Trending Topics

      Next match: v [] Thu 1st Jan @ 1:00 am

      Today is the 7th of June and on this date LFC's match record is P4 W3 D0 L1

      Houllier's last squad v Rafa's

      Read 17392 times
      0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #115: Dec 08, 2010 09:56:05 pm
      It is an awful Premiership clear as F***ing day for everyone to see. Arsenal have been poor and they are still F***ing top says it all really.

      Do you think Mourinho Chelsea wouldn't piss all over the other teams in the Premiership or what about Wenger invincibiles or what about Ferguson triple winning team.

       The big teams have all deteriorated in the last couple of years due to there lack of spending it is not the other teams have caught up.
      gazza31
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 2,751 posts | 35 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #116: Dec 08, 2010 09:56:16 pm
      You didn't know when Fowler left the club says it f**king all really, if you want I'll give you a lend of his autobiography. What Rafa resigned him f**king wow he wasn't left him was he.

       I'm following Liverpool 26 years I'm 30 years of age what age are you exactly Gazza because you keep making references to age. The majority of Liverpool young an old wanted
      Rafa to stay.

      like to say I have been following Liverpool 44 years but can't as I am 48 can't remember what I was doing when I was 4 glad you can ffs. That I quoted fowler being in Rafa squad was not wrong as he resigned him ffs stop jumping on something like a dog with two dicks trying to prove a point it's F***ing childish.

      Rafas time had come, as for you Walton go on tell me that you didn't see fall outs in the kop last year when people tried to start the Rafa chants. If you didn't you either blind or deaf or wernt  there.
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #117: Dec 08, 2010 10:00:44 pm
      It is wrong and you only admitted it when I pulled you on it, can't remember if you had Heskey down as well he was gone as well think some else pulled you on that.

      Rafa had another season in him without the shadow of Hicks and Gillette hanging over him you seem to have forgotten about them.

      We had no cover last year when Torres was injured nearly all season where did the £12 million for Keane go do you think Rafa didn't want to spend that money.
      gazza31
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 2,751 posts | 35 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #118: Dec 08, 2010 10:03:07 pm
      It is wrong and you only admitted it when I pulled you on it, can't remember if you had Heskey down as well he was gone as well think some else pulled you on that.

      Rafa had another season in him without the shadow of Hicks and Gillette hanging over him you seem to have forgotten about them.

      We had no cover last year when Torres was injured nearly all season where did the £12 million for Keane go do you think Rafa didn't want to spend that money.


      He had money, spent it on a crock from Italy and a defender that can't defend, now that would of bought a world class striker. that was unforgivable.
      red_squirrel
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,131 posts | 15 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #119: Dec 08, 2010 10:04:04 pm
      For me, Rafa left a squad and a set of youth players that were far more healthy than was left to him.  I don't know what Andy Gray is on about.

      The PL has become more determined by money since Abramovich arrived.  So Rafa not only had to challenge for the title, but also compete with teams with far greater resources - who were already ahead of us.  So although we can argue he spent as much as rednose - he was still playing 'catch-up' from his starting point.  He almost got there.

      I don't think one bad season was justification for letting Rafa go.  If anyone disagrees, have a look back to the final league table in 1980.  A win ratio of 55/56%, has anyone bettered that since 1990?

      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #120: Dec 08, 2010 10:13:18 pm
      Portsmouth still owed us money from the Crouch deal so I think this played a part in Johnson signing, money we probably would have never seen anyway. I rate Johnson won't get into that with you.

       Aquilani was bought with very little money up front and a lot of the money was based on appearances etc, he hardly looks a crock this year does he, he has been one of the best players in Italy this season.

      So we have the ask the question where did the rest of the money go.
      gazza31
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 2,751 posts | 35 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #121: Dec 08, 2010 10:16:29 pm
      Portsmouth still owed us money from the Crouch deal so I think this played a part in Johnson signing, money we probably would have never seen anyway. I rate Johnson won't get into that with you.

