NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

So, a -£7 million net spend, with the wage bills being slashed. Meanwhile, rivals above and below us have net spends that far outweigh us.

Is this Klopp being prudent (even for him with his experience at a cash-strapped Dortmund as opposed to profit making Premier League club, this is VERY VERY prudent)? Or either FSG are arrogant in their delusions that they can make substantial cut back and progress at the same time? Or they are either hoping for investment/selling up (in which case, Klopp must surely be informed on the financial status of the club)? This adds up if the news that they've been slashing sponsorship deals is correct.

Whatever it is, just what are FSG playing at?

Sorry mate, This is a football club first and foremost, business takes second place

Should read this is a business model first and foremost , the football is second. Now that's better if we all look at it that way this window will seem absolutely perfect .

I want an owner who is more like a fan than an owner - who wants to see us win games and will invest in order to realize that dream. Again, you are off your box if you think that Klopp would not have signed a lot more players had he been given the funds to do so - with a blank chequebook we all know that it would be a different team... 

Who is an example of this type of owner in world football today?

Sorry mate, but those players left due to FSG's lack of ambition. That's why Suarez was even willing to go to Arsenal to get out.
No one is questioning their ability to bring in money, they're obviously good businessmen, but if that doesn't translate onto the field they may as well not bother. This is a football club first and foremost, business takes second place.

And football clubs need a business model that works in order to be successful. Having a business plan isn't FSG's problem, having a shtie one is.

So, a -£7 million net spend, with the wage bills being slashed. Meanwhile, rivals above and below us have net spends that far outweigh us.

Is this Klopp being prudent (even for him with his experience at a cash-strapped Dortmund as opposed to profit making Premier League club, this is VERY VERY prudent)? Or either FSG are arrogant in their delusions that they can make substantial cut back and progress at the same time? Or they are either hoping for investment/selling up (in which case, Klopp must surely be informed on the financial status of the club)? This adds up if the news that they've been slashing sponsorship deals is correct.

Whatever it is, just what are FSG playing at?

This is Klopp trimming the squad down, and nothing to do with "trimming the wage bill".
It's easy to see when looking at who's gone, and who's come in.

He had money to spend, he chose not to spend it.
He has first and last choice of any transfers.
He just signed a new 6 year deal.

Looking only at how much we've spent, rather than where we have improved is the wrong way round, for me.

This is Klopp trimming the squad down, and nothing to do with "trimming the wage bill".
It's easy to see when looking at who's gone, and who's come in.

He had money to spend, he chose not to spend it.
He has first and last choice of any transfers.
He just signed a new 6 year deal.

Looking only at how much we've spent, rather than where we have improved is the wrong way round, for me.

I'm with you there, Swab.

This is Klopp trimming the squad down, and nothing to do with "trimming the wage bill".
It's easy to see when looking at who's gone, and who's come in.

He had money to spend, he chose not to spend it.
He has first and last choice of any transfers.
He just signed a new 6 year deal.

Looking only at how much we've spent, rather than where we have improved is the wrong way round, for me.

I don't doubt that, but until there's confirmation as to what is going on behind the scenes then you can't rule out any questioning, especially as we've been, allegedly, cutting sponsors.

I don't doubt that, but until there's confirmation as to what is going on behind the scenes then you can't rule out any questioning, especially as we've been, allegedly, cutting sponsors.

But people aren't questioning.
They are actively on a witch hunt.

Every bugger who is blaming FSG is doing it because they are too scared to blame Klopp.

I'm not blaming anyone, but that seems to be the favourite sport on here; "The Blame Game", and most of it is absolute nonsense.
I'm puzzled by the lack of cover at LB, but it's nothing to do with lack of money and everything to do with Klopp wanting the "right fit", but it's his job, not mine and there's sod all I can do about it, so I'm not about to start playing the blame game.

Same sh*t every year.
People don't get what they want (and never mind what the manager wants), and they start the same old sh*te again.

You look at the deadwood that Klopp has tried to shift on in this window and you soon realise that the negative net spend derives from a requirement to clear out the lack of quality in our squad. I can't think of any player who was sent packing which anyone on here really contested.

But people aren't questioning.
They are actively on a witch hunt.

Every bugger who is blaming FSG is doing it because they are too scared to blame Klopp.

I'm not blaming anyone, but that seems to be the favourite sport on here; "The Blame Game", and most of it is absolute nonsense.
I'm puzzled by the lack of cover at LB, but it's nothing to do with lack of money and everything to do with Klopp wanting the "right fit", but it's his job, not mine and there's sod all I can do about it, so I'm not about to start playing the blame game.

Same sh*t every year.
People don't get what they want (and never mind what the manager wants), and they start the same old sh*te again.

