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      A separate TV rights deal?

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      Macedonian_Red
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      A separate TV rights deal?
      Oct 11, 2011 10:45:03 pm
      Liverpool threaten breakaway from Premier League's TV rights deal

      • Current deal sees top-flight clubs share billions of pounds
      • Liverpool's managing director Ian Ayre raises alternative

      Andy Hunter
      Tuesday 11 October 2011

      The deal that shares television's billions equally between Premier League clubs is facing its biggest threat to date after Liverpool announced they would lead a challenge for overseas TV rights to be sold on a club-by-club basis.

      Liverpool's managing director, Ian Ayre, has insisted the break-up of the established broadcasting deal, worth £3.2bn in total to all Premier League clubs for 2010‑13, is "a debate that has to happen", with the Anfield club in favour of the Spanish model that allows Barcelona and Real Madrid to negotiate individual contracts that dwarf their domestic and European rivals.

      Since the Premier League's foundation in 1992 its success has been largely based on the principle of collective selling, where each club no matter how lowly can expect a fixed share of TV deals with "merit" awards for finishing positions as an add‑on. Changing this model would risk revolt from the smaller clubs who stand to lose most, and thus threatens the league's very structure.

      At present, the Premier League sells domestic and overseas broadcasting rights collectively and more than doubled international revenue in its last negotiations, from £625m for 2007‑10 to £1.4bn for 2010‑13. With the Premier League shown in 212 countries and having 98 broadcast partners around the world, it is expected the next deal will show a similar increase, with overseas rights potentially worth more than domestic for the first time.

      Ayre believes the Premier League's four biggest global draws – Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea and Arsenal – deserve an increased share from 2013, with overseas broadcasting having a greater influence on the Anfield club's financial future than a new stadium. "Personally I think the game-changer is going out and recognising our brand globally," said the Liverpool managing director. "Maybe the path will be individual TV rights like they do in Spain. There are so many things moving in that particular area.

      "What is absolutely certain is that, with the greatest of respect to our colleagues in the Premier League, but if you're a Bolton fan in Bolton, then you subscribe to Sky because you want to watch Bolton. Everyone gets that. Likewise, if you're a Liverpool fan from Liverpool, you subscribe. But if you're in Kuala Lumpur there isn't anyone subscribing to Astro, or ESPN to watch Bolton, or if they are it's a very small number. Whereas the large majority are subscribing because they want to watch Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea or Arsenal.

      "So is it right that the international rights are shared equally between all the clubs? Some people will say: 'Well you've got to all be in it to make it happen.' But isn't it really about where the revenue is coming from, which is the broadcaster, and isn't it really about who people want to watch on that channel? We know it is us. And others. At some point we definitely feel there has to be some rebalance on that, because what we are actually doing is disadvantaging ourselves against other big European clubs."

      It would require 14 of the Premier League's 20 members to vote in favour of a new commercial arrangement. Though Sir Alex Ferguson recently described the collective deal as "fair", albeit while insisting clubs deserved more from overseas rights, and La Liga's system has attracted widespread criticism, Ayre believes the status quo jeopardises the financial might of the Premier League.

      "If Real Madrid or Barcelona or other big European clubs have the opportunity to truly realise their international media value potential, where does that leave Liverpool and Manchester United? We'll just share ours because we'll all be nice to each other? The whole phenomenon of the Premier League could be threatened. If they just get bigger and bigger and they generate more and more, then all the players will start drifting that way and will the Premier League bubble burst because we are sticking to this equal-sharing model? It's a real debate that has to happen."

      Liverpool insist their radical proposals are limited to overseas broadcasting, although success on that front could set a precedent domestically in the long term, and the club plans to raise the issue at the next Premier League meeting. Ayre's frank admission comes almost one year on from Fenway Sports Group acquiring the club from Tom Hicks and George Gillett in the high court and, along with broadcasting revenue, another major financial decision to be resolved by the American owners remains whether to construct a new stadium or redevelop their current home, Anfield.

      Liverpool's managing director insists the club are pursuing "a parallel course" on both options, with planning regulations complicating the redevelopment of Anfield and the financial benefits of a new-build uncertain, although Ayre admits the latter option is only viable with a naming rights deal. "We have been in discussions here and in other parts of the world with a small group of people that we have narrowed down that we are targeting for naming rights. That is an absolute catalyst to building a new stadium. The economics just don't stack up without it.

      "When will the decision be made? It'll only be when we reach an answer with both. It's hard to put a time on it. If you put a deadline on the naming rights, then you start to marginalise the deal. We aren't desperate. We think we have an amazing proposition as one of the biggest clubs in the world. I don't recall any football club of this size with this international reach that's ever done a naming rights deal. It is quite unique in that sense. Barcelona, Real Madrid and Manchester United haven't. Nobody in football has done this at this level. It's new ground and it will take what it takes."