       Aquilani was bought with very little money up front and a lot of the money was based on
      appearances etc, he hardly looks a crock this year does he, he has been one of the best players in Italy this season.

      So we have the ask the question where did the rest of the money go.

      Can't quote on Aqua as not seen much of Italian football, can only comment what I saw when he was here. No doubt money not accounted for I just think a striker was the biggest priority.
      red_squirrel
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,131 posts | 15 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #122: Dec 08, 2010 10:19:22 pm
      Can't quote on Aqua as not seen much of Italian football, can only comment what I saw when he was here. No doubt money not accounted for I just think a striker was the biggest priority.

      I thought Rafa had a striker lined up, can't remember his name (from Fiorentina?) and then was told 'no cash mate' by Purslow. 
      corballyred
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 17,707 posts | 307 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #123: Dec 08, 2010 10:21:37 pm
      Jovetic your thinking of red squirrel more of a lad to play in the hole though
      kevinho
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 3,698 posts | 78 
      • YNWA
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #124: Dec 08, 2010 10:24:04 pm
      The Premier League is more competitive top to bottom this year than when Rafa took over. There are 6 legitimate contenders for the top 4 spots, and realistically it is three teams fighting for the fourth spot (I'm penciling in Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U for top 3). Man City, Tottenham, and our Reds are all fighting for the fourth spot. Teams are dropping points left and right because there is parity, less spending, etc. I don't know if that necessarily means English teams will batter the rest of Europe in the CL, but it sure as hell means the gap is closing top to bottom here.

      It all depends on your definition of stronger. Are the top teams stronger? No. Are the bottom and middle teams? Yes.
      red_squirrel
      • Forum Legend - Benitez
      • *****

      • 2,131 posts | 15 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #125: Dec 08, 2010 10:26:18 pm
      Jovetic your thinking of red squirrel more of a lad to play in the hole though

      That's the fella.  He looked pretty decent when we played them in those 2 games in the CL.  Would have been a good addition methinks.
      KennyIsKing
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 4,628 posts | 129 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #126: Dec 08, 2010 11:10:33 pm
      There's no "agenda against Rafa" from my part. I've got an agenda against people talking utter b0ll0cks,

      And yet you continue to do it.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 40,493 posts | 8677 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #127: Dec 08, 2010 11:12:26 pm
      There's no "agenda against Rafa" from my part. I've got an agenda against people talking utter b0ll0cks, but not against our former manager. Yes we had injuries last season, yes we've got injuries this season, everyone gets them. I remember the mancs playing Michael Carrick and Darren Fletcher as centre halves last season because they didn't have anyone else. They didn't finish 7th though as a result of it.

       You need to just be honest. There's no shame in admitting we played sh!t last season, just like there's no shame in admitting that winning the Champions League with a team which included Djimi Traore was an astounding achievement. We were sh!t last season and the manager was culpable. Simple as that really.  

      And yet we were that sh*t we still beat Man U at home and Everton twice and we were never in the bottom three.

      If the manager is culpable, so are the F***ing players, including the captain who looked as if he wasn't arsed last season.

      I also have an agenda against beauts who say "fecking" we're scouse, here it's "F***ing"
      KennyIsKing
      • Banned
      • *****

      • 4,628 posts | 129 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #128: Dec 08, 2010 11:13:11 pm
      like to say I have been following Liverpool 44 years

      Following, not supporting.

      Says it all.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 40,493 posts | 8677 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #129: Dec 08, 2010 11:20:07 pm
      I thought Rafa had a striker lined up, can't remember his name (from Fiorentina?) and then was told 'no cash mate' by Purslow. 

      Just like he had Dani Alves lined up and the spastic bubble-headed beaut wouldn't give him the money.
      Just like he had David Silva lined up and the two yanks wouldn't give him the money.

      If he was able to buy the players he actually wanted instead of having to make do, it might of been a totally different story.

