How much time should Rafa have been given?

Houllier was given time and most importantley the backing of finances and failed to deliver the epl and cl, benitez on the other hand worked under constraints and delivered the cl and almost the leauge.

The man has been ripped to shreds in the media by former liverpool greats, everything is his fault, he was even compared to being as bad as H&G. His transfer dealings have been scrutinized from head to toe, and he blamed for everything under the sun from shutting Kenny out of anfield, from getting rid of Alonso, from losing us the title, to the financial state of the club, from wasting millions and millions of pounds to us being 19 in the league a couple of weeks ago. All by various so called pundits and by the current manager.

Yes he comes out with a simple statement to say to the current manager that he should be concentrating on his own team and whatever and Rafa is "Making Mischief"

The Alonso story is a massive red herring in my mind - while well loved and ultimately well remembered his time has been subject to as much revisionism as Benitez's own. He had poor seasons and no doubt was never going to be a ten year man for us. The call of home was always going to win at some point, especially after a good season.

His time here will be ultimately looked back on as successful if you look beyond the press reporting and look at where he took us from and to. We made a mistake getting rid of him this Summer, a mistake we will see in greater relief even if Hodgson gets an extended go and a warchest.

I'm sorry but I am sick of people jumping on the Rafa bandwagon.

All aboard! Rafa will lead us to the promised land

I’d like to put an outsiders opinion on here, my friend is a Bluenose and we have been having this same convo over emails at work for a while now.  He’s what he put, im not saying I agree with it, but disect it if you like.

...etc etc...

I tell you one thing mate, the EPL misses Rafa like we miss Jose, pure comedy factor.”

i'll echo srslfc's sentiments above. you bluenose mate is coming out with ridicilous anti-rafa rants typical of most bluenoses and manc sh*tes.

1 - rafa was sick of not seing young talent coming through the ranks HENCE as part of his contract negotiations, he demanded be given full control of it. he then proceeded to rebuild it. your mate is factually wrong (sorry, not attacking, just stating)

2 - of course we owe a lot to gerrard and hamman, like we owe a lot to carra's defending, dudek's saves, alonso and smicer's goals...please, get a grip, we a lot to the whole team, a team that was put out, instructed and managed by rafa. nobody's denying the shambles of the first half, but to say it was owed to a couple of players and a lot of fluke is short sighted to say the least. another champs league final, 2 semi finals and a quarter final, plus and fa cup win and a 2nd place finish in 5 seasons....is no fluke. if your mate is attacking rafa's abilities as a manager, he should at least come up with a good reason.

3 - you mate remembers a game when whiskey nose just demanded his team win? great, and what was his point again? you think the team won because whiskey nose said 'win'? again, he needs to get a grip.

4 - no doubt some of us are fascinated by rafa, but remember that a lot of us respect him for what he achieved here. the trophies, the glorious european nights, for standing up against whiskey nosed c**t, for connecting with the fans (remember when a football team was about the fans more than about the players or manager? think shankly believed in this) and for giving lfc it's pride and joy back.

5 - he was ridiculed and hounded by the media. i honestly cannot remember another manager who was as villified as rafa was. some say it's inexplicable, some merely say whiskey nose has his fist up the media's ass...who knows.

i was a rafa fan and i will always have a healthy debate with those who were not if they can carry out a debate based on facts or well rounded views, we're all entitled to our opinions but boy do some people come up with bull.

perhaps your mate's bitter about rafa's record against them in league. played 12, won 8, drew 2 lost 2

Rafael Benitez

2004/05 net spend: £16.5m
2005/06 net spend: £12.73m
2006/07 net spend: £17m
2007/08 net spend: £34m
2008/09 net spend: £2.5m
2009/10 net spend: minus £6.10m

Now everyone look at Rafa's net spends from start to finish, what you will notice under Morres & Parry with steady conservative investment we progressed little by little year by year, H&G arrived pumped some significant money into teh club in the 07/08 season but the following two years come on people a £2.5m net spend and a minus £6.10m net spend is no were near good enough for a club with League and European ambitions.

The facts are there when there was investment in the squad we progressed, when there was no investment the rot started to kick in.

Now I'm gona play a little game here in the 08/09 season we lost £250,000 – Paul Anderson, Free – Jermaine Pennant, Free – Miki Roque, £3m – Sebastian Leto, £3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa., £30m – Xabi Alonso that was £36.75m worth of talent.

People will argue this was the crucial transfer window and Rafa fu**ed it up buying both Jonson and Aquilani and not replacing Alonso.

So we pay 17.5m for Johnson and £17.1m for Aquilani and then £2m for Sotis thats £36.6m if you add Ayala to that list at £160,000 it looks pretty damning on Rafa no ?