      Ayre, along with the former Liverpool chairman Martin Broughton, ex-chief executive Christian Purslow and Fenway Sports Group, remains the subject of a £1bn lawsuit filed by Hicks and Gillett over the events surrounding their departure last October. "It's an unwanted and unwelcome distraction. That's their prerogative but we remain extremely confident that we did the right thing," he said. The Liverpool MD offered his resignation to John W Henry following FSG's victory in the high court, and admits the five-times European champions could have entered administration had Hicks and Gillett retained control.

      "Certainly the bank had the power to call in the debt and at the time there wasn't anyone ready to take on that debt. So I guess the answer to that [would Liverpool have gone into administration] is yes. It's hypothetical but based on where we were and based on the circumstances at the time that was a very real threat. That was the case in the final hours. That was one of the other routes we could have gone down."

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/11/liverpool-breakaway-tv-deal
      « Last Edit: Oct 12, 2011 09:46:28 pm by redkenny »
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #1: Oct 11, 2011 10:57:21 pm
      It's the 'pull the ladder up jack and sod the rest' attitude that created the Premier League in the first place.

      Barca and Real get slated for killing La Liga by taking all the TV money leaving F**k all for the rest and letting other clubs go bankrupt. The same thing would happen here.

      Let us, United, Chelsea and Arsenal get loads of money. What happens when the other teams can't compete, do we create our own league?
      Macedonian_Red
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #2: Oct 11, 2011 10:59:59 pm
      What happens when the other teams can't compete, do we create our own league?

      We join the European Super League, of course ...
      MiciG91
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #3: Oct 11, 2011 11:06:49 pm
      It really does show how greedy football has become,I can't blame Liverpool for doing this because it really is all about money these day's sigh :/
      Diego LFC
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #4: Oct 11, 2011 11:09:44 pm
      Good for the big clubes, awful for the so called 'competitive balance.' When I had a course in Italy earlier this year, I heard from the mouth of an Italian FA director (not that it was necessary, it's quite obvious) how bad it was for competitiveness when their clubs had individual tv deals in Italy. Now it's happening with Brazil and there's a tendency our league will lose one of its most interesting aspects - the unpredictability.

      The sports industry is odd in the aspect that you can't kill your competitors, cause a club alone doesn't have much value at all. I appreciate the efforts from our directors to seek Liverpool's best interests, but I'm not a big fan of the idea to be honest.
      s@int
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #5: Oct 11, 2011 11:13:27 pm
      Like the 39th game, its all about money and nothing about the good of the game .
      JC16
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #6: Oct 11, 2011 11:14:00 pm
      At least we will be up front about how we can get through the Fair Play Rules.  Better than a bogus 400 million pound investment from a long lost brother.
      bigears
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #7: Oct 11, 2011 11:17:37 pm
      No way will 14 of the 20 let this happen forget it ,and as for joining a european super league we already have it ,it"s called champions league and we"re not in it, i"m all for the club making money but this is a step too far, yeah people in Kuala Lumpur pay to watch Liverpool and the mancs play but remember it"s the small teams that inflict the damage alot of the time and give us great entertainment .It"s not the peoples game anymore and hasn"t been for a long time.
      chats
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #8: Oct 11, 2011 11:47:02 pm
      Won't happen.

      14 clubs won't go for this.
      Macedonian_Red
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #9: Oct 12, 2011 12:04:40 am
      as for joining a european super league we already have it ,it"s called champions league and we"re not in it
      Totally different concepts, I am afraid ... The European Super League already exists, but only in financial reports ...



      You can find the majority of the future members of the European Super League in that table ... And if you'd like further analysis ...

       


      bigears
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #10: Oct 12, 2011 12:15:10 am
      We can barely afford to go to Anfield to watch a match let alone go to Milan or Hamburg ,get real .
      Macedonian_Red
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #11: Oct 12, 2011 01:08:54 am
      We can barely afford to go to Anfield to watch a match let alone go to Milan or Hamburg ,get real .

      In fact, I am being very real ... This is why the TV rights have such a big role ...

      Attending away fixtures is pretty much an unknown category in most big professional sports ...
      jamo174
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #12: Oct 12, 2011 01:45:38 am
      I understand why, but the money thing is getting out of control.
      HUYTON RED
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #13: Oct 12, 2011 02:54:59 am
      Attending away fixtures is pretty much an unknown category in most big professional sports ...

      And that's what the marketing fuckers don't understand, football is different, look at the mob Croatia brought to Wembley in 2007, look at our fans who will travel ANYWHERE to watch us, 3 - 4,000 went over to Japan in 2005.

      A European Super would be sh*te anyway, rather stick with playing in our own league and try qualifying for Europe.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #14: Oct 12, 2011 04:08:28 am
      A European Super League is a f**king stupid idea, I hate seeing it brought up.

