Roy and Rafa - Points comparison

With me having absolutely nothing to do for the next two months... I got extremely bored and decided to run some results. Whipped out my calculator, trawled through ESPNsoccernet's tables and came up with some results between Roy and Rafa. I gathered some statistics and its the average points per game each manager (Roy and Rafa) gained during their time in England.

For Roy's time this only starts during his stint at Fulham in Dec 2007, while Rafa's began in August 2004. Excluded Roy's Blackburn part because it was short lived and out-dated (considering it was more than 10 years ago). I don't think its unfair on Hodgson as the results at Liverpool and Fulham are pretty similar, even though there's a vast difference in terms of quality of playing staff.

Perhaps this is why Hodgson thinks we are having a decent season?

So this is the results I have gathered. pts/g refers to average points gained per game. This analysis only includes EPL games. So, draw your own conclusions!

Under Roy

Liverpool 2010/2011
RH’s LFC pts/g: 1.27 pts
RH’s Home pts/g: 2.00 pts
RH’s Away pts/g: 0.63 pts

Fulham 2009/2010
RH’s Fulham pts/g: 1.21 pts
RH’s Home pts/g: 1.89 pts
RH’s Away pts/g: 0.53 pts

Fulham 2008/2009
RH’s Fulham pts/g: 1.39 pts
RH’s Home pts/g: 1.89 pts
RH’s Away pts/g: 0.89 pts

Fulham 2007/2008
RH’s Fulham pts/g: 1.17 pts
RH’s Home pts/g: 1.00 pts
RH’s Away pts/g: 1.33 pts


Under Rafa

Liverpool 2009/2010
RB’s LFC pts/g: 1.66 pts
RB’s Home pts/g: 2.21 pts
RB’s Away pts/g: 1.11 pts

Liverpool 2008/2009
RB’s LFC pts/g: 2.26 pts
RB’s Home pts/g: 2.26 pts
RB’s Away pts/g: 2.26 pts

Liverpool 2007/2008
RB’s LFC pts/g: 2.00 pts
RB’s Home pts/g: 2.21 pts
RB’s Away pts/g: 1.79 pts

Liverpool 2006/07
RB’s LFC pts/g: 1.79 pts
RB’s Home pts/g: 2.42 pts
RB’s Away pts/g: 1.16 pts

Liverpool 2005/2006
RB’s LFC pts/g: 2.16 pts
RB’s Home pts/g: 2.42 pts
RB’s Away pts/g: 1.79 pts

Liverpool 2004/2005
RB’s LFC pts/g: 1.53 pts
RB’s Home pts/g: 2.11 pts
RB’s Away pts/g: 0.95 pts


Total Record Overall
Roy Hodgson’s pts/g: 1.29 pts
Roy Hodgson’s Home pts/g: 1.76 pts
Roy Hodgson’s Away pts/g: 0.80 pts

Rafael Benitez’s pts/g: 1.90 pts
Rafael Benitez’s Home pts/g: 2.29 pts
Rafael Benitez’s Away pts/g: 1.51 pts

Going at current rate if Hodgson keeps up his pts/g of 1.27 pts, we'll be looking at 48 points for the end of the season. If you prefer to look at his overall record which includes all games at Fulham, then it's eerily similar. 1.29 x 38 gives us 49 total points!

Look at Hodgson's record, compare it with Rafa's and the difference is vast. To me it looks pretty accurate as well. To throw in a few words I'll like to say that in Hodgson's first transfer window as Fulham manager he had a net spend of 14.3M pounds. Couldn't make out the 2nd window as there were just too many undisclosed fees.

Like I said, draw your own conclusions! I posted it on my blog as well so if you have any intention to view it its under my profile

Forgot to add, despite the fact that Roy Hodgson thinks that our travel sickness started even before his LFC regime, I beg to differ. Like I said in the other thread, in 55 away games since he started managing at Fulham, Hodgson has only won 8 of them which amounts to a win rate of 14.5%.

On the other hand Rafa has racked up 48 wins in 114 away EPL games in his 6 years at Anfield, putting the win percentage at 42%.

This means that Rafa has won 3 times more away games than Hodgson, even though Hodgson has managed in about twice less away games than Rafa.

Don't want to sound all doom and gloom but these are all real, hard facts...

