Full disclosure of all government documents relating to Hillsborough

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-15339818

Good report here on last nights events.

The BBC decided to enclose the video clip when all of the 96 names were read out by Steve Rotherham so they could be recorded in Hansard.

Respect for that.

Maybe now is the time to increase the pressure rather than let it go. the senior Police Officers involved in causing the Death of innocent people and then Mackenzie then telling horrifc lies without regard for the dead or their families need to be brought to book if the word "JUSTICE" means anything.Dont let them off the hook now.
Why has it taken 22 years for local MP's to show some solidarity (not the new intake of Steve Walton or Alison McGowan) and show some backbone.
Whilst I am pleased progress has been made it just brings up even more questions about why these poor people have just been abandoned by the very people who are supposed to represent them.
I get very angry about this subject without having lost anyone, God only knows how they have managed to keep thier dignity for so long.

The fact that the horror of a man McKenzie still does what he does and is apparently still given some credibility explains why the 96 have had to wait 22 long years for justice.
Furthermore his proposed appearance on the Murdoch media machine at this time is as obscene as his forced "apology", Murdoch & McKenzie = evil personified.

Tim_Cahill Tim Cahill
Blue or Red the city of Liverpool unite when it counts always. And also everyone that has supported Justice for the people of Liverpool.

Happy for the families and friends of those who died that this is potentially the beginning of the end of this 22 year fight!

Tell you what it shows how petty that paper we do not speak of are.

My mate has just sent me a link and it shows the paper we do not speak of launching an attack on Joey Barton.

The only reason for that paper we do not speak of launching an attack on Joey Barton is because he has led the campaign to get it into teh commons and for justice for the 96.

There's some bad bigotry in some of the comments on BBC website. Fortunately there are people who know THE TRUTH, and are not frightened of fighting the corner of the innocent victims. The fans were the victims that day. But the bigots continue to make out like it was the police who were the victims. Shameful and shocking.

JFT96

An apology from MacKenzie is meaningless.  Back in 2006 he said he wasn't sorry because he published 'the truth'.

I'm not interested in a hollow apology from MacKenzie or from The Sun.  The only motivation behind them apologising would be for their commercial interests.

Media outlets like the BBC should be embarrassed at their continual employment of him for his 'controversial' views.

I won't ever buy The Sun.  And I won't ever watch anything or read anything involving Kelvin MacKenzie so I don't need an apology from them, and I very much doubt that the Hillsborough families want it either.

All they want is the truth and for these individuals to be exposed for what they truly are.

Excellent post mate.

HILLSBOROUGH: Victory for victims' families

Hillsborough families hail historic Parliament debate as huge step forward for justice

Liverpool EchoOct 18 2011

FAMILIES who lost their loved ones at Hillsborough hailed Parliament’s debate as a huge step forward in their fight for justice.

Speaking after the four hour discussion at Westminster, relatives told the ECHO they were optimistic about the government's commitment to find out what really happened at the Sheffield tragedy and its aftermath.

Cross-party support came from all sides of the Commons last night and families said they had new faith in the process to disclose all the secret Hillsborough files.

Speaking to the ECHO outside Parliament, Margaret Aspinall, who lost her son James, 18, said: “It was a marvellous debate.

“It's been agreed that all information should be released to the panel without redaction and that is every single piece of information that the government can hold.

“And that is great news for the families and the whole of Liverpool, the survivors and the whole of the country.

“It was very poignant when they read out all the names, it was a very moving experience for all, we were holding each others hands – what a way to remember The 96.

“It was a proud moment for us.

“For 22 years we have been let down many a time, sometimes you're on a high and then you're let down, so we've always got to air on the side of caution.

“But after tonight, I have a lot more faith.

“We are delighted when they mentioned Kelvin MacKenzie, we've been saying this for 20 years. We don't want an apology now, but give us, if you have any remorse, the informant who spread that (wrong) news.

“When those lies were bandied around about the 96, the survivors and the 96, that's where the injustice still lies.

“Shame on him if he doesn't apologise, everybody has been asking for it. Shame on him if he doesn't.”


