Failure to kill off games. Is it killing our title hopes?

There has been a growing trend this season for an awful lot of Liverpool games. Brilliant 1st half. Free-flowing football. Movement, passing, directness, pace. Dominance in terms of play. But not in terms of goals. We usually lead at the break at HT by just the 1 goal, but in terms of play it seems like much much more.

We seem to come out after the break like a totally different team. Our passing is not the same, our directness is still not there. The whole team seems to relax, sit back and expect someone else (Suarez) to conjure something out of nothing, to do the creating and the goal we need to kill of the game.

Our failure to kill of games is seriously hurting us this season. How many times have we been the dominant team, failed to kill them off, and drop points. Three games spring to mind instantly. Sunderland + Norwich at home, Stoke away. All 3 games, we were clearly the dominant team, yet only come out of all 3 games with just 3 points. 9 should have been acquired.

This failure to kill of teams has an effect through the team.  As we are failing to score, we are also conceding goals. Many which draw teams level with us, and something we fail to come back against. We have only kept 2 clean sheets this season, and in both instances the opposition had a man sent off. We have conceded in each of our last 6 games at Anfield.

Is the critical factor of this failure to kill off games our lack of a clinical striker? In the Norwich City game alone, we had 29 shots at goal. This resulted in just 1 goal. Luis Suarez had 11 alone, yet none resulted in a goal. 38 times this season a PL team has had fewer shots themselves than he had in 1 game. Unfortunately, Suarez is not the clinical striker we need. He is the creator.

Up until the Norwich game ( our first 8 games of the season ), we had a chance conversion rate of 9%. That is awful for a team that is looking to finish in a top 4 place, let alone challenge for any honours.

It still is early days in the season so all hope is not gone. We still have 29 games to go and many points to challenge for. We are still only 1 place off of a CL spot. But truly, we all know that the way we play lately, we should have a much higher goals and points tally. We should be higher up the table. Some of the football we are playing is brilliant, but our lack of clinical finishing is seriously hurting our season. Already. Will it be addressed, either on the training field or will it be addressed in January?

 We certainly should of put Norwich to bed in the first 15 minutes.

It definitely is!!

Imagine if we had beaten Sunderland, Stoke, Man United and Norwich? We'd be top with 24 points.

It is more annoying because we played at Anfield in 3 or those 4 games.

And in matches, if you're 2 or 3 up after about half an hour, a goal conceded won't hurt us or better yet, there's a possibility we go on and score more.

Top teams finish all these "lesser" clubs quickly.

It definitely is!!

Imagine if we had beaten Sunderland, Stoke, Man United and Norwich? We'd be top with 24 points.

It is more annoying because we played at Anfield in 3 or those 4 games.

Now Im proper depressed!!

In short yes, we don't have a clinical finisher in the team. I know that's what everyone is hoping Andy will become, but can we afford to sit around waiting? Id like to see us buy a aging poacher in Jan, so as to leave Andy room to develop but ensure waiting for him to hit form doesn't f*ck our champs league chances

In fairness, we do need a clinical striker. We need him now, not wait around for one player we hope will be a clinical striker to get fit. We need him before it's too late. Spurs are 2 points behind with 2 games in hand and if Arsenal beat Stoke, they are also 2 points behind us. All while the teams ahead of us keep  gaining points.

In fairness anyone that thought we were going to league this season really wasnt living in reality

In fairness anyone that thought we were going to league this season really wasnt living in reality

Every team starts off on 0 points and has 38 games to play. If you look at the way we have played in the majority of games, who would disagree that we couldn't win the league. As said above, if had taken our chances in the games, we would have 24 points and be top of the league now.

Yeh i think winning was a long shot but 4th seems more achievable still plenty of time but worrying we are dropping points at home and so many tough away games to come

Every team starts off on 0 points and has 38 games to play. If you look at the way we have played in the majority of games, who would disagree that we couldn't win the league. As said above, if had taken our chances in the games, we would have 24 points and be top of the league now.

But if everyone took the chances they would be top of the league

How long has this been going on against the lower teams, you just know whats coming next week

The Toon are 4 points in front.
Norwich 3 points behind.
Dont mention Stoke or Spurs.

