NESV/Fenway Sports Group: Owners of LFC

Two things.

The owners hired a manager to work in their system.

Also it's the club who identify players and Jürgen works with them.

The owners hired managers before Klopp who failed to achieve and who posed no threat to the leaders.

Klopp has an affinity with LFC and could have joined any club in the world.

Edit:  Genius needs no assistants.

The owners hired managers before Klopp who failed to achieve and who posed no threat to the leaders.

Who are these leaders? Are they within the club or are they rival clubs?

Also you're saying that as though we had 20 years of FSG mediocrity before Klopp was hired. They came in midway through a season, sacked Hodgson, which was the right thing to do. Hired Kenny as an interim to steady the ship, which was the right thing to do. Then, after Kenny took us from languishing near the bottom of the table to challenging for a top 4 spot they basically had no choice but to hire him. The 3 year Rodgers era probably stagnated us a bit but even still, we came within a whisker of winning a league title. If Gerrard hadn't have slipped I don't think anybody would have talked about Rodgers as being a bad appointment, no matter what happened post 2014.

They obviously made on-field mistakes in the early days but the whole concept of running a football club was new to them. Now, as successful owners you'd expect them to know the ropes a lot better than they did in 2011

Klopp has an affinity with LFC and could have joined any club in the world.

That's right to an extent but he didn't just join us for romantic reasons. He would have had the structure of the club explained to him in detail and thought it was a sufficient model for achieving success. He wouldn't have put his career at risk unless he was confident that the people at the top and everybody else involved in the project were up to the job. If he thought he'd have to work literal miracles I'm pretty certain he wouldn't have bothered, as the risk would have massively outweighed the reward

If Gerrard hadn't have slipped I don't think anybody would have talked about Rodgers as being a bad appointment, no matter what happened post 2014.

In fairness it wasn’t the slip that cost us the title, the way we approached that game and set up for it was wrong from the start. We were naive and played right into Jose’s hands. We were going to lose that game with or without the slip IMO, Jose gave Rodgers a lesson in tactics that day. Also FWIW, I still maintain that Migs could and should have done much better in that situation.

In fairness it wasn’t the slip that cost us the title, the way we approached that game and set up for it was wrong from the start. We were naive and played right into Jose’s hands. We were going to lose that game with or without the slip IMO, Jose gave Rodgers a lesson in tactics that day. Also FWIW, I still maintain that Migs could and should have done much better in that situation.

Yeah, I didn't actually mean that to be honest, it was more to emphasize the point of how close we actually came. Were so many small moments that season which could have tipped the balance for us - Allen's miss in the derby, Toure's brainfart against West Brom etc

Although I don't think we'd have lost the game with or without the slip to be fair - Chelsea didn't even look interested in scoring until Ba was given that chance on a plate. They had their B team out if I remember due to a Champions League semi a few days later, so they set up on that day just to not get embarrassed by a free-scoring Liverpool side, I don't think they had any real intention of winning the game

Who are these leaders? Are they within the club or are they rival clubs?

Dominating rival club/clubs.

Also you're saying that as though we had 20 years of FSG mediocrity before Klopp was hired. They came in midway through a season, sacked Hodgson, which was the right thing to do. Hired Kenny as an interim to steady the ship, which was the right thing to do. Then, after Kenny took us from languishing near the bottom of the table to challenging for a top 4 spot they basically had no choice but to hire him. The 3 year Rodgers era probably stagnated us a bit but even still, we came within a whisker of winning a league title. If Gerrard hadn't have slipped I don't think anybody would have talked about Rodgers as being a bad appointment, no matter what happened post 2014.

The fact remains previous FSG appointments were an abject failure, for whatever reason the managerial selection process with FSG was flawed pre-Klopp, again pointing to a particular genius that from previous experience the owners had no capability of recognising.

They obviously made on-field mistakes in the early days but the whole concept of running a football club was new to them. Now, as successful owners you'd expect them to know the ropes a lot better than they did in 2011

That's right to an extent but he didn't just join us for romantic reasons. He would have had the structure of the club explained to him in detail and thought it was a sufficient model for achieving success. He wouldn't have put his career at risk unless he was confident that the people at the top and everybody else involved in the project were up to the job. If he thought he'd have to work literal miracles I'm pretty certain he wouldn't have bothered, as the risk would have massively outweighed the reward

Klopp knew he had the capability to restore LFC to former glories and no doubt relished the challenge.

