NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

Lifted this Luke from your informed and perceptive post.
The quandary is entrenched as you rightly point out and until JWH abandons his self-created fee ceiling nothing will improve.

Unfortunately mate I agree with you.

We need to bring in at least one starting XI player on the attack and we need cover in various positions but I don't see where a repeat of last summer and starting from ground zero is going to be the case.

Fair enough AZ, I did neglect to include Can who, while going off the boil recently, does indeed look like he could step up to take a midfield starting role. I'm sure at the end of next Summer we'll be struggling to negotiate his contract also...

end of next Summer we'll be struggling to negotiate his contract also...

That like many other things is a distinct possibility.

Hmm think our problems are a little deeper though.

Midfield is weak, with Gerrard leaving, Allen and Lallana continually looking like squad options at best (even that's pushing their talent imo) then we're going to need serious restructuring in there. Henderson is far from consistent enough to be relied upon and his disappearing act against certain teams means we need someone who can seriously threaten his position in the first team also. For me our most reliable midfielder is Lucas but again you would want to have some cover as the injuries he picks up now are becoming far more regular and when returning from them can look slow.

LB and RB are both issues, Johnson is leaving, Moreno has proven frustrating and over-rated, Manquillo has proven average but consistent. We need much more back there and then you have CB. Toure is getting on, Lovren has proven to be a bit of a shambles so we can only hope that Ilori comes back and takes a hold of one of back-up spots or Skrtel and Sakho alone would be too little to rely upon also.

Migs has regained, or even surpassed his best form but I would still like some cover in case he returns to his calamitous worst. There's a high chance Sterling will leave imo and then what exactly are we left with? The same scenario as last summer, lots of players coming, more ready made excuses for all of them and Brendan and yet another season of transition, not exactly exciting progress that is it?

We have no use for Balo, Borini and Lambert and Gerrard, Johnson, Toure, Jones and Flanno are all out of contract in the summer.  One of those is definitely leaving but conceivably all of them could, although we've barely used them this season anyway. 

It's sounding like Skrtel and Lucas could be off and I doubt Enrique will play for us again.  Added to all these we've got contract problems with Hendo and Sterling.  That's 13 players or more than half this seasons squad.

We have Origi, Tex, Wisdom, Ilori, Coates, Aspas and Alberto to come back from loan but only the first 4 have any sort of chance of being part of the first team next season.  Manquillo could well be recalled too.

So that leaves

GK's

Migs

Defenders

Wisdom
Ilori
Lovren
Sakho
Moreno
Can?

Midfielders

Allen
Can
Coutinho
Lallana
Texeira
Markovic
Ibe?

Attackers

Sturridge
Origi

Add in youngsters who might step up next season

Ojo
Sinclair
Williams

That makes Joe Allen our most senior player with 3 whole seasons at the Club.

This season was supposed to be the season we started to build our squad, to bed in all our young potential stars and look forward to seeing them grow together, with very little need to add so many new faces again but it could all go tits up again meaning we're left with another rebuilding job.

Obviously I hope I'm totally wrong and only the ones who aren't needed will be the ones to leave but I'm not confident enough in the Board to get it right.

Like I said in my earlier post, it's the ones who leave rather than those coming in that I'm concerned about.

I think Can, Hendo, Lucas, Allen could handle mid-field duties as well as bringing Tex in to cover in cup matches.

I half agree with you mate. Can is going to be a beast and become our key man over the next couple of years IMO. Hendo, if he finds consistency and doesn't buckle under the pressure of being captain could be a key asset too but in terms of being able to grab a game by the scruff of it's neck and get us the killer pass or game changing moment, I'm not sure any of them will be able to. Lucas is a defensive player, he's boss at what he does but Allen is a nothing player IMO; he isn't particuarly good at defending, his passing isn't going to carve through a defence and he isn't going to find the net when we need him to either. He played well for a few games but against Swansea when he was being raved about by a fair few people as man of the match etc, I still didn't expect him to deliver against one of the competing teams around our end of the table and it was evident that he was lost against the Mancs, he was dominated and they were targeting him. He's a good player to add depth but he isn't going to win you a trophy. I have left out Tex on the basis that we don't really know how he will do as of yet.

