NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

For me Mouse, and sorry to jump in, I think football wise they have managed to assemble a very good squad of players that gives us a base to go on and be successful.

We had a good squad mate (or the basis of one); a squad which should have been added to with quality not quantity, from the off.

We have had an unbelievable turnover in players in a short period of time - all down to FSG's policy (as outlined in John W's letter) and before we go rewriting history here - that turnover not only saw the arrival of some utter dross it also saw the departure of some top quality. The thing is: the quality was never replaced with similar or better.

Although I feel it's unbalanced - the current squad is laced with potential i'll give you that but let's be brutally honest here -  a team assembled for £350m really should be dripping in quality not F***ing potential.

I tell you what tho' Si - I honestly feel optimistic about the future (even the immediate future). Now that may just down to a Klopp feel-good factor or the fact other top teams are also stuttering or even the fact that I feel FSG might have genuinely decided on a new direction [using our money to add quality - not potential, not quantity] but... that does not (and can not) detract from the fact it's taken five years, three managers, one DoF, eleventy-nine players and three hundred and fifty million pounds, to get here. So let's not pretend otherwise.   

However... what's done is done - I'll happily wipe the slate clean and start from year zero.   

In a footballing context many would agree.

And many would need to get their head out of the sand.

Got to give credit where it's due - [given Brendan's sacking was, as it turns out, inevitable] the timing of Jürgen Klopp's arrival was spot on.
Talking football here and honestly not trying to score points or win an argument: given the position we are in, five years down the line - what other decisions, in your opinion, did they get right?

They've backed both managers they have hired in the market and spent whatever it took to get their man in. That's all they need to do. We may not agree with those decisions in hindsight (Carroll for £35m, Downing for £20m, Lovren for £20m etc. etc.) but isn't that all we ask of owners? Back the manager?

Now if we were to purely look at the footballing aspect of it, wouldn't it be fair to give some leeway given they were novices when they bought the club? And even for novices, they have done a pretty solid job considering they know that they need to invest money to build a successful team and the manager they have needs to have the tools he thinks is required to win games.

And to look at their footballing decisions alone, it would ignore the other areas of their ownership that we would consider "strengths" given their business background.

They brought obvious strengths to the club when they took over and i challenge anyone to dispute that they have done a remarkable job in those areas.

Yes, mistakes have been made in terms of the football side of the business, but you look at other clubs who have been taken over by people without footballing backgrounds, and the mistakes our owners have made are paltry in comparison. Hell, i'd rather have our owners over everyone in the league bar a very select few (Chelsea, City, Arsenal most notably - but two of those purely because their mistakes could be overcome by throwing hundreds of millions more at the problem to solve it).

But in 5 years we went from almost bankrupt and the most pathetic manager i have ever seen at the helm, to financially very strong and one of the finest managers in the world taking over. It's the business world's version of a minor miracle.

When it's put that way, doesn't sound so bad does it?

I really don't see how people could be expecting any more than what we have been given. It's as if the situation around the club when they took over has been forgotten and that they started on a level playing field to the rest of the teams in the top half. Instead they took over with the club 10 paces back to the clubs we were so accustomed to be competing with.

So either people forget how destructive H&G were, or they have expectations of our owners that were exceptionally unrealistic.

And many would need to get their head out of the sand.

Are you entirely serious?

10th in the league, an echoing trophy cabinet, 4 managers in their 5 year tenure, held to a draw by some second rate side in a second rate Euro tournament etc etc, yet you feel we should be lauding FSG for the wonderful job they have done at LFC?

Think it is yourself who should extricate his head from an orifice.

Are you entirely serious?

10th in the league, an echoing trophy cabinet, 4 managers in their 5 year tenure, held to a draw by some second rate side in a second rate Euro tournament etc etc, yet you feel we should be lauding FSG for the wonderful job they have done at LFC?

Think it is yourself who should extricate his head from an orifice.

I only really count it as their second manager.

They inherited Dodgson.

Kenny was always going to be a caretaker.

So Klopp is the second manager they wanted to appoint.

I only really count it as their second manager.

They inherited Dodgson.

Kenny was always going to be a caretaker.

So Klopp is the second manager they wanted to appoint.

Not on paper Si.

 So you are fine with the rest of the FSG record I mentioned?
10th in the Prem, empty trophy cabinet and us being held by minnows at fortress Anfield.

Are you entirely serious?

10th in the league, an echoing trophy cabinet, 4 managers in their 5 year tenure, held to a draw by some second rate side in a second rate Euro tournament etc etc, yet you feel we should be lauding FSG for the wonderful job they have done at LFC?

Think it is yourself who should extricate his head from an orifice.