Glad this was posted, it explains to us mere mortals how well the club’s being run as opposed to other’s, just because other’s are spending Mi££ions it doesn’t mean we have to, Jürgen is a builder, he also likes to use what he has at his disposal and that includes developing from within,

He is the best gaffer on the planet, he knows what he is doing, cannot argue otherwise, the proof is happening right in front of our very eyes, the successes we’ve had thus far reinforces this, back to back CL Finals, winning one, super cup victory, club World Cup winners, and of course the holy grail after 30 long years, he’s managed all this on a relatively shoestring budget, compered to what the likes of City, MUtants, Chavs, Spuds & the Arse have spunked over the last few years,

There will come a time where he may well need to spend a few million to get what he wants, FSG won’t stand in his way when this eventuality occurs, we have seen that already with the arrival of Ali & Virgil albeit from the coutinho sale, as for the long term, I think we will be fine, even if FSG sold up, they would be leaving us in good health, amen to that!



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well said billy.

The fact remains previous FSG appointments were an abject failure, for whatever reason the managerial selection process with FSG was flawed pre-Klopp, again pointing to a particular genius that from previous experience the owners had no capability of recognising.

I think there was only one real incorrect appointment FSG made pre-Klopp and that was Rodgers. Fair enough, he wasn't the right man for the job but that's one appointment. Other owners can make several wrong appointments in a season, never mind over the course of a decade.

In my opinion Kenny was a good appointment, he was brought in halfway through the season when we were 5 points off the bottom and had us challenging for a Champions League place come May. He then got got us to two finals the following season, one of which he won. Of course we don't even need to go into whether Klopp was a success or not, but I make that 2 good managerial appointments v 1 not so good managerial appointment in a 10 year period. Hardly something to beat them with a stick about is it?

Klopp knew he had the capability to restore LFC to former glories and no doubt relished the challenge.

He did but he would have also no doubt been attracted by the model the club had in place & believed it would help him achieve that success. He also turned down the United job a year before that, which probably had something to do with the mechanisms they had in place at the club

Although I don't think we'd have lost the game with or without the slip to be fair - Chelsea didn't even look interested in scoring until Ba was given that chance on a plate. They had their B team out if I remember due to a Champions League semi a few days later, so they set up on that day just to not get embarrassed by a free-scoring Liverpool side, I don't think they had any real intention of winning the game

They didn’t need to look interested in scoring. They knew we were going to go at them all guns blazing because it’s the only way we could play due to our defence being so bad. Jose has made his managerial career out of having his team sit back, absorb the pressure and then take advantage of any lapses in concentration and the defence we had back then, the shocking amount of goals we would concede, he knew that at some point in the game they would get a couple of chances and that’s exactly what happened. All they had to do was ride out any pressure on their defence and be clinical at the other end. The amount of goals we were conceding, it was obvious Chelsea were going to score in that game but we played right into their hands. Everybody knew how Chelsea were going to play that day but for some reason we decided to go into that game and try to blitz them. Back then Jose’s tactics worked so often, now he can’t get away with it though.

The owners hired managers before Klopp who failed to achieve and who posed no threat to the leaders.

Klopp has an affinity with LFC and could have joined any club in the world.

Edit:  Genius needs no assistants.

Nonsense.

I'm 100% sure I recall Jürgen saying he needs help and cannot do it all by himself when he first arrived here.

He's not so arrogant to think he is a genius and can do everything himself. He also said he cannot understand the obsession with transfers within football and that he lets those above him get on with it while he coaches his players.

He obviously has massive input when we do identify players but if you think he spends his time looking for new players I think you're mistaken.

Nonsense.

I'm 100% sure I recall Jürgen saying he needs help and cannot do it all by himself when he first arrived here.

He's not so arrogant to think he is a genius and can do everything himself. He also said he cannot understand the obsession with transfers within football and that he lets those above him get on with it while he coaches his players.

He obviously has massive input when we do identify players but if you think he spends his time looking for new players I think you're mistaken.

I've said it before, their "new model" transfer policy of identifying players who fit by using analytics has proven to be a masterstroke.
It had a few teething problems, and didn't work particularly well with BR, who it seems had a tendency to pull in the other direction, but with a manager who actually listens it works very well indeed.

I've often thought the English model of the manager making all the transfer decisions is outdated.
It was fine back in the old days, when scouts toured the country looking for talent, but there's so much more work involved now.