Pat Joynes, who lost her son Nicholas, 27, said: “It was a very good night for us, we got all that support which was wonderful, it gives us hope in our heart that the truth will finally come out.

“I was sat there thinking I was going to cry, and I did cry. And I sat there thinking about my son Nick and my other son Mark, and thinking I wish they'd been here.

“But they were here in spirit, and that's all I can hope for.

“I'm very positive about tonight. We are in touching distance. I'm sure all the truth will come out from now on.

“And quite frankly I hope The Sun goes down the same as the News of The World. They destroyed all our loves with all that rubbish.”

Jenni Hicks, who lost her two teenage daughters on the Leppings Lane, said: “I'm really pleased, for the first time in a long time I'm optimistic.

“I'm pleased that the documents being released to the panel and then the families before they are public.

“The last thing they want is for dribs and drabs to coming out in newspapers or seeing things on TV.

“I was very moved.

“Luciana Berger picked out Sarah and Vicki. She went to the same school as my daughters in Hertfordshire.

“I didn't know she was an MP now in Wavertree of all places. I was shocked that she stood up and named them, it was unbelievable.”

Paula Kadiri, Jon Paul Gilhooley's cousin, told the ECHO: “I didn't realise that they took blood from Jon-Paul, he was only 10.

“They took blood from a 10-year-old to test for alcohol and I thought that was shocking.

“When Steve Rotheram read the names out that really got to us. As it progressed, especially when the MP from the Wirral spoke (Alison McGovern), everyone felt the emotion, what she said was really good.

“We want the truth about what happened, why it happened and who was responsible for opening the gate and who spoke to The Sun.”

 
Dolores Steele, who lost her son Philip, 15, said: “It was very emotional, lots of things were being brought back from that day, but we live with it all the time.

“I didn't think I'd walk out of there and feel optimistic, but I do. It's because it was cross-party and MPs not only confined to Merseyside.

“I really want to know wht was said to Thatcher on the Sunday morning and what was decided to do. I think they decided that everyone was drunk, anyone. My husband went in to identify Philip, and he came out and said he'd just been grilled for 45 minutes.

“He was asked what time he arrived in Sheffield and what they did then. And what did they drink.

“He walked out and said to me, 'I know now, they are going to say everyone was drunk.”

Last night’s Hillsborough debate provided a “breakthrough” moment in the long fight for justice, according to MPs who took part.

But they promised to ensure that the government sticks to its word on full disclosure of the key Cabinet files. Walton’s Steve Rotheram, who won huge acclaim for how he opened the debate, said: “It was a turning point . a massive breakthrough.

“Given the promises made by David Cameron and Theresa May there is no reason why the independent panels can’t have access immediately to any material they require.

“This is not the end of the story, but it could be the end of a key chapter.”

Former Sports Secretary Andy Burnham said: “Parliament has spoken with one clear voice, the debate has now moved beyond any doubt over full disclosure.”

Garston’s Maria Eagle said: “There was unqualified recognition that this has gone on for far too long.

“The debate has strengthened the hand of the independent panel.

“We will continue to keep a close eye on developments but it really seems it is the turning point.”

Halton’s Derek Twigg, who like Mr Rotheram witnessed the disaster, said: “It now feels like we are finally looking over the top of a mountain.

“We’re not quite there yet but I trust that ministers will deliver what they have promised.”

Wirral South’s Alison McGovern, whose tearful speech summoned up still-raw emotions, said: “Parliament has spoken with one voice.

“What we want now is that the whole truth of what happened that day will become clear.”

And St Helens North’s Dave Watts said: “This has been a key move forward to ensure full knowledge so that the families, as far as anyone can, be able to draw a line under the terrible events of that day.”


http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-fc/liverpool-fc-news/2011/10/18/hillsborough-families-hail-historic-parliament-debate-as-huge-step-forward-for-justice-100252-29613113/3/#ixzz1b7GE3TdK

When i click on that video its saying private how can i get to see it Racer cant find it on Youtube??

