Average players - Mistakes to avoid in the future.

I've long said it, if you have too many average players and you'll get too many average results. That's why Everton, Blackburn, Sunderland etc etc will finish mid-table. Too many average players and too many average results. That's not to say average players don't have good days, of course they do, but their normal performance level dictates how well the team performs and ultimately where it finishes.

Our mistake for me is that we've got bogged down with too many average players, desperately trying to convince ourselves that "one day" they'll make a player, when in reality for most it isn't going to happen. Lucas is the prime and most obvious (and most controversial) example. I must confess he's already proved me wrong as I didn't think he'd get to the level he's at now, but how longs he been at the club, 4 seasons? We all know that if we had an Alonso, a Masherano, a Michael Carrick or a Charlie Adam even we'd improve as a result. Lets stop waiting around and get it done.

Kuyt isn't good enough as a striker, and he isn't good enough as a right sider either. Yes give him a contract by all means as he's a good club man, but he should be a rotater not an automatic starter. Lets get it done.

N'Gog is a country mile away from being good enough. The Mancs have loaned out Danny Wellbeck because he is so far down their pecking order that he wouldn't get a game. Chelsea have done it with Daniel Sturridge, Man City with Adebayor. N'Gog wouldn't even get in their squads, ever, lets be totally honest here and get it sorted. Lets not "wait and see", we've already seen enough.

Martin Skrtel isn't good enough by a mile. He never ever is going to be either. Get it sorted Kenny.

Fortunately, we have a legend managing the club and I'm sure he will get it sorted. We need him to, otherwise we will continue to get too many average results.  

I've long said it, if you have too many average players and you'll get too many average results.

Interesting OP - sorry for picking out just one bit to quote.

I can't argue with the premise at all - I was just wondering: how many (average players) is too many? What, in your opinion, is the tipping point numerically?

Agreed in principle but after the purse strings were tied under rafa ie the players he wanted we coudnt afford so we had to get second best.(not mentioning the hodgson era konc and poulsen says enough).
Will have to wait and see what the new owners give kenny to spend in the summer.

Oh and are you sure about carrick?the games ive seen him play in and the few scum fans i know say he,s being F***ing abysmal all season.

Dont disagree with this Mick but this is the 1st season we can hopefully look to get "better than average" players on board.

Personally I would keep Kuyt, Srktel and Lucas but I agree we do need a big summer clearout.

Interesting that you class Lucas as average then say Carrick would make a difference to our squad as I feel Carrick is one of the most over rated and average players in the league.

Id have Lucas every time over Carrick.

Agree with a lot of your post mick have to say im stumped by the carrick bit most utd fans i talk to dont even rate him

Average owner's with average and limited investment get you an average squad.

These are the fruits of their regime now, we will need to give NESV the adequate time to get it sorted.

Michael Carrick is a bad example, though if you made me choose between him and Lucas, I would go for Carrick.

Of course I agree, this squad is clearly not good enough.

Skrtel, Lucas, Maxi, Kuyt are all consistent average performers in their positions, real mid-table mediocrity.

Ngog, Jovanovich and Poulsen are just sh*t and should be sold on immediately, as should Konchesky to Forest if they want him.

Aqualaini should be recalled back, and we need to invest in some good wingers. I am 19 years old, and I can not remember a great Liverpool winger in that time. We need pace, trickery a crosser and a finisher on the left and the right with Carroll in the centre of a 4-3-3

                       Reina

Kelly      Carra         Agger    Johnson

                     -------

              Meireles   Gerrard

Suarez           Carroll         ---------

Fill in those 2 blanks and add Skrtel, Lucas, Kuyt, Aurelio, Aqualaini, Pacheco to the bench our squad looks fine. Top 4 at least.

A below average budget will get you average or below average players,I guess this looks like another pop at the spaniard who was in charge last season.

Carrick is so overrated. The amount Ferguscum paid for him even flatters him!

I can see this ending up in a Carrick V Lucas debate. Chalkboards and Opta Stats at the ready 

Interesting OP - sorry for picking out just one bit to quote.

I can't argue with the premise at all - I was just wondering: how many (average players) is too many? What, in your opinion, is the tipping point numerically?

 A mere typo, my bad Bad Boy.

 As for the "numerical" question, there isn't of course a definitive answer (and I guess you knew that). How many average players you can carry depends upon how "average" they are (in the sense that Lucas in less average than N'Gog for instance) and upon how good your non average players are (Mereiles being less non average than Christiano Ronaldo or Fabregas for instance). I guess the point is that too many average players dilute the effectiveness of your better players, do mit too much and the sum of the parts becomes less than it ought to be.

 As for Michael Carrick, can everyone just forget I mentioned him. Off the top of my head I just named a holding midfielder, whether or not people agree he is better than Lucas doesn't alter the fact that Lucas isn't good enough and never will be.    

A below average budget will get you average or below average players,I guess this looks like another pop at the spaniard who was in charge last season.

Whether or not the squad having too many average players is down to the said Spaniard, down to the previous owners or down to someone else isn't the issue being debated here. If you want to debate that then go ahead, but I'm not getting into it because it is a pointless argumment. I don't give a flying f*** who's fault it is, I'm just hoping out loud that kenny gets it sorted sharpish.