Reality.

Its like 08/09 but a lot worse because at least then we came 2nd.

Suarez has got to score after his brilliant skill early on. Carroll has got to score in the last minute! Its sickening. Should have been 2 or 3-0 at half time.

And then one sh*te piece of goalkeeping and bang the cu*ts are level and thanks to some class keeping we keep the lead. Kenny needs to get them doing a lot more finishing in training because as Adryan said, if we had been composed we would be F***ing top! Gutted at the moment. F***ing sick!

It's more amazing that we've been failing to beat the teams we SHOULD be beating without any excuses.

Beating your rivals alone are not enough to be at the top of the table and the end of the season, you have to kill all the lesser sides and make yourself feared.

I really fear for Kenny if we dont get top 4 I really do, FSG have shown there ruthless streak with the Red Sox and I think we will be doing well to get top 4. Before I get slated I would give Kenny 10 years if he wants it and then replace him with Rafa.

 I dont think this season will meet the expectations of a lot on here. For me City Chelsea and Utd are streets ahead of anyone else and until we match there spending they will stay miles ahead

Probably, however it does highlight how important Lucas is for us!

To me to win a title we need to spend another about 60 million on a dominant centre half a striker and a right midfielder without anyone leaving

Probably, however it does highlight how important Lucas is for us!

I totally agree with this and i've not been his biggest fan in the past but it's games like today that show how important he is to us!

I maybe wrong on this but now things have settled in the boardroom and club maybe its affecting our play,when we had the thieves in charge there was a collective in the team we were the incredibles with a never die attitude,we put some teams to the sword we were F***ing relentless.

Im not sure whats going on in the team but something just aint clicking.

Firstly, we're only 9 games in, so we have about 29 games left.

What happened today was that we missed heaps of chances. FFS, we didnt lose, but we should've won. Some we're saying 29 shots? The EPL site says 15 on target, 15 off target. It only accentuates the boys are creating heaps of chances and their failure to be clinical. Maybe Kenny should've threw in Carroll earlier, but then again, Kenny know best.

Like i said before, we're only 9 games in and its not too late imo. All the lads have to do if practice their finishing, for us to be deadly and their attitude when their a goal up. Kenny knows what he needs to do next for us to advance.

Is it killing our hopes? It's too early to tell, but i know it won't be if they make things right!

15 + 15 = 30 ~ 29!

I mean .. if it happens every now and then, it's more acceptable but it's happened 4 out of 9 games this season and it's not a good sign at all.

Look at what two drawn home games in 2008/2009 cost us.

How did we miss lucas today he wouldnt have scored or stopped the goal. We played great for most of the game but are absolutely terrible infront of goal. We created loads and lucas wouldnt have won us the game. A few weeks ago it was because we missed gerrard. The problem is we have a defence that is always prone to leaking goals and in suarez we have an excellent creative player but a sh*te finisher honestly he cant finish he gets too excited infront of goal hes not cool enough. But this sh*te we missed lucas is bollox. I love lucas but he wouldn have won us the game. And we havent a hope of winning the league wer not near united or city. And i have a feeling wel struggle for fourth

Firstly, we're only 9 games in, so we have about 29 games left.

There is an elephant in the room, and it is impossible to ignore it. We have a problem converting our chances and keeping a clean sheet, and it is becoming a pattern now. Sunderland, Stoke, Mancs, Norwich. Those are 4 matches (3 at home) where we have failed to convert our numerous chances, or to keep a clean sheet, and have dropped points because of it. The problem will not just go away. Kenny needs to change something on a big scale. It might be the system we are playing, or his team selection. In any case, if we continue at this rate, finishing 4th would be just a dream.

By the way, here are some comparative stats from last season, and this season, under Kenny:

2010/11 season:

Matches played: 18
Points per game: 1.83
Goals per game (scored): 1.94
Goals per game (conceded): 0.94

2011/12 season:

Matches played: 9
Points per game: 1.67
Goals per game (scored): 1.33
Goals per game (conceded): 1.11

As you can see, we are scoring less and conceding more than last season under Kenny. I am not saying that it is time to hit the panic button, but changes need to be made. Personally, I would start by going back to the 4-4-1-1 system that Kenny was playing in the spring.