Please can you sign this - not sure if it has it's own thread

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/19350

If this get's 100,000 people then they may well have to release this information!

Well, Steve Rotheram has just stood up in Prime Minister's Questions and asked the Prime Minister that if a systematic cover-up is proven by the release of the documents that those responsible should be brought to book.

Prime Minister said in response that he ensured the time allocated to the debate was protected. He said it is important to remember that the Taylor Inquiry was thorough and led to important changes and that he sympathises with the families of those who died.

As usual, he didn't answer one of the points that Steve Rotheram (one of a handful of 'honourable' men in there) raised.

Surprised Gow?

Cameron won't do a F***ing thing to those who aided in the cover up, so those guilty still won't be held to it.

Surprised Gow?

Cameron won't do a F***ing thing to those who aided in the cover up, so those guilty still won't be held to it.

You're right Billy the establishment will do what they do best - protect their own even when it's beyond doubt they are as guilty as F**k. They hope time will ease the injustice but do not have any answer to the relentless campaigning and have run out of scapegoats.

With all this slagging of the current administration, at least they've delivered more then the previous administration did.  It probaby still won't be enough though and we're hearing that redaction will take place, mainly medica information, but I swear I heard that some 'junior' officials names may be removed as well. 

With all this slagging of the current administration, at least they've delivered more then the previous administration did.  It probaby still won't be enough though and we're hearing that redaction will take place, mainly medica information, but I swear I heard that some 'junior' officials names may be removed as well. 

"Time" is the key word and the present government are certainly being as economical with the truth as ever the establishment were. The situation has moved on in spite of and not thanks to Cameron who has been pressured into any "concessions", not least the disclosure by law initially of previously unseen documentation.

With all this slagging of the current administration, at least they've delivered more then the previous administration did.  It probaby still won't be enough though and we're hearing that redaction will take place, mainly medica information, but I swear I heard that some 'junior' officials names may be removed as well. 

The current "administration" are only discussing it due to the e-petition. If that hadn't happened, then nothing would be said about the full disclosure. So they've only delivered more because 100,000 (and more) people have demanded so via an e-petition where the law states if such a thing happens then it must be discussed in the House Of Commons. It's the first case to ever reach such a point.

Glad these are getting released, lets hope that there can at last be Justice for the 96! - A link to a little article i've seen floating around on twitter, very heartfelt about our 96.
http://footballspeak.com/post/2011/10/18/Justice-for-the-96.aspx
JFT96 YNWA

Not really sure if Cameron and his cronies have any access to the previously unseen documention about the conduct of the witch Thatcher and her association with the secret services and police in the initial investigation - to be placed in the public forum shortly.
His apparent sympathetic stance could very well be a precursor to the enforced grovelling him and the other liars will have to undertake when the truth is told.

Not really sure if Cameron and his cronies have any access to the previously unseen documention about the conduct of the witch Thatcher and her association with the secret services and police in the initial investigation - to be placed in the public forum shortly.
His apparent sympathetic stance could very well be a precursor to the enforced grovelling him and the other liars will have to undertake when the truth is told.

Hope your right I really do, but I have a feeling it could be a massive anti climax.

David Cameron says Hillsborough families may never “achieve closure” despite files release

DAVID Cameron has warned family and friends of the Hillsborough victims may never "achieve closure" – even when all the secret documents are released.

The Prime Minister said it was wrong to liken the 1989 tragedy – in which 96 Liverpool football fans were killed – to the inquiry into Bloody Sunday which culminated in a landmark apology in the Commons.

Instead, referring to Hillsborough, Mr Cameron quoted a 19th century saying normally attributed to Charles Darwin: "It's like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there."

He also revealed some frustration his government was not receiving the credit it deserved for promising to release all documents – protesting that Andy Burnham, the Liverpool-born Labour MP, was always "on the TV".

It was Mr Burnham who, two years ago, inspired the setting up of the Hillsborough Panel to explore unanswered questions – a process continued by the Coalition government.

Last night Mr Burnham and Walton MP Steve Rotheram, who opened last week historic Hillsborough Commons debate, immediately said they would write to the prime minister requesting a face-to-face meeting because of the “worrying” developments.