Forgot to add, despite the fact that Roy Hodgson thinks that our travel sickness started even before his LFC regime, I beg to differ. Like I said in the other thread, in 55 away games since he started managing at Fulham, Hodgson has only won 8 of them which amounts to a win rate of 14.5%.

On the other hand Rafa has racked up 48 wins in 114 away EPL games in his 6 years at Anfield, putting the win percentage at 42%.

This means that Rafa has won 3 times more away games than Hodgson, even though Hodgson has managed in about twice less away games than Rafa.

Don't want to sound all doom and gloom but these are all real, hard facts...

Dont feel the need to apologise for telling the truth .
The only mystery is why is Roy still here and that can only be that the New Owners havent got all their ducks in a row yet. There can be no other reason.

Paul Tomkins did this not long back

But good effort, ROF. Tells us what we all know.

Paul Tomkins did this not long back

When??

Someone beat me to it! Didn't see his though.

Your comparing points on a manager who was at Fulham though? How an he compete with a Liverpool manager in terms of points in fairness?

Your comparing points on a manager who was at Fulham though? How an he compete with a Liverpool manager in terms of points in fairness?

I get what you mean. But look at the record he has at Liverpool. It's similar to Fulham which in essence means that Liverpool is slipping down mid-table mediocrity.

I get what you mean. But look at the record he has at Liverpool. It's similar to Fulham which in essence means that Liverpool is slipping down mid-table mediocrity.

Precisely.  Roy was brought in partly to manage our expectations - and he has certainly done that.  Nineteen points and a minus goal difference, I mean when was the last time we had a minus goal difference with a team of mostly international players.  Absolutely shocking that we are being treated to this mid-table philosophy.

And kudos on the analysis! 

Firstly, the analysis may be interesting but doesn't prove much - comparing RH's record at Fulham and RB's record at Liverpool is not comparing like for like and as Disraeli said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".

My conclusion is that the points gained by LFC over the last 18 months are unacceptable for a club of this stature - and that suggests that the current malaise is not solely down to RH.  The previous owners, the players, RB and RH must all share a degree of responsibility and I fear that the re-building of the side will be a long-term process.

In the current climate, history counts for nothing - all that matters is the almighty dollar and until LFC can compete with the new big 4 (MUFC, MCFC, CFC AFC) on this level then the glory days will continue to be just a memory.

it is like comparing a porsche to a turd of sh*t.

I think some are missing part of ROF's main point here, which is that Liverpools performances are eerily similar to that of which he made at Fulham - basically, his management is not any different even though he is at a team with better players.

This is not a good thread
how well a manager does depends on the club he is at and the budjet he has to spend, so according to stats he should do better at liverpool

This is not a good thread
how well a manager does depends on the club he is at and the budjet he has to spend, so according to stats he should do better at liverpool

Ignore comparing Roy using the Fulham stats, let us compare him to other Liverpool managers.  Currently on course for our worse away record in the Premiership and his home record is on target for the lower third of all time in the premiership.  Our away record has been poor for 18 months or so, I was questioning it last season, when we managed 1.11 pts per game. In the away table, we are 17th, have a goal difference of -8 and only West Ham have scored less goals away from home than us and as far as I'm concerned, that's unacceptable.

  Looking at the stat, his current stat are very similar to his Fulham stat, with two different team.

So he is a mid table manager  , hope he can proof us wrong by moving us up the table cos we are a stronger team compare to Fulham.

it is like comparing a porsche to a turd of sh*t.

Exactally and you can't polish a turd!

Exactally and you can't polish a turd!

But you can polish a porsche with a turd!

Ask my old neighbour.

Exactally and you can't polish a turd!

The media can roll it around in glitter though.

The thing that gets me about the difference between Roy and Rafa is the essence of what our club stands for. The points thing doesn't truly mean that much to me unless you're winning the league?

Roy is a surviver and will go by his surviving nature. That's simply it. It's what he knows. In turn, the timing of him being here is very dangerous as it's his standards that are being projected to the owners - with whom the jury is very much still out on.  

Rafa on the other hand was bold. He knew what he needed to finish the job off. And he'd let the owners know that there was ambition there. Just like he did with the last lot - which unfortunately led to the demise we've suffered and see today.

That's the difference. That's the comparison. Make sure you don't get clouded by stats. The only stats that matter is how many trophies you've got.

That's simply it. It's what he knows. In turn, the timing of him being here is very dangerous as it's his standards that are being projected to the owners - with whom the jury is very much still out on. 