Carroll

Suarez (Bellamy)

Downing (Maxi) - Lucas (Spearing) - Gerrard (Adam) - Kuyt (Henderson)

Enrique (Aurelio) - Agger (Coates) - Skrtel (Carragher) - Johnson (Kelly)

Reina (Doni)

We should keep it simple, and play to our strengths. Let the other teams worry about Carroll's aerial dominance, and Suarez' mobility and trickery. Build our game around these two attacking players, and the goals (and points) will arrive.

The team is playing well and creating chances the selection isnt the problem its piss poor finishing

The team is playing well and creating chances the selection isnt the problem its piss poor finishing

Come back Roger Hunt and Ian Rush all is forgiven.

The team is playing well and creating chances the selection isnt the problem its piss poor finishing

It is not that simple, I am afraid. The poor finishing is a big part of the problem, but our inability to keep a clean sheet is an even bigger problem. Had we managed to keep a clean sheet against Sunderland, Stoke, Mancs and Norwich (conceded a single goal in every match), we would've had 7 more points, and would've been firmly into the title race. Not to mention that we've actually had the lead in 3 of those matches. As I have pointed out, we are conceding more goals at the moment (1.11), than we have conceded last season under the same manager (0.94). For comparison, in our best season in recent years (2008/09), we have conceded 0.71 goals per game. And the numbers of goals conceded is not a responsibility of the defence alone. Our defending should be starting much higher up the pitch.

It's definitely seriously damaged any title hopes we had.

I mean had we taken a quarter of our chances and we'd be in and around the top of the table. But we aren't.

We're playing decent stuff which is good, but just need to finish the chances.

title hopes? I never thought of going to this season and having a go at the title, our team is not even close to Chelsea's Mancs and Man city's team. I'm starting to wonder if we are going to get a CL spot after a game like today! Again we are unable to kill off the game due to lack of finishing. Again, whats up with out subs? why aren't we using our subs earlier to kill off the game? or maybe change things for example bringing spearing on to protect the back four?

Obviously it is. Along with conceding goals.

But we're not even halfway through Kennys first full season yet and turning teams into title winners doesn't happen over night.

One thing we are doing though is creating chances. Mainly through Suarez. If some other players get involved, we'll create more. And then that will mean more goals. And that can only help title hopes.

We have been playing some amazing football especially for a team that needs more time to gel in my opinion.

I really fear for Kenny if we dont get top 4 I really do, FSG have shown there ruthless streak with the Red Sox and I think we will be doing well to get top 4. Before I get slated I would give Kenny 10 years if he wants it and then replace him with Rafa.

 I dont think this season will meet the expectations of a lot on here. For me City Chelsea and Utd are streets ahead of anyone else and until we match there spending they will stay miles ahead

I totally agree.

We have been playing some amazing football

Not really. We have been playing some amazing football, but only for part of the games. Our overall play is still terribly unbalanced. For 15 minutes, we look like a team that could destroy Barca, and for the next 15 minutes, we look like a League Two team. It will probably improve with time, once Kenny settles for his best XI.

Maybe saying title-challenge was a bit of an over-reach.

A lot of people are comparing it to the 08-09 season. The difference then was we were not conceding goals, this year we are. Nearly every game this season we have, in all competitions.

Look at the goals wev conceded there all down to poor defending. Skrtel is a liability to me and carra is starting to get there. They can be solid for 80 mins then just make a serious F**k up. I think wel seriously struggle for top 4