Players like ngog, poulsen, konchesky will never be good enough but kuyt skrtel an lucas should be kept as they can be used as good squad players, lucas is not world class but he can do a good job at breaking up play and robbing the ball back he just lacks the class going forward, kuyt should not start but he should be kept as he offers versatility and is great for games that turn into a battle

Wow, bigmick thinks carrick is a holding midfielder!
That says it all really...

He's a deep lying playmakes in the Alonso mould - and he's fine if you give him 20 minutes to make a pass, but in most terms he's behind Lucas.

So we have Rafa, Woy, KK, Dunga and Menezes who all rate the lad - that's good enough for me.

N'Gog has not proved his worth at 1.5 million?
He's done alright for the price, but either needs game time or shipping out - strikers thrive on confidence and the one thing that struck me about his last couple of games is him trying too hard in front of goal, and consequently F***ing up.

Kuyt is possibly the most under rated player we have, and was a VITAL part of the Dutch team that got to the final of the WC - remind me again what our english players were doing...

Skrtel seems to have gone backwards, but is still a decent defender - he is making too many mistakes at the moment, but he's good to have in the squad.

Joe Cole is hugely over rated, and we need to get shot - especially given his wages and the value for money we get from him.

Carragher was never world class - he wasn't even one of the best in the country, even though he has been a superb servant, and gives his all.
I think he'd do well in a motivational role, but I dislike his brand of hoofball.
I'd rather see Sami as part of the coaching staff as well.

Like any squad, ours has some good players, some average and some poor - it's not the first team, it's the squad depth, and we know who the fault lies with there.

We do have average players, and it will be corrected in time, a lot should be shifted out when KK has got all the resources and people in to replace them

The definitive part being the people in to replace them, he can only use what he has.

Carrick.

We've known since 2007 that our quality players were being shipped out and average players were replacing them.  We coped reasonably well until the end of 2009 season however since then the scales have tipped against us.

Kenny isn't stupid, he's well aware of our weaknesses and will already know, more or less, who will be staying/going in the summer and he will already have his targets lined up as replacements.

Now we have decent owners, we have no need to worry that the money won't be available and with Kenny we don't have to worry that he will bring in c**p.

This time next year we will all be wondering what the fuss was about  

We've known since 2007 that our quality players were being shipped out and average players were replacing them.  We coped reasonably well until the end of 2009 season however since then the scales have tipped against us.

Kenny isn't stupid, he's well aware of our weaknesses and will already know, more or less, who will be staying/going in the summer and he will already have his targets lined up as replacements.

Now we have decent owners, we have no need to worry that the money won't be available and with Kenny we don't have to worry that he will bring in c**p.

This time next year we will all be wondering what the fuss was about 

If it was just down to KK, I'd agree, but we have to factor in the NESV philosophy and also commoli as well...

Shankly once said you only need 3 or 4 class players in a team, and 7 or 8 others who are willing to give everything.

Shankly once said you only need 3 or 4 class players in a team, and 7 or 8 others who are willing to give everything.

Which we had,then the resrt is history.

I've long said it, if you have too many average players and you'll get too many average results. That's why Everton, Blackburn, Sunderland etc etc will finish mid-table. Too many average players and too many average results. That's not to say average players don't have good days, of course they do, but their normal performance level dictates how well the team performs and ultimately where it finishes.

 Our mistake for me is that we've got bogged down with too many average players, desperately trying to convince ourselves that "one day" they'll make a player, when in reality for most it isn't going to happen. Lucas is the prime and most obvious (and most controversial) example. I must confess he's already proved me wrong as I didn't think he'd get to the level he's at now, but how longs he been at the club, 4 seasons? We all know that if we had an Alonso, a Masherano, a Michael Carrick or a Charlie Adam even we'd improve as a result. Lets stop waiting around and get it done.

 Kuyt isn't good enough as a striker, and he isn't good enough as a right sider either. Yes give him a contract by all means as he's a good club man, but he should be a rotater not an automatic starter. Lets get it done.

 N'Gog is a country mile away from being good enough. The Mancs have loaned out Danny Wellbeck because he is so far down their pecking order that he wouldn't get a game. Chelsea have done it with Daniel Sturridge, Man City with Adebayor. N'Gog wouldn't even get in their squads, ever, lets be totally honest here and get it sorted. Lets not "wait and see", we've already seen enough.

 Martin Skrtel isn't good enough by a mile. He never ever is going to be either. Get it sorted Kenny.



 Fortunately, we have a legend managing the club and I'm sure he will get it sorted. We need him to, otherwise we will continue to get too many average results.   

Every club needs average players but they also need quality ones and a top class manager. If you look at some of our successful sides of the past you will some very average players. In more modern times, look at some of Man Utd's current 1st team squad:

rafael
fabio
o'shea
fletcher
anderson
ji-sung
obertan
brown
smalling
evans
carrick
gibson
valencia


....I wouldn't want a single one of them at Liverpool and would ber very surprised if any top 4 club would touch them with a bargepole. Individually, they are as average as you can get but look at what they have won and will continue to win! It's not as simple as a player being "average" - there are a lot of ingredients such as work ethic, who plays alongside them to compliment what they lack, and how they are managed.

Wow, bigmick thinks carrick is a holding midfielder!
That says it all really...

He's a deep lying playmakes in the Alonso mould - and he's fine if you give him 20 minutes to make a pass, but in most terms he's behind Lucas.

 Your post does say it all really, you're right there  Clueless.