatile player but I feel he should be played at CB if we don't buy one in the summer.

He's miles away from becoming a CB yet, he's actually pretty average in the air.  He'll get there but it will take some time, Ayala/Wilson both far better choices currently.  As far as attacking goes, he's pretty poor - one of the main reasons he's doing well is because of his energy which comes with him being so youthful.  He'll get shifted to CB in a good 3-4 years from now.

Also, at posting a Kanwar article.