How much have we improved mate, and couldn't we have improved more? Why not sort out all the weak areas in this window if the money is there? CM and Left back could still do with improving. It would be crazy not to strengthen those areas just because prices have gotten crazy.
Jurgens born is to assemble the best team he can, its not his job to worry about money.

But people aren't questioning.
They are actively on a witch hunt.

Every bugger who is blaming FSG is doing it because they are too scared to blame Klopp.

I'm not blaming anyone, but that seems to be the favourite sport on here; "The Blame Game", and most of it is absolute nonsense.
I'm puzzled by the lack of cover at LB, but it's nothing to do with lack of money and everything to do with Klopp wanting the "right fit", but it's his job, not mine and there's sod all I can do about it, so I'm not about to start playing the blame game.

Same sh*t every year.
People don't get what they want (and never mind what the manager wants), and they start the same old sh*te again.

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just wondering whether there's legitimate reasons to suggest that FSG are putting the 'for sale' signs up. Though, in fairness, your assessment is most probably spot on.

Likewise, I'd prefer a left back but if Klopp can't find one that is a perfect fit, then I wouldn't want us to waste money on it - far too many times in the last number of years we've made panic buys just to fill a position on the field. No need for a panic buy - I do believe Moreno isn't beyond redemption and if he works hard on the training field, I honestly think he can improve. Milner, for all intents and purposes, isn't the long term solution for Klopp as everyone knows anyway but who are we to say that he doesn't have a long term plan anyhow? The deselection of Moreno doesn't mean the end of his career here - rather it is what Klopp said in his interview with Gary Lineker: If you get dropped, then you need to improve to get back into the team. He'll work hard on Moreno no doubt.

How much have we improved mate, and couldn't we have improved more? Why not sort out all the weak areas in this window if the money is there? CM and Left back could still do with improving. It would be crazy not to strengthen those areas just because prices have gotten crazy.
Jurgens born is to assemble the best team he can, its not his job to worry about money.

Why does CM need improving?
Allen went out, Wijnaldum and Grujic came in, and we still have Can to come back as well as Lucas.

LB is a puzzle, but Klopp said he wants "the right fit".

It might not be his job to worry about money, but he stated very clearly that he won't buy for the sake of buying.
He'll only buy to improve the team, and this is just the first step towards that.

How much have we improved mate, and couldn't we have improved more? Why not sort out all the weak areas in this window if the money is there? CM and Left back could still do with improving. It would be crazy not to strengthen those areas just because prices have gotten crazy.
Jurgens born is to assemble the best team he can, its not his job to worry about money.

Do we really need a CM? Considering that injuries (Can) and adapting to the squad (Grujic) are still to be overcome, why splash out on a position that could be filled quite easy when the squad is up and running.

And even though some slate Wijnaldum, is it not worth considering that Spurs - with one of the most bullish and aggressive midfields in the league - didn't overawe our midfield on Saturday. It helps when many players track back relentlessly, but it's worht noting that we weren't outpace and dominated like we were at times under Brendan.

I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just wondering whether there's legitimate reasons to suggest that FSG are putting the 'for sale' signs up. Though, in fairness, your assessment is most probably spot on.

Likewise, I'd prefer a left back but if Klopp can't find one that is a perfect fit, then I wouldn't want us to waste money on it - far too many times in the last number of years we've made panic buys just to fill a position on the field. No need for a panic buy - I do believe Moreno isn't beyond redemption and if he works hard on the training field, I honestly think he can improve. Milner, for all intents and purposes, isn't the long term solution for Klopp as everyone knows anyway but who are we to say that he doesn't have a long term plan anyhow? The deselection of Moreno doesn't mean the end of his career here - rather it is what Klopp said in his interview with Gary Lineker: If you get dropped, then you need to improve to get back into the team. He'll work hard on Moreno no doubt.

Not saying you were blaming anyone, so apologies if it came across that way.
I doubt very much FSG are selling up, although a minority stake might be on the cards, along with naming rights for the "new" stand.

The thing about Moreno is, he creates shitloads, but he's not a natural defender.
When everyone was raving about him on the basis of one goal scored against Spurs, I said the same thing.
I don't know if he can be improved, but that's Klopp's job, and he has a pretty good record.

If the owners were any good they would be paying for the renovation out of own pocket. The would cash in some of the equity and pay for it .

They have invested £240 million. The club is said to be worth around a billion, lets just say its worth £800 million, they could sell 12.5% and pay for the new stand and still make a profit of £460 million.
 
Some have said they want £1.4 billion ?

If its worth £1.4 billion they could pay for the stand and still make over a billion in profit

But no, they are taking money from the club to pay for the stand. They would rather have another £100 million for the NESV share holders than give us an opportunity to compete with the top clubs.

If they cared about the football team the least they would do is pay for the new stand !

If the owners were any good they would be paying for the renovation out of own pocket. The would cash in some of the equity and pay for it .