      As much as I like Ayre and our owners looking at options, this is not really a good idea for obvious reasons.
      Baustinsali08
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #15: Oct 12, 2011 05:39:59 am
      The European Super League is pointless. You are telling me fans are going to go from the city of Liverpool to the likes of Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc... every other weekend? The Champions League is fine. All the European Super League would do is kill the leagues in each country. For instance, the Liverpool derby would become non-existent because there is no way in hell that Everton would make it into a Super League.
      billythered
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #16: Oct 12, 2011 05:53:36 am
      The final nail in the football coffin as we know it, there is already to much money in the game now,you only have to look back to the Tevez sh*t to see what kind of attitude that has been created,
       and just like the society we live in today the cream will rise to the top while the grunge sinks to the bottom, the have's and the have nots has been in existence for years,
       the powers that be said the money created by the the new world order of the premier league would filter down to grass roots level football,
       well does it bollocks, its the marketing kunts at it again, distancing football from the masses, yet its the masses who will ultimately pay the price,
      this is capitalism at its worst, this the F**k you jack i'm ok attitude of the Thatcher years, which incidently still exists today, sadly,
      and why our country is in such a f***in sh*t state by the way,
      anyhow i hope it does not come about but, somehow i think we are fighting a losing battle, and the greedy kunts will get their way,

      Shanks must be spinning in his grave !
      IrishRed_IO
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #17: Oct 12, 2011 07:16:26 am
      Will never happen. The way it's done now is to try maintain competitive balance. However I could see each club being allowed to broadcast non sky games on their club tv channel. Who would then subsequently charge a fee for the season. That is the only alternative.

      If clubs start negotiating tv rights, say goodbye to a few teams in the bottom ten.
      Macedonian_Red
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #18: Oct 12, 2011 08:24:19 am
      The European Super League is pointless. You are telling me fans are going to go from the city of Liverpool to the likes of Germany, Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc... every other weekend?

      That is where you get it wrong ... Less than 5% of LFC supporters live on Merseyside, and less than 10% in England ... They will have the chance of attending the home games ... The rest of us will have the chance of attending the away games ... As for the European Super League being pointless or not, the money men will have the final say on that ...

      If clubs start negotiating tv rights, say goodbye to a few teams in the bottom ten.

      Of course, these clubs could also move their arses and start pursuing commercial revenue, instead of sitting comfortably and waiting for the guaranteed TV money ...
      racerx34
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #19: Oct 12, 2011 08:24:58 am
      None of the lower teams are going to vote for this. Why would they vote for something that strips them of valuable TV money. They'll end up having to sell players or go bust. No lower club in their right mind would sanction that. The Spanish system is a disgrace. Two clubs get most of the money. Of course nobody will ask them to change unless the smaller clubs revolted.
      Dannylfc
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #20: Oct 12, 2011 08:53:44 am
      No. Just no.

      Far too much money in the game as it is.
      bigvYNWA
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #21: Oct 12, 2011 08:59:39 am
      That is where you get it wrong ... Less than 5% of LFC supporters live on Merseyside, and less than 10% in England ... They will have the chance of attending the home games ... The rest of us will have the chance of attending the away games ... As for the European Super League being pointless or not, the money men will have the final say on that ...

      Of course, these clubs could also move their arses and start pursuing commercial revenue, instead of sitting comfortably and waiting for the guaranteed TV money ...


      What F***ing world do you live in? Money men having final say?! No they don't. The fans do. A superleague would create shallow stadiums full of suits with no atmosphere because the tickets would cost too much (they already do, but they'd be even more) for any real fans to get to a game.

      Yes, the money would come in. The league would be a "success" based on money im sure, as many fans world over would still watch. But the games would lose their soul, no more scrappy hard fought wins against Stoke at home, no passionate fights up in St James Park. Thats why i love the english game and Liverpool, it's a civil war in every game.

      It would be a financial success maybe - but it would kill the soul of the game, and thats what REALLY matters. And on that front, it WOULD be pointless. Because regardless of the Barca's of the world, i still look forward to a scrap with the bitters in the league more than i ever would a game against them, or Milan, or anything like that. I'd hope I'm speaking for many fans when i say that.

      Anyways, gonna be interesting to watch the debate on Ayres move on this front over the following days. Already seeing some idiotic comments online about it (many of them stinking of blueshite bitterness).

      Macedonian_Red
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      Re: A separate TV rights deal ?
      Reply #22: Oct 12, 2011 09:01:43 am
      None of the lower teams are going to vote for this.

      Of course they wouldn't ... Anyone would want to share the profits made by someone else ... Personally, I am disgusted by clubs like Wigan, scrapping their way to survival every season, and waiting for their undeserved share of the guaranteed money ...

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