      But we were sh*t last season, so it's all his fault. Conveniently forget the snake in cuban heels and the two shitbag yanks.

      It was all Rafa's fault!
      angusmccoatup
      • Forum Markus Babbel
      • *

      • 74 posts | 12 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #130: Dec 08, 2010 11:24:32 pm
      The premiership may be more competitive but I have to agree with Corbally et al that this is due to the league being weaker overall - the Chelsea side of 2004/5, the Arsenal side of 2003/4 and various Man Utd sides would have had the league virtually wrapped up by now.

      Yes Spurs and Man City are stronger than they have been traditionally but this is counter-acted by the fact that Aston Villa and Everton are weaker.

      IMO the main difference is that the rest of the premier league has realised that MUFC, CFC and AFC are there for the taking and are actually trying to win these games rather than hoping for a draw. WBA, Sunderland, Newcastle, Blackpool etc have all adopted attacking approaches against the so called bigger clubs and this has highlighted their vulnerability.  Lets face it Man Utd have dropped the fewest points and they have been crap all season yet are probably the most likely winners at this stage.

      Back on topic, I would say that the squad bequeathed by Houllier was marginally the stronger but both squads had some high quality players but also some major weaknesses for a club hoping to challenge for the league.
      angusmccoatup
      • Forum Markus Babbel
      • *

      • 74 posts | 12 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #131: Dec 08, 2010 11:32:53 pm

      If he was able to buy the players he actually wanted instead of having to make do, it might of been a totally different story.

      But we were sh*t last season, so it's all his fault. Conveniently forget the snake in cuban heels and the two shitbag yanks.

      It was all Rafa's fault!

      Yep and if my granny had bollocks she'd be my grandad !

      I understand what your saying Huyton, but do you really think that Benitez did such a good job last year that he is exempt from criticism ?  Was seventh the best possible position that the club could have obtained ?

      I can't agree with you there and regardless of the prevailing circumstances, felt that Benitez should have got last year's squad to a higher position - hence, he deserved to cop some flack as not all of last season's failings can be attributed to factors outside his control.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******
      • Started Topic

      • 32,349 posts | 4968 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #132: Dec 08, 2010 11:34:22 pm
      I'm actually a bit surprised by the amount who think Roy has been left with the weaker squad as for me it is without a doubt that Rafa left a much better squad with lots of very good young players ready to come through as well.

      I also remember reading in Carra's autobiography that when Rafa met with him Stevie and Owen Gerrard said to Rafa "I'm not sure you appreciate how bad we are"

      I know that is not proof that my opinion is right but it does show that the players felt Rafa had a big job on his hands when he took over.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******

      • 40,493 posts | 8677 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #133: Dec 08, 2010 11:39:51 pm
      Yep and if my granny had bollocks she'd be my grandad !

      I understand what your saying Huyton, but do you really think that Benitez did such a good job last year that he is exempt from criticism ?  Was seventh the best possible position that the club could have obtained ?

      I can't agree with you there and regardless of the prevailing circumstances, felt that Benitez should have got last year's squad to a higher position - hence, he deserved to cop some flack as not all of last season's failings can be attributed to factors outside his control.

      Where I have said he doesn't deserve flack, they all deserve flack, manager and players!!

      But to get shut after one real bad season is a just a joke, to replace him with the owl is just a sick F***ing joke.
      srslfc
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
      • ******
      • Started Topic

      • 32,349 posts | 4968 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #134: Dec 08, 2010 11:44:13 pm
      Where I have said he doesn't deserve flack, they all deserve flack, manager and players!!

      But to get shut after one real bad season is a just a joke, to replace him with the owl is just a sick f**king joke.

      Agree.

      I've noticed as lot of people over the last few weeks saying that those of us who supported Rafa didn't criticise him and it's simply not true.