1. Roy - Needed to go
2. Kenny - Not a sustainable plan, league performance was not good enough. Needed to go.
3. Rogers - Needed to go
4. Klopp

Sorry mate but the 4 managers thing isn't your strongest argument as they all needed to go. Now what you could say is their decisions in hiring were poor. Now it seems they have got it right with Klopp.

Not on paper Si.

 So you are fine with the rest of the FSG record I mentioned?
10th in the Prem, empty trophy cabinet and us being held by minnows at fortress Anfield.

Of course I'm not happy but it's the previous manager who has us sitting 10th in the league and with an empty trophy cabinet.

They obviously weren't happy with that as they fired him and hired Klopp.

Interesting that Alyson Rudd (Times journalist and Liverpool fan) said that word around Anfield since May has been that Klopp would join in October. 

Possibly explains why Brendan wasn't sacked in the summer even though he was then allowed to spend so much money.  Maybe the rumours about Firmino being a Klopp pick weren't far off the mark?

If true, part of me wants to say "I'm not sure if I approve of that type of backhanded behaviour" but the other part's saying "excellent work to realise what was needed and went out and secured it regardless" 

But in 5 years we went from almost bankrupt and the most pathetic manager i have ever seen at the helm, to financially very strong and one of the finest managers in the world taking over. It's the business world's version of a minor miracle.

When it's put that way, doesn't sound so bad does it?

No... no, when painted that way, it doesn't Crouchy but...

As we are talking football here, let's remove the 'financial' and 'business' aspect from what you say ['cause let's be honest here; they didn't do that without agenda] and let's try to be honest - removing Hodgson was hardly a masterstroke and (given your opinion on Brendan), neither was replacing Kenny with him. In fact they could have given us any of the finest managers in the world then (instead of trying to be smart-arsed). No?

So, finally, five years down the line (and although no one knows how things will pan out) FSG have rewarded us with a fine manager. For that I thank them. I tell you better than that; if what Werner says about a "taking new direction" turns out to be honest... I will happily, like you, pretend the past five years didn't happen. I will start with a clean slate.

So either people forget how destructive H&G were, or they have expectations of our owners that were exceptionally unrealistic.

Straight from the 'My sister's new boyfriend beats her but let's be grateful... at least he's not Ted Bundy' school of thought. 

Like all football fans - I hope this heralds a new dawn and for that reason alone I've said all I'm going to say on all of their past mistakes. 

 

1. Roy - Needed to go
2. Kenny - Not a sustainable plan, league performance was not good enough. Needed to go.
3. Rogers - Needed to go
4. Klopp

Sorry mate but the 4 managers thing isn't your strongest argument as they all needed to go. Now what you could say is their decisions in hiring were poor. Now it seems they have got it right with Klopp.

Exactly my point mate, five F***ing years into the learning curve (which wouldn't have been necessary had they let people with the acknowledged skills do the job) and they appoint someone qualified to get us to the next level, why was this not done at the first opportunity?
More to the point if the new man isn't backed adequately we are back to square one.

Genuinely hope FSG have seen the light and abandoned the analytical bollocks used to impose false economies.

Exactly my point mate, five F***ing years into the learning curve (which wouldn't have been necessary had they let people with the acknowledged skills do the job) and they appoint someone qualified to get us to the next level, why was this not done at the first opportunity?
More to the point if the new man isn't backed adequately we are back to square one.

Genuinely hope FSG have seen the light and abandoned the analytical bollocks used to impose false economies.

The didn't appoint Roy.

Everyone, almost to a man, wanted Kenny.

So the only appointment they got 'wrong' was Brendan and correct me if I'm wrong Stuey but you were a pretty big supporter of Brendan and always tended to blame FSG for our poor form in the last 18 months or so.

Of course I'm not happy but it's the previous manager who has us sitting 10th in the league and with an empty trophy cabinet.

They obviously weren't happy with that as they fired him and hired Klopp.

They did appoint him in the first place mate, a mid-table manager with the all important ''potential''.

Possibly explains why Brendan wasn't sacked in the summer even though he was then allowed to spend so much money.  Maybe the rumours about Firmino being a Klopp pick weren't far off the mark?

What? Never! 

Heck, it could even be (rather than risking so much money on Brendan's judgment, knowing it might fail) that they merely continued with a laid out plan. Who knows?

Anyhow, back to Klopp... maybe I've imagined this but wasn't he linked with/tried to sign both Benteke and Firmino?
http://www.lfcreds.com/reds/index.php/topic,48134.msg1837871.html#msg1837871

Are you suggesting that Brendan didn't spend that money after all? 

So the only appointment they got 'wrong' was Brendan

Not in their minds tho' eh? Think about it. 

No... no, when painted that way, it doesn't Crouchy but...