But no, they are taking money from the club to pay for the stand. They would rather have another £100 million for the NESV share holders than give us an opportunity to compete with the top clubs.

If they cared about the football team the least they would do is pay for the new stand !

Hey sunshine, guess what? They did.

Interest-free loan from FSG to cover the cost of the stadium upgrade.

I'm going to even do the research for you:

There's this one

And this one

And also this one, for good measure

I'll also add, we did indeed make £70m in sales. But who left? Anyone important? Every single one of them was someone Klopp didn't want and we replaced them with someone he did want (except Brad Smith).

We kept all our important players, added to them with players Jürgen wants but hey ho...what does that matter?

Hey sunshine, guess what? They did.

Interest-free loan from FSG to cover the cost of the stadium upgrade.

I'm going to even do the research for you:

There's this one

And this one

And also this one, for good measure

The dosh they make on the name of LFC would cover immeasurably the interest on the loan, not forgoing the anticipated profits of more arses on seats to watch the mid-table football FSG think is an acceptable level for their 'asset'.

The dosh they make on the name of LFC would cover immeasurably the interest on the loan, not forgoing the anticipated profits of more arses on seats to watch the mid-table football FSG think is an acceptable level for their 'asset'.

Ok, stuey, what should they do then?

Get a loan against the club and cover it that way which = fans outrage.

Cover the money themselves = fan outrage because "we are LFC and we make money anyway."

What are the other options...? Not do anything at all? Tear down Anfield and rebuild?

What's your alternative?

Makes me laugh the number of people frantically searching for a reason not to blame Klopp because they are unhappy with our net spend and the transfer window.

I dislike FSG as much as the next man, but they have brought in a manager who fits their philosophy (a penny saved is a penny earned), who has said that the money was there if he wanted to use it. The buck stops with Klopp this season for me.   


   

Ok, stuey, what should they do then?

Get a loan against the club and cover it that way which = fans outrage.

What's your alternative?

Show their faith and commitment to the club.
 They know full well LFC is a robust financial prospect and while to us mere mortals the cost of extending Anfield is a prohibitive amount of money, in the wider context and as part of a general rebuilding strategy that particular expense should have been taken on by the owners.

Just imagine if that money had been put to better use in the player side of things/ football related improvement, just another aspect of soccer common sense our owners fail to confront, financial convenience on their part?

Hey sunshine, guess what? They did.

Interest-free loan from FSG to cover the cost of the stadium upgrade.

I'm going to even do the research for you:

There's this one

And this one

And also this one, for good measure

I'll also add, we did indeed make £70m in sales. But who left? Anyone important? Every single one of them was someone Klopp didn't want and we replaced them with someone he did want (except Brad Smith).

We kept all our important players, added to them with players Jürgen wants but hey ho...what does that matter?

Its a loan !

we pay them back, we pay for the new stand.

Don't you think it would be fair for them to invest some money ? especially when you look at how much there initial investment gone up. They are sitting on a profit anywhere from £540 million to possibly over a billion pounds.

 

Its a loan !

we pay them back, we pay for the new stand.

Don't you think it would be fair for them to invest some money ? especially when you look at how much there initial investment gone up. They are sitting on a profit anywhere from £540 million to possibly over a billion pounds.

Haha what?

This whole idea is to make more money from match-days and increase capacity to be competitive with our rivals. The initial investment will return a profit through increase £££ on match-days. That profit goes back to the owners in one way or another. Whether it is a "loan", "investment" or "payment" the increased revenue as a result of the upgrade is going back to the owners regardless.

The key point is, they put the money up themselves and saved tens of millions in doing so.

Are you criticising this strategy of investing their own money and saving a significant sum of money?

Show their faith and commitment to the club.
 They know full well LFC is a robust financial prospect and while to us mere mortals the cost of extending Anfield is a prohibitive amount of money, in the wider context and as part of a general rebuilding strategy that particular expense should have been taken on by the owners.

Just imagine if that money had been put to better use in the player side of things/ football related improvement, just another aspect of soccer common sense our owners fail to confront, financial convenience on their part?

Again, what would you have done?

They wrote off £59m from the H&G failed plans and added £120m from their own pocket to pay for the upgrade.

What would you have done that is different to this? What do you think is a better solution for the club than this?

Its a loan !

we pay them back, we pay for the new stand.

Don't you think it would be fair for them to invest some money ? especially when you look at how much there initial investment gone up. They are sitting on a profit anywhere from £540 million to possibly over a billion pounds.

 

Could be wrong but isn't every bit of money that an owner puts into a football club an interest free loan? Pretty sure Chelsea were in debt to Abramovich before he wrote it off. Its not to say FSG are going to write it off, but I think it's wrong to disparage them because it's an interest free loan when thats exactly how all owners put their money into a club...