We need to ship out a few bits of dead wood and get in another top quality striker that can get us goals on a regular basis, something only Sturridge can do at the moment. We need somebody in midfield that will be as effective as Gerrard was a few years ago and we need to strengthen at the back (in terms of Full Backs/Wing Backs) and in goal.

At the moment we have a lot of squad players IMO and no real spine to the team. If you look back a few years we had the lot; we had Pepe, Carra, Gerrard and Torres as the main spine of the team, with the like of Hyypia, Alonso, Masch and Kuyt all being deemed vital.
Last season we had the most lethal attack in the league with SAS.
This season I'm not sure what we could class as the spine that is full of quality. Sure we have Migs, Skrtel, Hendo, Coutinho and Sturridge but the Migs and Skrtel side of things worries me that they aren't a real spine, they are just better than what we could replace them in the starting line up with.

Potential wise we are right up there, we have Sakho, Moreno, Sterling, Ibe, Can and Markovic etc but at the moment they are still a fair way off being top class. You look at the team and think "Yeah, pretty much every team in the league would want Coutinho and Sturridge" but other than them I don't think we have anyone at this stage that could walk into basically any team in the world.

This summer it's vital that the owners provide money again and it's vital we get better results out of the resulting signings. It's time to start signing some established, top class players that will not only be of benefit to the strength of the team but also of benefit to helping the likes of Can, Sterling, Ibe, Markovic etc develop their game without the pressure of having the look of our key man already and the player we look to in order to get us out the sh*t.

1/2 empty or 1/2 full, guess it depends on the person.

Or their ambition. 

I think Can, Hendo, Lucas, Allen could handle mid-field duties as well as bringing Tex in to cover in cup matches.

I think me, you, Luke and 7KK7 could handle midfield duties on some level A-Zed.

Would we be able to deliver the league title; top 4; premier League survival? I doubt it. Then again I doubt if Can, Hendo, Lucas and Allen would deliver the title. It all depends how high you set your sights. Half full or half empty? Hmm...

I don't have any optimism that this off-season will yield any significant improvement. Right now there are two areas of optimism...the financial stability and the stadium improvements.

But those are getting offset by the lack of success on the pitch and with Sturridge out, no real alternatives other than Sterling, it's going to be a crapshoot to get 4th I'm afraid.

Sucks.

I don't have any optimism that this off-season will yield any significant improvement. Right now there are two areas of optimism...the financial stability and the stadium improvements.

But those are getting offset by the lack of success on the pitch and with Sturridge out, no real alternatives other than Sterling, it's going to be a crapshoot to get 4th I'm afraid.

Sucks.

I have to think that at some point even brilliant business minded owners (get money in your pocket regardless) will back the manager and I think the stadium improvements were partly paid by the past ownership or some legal contract sign off I haven't read into and now the council will help with a chunk. It should not hinder our spending in the Summer... we've got the squad fleshed out which needed to be done, now it's only minimal signings but quality though.
No excuses from the owners from now on. fairy tale stories have been contradicted already.

Remove the transfer committee, stop wasting money on potential players and start buying established world class players. They've told us enough times they can compete with any team for any player; it's time to see that in action.

Thing is though, they have started expanding Anfield. That's good. But I can't help thinking they now have a genuine excuse not to spend big money on one or two established world class players, and that we'll have to make do with £15m hopefuls here and there.

That said, if I think about it, it's not so much FSG won't spend big money, it's that someone somewhere behind the closed doors at Anfield, is royally messing up with the players being brought into the club.

FSG as a business with a football team, do not have an efficient business model. They are literally wasting millions of pounds buying sub standard players. Off the top of my head:

Carroll -£35m
Downing -£26m
Lovren -£20m
Markovic -£25m
Moreno -£16

To confound matters, they might be about to hand over £100,000+ a week to a 20 year old who isn't worth £60k a week right now. Far better to have used half that money as a wage increase for Suarez. That's what it takes if you want to keep your one genuine world class player.