As we are talking football here, let's remove the 'financial' and 'business' aspect from what you say ['cause let's be honest here; they didn't do that without agenda] and let's try to be honest - removing Hodgson was hardly a masterstroke and (given your opinion on Brendan), neither was replacing Kenny with him. In fact they could have given us any of the finest managers in the world then (instead of trying to be smart-arsed). No?

So, finally, five years down the line (and although no one knows how things will pan out) FSG have rewarded us with a fine manager. For that I thank them. I tell you better than that; if what Werner says about a "taking new direction" turns out to be honest... I will happily, like you, pretend the past five years didn't happen. I will start with a clean slate.
Straight from the 'My sister's new boyfriend beats her but let's be grateful... at least he's not Ted Bundy' school of thought. 

Like all football fans - I hope this heralds a new dawn and for that reason alone I've said all I'm going to say on all of their past mistakes. 

Putting words in my mouth and cutting out most of my post doesn't really entice me to give this a reasonable response, BBB.

The didn't appoint Roy.

Everyone, almost to a man, wanted Kenny.

So the only appointment they got 'wrong' was Brendan and correct me if I'm wrong Stuey but you were a pretty big supporter of Brendan and always tended to blame FSG for our poor form in the last 18 months or so.

So after admitting to making mistakes they subsequently F**k up again apparently, your words not mine mate.
When they took over Hodgson was in situ for quite some time, FSG would have been happy if Roy had not fu**ed up so badly and made his post untenable, the Comolli/Dalglish interlude was an unmitigated disaster from start to finish.

All FSG blunders, as stated we can only hope they back Klopp and have turned over a new leaf.

Exactly my point mate, five F***ing years into the learning curve (which wouldn't have been necessary had they let people with the acknowledged skills do the job) and they appoint someone qualified to get us to the next level, why was this not done at the first opportunity?
More to the point if the new man isn't backed adequately we are back to square one.

Genuinely hope FSG have seen the light and abandoned the analytical bollocks used to impose false economies.

I think Roy was appointed by someone else, Kenny was a caretaker and Brendan was their man. He took us closer to a Premier League title than any other manager has so I think he was the right man for the job at the time. Now it's a new time and the owners have recognised it. Once again I think we have the right man for the job.

So after admitting to making mistakes they subsequently F**k up again apparently, your words not mine mate.

Not sure what you mean but if you mean appointing Brendan after Kenny I don't recall them 'admitting mistakes' just that they wanted to go in a different direction with a young progressive coach.

When they took over Hodgson was in situ for quite some time

He was in place for a matter of months. Hardly 'quite some time'.

Putting words in my mouth and cutting out most of my post doesn't really entice me to give this a reasonable response, BBB.

I only cut out the bits which were not about football mate and if you read back I only did that because I had asked you what other football decisions did they get right.

Talking football here and honestly not trying to score points or win an argument: given the position we are in, five years down the line - what other decisions, in your opinion, did they get right?

I'm not saying you purposely ignored that mate - you probably just missed it. Right?

As for putting words into your mouth: which words?

Interesting that Alyson Rudd (Times journalist and Liverpool fan) said that word around Anfield since May has been that Klopp would join in October. 

Possibly explains why Brendan wasn't sacked in the summer even though he was then allowed to spend so much money.  Maybe the rumours about Firmino being a Klopp pick weren't far off the mark?

If true, part of me wants to say "I'm not sure if I approve of that type of backhanded behaviour" but the other part's saying "excellent work to realise what was needed and went out and secured it regardless" 

to be honest there are so many rumours and stories flying around the club these days i take them all with a very large pinch of salt.

When they took over Hodgson was in situ for quite some time

He lasted 6 months in the job and half that time wasn't even under FSG's ownership.

Just stop embarrassing yourself in this thread. Many people have come in and put some reasonable and engaging arguments together against FSG. You do nothing but list off all the arguments you would see in a Facebook comment section.

Not sure what you mean but if you mean appointing Brendan after Kenny I don't recall them 'admitting mistakes' just that they wanted to go in a different direction with a young progressive coach.

Ah for F**k's sake Si... c'mon mate. 

They gave the man a three year contract - presumably because they thought they were right. They then sacked him - presumably because they 'realised' they were wrong: that in itself is an admittance. They also hired Comolli - before sacking him. Then Brendan.

Forget what you or I thought about those appointments mate; that doesn't matter. What matters is that they [FSG] initially thought they had gotten each one right only to 'admit' [by sacking] that they got them wrong.

Now... If they can, by their very actions, admit they got things wrong: why the F**k can't everyone else? 

I only cut out the bits which were not about football mate and if you read back I only did that because I had asked you what other football decisions did they get right.
I'm not saying you purposely ignored that mate - you probably just missed it. Right?

As for putting words into your mouth: which words?

I didn't miss anything. I answered in the first line:

They've backed both managers they have hired in the market and spent whatever it took to get their man in. That's all they need to do.