      I am a big Rafa fan and didn't think he was beyond criticism and I did criticise him at times last season but like you say HR he deserved at least one more season after his first and only really bad season with us.
      Roddenberry
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 16,568 posts | 1876 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #135: Dec 08, 2010 11:57:06 pm
      Well the first thing which strikes you between the eyes is that one of the squads has 32 players, and one has 47. Significant? Well perhaps, perhaps not, but certainly the latter one offers up more of the "options and possibilities" which we saw explored in every which way over Benitez's six year tenure.

      As such, after much pontification and waffle, I'd say there was little between the two squads left behind but if pushed I'd say the Houllier legacy was slightly better. 

      Looking at those squads, I regard 15 of Benitez's & 4 of Houllier's reserve players, so leaves the squads about even.  And if you think Houllier's squad was better than do you think Gerard hugely underachieved with what he had at his disposal, and thusly must think that Rafa overachieved with the squad he had, especially when you look at points taken in the league.
      bigmick
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 10,078 posts | 2767 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #136: Dec 09, 2010 12:09:01 am


      I also have an agenda against beauts who say "fecking" we're scouse, here it's "f**king"
      [/quote]

       You can have an agenda against whoever you like silly b0llocks. If it winds you up that on an internet forum someone types fecking rather than f*cking then you really do have an issue. I'm not scouse but I don't give a sh!t. I've supported the team for all of my 44 years and just because I talk a bit different to you makes no odds. Not to me anyway, if it does to you then toughski. 
      vitez
      • Forum Legend - Fagan
      • *****

      • 2,701 posts | 156 
      Re: Houllier's last squad v Rafa's
      Reply #137: Dec 09, 2010 01:50:58 am
      Our defence hasn't been good for two years, especially for a side that is so defensive. To be carved open as often as we were last year and as often as we have been this year is criminal for a defensive side. And I think you'll find that our attack has been slaughtered by myself over the past two years.

      It's been horrendous this season but there's some logical reasoning for it and hopefully it will improve.  Last season wasn't too bad in all honesty (but if you say it's sh*t you can then blame Glen Johnson for it because he dares have the audacity to play a role that wasn't: commonplace back in the good old days which you weren't there for/you're unfamiliar with/not used to seeing) and frankly it just seems odd to single out or defense constantly for abuse when last season our attack was the major concern.  For the last time, our defense was good enough to be title challengers, our attack was awful, work out why that's the case.  While you're there use your infinite footballing wisdom to answer me this: Why did we have the home form of title challengers and the away form of relegation battlers?

      Xabi was here for six years, scored 19 goals in all competitions. That averages out at just over 3 a season. It's not great as I said, especially for a player of his ability. However it's much better than either Lucas' or Mascherano's.

      Lucas has been here for 4 years (2 of those in the first team) and scored 6, luckily goals scored by individual players doesn't dictate who wins the league or cup.  You're awfully daft and continue fail to recognise this concept.  A team can score 30 goals in a season but if they concede none, that's still 90 points and good enough to win the league.

      So why is it your job to define how they should play? You say it's alright if they do this, that and the other - defining what's acceptable for a Liverpool central midfielder. Read your own line above "if he stops one or two more, it evens itself out" defining there. Well done on the contradiction lad.

      Never said it was, I don't make comments like "oh well that's what a central midfielder should do".  Using my knowledge of modern football, I've explained why it is that Lucas doesn't score goals or the difference between a central midfielder/holding midfielder, fullback/wingback or a winger/inside forward.  That comment is in no way, shape or form dictating how a central midfielder should play, but merely offering a valid reason as to why Lucas might not score as many as he "should be" because that's what central midfielders do.

      Mascherano is a poor man's Didi and isn't better than Meireles. He's an average player who for some reason has such a great reputation. And yes defensive midfielders have been around for a while, they played as central midfielders who chipped in with goals as well as doing their defensive work. Souness and McMahon being two of our examples would allow Terry Mc and Jan Molby respectively to do more of the offensive work as that suited them but both Souey and Macca would still chip in. Something Mascherano didn't do at this club - something however that Didi did.

