4th - realistic prospect or naive dream?

At the start of the season, I thought we'd be in a battle for 4th with City, with Spurs off the pace.  That is not how it has turned out, but I reckoned that we have the players at the club to compete and to win that battle - if only we had a manager capable of inspiring and uplifting our players, giving them confidence. 

With the league a very strange place this year, the situation that we find ourselves in is not as hopeless as it might appear.  We are - if we win the game in hand (Blackpool away next week) only 8 points off 4th, that is a lot but with Chelsea imploding and Spurs letting Europe distract them (plus Beckham might upset their balance), if they go on to the latter stages of the CL they will drop points in the league and we still have to play them both (Chelsea away and Spurs at Anfield).

With Roy, we have no chance, that much is obvious. However, if we change our manager, I firmly believe that we can achieve 4th place this year.  We have six winnable games before the Chelsea game, we could go into that game on a high, right behind them.  A revitalised and resurgent Liverpool will scare the bollocks off of any opposition - home or away.  We NEED a new manager, NOW.  Bring back Kenny and belief and confidence will course through the player's veins, freed to take the game to the opposition.

This is not an emotional hope, but a rational assessment of our position and our potential.  We have the quality, we just need a manager capable of harnessing it.

So, can we achieve 4th? I believe!

If John Henry acts fast enough then absolutely we can get 4th but he doesn't seem to be in any rush does he.

The players seem very deflated at the min, and don't look like they have the spirit in them to mount an asault on 4th place. We really need a manager who can come in with some fresh ideas, and get the belief back in the players again.
The way results have been going in the League for every other team so far means 4th place is still achievable, but short of a new man in charge, I don't see where the inspiration is going to come from.

Our only hope for fourth ( Cant see it happening this year ) is a change of manager aligned with some quality January signings. Right now I would be happy with us getting back to playing the right style of football and finishing the season confident that all the players and fans could see the club has turned around. A proper transfer window in the summer and I reckon we can win the title. I jest not.

I don't think 4th place is achievable anymore, if you can see the table properly, last season we had 11 defeats throughout the season, but right now, midway through the season we are looking at our 8th defeat already, its practically done...
all we can do is hope someone better comes in place of Woy and things don't go the wrong way anymore...Liverpool Always

Even if we go on a good run we will struggle to achieve fourth.We can dream, but it will be very hard!

We definitely have the players to even challenge for the league title, IMO.

We have the best keeper in the world in Pepe Reina, we have the most complete footballer in the world in Steven Gerrard and we have the best forward in the world in Fernando Torres. Add the likes of Daniel Agger, Fabio Aurelio, Joe Cole, Maxi Rodriguez, Raul Meireles, Lucas Leiva and a few more, we should be winning more matches than we are losing.

What we don't have is a manager who inspires and motivates the team when needed or sets the usual and expected standards of this club. We need a manager who knows how to get the best out of the players we have and at least play football. Let's be honest, our away form is relegation form.

Mathematically, it is still possible because most of the teams, aren't playing exactly well this season. 11 points adrift but it is still catchable but it's difficult to expect Tottenham, Chelsea, Sunderland, Bolton and Stoke to all drop points at the same time and that's provided we also win at the same time!

To even have a shot at finishing top four, a change of manager is really needed along with 2-3 more good to quality signings. If not, I just want us to be playing football like how we used to. I was watching the Liverpool 4-0 Real Madrid match I have on my PC and I can't believe it's been so long since we've played like that and fear that, that could go on longer.

No chance. Even if we win the next two games, we'll still be miles behind tottenham and Chelsea. Let's get top 6 and plan for next year. Try to do well in uefa cup.

Win the next 2 games and spurs win their 1 in hand and we'll still be 8 points off 4th. Given the fact that we have away games and the extra fact that we just got beat by Wolves at home then nope, not with him in charge anyway.

If Roy is sacked within the next week then yes.

If he isn't then no.

We definitely have the players to even challenge for the league title, IMO.

It's all opinions mate but mine is very different to that. I do think we have a team/squad which is good enough to challenge for the top four, but not to win it no. That said, if the team was good enough before the season started (and I think it was), it isn't good enough IMHo to make up the deficit we now find ourselves in, regardless of who is the manager. Even if you sacked Roy today and brought Mourinho in, or Rafa if you prefer, or Hiddink or even all three, I don't think we are good enough to give both Chelsea and Tottenham a start and overhaul them.

My boozer is predominantly Chelsea, and their fans are getting very twitchy that they won't make the top four (they've pretty much given up on the top three). It just shows you how big our mountian to climb is from here (AND BEFORE I GET ACCUSED OF HAVING AN AGENDA IT IS ROYS FAULT WE ARE SO FAR BEHIND), and I think realistically we are still looking at sixth.

That's not to say we couldn't play much better than we are, and we still IMHO have a big chance of winning the Europa League Cup thing. I would still change the manager if the right one is available or put Kenny in charge. What the club desperately needs rioght now is unity from top to bottom, and I just can't see us ever getting it with Roy at the helm and people being so against him.

If Roy is sacked within the next week then yes.