A very good point.

Firstly, the analysis may be interesting but doesn't prove much - comparing RH's record at Fulham and RB's record at Liverpool is not comparing like for like and as Disraeli said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".

My conclusion is that the points gained by LFC over the last 18 months are unacceptable for a club of this stature - and that suggests that the current malaise is not solely down to RH.  The previous owners, the players, RB and RH must all share a degree of responsibility and I fear that the re-building of the side will be a long-term process.

In the current climate, history counts for nothing - all that matters is the almighty dollar and until LFC can compete with the new big 4 (MUFC, MCFC, CFC AFC) on this level then the glory days will continue to be just a memory.

Firstly let me say that although some stats can be manipulated and abused - hence the quote (taken in context); others can't.

The Hodgson's stats are there for all to see, are over a sustained period of time and are (alarmingly) very consistent. They are not down to coincidence.

Although we have only got a small sample of Hodgson's Reds with which to work; RoF's stats show a continuity of numbers which can not be denied.

Sadly Hodgson actually boasts of both his consistency in approach - methods that have  "held you in good stead for 35 years" and his dislike for innovation. There are somethings that can not be denied, somethings that aren't down to coincidence - no matter how much one disliked Benitez fella. 

Hodgson's consistency in approach has undeniably delivered consistent results. That is; consistent mediocrity.

Now whilst Hodgson's ego won't allow him to see mid-table mediocrity as anything but success; Reds fans everywhere should be demanding better. Sometimes the penny has a long way to drop. Sometimes pride doesn't let us admit we are wrong but there's no shame in being human and making mistakes.

Let's talk long-term here if you want. Set all that went before aside, if it makes things easier - right here, right now, look at the team we all love and realise (once and for all) - Hodgson and his archaic ways do not belong at Liverpool F.C.

Forgot to add, despite the fact that Roy Hodgson thinks that our travel sickness started even before his LFC regime, I beg to differ. Like I said in the other thread, in 55 away games since he started managing at Fulham, Hodgson has only won 8 of them which amounts to a win rate of 14.5%.

On the other hand Rafa has racked up 48 wins in 114 away EPL games in his 6 years at Anfield, putting the win percentage at 42%.

This means that Rafa has won 3 times more away games than Hodgson, even though Hodgson has managed in about twice less away games than Rafa.

Don't want to sound all doom and gloom but these are all real, hard facts...

Good post ROF, a + for ye son

it is like comparing a porsche to a turd of sh*t.

lmao.

This is not a good thread
how well a manager does depends on the club he is at and the budjet he has to spend, so according to stats he should do better at liverpool

Aye, you'd think so PR (unfortunate initials btw  ) but having read RoF's opening post properly, which i'm sure you've done - you'll have seen that his stats here are very similar to his stats at Fulham. ...the whole point of this thread, i'll suggest.  

In fact, if we use your logic and parameters PR, Hodgson is actually preforming worse than he should. Scary, eh?  

Firstly, the analysis may be interesting but doesn't prove much - comparing RH's record at Fulham and RB's record at Liverpool is not comparing like for like and as Disraeli said "there are lies, damned lies and statistics".

My conclusion is that the points gained by LFC over the last 18 months are unacceptable for a club of this stature - and that suggests that the current malaise is not solely down to RH.  The previous owners, the players, RB and RH must all share a degree of responsibility and I fear that the re-building of the side will be a long-term process.

In the current climate, history counts for nothing - all that matters is the almighty dollar and until LFC can compete with the new big 4 (MUFC, MCFC, CFC AFC) on this level then the glory days will continue to be just a memory.

Rafa was dispatched by the board and of course the previous owners because his vision of LFC was not an affordable ideal in their projected scenario, a less demanding manager with a modest mindset was required and RH fitted the bill to a T. The squad could then be trimmed to a mid table model without any objection from the manager, indeed his knowledge of that status could be an advantage.
So with all the components in place LFC are set on its new mediocre path with RH as the pilot, as we all know all did not go according to plan with the owners being jettisoned and the board dismantled leaving LFC virtually rudderless under Captain mediocre.
It is something of a mystery how the previous poster alludes to Benitez as being instrumental in any of the above indeed the  disastrous measures undertaken by H&G and the board were only able to be implemented upon his removal - that to me is the only active part that can be credited to Rafa.