      Again, showing your complete lack of footballing knowledge.  He has a great reputation because he's probably the world's premier DM.  He is the closest to a Makelele we've seen in many years (never once scored at Real Madrid and only 2 goals in his time at Chelsea but I'm sure he wasn't fit to lace Didi Hamann's boots because Didi scored 12 in his time here, right?).  It pains you that football's advanced, I get that.  For a kid who's 20 and never actually once watched those players play, you sh*t on an awful lot about them and how they did things the right way.

      As I said, Rafa said it so it'll be swallowed.
      As I said, just because you're too thick to understand the difference, doesn't mean we all are.

      No our priority should be the League, first last and always. It's all very well putting Europe first if you're reaching finals but in the three full seasons under Hicks and Gillett we made the semi finals (07-08) the quarter finals (08-09) and knocked out at the group stages (09-10). So we didn't go on making too many finals there did we? Maybe with a slightly bigger push in the League we'd still be playing football in Europe's premier competition. But hey, it's alright if we put Europe as long as it was Rafa that was manager.

      I agree, the league should be our priority because you said so.  F**k this common sense rubbish.  If additional progress in Europe requires you to play some half-assed games in the league, it should be done under difficult financial circumstances.

      Right, so Europe hasn't started because Hodgson has got a decent run in Europe. If however we'd lost one or two games, Europe would of most definitely started for you and a few others. Europe started in our first qualifier, since then we've gone unbeaten. And Hodgson has priortised the League, picking overrated players who don't perform on a regular basis whereas in Europe he's gone with players who are hungry and want to prove a point.

      The qualifying and group stages of the EL is a different kettle of fish compared to the CL group stages.  Had we beaten Northampton like we should have and drawn Ipswich the following round, although the league cup had officially already started against Northhampton Town, only once we'd defeated those two and then drawn WBA would we be getting down to the business end of things.  Hodgson's done well to qualify us undefeated using a ton of youngsters (thankfully poor showings by our opponents has helped) and long may it continue into the business end of things.  Are you now beating the Hodgson prioritises the league drum?  Make up your mind, last post you said Hodgson prioritised Europe.

      And if he had, you'd of found someone else to blame.

      You keep telling yourself that.

      I'm not undermining anything, but for the record - it is as follows “football is a simple game made complicated by those who should know better”

      http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/latest-news/bill-shankly-in-quotes

      2nd from bottom, you're welcome.

      And for anybody who thinks the English game has copied those from abroad - Guardiola has admitted to copying Shankly's methods/systems. Funny that eh that the second best side in world football, is trying to emulate what the world's greatest side was doing over 50 years ago.

      The Barcelona philosophy is "pass, offer, move, receive" (or something to that effect).  The took the basics from the Liverpool teams of the past and still felt the need to evolve it that little bit more.  Why is that?

      Don't know why they're such a good team, when they carry deadweight like Busquets - he's only scored 2 league goals in his 3 seasons there and he's a "central midfielder".  Surely, another case of him not being good enough to lace Didi's boots though because he scored 12 in his 7 years here.

      edit:

      If it was Rafa's time to go for having a poor season, then Gerrard should have been sold too for having a poor season, right?

      Jovetic your thinking of red squirrel more of a lad to play in the hole though

      Just briefly, Fiorentina play this sort of a formation:




      *Can't remember their WB names but they really like to get forward
      Not 100% sure if it's 4-3-3/4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1/4-5-1/4-2-1-3 or whatever (does seems more 4-2-1-3 to me).

      Jovetic played 3 different positions left wing/off the striker/leading the line.  If Gilardino was out, Jovetic always led the line (might not be the case anymore now that Mutu is back).  I'm guessing Rafa had the same idea for him here.  He was bought as a LW mainly but if Torres was out, he could lead the line.  Also had the option to deploy him as a second striker and maybe shift Gerrard back to the right?
      « Last Edit: Dec 09, 2010 03:35:27 am by vitez »

      Quick Reply