It's still a collective working together, with the manager having the last word, but the days of him drawing up his own lists are thankfully long gone.

They didn’t need to look interested in scoring. They knew we were going to go at them all guns blazing because it’s the only way we could play due to our defence being so bad. Jose has made his managerial career out of having his team sit back, absorb the pressure and then take advantage of any lapses in concentration and the defence we had back then, the shocking amount of goals we would concede, he knew that at some point in the game they would get a couple of chances and that’s exactly what happened. All they had to do was ride out any pressure on their defence and be clinical at the other end. The amount of goals we were conceding, it was obvious Chelsea were going to score in that game but we played right into their hands. Everybody knew how Chelsea were going to play that day but for some reason we decided to go into that game and try to blitz them. Back then Jose’s tactics worked so often, now he can’t get away with it though.

Completely get what you're saying but when you play that sort of football you're usually banking on getting that one chance and capitalizing. In that game, the slip was that one chance. That's not to say they wouldn't have been gifted another, but even then you need the stars to align so that you've got the right person on the end of it who is clinical enough to put it into the net, which they unfortunately did when Gerrard gifted it to Ba.

Still have trouble wrapping my head around the whole thing to be honest. The fact that it was Gerrard, against Chelsea & Mourinho. The fact that a couple of weeks prior he literally told everybody that it doesn't "slip"

I know it's a very cliche saying but you genuinely couldn't write it.

Nonsense.

I'm 100% sure I recall Jürgen saying he needs help and cannot do it all by himself when he first arrived here.

He's not so arrogant to think he is a genius and can do everything himself. He also said he cannot understand the obsession with transfers within football and that he lets those above him get on with it while he coaches his players.

He obviously has massive input when we do identify players but if you think he spends his time looking for new players I think you're mistaken.

Everything I posted is true and to be fair has quelled the rampant ownership displeasure that prevailed before Klopp’s arrival.

I've said it before, their "new model" transfer policy of identifying players who fit by using analytics has proven to be a masterstroke.

That's one way of looking at it.

Another is spending £75M on the world's best CB and then £80M on the world's best goalkeeper also might have helped make the difference.

Remember when Brendan Rodgers was called a fsg yes man by some on here for the crime of going along with the owners methods, amazingly Jürgen hasn't had that honour yet.

That's one way of looking at it.

Another is spending £75M on the world's best CB and then £80M on the world's best goalkeeper also might have helped make the difference.

Think Alisson was £60M, not 80

No doubt they were expensive players but at the time we signed them neither were the best in the world, we were universally laughed at for paying that much for Van Dijk at first. Even some of our own supporters were raising eyebrows

Who's to say that if we weren't so robust on the analytical side that we could have possibly spent that £75M on Maguire instead, or spent the Alisson money on Kepa

I think there was only one real incorrect appointment FSG made pre-Klopp and that was Rodgers. Fair enough, he wasn't the right man for the job but that's one appointment. Other owners can make several wrong appointments in a season, never mind over the course of a decade.

In my opinion Kenny was a good appointment, he was brought in halfway through the season when we were 5 points off the bottom and had us challenging for a Champions League place come May. He then got got us to two finals the following season, one of which he won. Of course we don't even need to go into whether Klopp was a success or not, but I make that 2 good managerial appointments v 1 not so good managerial appointment in a 10 year period. Hardly something to beat them with a stick about is it?

He did but he would have also no doubt been attracted by the model the club had in place & believed it would help him achieve that success. He also turned down the United job a year before that, which probably had something to do with the mechanisms they had in place at the club

Irrespective the rampant displeasure with the incumbents  pre-Klopp has dissipated not by any massive change in operating procedures but by the genius of Klopp!

It baffles why FSG are allowed to bask in the glory of a highly successful business exercise which is solely down to the expertise and work of Jürgen Klopp.

It baffles why FSG are allowed to bask in the glory of a highly successful business exercise which is solely down to the expertise and work of Jürgen Klopp.

Bask in the glory


I don't go out of my way to credit them as for me they are only doing what they are supposed to do.

But you not recognising that we only have Jürgen because they choose to appoint him is stupid. He can't just appoint himself and come and manager the club.

The owners have got to a point where they have the coach who works best with their way of working and a coach who totally buys into how they work.

Irrespective the rampant displeasure with the incumbents  pre-Klopp has dissipated not by any massive change in operating procedures but by the genius of Klopp!