It's insane, all of it. It has to stop.

A football club lives and dies, ultimately in the transfer market. Right now we've been slowly dying since the Carroll transfer window.

Suarez wanted to leave not because of the money, but because he wanted trophies, i think he would have refused even 300k/week in favour of joining Barcelona.

I'm sick of hearing how we can't compete financially with the City's and Chelsea's of this world, so we need to be smart with our money (Hollywood Balls PR man), well when exactly are we going to start being smart! FSG have been here long enough and haven't shown any indication that they are doing anything to get us back to the top again.

Suarez wanted to leave not because of the money, but because he wanted trophies, i think he would have refused even 300k/week in favour of joining Barcelona.

My main point was that with FSG, we'll never know

Massive rethink of their strategies are required in the Summer but I think that'll see the end of Brendan.  With all the criticism of our recruitment policy and the committee I think we'll see a DOF brought in alongside another rookie coach, rather than abolish the committee and keep Brendan.

I'm sick of hearing how we can't compete financially with the City's and Chelsea's of this world, so we need to be smart with our money (Hollywood Balls PR man), well when exactly are we going to start being smart! FSG have been here long enough and haven't shown any indication that they are doing anything to get us back to the top again.

In terms of strategy, they are different than the owners of Chelsea and City, also in terms of resources. I'll give FSG the benefit of the doubt because there first 3 seasons with them as owners the club was in a financial mess and they had to solve issues before investing. Now that we have made a bit of a profit, I'm hoping the owners will reinvest some of those retained earnings (instead of taking them all into their pockets) into increasing the wage budget so the club can attract better players (even if we aren't in the CL). In addition, FSG has given lots of money to the transfer committee and to Rodgers, so it's not their fault that the lower management decided to spend 20m on 19-20 year olds with ''potential'', when instead we could have signed good players to improve the team. The money was given, we squandered it on poor signings. The only thing FSG has done wrong is giving out a 5 year contract to Rodgers last season, I thought they should have waited until end of this season to know if last season wasn't just a one season wonder.

Remove the transfer committee, stop wasting money on potential players and start buying established world class players. They've told us enough times they can compete with any team for any player; it's time to see that in action.

Thing is though, they have started expanding Anfield. That's good. But I can't help thinking they now have a genuine excuse not to spend big money on one or two established world class players, and that we'll have to make do with £15m hopefuls here and there.

That said, if I think about it, it's not so much FSG won't spend big money, it's that someone somewhere behind the closed doors at Anfield, is royally messing up with the players being brought into the club.

FSG as a business with a football team, do not have an efficient business model. They are literally wasting millions of pounds buying sub standard players. Off the top of my head:

Carroll -£35m
Downing -£26m
Lovren -£20m
Markovic -£25m
Moreno -£16

To confound matters, they might be about to hand over £100,000+ a week to a 20 year old who isn't worth £60k a week right now. Far better to have used half that money as a wage increase for Suarez. That's what it takes if you want to keep your one genuine world class player.

It's insane, all of it. It has to stop.

A football club lives and dies, ultimately in the transfer market. Right now we've been slowly dying since the Carroll transfer window.

Non efficient business model? They have taken us out of the financial mess, we recorded a profit last year and our revenues grew, I'm sorry but to me that's an efficient business model.

Like I was saying above, it is not their fault that the money was spent on average players, that goes to down the management under them, and they should act more aggressively towards that.

Problems in the squad right now show that the problems at the club could be eradicated with the removal of the transfer committee.

The 115m or whatever it was has been truly pissed away. We had so many defensive problems last season and the 3 people we brought in were Manquillo, Moreno and Lovren and two of those haven't seen the first team in months and the other should have been left in Turkey or Switzerland or wherever when we were flying back from getting dumped out of Europe.

Spent 36m on 3 positions and still it is deemed that Glen Johnson, Kolo Toure and Jose Enrique are the stronger players in those positions.