The 100 plus million Kenny spent needed to be spent on top quality first and foremost to improve our starting 11 and give us a far better chance of CLl football next season . any potential should have been done behind the scenes and added to the reserves. I have seen absolutely nothing from hendo to suggest hes worth 20 mil . in fact ive seen more quality in spearing who last season was excellent for us,set the pace and got up and down the pitch well and cost nothing.  Downing, Carroll and Adam have all been mediocre to above average on occasion. For the money spent i would expect a better quality of player. Folr 20M and 35M respectively we should be getting a gamechanger, a player who turns 1/2 games. Downing ? His stats were poor even at Villa. He was always mediocre. Carroll? One good half a season in te premier league. We panicked after the Torres sale. The new owners were only in the door and had to save face with the fans and after losing Torres, they had to act.  We have spent badly in my opinion.  That has been  the case more often than npt at liverpool the past 20 years. Ineffective management in the transfer market

1. Failure to kill off games. 29 shots against Norwich, one single goal? Like little Luis said, we got one hell of a strikeforce but minus the clinical finisher. Got to have someone Nistelrooyish (what a word) to do the job. Luis is great but hell he couldn't do it on his own.

2.Lack of composure. Happens everytime after we went AWOL. Time period 55-90th minute of the game. On the 55th we went AWOL and let them grow into the game. Gaping hole in the midfield just because we sit deep and let them attack. 80th minute, gung-ho mode and put in streams of attack but lacked the penetrative passes and the accuracy. Too much premature passes and crosses. Mistimed, overhit, too direct and weak passes.The urge to get something sometimes cost us when they counter attacked us.

3.Not bringing the game to our opponents. Happens at the same time when we went AWOL. Against the lesser teams, we seem to suffer from a serious illness of complacency. After we got the lead, we let them get into the game and inviting trouble for us. Even when we play at Anfield somehow it looks as if we're playing somewhere else.

4.Wrong kind of players for  the right kind of situations. With Suarez against Norwich, we always look to our flanks to supply the crosses when he's not the tallest guy in the box. With him we need to play a more direct and open game as he's mobile and agile. But when Carroll came in, we changed to a more direct and pass game. We didn't use our flanks often.

5.Wrong time of substitutions. Not to blame Kenny as this also happened during Rafa's era. Often our substitution came in late and hell it didn't have any effect on the game.

This are what I see the problems we're facing right now. Some of us may beg to differ because everyone sees everything from their point of view.

There is no work in progress, another myth.  You buy mediocrity and put it in the team you end up with a mediocre team.It realy is that simple. Kenny is not going to cut the mustard this time around. At the point of selling torres the fork in the road forked..He chose the wrong route and went on to buy duds.No hind sight about it.it was glaring at the time.Obviously i or no one else could tell him but i for one wanted to scream at him wtf are you doing buying that crap kenny. It was at that defining fork in the road that i ..and a few others...had to let the king go his own way..he was/is the king after all but it was clear he got it wrong.  His buys have been poor.  Mediocre british joureymen who weren't proven quality. Carroll and Downing are and will prove to be disastrous buys for 55M combined.  We had a chance to really step up the plate and progress with the money at our disposal but we bought terribly

There is no work in progress, another myth.  You buy mediocrity and put it in the team you end up with a mediocre team.It realy is that simple. Kenny is not going to cut the mustard this time around. At the point of selling torres the fork in the road forked..He chose the wrong route and went on to buy duds.No hind sight about it.it was glaring at the time.Obviously i or no one else could tell him but i for one wanted to scream at him wtf are you doing buying that crap kenny. It was at that defining fork in the road that i ..and a few others. had to let the king go his own way..he was/is the king after all but it was clear he got it wrong.  His buys have been poor.  Mediocre british joureymen who weren't proven quality. Carroll and Downing are and will prove to be disastrous buys for 55M combined.  We had a chance to really step up the plate and progress with the money at our disposal but we bought terribly

Every has the right to their opinion but thats a pretty sweeping statement to make for someone with 7 posts.
You sure you are on the right forum?

There is no work in progress, another myth.

Stop embarrassing yourself. Creating a title challenging team is always a process. Ferguson has won his first Premier League title in his 6th season with the Mancs. Chelsea have spend £120 million (net) under Ranieri, and another £110 million (net) under Maureen, before they have won their first Premier League title. Man City have already spent £400+ million (net) in the past 5 seasons, and are yet to win a Premier League title. It is always a work in progress.

There is a work in a progress.