They want to discuss Mr Cameron's assertion, in the Commons, the Taylor Report was a "proper and thorough investigation" – to point out that the families have much wider concerns. They also want to question Mr Cameron’s apparent suggestion, revealed by the Daily Post today, the families are searching for a truth that cannot be found.

Last week Mr Cameron was urged to apologise on behalf of the government in the manner of his apology to the people of Northern Ireland following the Saville inquiry into the Bloody Sunday killings.

But, speaking to the Daily Post at Westminster, he said: "I don't think we will ever achieve closure on Hillsborough. I don't think there will ever be one moment when you can say 'that's it', as there was with the Saville Inquiry.

"It's like, what's the saying, it's like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there."

Mr Cameron continued: "It was this government that has agreed to release the Hillsborough documents. Yet, every time I hear the word Hillsborough, I see Andy Burnham on the TV." The call for a Saville-style apology was made during the Hillsborough debate, in the Commons, by Steve Rotheram, the Walton MP and a Liverpool supporter, who was at the 1989 match, in Sheffield.

Mr Rotheram told MPs: "The Prime Minister, quite rightly, apologised for a previous government's mishandling of events when he responded to the findings of the Saville report.

"Today, I call on the Prime Minister to make a statement in this House and apologise for the mistakes that were made and the mishandling of this whole tragedy on behalf of a previous government."

Two days later Mr Cameron spoke of "regrets for all the institutions involved at the time, including the government". His latest comments suggest he will go no further – whatever the documents reveal.

Home Secretary Theresa May has pledged all government papers - including uncensored Cabinet minutes about the disaster – will be handed to the independent panel chaired by the Bishop of Liverpool James Jones. They are expected to be shared with the Hillsborough families first and then released to the wider public as part of a comprehensive, and independent, report. However, it is not clear when that will happen because the panel must research hundreds of thousands of documents and other materials relating to the tragedy.

Last night Mr Burnham said: "I'm disappointed by the Prime Minister's comments, because I went out of my way to thank him for the strength of his commitment to full disclosure.

"This is not about party politics, it's about a commitment to the whole truth being told. It seems Mr Cameron does not fully appreciate that the families' concerns go way beyond the Taylor Report."


http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2011/10/24/david-cameron-says-hillsborough-families-may-never-achieve-closure-despite-files-release-92534-29647809/#ixzz1bAgL4xnP

There's already proof that people were still alive after 3.15pm. The black cat is definitely there, but he seems more pissed off about Burnham getting the limelight. He is talking like a c**t who knows all evidence has been sorted through and what's not 'appropriate' to be revealed, has been gotten rid of.

The sly, Thatcherite, horrible tw*t.

"It's like, what's the saying, it's like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there."

Mr Cameron continued: "It was this government that has agreed to release the Hillsborough documents. Yet, every time I hear the word Hillsborough, I see Andy Burnham on the TV."

It's like a c**t being a c**t more like. Horrible, petty, power hungry, thatcherite c**t of the highest order.

It's like a blind man, in a dark room, looking for a black cat that isn't there.

That is totally offensive. Cameron needs to explain what he means or apologise for his poor choice of words. The black cat is most certainly there. I'm fuming.

Not really sure if Cameron and his cronies have any access to the previously unseen documention about the conduct of the witch Thatcher and her association with the secret services and police in the initial investigation - to be placed in the public forum shortly.
His apparent sympathetic stance could very well be a precursor to the enforced grovelling him and the other liars will have to undertake when the truth is told.

Self serving F***ing liars, the realisation that this conduct of devious deceit is right across the board is a sobering concept but make no mistake these are the very tactics these F***ing leeches use to get what they want.

       http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15433324
They're still trying to obfuscate, backtrack and transfer the blame when essentially an end is in sight to 22 year nightmare.
Lord Falconer is waffling about a technicallity  involving the previous administration and some evidence that MAY have been withheld from the 1989 Taylor enquiry.
More F***ing waffle from a head up his arse aristocrat.