But step back Pompey owed us £8m from the Crouch deal and we only paid £5m down payment on Aquilani, Rafa had to settle for Sotis as the board wouldn't release the money for Ryan Shawcross or Gareth Barry, so tell me where did te rest of the money generated from transfers dissapear to ?, given that we initially only payed out £16.5m from the £36.6m that we had generated in sales and what of £20m transfer budget Purslow said we had spent, pretty damning reading on the boards part if you ask me.

Rafa never fu**ed that transfer window up buying Aquilani or Johnson most notably Aquilani he got the best deal he could for an initial down payment for £5m, tell me who was going to buy for £5m to replace a players of Alonso's ability ?

Lets be honest here Rafa signed Aquilani for 5 years not for one season, we were all aware he was injured, we all hoped Lucas could fill the void left by Alonso, it did not happen but te team were struggling to adapt, Alsonso was a huge loss, however Lucas seems to be bearing the fruits of last years endevours.

So where did the rest of the money recouped from trasnsfers go what happened to our transfer budget in Rafa's last two seasons ?, some people are talking about a 5 year plan, well I'd argue what kind of 5 year plan would involve selling your best players with holding money from their sales as well as withholding any form of transfer budget thus making the manager opearte on a net profit ?

Rafa put us back on the map we were consistently in the top 4 and the Champions league ranked number 1 club in Europe at one point won the F.A cup, Champions league, second Champions league final and led us to our 3rd ever ighest points tally when finishing second.

He done all this on a moderate budget whilst clubs like Man United & Chelsea were throwing money round nilly willy even Man City got in on that game, people will surely throw up Wegner but lets be realistic here, check out Wegner vs Rafa side by side in the 6 years Rafa was on English soil, in terms of silverware, Rafa was the most succesfull manager.

The point of this post proves onething, with moderate investment we steadily progressed year up on year so for that reason knowing new owners were eventually coming in, Rafa should have been kept as under owners like NESV Rafa would surely have taken us up another level.

But don't let Facht's cloud your judgment no ?

perhaps your mate's bitter about rafa's record against them in league. played 12, won 8, drew 2 lost 2

Unfortunately he isn’t a bitter.  He is one of the brightest football people I know.  He’s a true stato who gives credit where it’s due whatever the game, result or team.  He’s great for an argument as he knows a lot about every team in the premier league.

I think he does have ONE point, Rafa did pay less attention to the youth and that did annoy me during his time here.

I'll echo srslfc's sentiments above. you bluenose mate is coming out with ridicilous anti-rafa rants typical of most bluenoses and manc sh*tes.

3 - you mate remembers a game when whiskey nose just demanded his team win? great, and what was his point again? you think the team won because whiskey nose said 'win'? again, he needs to get a grip.



 

5 - he was ridiculed and hounded by the media. I honestly cannot remember another manager who was as villified as rafa was. some say it's inexplicable, some merely say whiskey nose has his fist up the media's ass...who knows.

maybe just saying  "win" and then walking away  was a masterstroke...... because the players minds were not filled with tactics and all they had to think about was winning. 

or

maybe he had an attack of the african bum squirts and did not have the time at hand to elaborate on how he wanted them to play to achieve the win.   

I think Rafa was villified by the English press because of typical English racist views. They painted a picture of a fat Spanish waiter and could not accept the fact that someone of this stereotype could be successful in England.

Nowadays he has become an amazing philosopher and talks of

 white liquid in a bottle and milk........ and they are seeing him more as a confucious type.

Rafa says ......."man who stand in bathroom with hand on tool not necessarily plumber"

Unfortunately he isn’t a bitter.  He is one of the brightest football people I know.  He’s a true stato who gives credit where it’s due whatever the game, result or team.  He’s great for an argument as he knows a lot about every team in the premier league.

I think he does have ONE point, Rafa did pay less attention to the youth and that did annoy me during his time here.

And our youth at that moment maybe just wasn't good enough! The youth system needed an overhaul and Rafa made that happen. He just hadn't been given time to reap the fruits of it!

Houllier was given time and most importantley the backing of finances and failed to deliver the epl and cl, benitez on the other hand worked under constraints and delivered the cl and almost the leauge.

He delivered the CL when we had 'no financial constraints'. Granted he did will in the one year he finished second while working under constraints but lets not cloud matters and make out he had difficulty with the board in 2005.