I'm not disputing that our recent success is by and large down to Klopp. What I was disputing was that FSG were / are "abject failures" when it comes to managerial appointments when in my opinion, they've only made one poor appointment in a decade, out of a total of 3. Hardly Cellino at Leeds is it?

It baffles why FSG are allowed to bask in the glory of a highly successful business exercise which is solely down to the expertise and work of Jürgen Klopp.

They're not though, are they? I've not came across one red (in real life or online) who thinks that our recent success isn't at least 95% down to Jürgen Klopp. It's called giving credit where credit's due, which is something which you seem to struggle with as you've lambasted their hiring & selection ability on the basis of one appointment which they made 8 years ago, when to be fair to them, the only other viable options at that time were Roberto Martinez & Andre Villas Boas

 

I'm not disputing that our recent success is by and large down to Klopp. What I was disputing was that FSG were / are "abject failures" when it comes to managerial appointments when in my opinion, they've only made one poor appointment in a decade, out of a total of 3. Hardly Cellino at Leeds is it?


They're not though, are they? I've not came across one red (in real life or online) who thinks that our recent success isn't at least 95% down to Jürgen Klopp. It's called giving credit where credit's due, which is something which you seem to struggle with as you've lambasted their hiring & selection ability on the basis of one appointment which they made 8 years ago, when to be fair to them, the only other viable options at that time were Roberto Martinez & Andre Villas Boas

 

Yep. And appointing Brendan was not the huge failure Stuey makes it out to have been.

Appointing a young up and coming coach who develops players was in theory a good move and almost, almost paid off.

Brendan lost his way a little and also was probably a little proud and naive at times which was his main downfall. He wasn't confident enough in himself to work with the transfer people and too much resistance meant it was always going to end badly for him.

Yep. And appointing Brendan was not the huge failure Stuey makes it out to have been.

Appointing a young up and coming coach who develops players was in theory a good move and almost, almost paid off.

Brendan lost his way a little and also was probably a little proud and naive at times which was his main downfall. He wasn't confident enough in himself to work with the transfer people and too much resistance meant it was always going to end badly for him.

Without them plucking some random genius out of nowhere it's hard to see who else they could have hired. Can't imagine AVB, Martinez or Paul Lambert would have brought us much success either

Without them plucking some random genius out of nowhere it's hard to see who else they could have hired. Can't imagine AVB, Martinez or Paul Lambert would have brought us much success either

To be honest I'm not sure it was a lack of options at the time more that they wanted to go down a particular route with a young up and coming coach who works with young players and develops a team.

If Brendan had a bit more confidence to accept the role those in charge of transfers had and wasn't working against them at times who knows how it could have ended up for him.

At the end the job was probably a bit too early for him and maybe even too big for him in general but a win away from the league title is hardly the abject failure Stuey thinks it is no matter how many times he says it.

I'm not disputing that our recent success is by and large down to Klopp. What I was disputing was that FSG were / are "abject failures" when it comes to managerial appointments when in my opinion, they've only made one poor appointment in a decade, out of a total of 3. Hardly Cellino at Leeds is it?

A considerable number would disagree with your sentiments before the arrival of Klopp when there were protests in and out of Anfield with boycotting games being called for.

They're not though, are they? I've not came across one red (in real life or online) who thinks that our recent success isn't at least 95% down to Jürgen Klopp. It's called giving credit where credit's due, which is something which you seem to struggle with as you've lambasted their hiring & selection ability on the basis of one appointment which they made 8 years ago, when to be fair to them, the only other viable options at that time were Roberto Martinez & Andre Villas Boas
 

Comment about the owner’s conduct pre-Klopp is hardly “lambasting” them over “one appointment”, it does seem you are creating distracting agendas.

A considerable number would disagree with your sentiments before the arrival of Klopp when there were protests in and out of Anfield with boycotting games being called for.

I only remember two actual protests, both were to do with ticket prices and had nothing to do with football on the pitch - Sunderland at home and Hull Away
There might have been a few clowns calling for games to be boycotted but there certainly wasn't anything en masse. Nothing like it was under Hodgson - the ground was full every week and could have been twice over, so you may be rewriting history a bit there

Comment about the owner’s conduct pre-Klopp is hardly “lambasting” them over “one appointment”, it does seem you are creating distracting agendas.

I'm not at all. A lot of your argument was based around prior managerial appointments