We have just gone through our two worst seasons in the league in the last 10 years with no thanks to a a poor season with Rafa, a mediocre manager in Roy Hodgson and off the pitch issues - Purslow, Hicks and Gillett and all.

We lost so many world class players in that short span - Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano and Fernando Torres. We've also lost a fair good amount of decent players in Alvaro Arbeloa and Yossi Benayoun. Under Roy and probably Rafa's last season, these players were "replaced" with inferior players.

We've got new owners now, for barely over a year, who have spent tons of money. Yeah, some results aren't ideal but we're a much better side than back in 2010. It's not only a major concern to replace the calibre of players we've lost, it's also difficult to bring back the winning mentality of the players that underwent two (err, one and a half) horrendous seasons with the club.

It took Ferguson 6/7 years to win his first league title. And back when they started dominating in around 2001 ... they themselves have spent shitload of cash - Ferdinand (30 mil, 2001), Ronaldo (13 mil, 2003) and between 2004-2009, they've spent almost 20 million EACH on Nani, Anderson, Carrick, Berbatov, Rooney and Hargreaves and that was BEFORE they even sold Ronaldo for 80 mil. Then you add Ashley Young, Valencia and De Gea all costing around 20 million.

Manchester City and Chelsea went through the same process. They got billionaires who instantly spent tons on money in their first season. This resulted in Chelsea getting to league titles back to back. Quality players yield results almost straight away. I wouldn't be surprised if Man City themselves won the league this season.

Though some players aren't there anymore, they've spent Robinho (32 mil), Bridge (10 mil), Bellamy (14 mil), De Jong (16 mil) all in 2008/2009. In 2009/2010, they bought Barry (12 mil), Santa Cruz (18 mil), Tevez (30 mil?), Adebayor (25 mil) and Toure (16 mil), Lescott (22 mil) and Johnson (?? mil).  Last season, they signed Boating (10 mil), Silva (25 mil), Yaya Toure (26 mil), Kolarov (16 mil), Balotelli (23 mil), James Milner (24 mil) and Edin Dzeko (27 mil).

This season, Nasri (22 mil) and Aguero (35 mil) arrived. The total spent in 3 years amounts to 403 million and this is excluding all the players that cost less than 10 million. And not all their players turned out to be successful.

While money does not guarantee success, it definitely helps a shiteload. We've only spend a quarter of Man City's spending. Yeah, we spent more than a 100 million this year but that is natural as we've just got taken over wheares other clubs like City, United, Chelsea and maybe even Real and Barcelona had spent significantly less than us during the same time is due to the fact that they've spent tons on players they've got before we were taken over.

Two sh*te seasons with first half of 2010 being the lowest any Liverpool fan had felt. A new manager. New players (we freaking changed half of the squad!). Mentality to be fixed and expectations to be meet is a work in progress.

It is early days we have only played 9 and got 29 to go, got to think of the long all and not always the short term players take time to bond together as a unit.
This is not to say that there are not areas of weakness that need to be addressed and i think that Kenny will seriously have to look at our defence in the January transfer window 

There is no work in progress, another myth.

I can't put my finger on it but your writing 'style' and content looks very familiar but I digress.

On the point above: surely every team aspiring to either the title or a top four finish, after lowly finishes previously, are a work in progress? Whether or not you, or me, like the players we bought (or would have preferred others) the fact remains, with half a team being replaced - it was always going to be a work in progress.

Some of us hoped and believed 'the work' would bear fruits earlier than it has. Some of us (yourself included) don't believe it ever will - that's fair enough mate - it's your opinion. We need to get things right, correct some mistakes and put the chances away but (in my opinion) it's just too early to be so disparaging and non-supportive.

I can't put my finger on it but your writing 'style' and content looks very familiar but I digress.

Ignore him, Donnie Brasco Joe D Pistone is clearly some undercover mole who thinks he's far too clever for his own good, capiche.

give the lads time starting at stoke in midweek we will  really begin our season

give the lads time starting at stoke in midweek we will  really begin our season

That's what we said after Sunderland and Stoke.