If you know your History...then a bitter is always a bitter to even consider taking onboard his opinion is ludicrous. Dont you trust the people on here to be honest and pragmatic have you not been aware of what Rafa had to deal with Off the field.
Today far too many people read the crap that is our newspaper media without even considering what slant they are putting on it. Liverpool sells papers so slagging of Rafa helped their circulation. Very few journo's write without an agenda and becuase Rafa didn't endear himself to them they took evey opportunity to have a dig at him usually subtly but never the less it was constant.
Why would the current Serie A and Champions league holders employ him so readily because he is the only manager who could have filled Maureens boots.They didnt come looking for Roy did they.

Do you think inhis 5 year plan after 2 years he would want a pair of cu*ts like H+G to take over and starve him of funds and go behind his back trying to replace him.

Rafael Benitez

2004/05 net spend: £16.5m
2005/06 net spend: £12.73m
2006/07 net spend: £17m
2007/08 net spend: £34m
2008/09 net spend: £2.5m
2009/10 net spend: minus £6.10m

Now everyone look at Rafa's net spends from start to finish, what you will notice under Morres & Parry with steady conservative investment we progressed little by little year by year, H&G arrived pumped some significant money into teh club in the 07/08 season but the following two years come on people a £2.5m net spend and a minus £6.10m net spend is no were near good enough for a club with League and European ambitions.

The facts are there when there was investment in the squad we progressed, when there was no investment the rot started to kick in.

Now I'm gona play a little game here in the 08/09 season we lost £250,000 – Paul Anderson, Free – Jermaine Pennant, Free – Miki Roque, £3m – Sebastian Leto, £3.5m – Alvaro Arbeloa., £30m – Xabi Alonso that was £36.75m worth of talent.

People will argue this was the crucial transfer window and Rafa fu**ed it up buying both Jonson and Aquilani and not replacing Alonso.

So we pay 17.5m for Johnson and £17.1m for Aquilani and then £2m for Sotis thats £36.6m if you add Ayala to that list at £160,000 it looks pretty damning on Rafa no ?

But step back Pompey owed us £8m from the Crouch deal and we only paid £5m down payment on Aquilani, Rafa had to settle for Sotis as the board wouldn't release the money for Ryan Shawcross or Gareth Barry, so tell me where did te rest of the money generated from transfers dissapear to ?, given that we initially only payed out £16.5m from the £36.6m that we had generated in sales and what of £20m transfer budget Purslow said we had spent, pretty damning reading on the boards part if you ask me.

Rafa never fu**ed that transfer window up buying Aquilani or Johnson most notably Aquilani he got the best deal he could for an initial down payment for £5m, tell me who was going to buy for £5m to replace a players of Alonso's ability ?

Lets be honest here Rafa signed Aquilani for 5 years not for one season, we were all aware he was injured, we all hoped Lucas could fill the void left by Alonso, it did not happen but te team were struggling to adapt, Alsonso was a huge loss, however Lucas seems to be bearing the fruits of last years endevours.

So where did the rest of the money recouped from trasnsfers go what happened to our transfer budget in Rafa's last two seasons ?, some people are talking about a 5 year plan, well I'd argue what kind of 5 year plan would involve selling your best players with holding money from their sales as well as withholding any form of transfer budget thus making the manager opearte on a net profit ?

Rafa put us back on the map we were consistently in the top 4 and the Champions league ranked number 1 club in Europe at one point won the F.A cup, Champions league, second Champions league final and led us to our 3rd ever ighest points tally when finishing second.

He done all this on a moderate budget whilst clubs like Man United & Chelsea were throwing money round nilly willy even Man City got in on that game, people will surely throw up Wegner but lets be realistic here, check out Wegner vs Rafa side by side in the 6 years Rafa was on English soil, in terms of silverware, Rafa was the most succesfull manager.

The point of this post proves onething, with moderate investment we steadily progressed year up on year so for that reason knowing new owners were eventually coming in, Rafa should have been kept as under owners like NESV Rafa would surely have taken us up another level.

But don't let Facht's cloud your judgment no ?

The wheels appeared to fall off for Rafa just after he signed that 20 odd million pound contract that dragged on and dragged on during a time where speculation that Rafa would walk was rife.  That also coincided with him insisting he had more control of the youth academy in his contract, and more control in general.

The issue was that after that contract they never gave him any money for players, so can only assume that was an agreed part of him being given the huge money himself and the other concessions. To support that theory he strangely stopped moaning about not having money for players after that time.   Before that contract he had been incessantly moaning.

In hindsight, I bet he wishes he had taken a little less for himself, a little less control of other matters, and  got a written guarantee of a healthy transfer kitty. I think he thought he could continue to strengthen the team even with a sell to buy policy.