If he isn't then no.

On the yes, I'd have us for finishing fourth and going for the Fa Cup and Europa, but that's without the owl in charge.

With him, I don't know where we will finish.

Did someone make 'agenda' fashionable?

I think the spine in our team is top 4, but we have no width at all. Thats why I think we play well against Chelsea, Arsenal and play badly against Stoke, Wolves (no excuse in that performance). Arsenal, Chelsea give us space but wolves and stoke don't. That's why we need 2 world class wingers and play a 433 formation and we'll do a lot better. I think we only need 2 players before being a title winning team.

On the yes, I'd have us for finishing fourth and going for the Fa Cup and Europa, but that's without the owl in charge.

With him, I don't know where we will finish.

That's the thing. There are still two cup competitions to go for. We can take the record for most Europa League's won outright if we win it this year and also go for our 8th FA Cup triumph.

That in itself is enough to sack Roy and get Kenny in right away. Imagine the turnaround if we went on to win 2 trophies after these 4/5 months of hell. It's quite possible too with our squad.

Even if we go on a good run we will struggle to achieve fourth.We can dream, but it will be very hard!

It will not actually take that much to catch up to be honest, I was despairing until I looked harder at the table.  If we win our next six games - which we should (well, I would not expect to under Roy, but with a proper manager we should coast them) we will likely find ourselves right up there in the mix as Chelsea and Spurs will drop points.  We then go to Chelsea which could be a make or break game, get even a point there and we could achieve 4th.

Upcoming fixtures –
Liverpool:
Blackburn (A)
Blackpool (A)
Everton (H)
Wolves (A)
Fulham (H)
Stoke (H)

Spurs:
Everton (A)
Utd (H)
Newcastle (A)
Blackburn (A)

Chelsea:
Wolves (A)
Blackburn (H)
Bolton (A)
Sunderland (A)

We should be winning our games, with a new manager infusing optimism and adventure, I am sure we would.  So, we'll have played one game more than them by the time we play Chelsea.  Spurs have a few difficult games there, they may very well drop points.  Chelsea have three away, though you'd expect them to win those games, but even if they both won all their games and we won ours, we'd be 5 points behind Spurs and 4 behind the Chavs (albeit having played a game more) - right on their tails.

With a new manager, all things are possible.  We are down, but not out yet.  Time for action Mr. Henry!

In the beginning of season it was a realistic prospect IMO. Our team remain the fourth in value of the best 11 and one of the first 6 for full effectif quality. Top 4 was nothing but an achievable result and logical goal.

Now it's more a naive dream. To reach it Liverpool would need to maintain a title winning form for the remaining of season (like developped in this excellent rawk thread : http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=268152.0 ) including away.

Taking the average over the last 5 seasons, we need 70-71 points by the end of the season to get 4th, though judging by how this season is going, I think 66-67 may seal it.  Taking the lower figure, that means we need 41 points at least.  

That means we need to get between 11 wins & 8 draws or 14 wins and 5 losses.  So for me, purely on a mathematical basis, we're out of it, especially if 4th spot ends up needing 70-71 points.  

I just don't see, whomever comes in, attaining that kind of point tally.  

impossible is nothing

We have lost two top class players in the last two years (Alonso and Masch) with only Meireles of any quality replacing them (Aquilani either wasn't good enough or never got the chance depending on your viewpoint). Johnson has been hit and miss, almost as big a liability as threat. We have no real left back Aurelio is injury prone and can't be relied on week in week out and Konchesky has been less than inspiring. At Center back Skrtel is just not good enough, Kyriagos would be a squad player at best in a title chasing team, Agger has been injured most of the time and Carra looks as if father time has started to catch up with him.

Cole for Benny looked a good swop on paper, but sadly we play on grass not paper. Torres has looked a different player since his last injury, and whether you blame it on Roy or Torres attitude we should expect much more than we are getting. Gerrard has looked isolated at times and has seemed much more comfortable back in his old role in central midfield.

Maxi, Babel,Kuyt, N'gog, Jovanavic etc are just squad standard in my opinion anyway.

To get us back into a title challenging team will not be an easy task no matter who takes charge. I do think with a couple of quality players introduced we could quickly become top 4 again. 

How do you change from a title challenging team to a struggling team ? Sell a couple of your best players, bring in too many poor or average players and sit back.         

How do you change from a title challenging team to a struggling team ? Sell a couple of your best players, bring in too many poor or average players and sit back.        

The question is why where there too many poor or average players brought in? Cos the cu*ts that owned us wouldn't shell out for the top class players.

F***ing simples!

Can't see it myself, will be lucky for europa at this moment in time

It seems to me, the players have set this season aside as a loss now. They only seem to play with any urgency and cohesion when they realise they are in deep sh*t, i.e. getting too close to the relegation dog fight. That and that alone seems to be when they raise their game. I don't think they believe they can make 4th, but are aiming to see out the season and reassert themselves next season, with a new manager and a few new players. May be wrong but thats the pattern that seems to be set. Perhaps things will change if we get a couple of decent players on board this month but at the moment I think about 5th or 6th is the best we can hope for.