Lallana, Markovic, Balotelli and Lambert are our other signings and which of those have lessened the impact of losing Suarez? Allan can't keep fit and the other 3 are plain sh*te.

Any structural change has to begin with these morons who bring in the players. And no that is not FSG - the sooner people realise the better.

I think we desperately need another mid fielder, who doesn't simply play, mostly ineffective neat little passes. Or someone who has great stamina, and runs and runs and runs for 90 mins.
But someone solid and commanding who bully the opposition and takes control of games. We desperately need some balls in the middle of the park. Can could be that player, but not while we seem to be so light in the quality centre back department, regardless of the money we've spent there. If we can get a player of that calibre (not suggesting who) and another decent striker, we would step up 1 level at least.

Don't think much has changed.  Really don't get this massive change/vision change thing. We get the best players we can in, and sometimes that means we get young players that will need moulding, training, time and patience.

Non efficient business model? They have taken us out of the financial mess, we recorded a profit last year and our revenues grew, I'm sorry but to me that's an efficient business model.

Like I was saying above, it is not their fault that the money was spent on average players, that goes to down the management under them, and they should act more aggressively towards that.

When you waste millions of pounds on average/poor players 3 seasons running, that's an inefficient business model. It's a waste of financial resources

Any structural change has to begin with these morons who bring in the players. And no that is not FSG - the sooner people realise the better.

But surely FSG gave the go ahead for this transfer committee. Surely after 3 seasons they have to see for themselves it ain't working. Surely they have to seeing as it's their money that's being wasted.

Get Rafa in as DoF and remove the transfer committee

When you waste millions of pounds on average/poor players 3 seasons running, that's an inefficient business model. It's a waste of financial resources

But that's not their fault. In the end they are backing the manager, the one who is wasting financial resources is the manager and the transfer committee. They are the ones to blame for the lack of ambition when they scout players like Danny Ings.

Put yourself as an owner of a company and you hired a Manager to oversee your sales department, wouldn't you back the manager to improve the sales department with funds, in return you see something positive? (hypothetical example). FSG are not stupid, they will demand their answers at the end of the season and they need to better at choosing better candidates to run their management. However, to blame them for our transfers is harsh, they have nothing to do with what happens in the transfers, they stuck with their strategy of having a transfer committee, you want to blame someone for that blame the committee and the manager.

But surely FSG gave the go ahead for this transfer committee. Surely after 3 seasons they have to see for themselves it ain't working. Surely they have to seeing as it's their money that's being wasted.

Get Rafa in as DoF and remove the transfer committee

It doesn't mean that the transfer committee isn't working, it means the people running the committee are incompetent when it comes to scouting, preparing the budget and choosing the right players.

But surely FSG gave the go ahead for this transfer committee. Surely after 3 seasons they have to see for themselves it ain't working. Surely they have to seeing as it's their money that's being wasted.

Get Rafa in as DoF and remove the transfer committee

You know what mate, from a business pov, I don't think they do see a problem with it. 

The tc was partly brought in in Brendans 1st season, the rest were added a summer later and so far they've made a profit on the only player they bought that's since been sold.  Not only that but they see a big profit being made on the likes of Coutinho, Sakho and possibly Studge, if he ever sorts his injuries out.

I've brought this up several times on these boards, they're prepared to take hits on the likes of Aspas, Alberto, Ilori etc as they were low risk cost wise but with a potentially big up side, the fact they might not make a profit on them doesn't matter as they're unlikely to show as a loss once amortisation is applied.  They "deal" in young potential in the same way they "deal" in other commoddities, buy low, give them 2-3 years to grow and mature, then sell on if there's no place for them in the squad.

The issues aren't with the young potential we're buying, it's the senior, experienced players that have let us down.  It's the quality of our scouting for the 25 years and older players that needs looking at, so maybe the computer software needs an upgrade for this age group.

As long as 4th is achieved every season FSG will be happy with this.

They are not interested in competing for the best players or trophies, just revenues.