Rafa Benitez was given six years in charge of Liverpool Football Club. Liverpool Football Club exist to win trophies, for four straight years we won nothing under Rafa Benitez. Liverpool Football Club pride themselves on winning League titles, in six years at Liverpool Football Club Rafa Benitez never won the League title.

Yes he was the manager that led us to the Champions League in 2005. The same season we finished fifth and were knocked out of the FA Cup by Burnley. Yes he was the manager that took us to second in the League in 08/09, but since when did 2nd become an achivement for this club? A famous quote by a man named Bob Paisley - "mind you, I've been here during the bad times too - one year we came second." and now we're celebrating a second place finish? That's how far we've fallen and Rafa, like it or not, has played a part in us falling as have many other people.

I'm not gonna go into his transfers because we all have a say on who was a good transfer or not. Some will make out Aurelio is a good signing, while others will slag off that transfer. And there's very few all agree on. I think he made more f**k ups than good buys, but others don't. No point dragging that argument back up just to hear "how can you say that's a bad transfer when we bought him for x amount and sold for twice as much" blah blah blah.

He was given six years and after that we were left with a pretty average side that finished seventh behind a pretty average Aston Villa side. I would of given him one more year to see if he could get us playing like he did in 08/09 but he wasn't. So we have to move on like this club always has. We can sit here and say how many years should of Evans been given or how many years should Don Welsh of got as manager? But we don't, we move on and remember the good times rather than just mope in self pity. Get over the fact that Rafa Benitez no longer manages Liverpool Football Club.

He delivered the CL when we had 'no financial constraints'. Granted he did will in the one year he finished second while working under constraints but lets not cloud matters and make out he had difficulty with the board in 2005.

If you don't want to cloud matters then do you think a transfer net spend of minus £4.5m over two seasons was good enough for any manager who's team had league and european ambitions, whilst teams like Chelsea Man United Arsenal Tottenham Man City and Villa were outspending him to try and wrestle our position in the top 4 away from us ?

Was Rafa the cause of the failure or was it simply that other teams had over taken us given they were investing and adding quality their squads, whilst we were selling our players and replacing them with inferior players and creaming off the profit ?

Its team that invest that are ultimately successfull, you don't become successfull operating at a net profit in football in terms of transfers, working on a £20m per season net transfer budget, it 's fair to say we were robbed of £44.5m worth of investment in the squad in Rafa's last two seasons, would it be fair to assume had that investment materialised, we'd never have finished seventh and Rafa would still be our manager ?.

after 11 games last season we were only 3 points better off with rafa lets get behind Roy and forget rafa

Documented evidence with direct quotes might help otherwise its just hearsay (and they we're f**king crap as well!).

I'll give you better than quotes.....
Gerard's ( his captain) blatant display of disbelief when he substituted Torres.
For all the world to see!
A ditrect challange to his tactic's and authority
Have you ever seen that behaviour from a team captain before? let alone a LFC captain!

Would you still have it that Rafa had the respect of his dressing room
Also Purslow gave some very interesting insight into the meeting he had with various senoir players, both written and verbal.

"and they we're f**king crap as well" you forgot to add, in your opinion

Rafa Benitez, a great team manger.  But, imo a poor squad manager

Rafa Benitez, a great team manger.  But, imo a poor squad manager

What the F**k you on about now?

What the f**k you on about now?

With you on that. What the f*ck is that meant to mean?

I think Rafa is a great manager and a great bloke. My question would be this: Didn't he have a 5 year plan to win the premiership? I am pretty sure he did and he himself will feel that he failed but boy did he come close! We need continuity now.

I don't think that 5 year plan involved selling our best players and not replacing them, or having a £10m net spend.  His play relied on investment in the team - like every other club.

If you don't want to cloud matters then do you think a transfer net spend of minus £4.5m was good enough for any manager who's team had league and european ambitions, whilst teams like Chelsea Man United Arsenal Tottenham Man City and Villa were outspending him to try and wrestle our position in the top 4 away from us ?

Was Rafa the cause of the failure or was it simply that other teams had over taken us given they were investing and adding quality their squads, whilst we were selling our players and replacing them with inferior players and creaming off the profit ?

Its team that invest that are ultimately successfull, you don't become successfull operating at a net profit in football in terms of transfers, working on a £20m per season net transfer budget, it 's fair to say we were robbed of £41m worth of investment in the squad in Rafa's last two seasons, would it be fair to assume had that investment materialised, we'd never have finished seventh and Rafa would still be our manager ?.

To assume could make an ass out of u and me

after 11 games last season we were only 3 points better off with rafa lets get behind Roy and forget rafa

In comparable games, we are about 12points back

Haha gotta love messin with some people on here