Perhaps it is time to give a youngster their chance up front

Perhaps it is time to give a youngster their chance up front

Andy is only 22. Young enough?

Andy is only 22. Young enough?

Yes.

I have said on a few occasions that Andy needs to start around 4 or 5 games in a row, no matter what.

The 100 plus million Kenny spent needed to be spent on top quality first and foremost to improve our starting 11 and give us a far better chance of CLl football next season . any potential should have been done behind the scenes and added to the reserves. I have seen absolutely nothing from hendo to suggest hes worth 20 mil . in fact ive seen more quality in spearing who last season was excellent for us,set the pace and got up and down the pitch well and cost nothing.  Downing, Carroll and Adam have all been mediocre to above average on occasion. For the money spent i would expect a better quality of player. Folr 20M and 35M respectively we should be getting a gamechanger, a player who turns 1/2 games. Downing ? His stats were poor even at Villa. He was always mediocre. Carroll? One good half a season in te premier league. We panicked after the Torres sale. The new owners were only in the door and had to save face with the fans and after losing Torres, they had to act.  We have spent badly in my opinion.  That has been  the case more often than npt at liverpool the past 20 years. Ineffective management in the transfer market

what the hell are you oon about..manc

It definitely is!!

Imagine if we had beaten Sunderland, Stoke, Man United and Norwich? We'd be top with 24 points.

It is more annoying because we played at Anfield in 3 or those 4 games.

And in matches, if you're 2 or 3 up after about half an hour, a goal conceded won't hurt us or better yet, there's a possibility we go on and score more.

Top teams finish all these "lesser" clubs quickly.

All true.
However its only the first season with the new players together.

So much yelling and shouting about our finishing but just wonder whether we are doing anything about in training or just some usual jogging around the pitch and stroking the ball in a 5-a side match. Week in week out same old story suggests that we are not addressing this problem seriously. Hope the trend doesn't continue.

A simple answer to a simple question... Yes. 29 attempts and only 1 goal is a perfect example of our current issues with a lack of clinical finishing, how we might begin to fix that is a separate issue.

 We need match winners in as many positions as possible.

 At this moment IMO Stevie G, Suarez and Bellamy are the only players I would expect to score if a chance came there way in the last few minutes of a tight game

 When I look at Man U, Man City and Chelsea I feel goals can come from anywhere   

Not really. We have been playing some amazing football, but only for part of the games. Our overall play is still terribly unbalanced. For 15 minutes, we look like a team that could destroy Barca, and for the next 15 minutes, we look like a League Two team. It will probably improve with time, once Kenny settles for his best XI.

Not amazing agreed, but if we'd even converted a quarter of our chances we'd be sitting 2nd at worst.

Not amazing agreed, but if we'd even converted a quarter of our chances we'd be sitting 2nd at worst.

True, but we have sold our only natural finisher in January. It will take time before Suarez and Carroll develop a good partnership that would replace Torres' goals.

With over a 100 million spent the players we have brought are not helping our cause really saurez tries hard every game and will come good. Also enrique offers consistency but hendo,carroll, downing are sub standard adam is hot and cold. also our over 30 players are looking very ordinary.If we dont improve then no champions league for us, then we will have a hard time attracting good players.   

Look at the goals wev conceded there all down to poor defending. Skrtel is a liability to me and carra is starting to get there. They can be solid for 80 mins then just make a serious f**k up. I think wel seriously struggle for top 4

You agree with the opening poster like the rest of us then.

If we took our chances then the odd mistake at the back wouldnt matter.

Results like Saturday do not help matters.

At the end of the day, 1 goal or 10 per game, the defence has to be switchedo on for 90+ minutes.

Unfortunately, I felt Reina was at fault for their goal at the weekend... But hey, we all have bad days at work!

Our home record has not been brilliant since the unbeaten season. As I mentioned last season, teams do not fear coming to Anfield anymore, and we need to get that mentality back. Teams should be scared of coming here, and not playing for draws/wins.

Nothing less than 6 points out of the next 2 games will be good enough. West Brom (A) and Swansea (H)....2 wins in these games, and we should be able to get a result @ Chelsea.

You agree with the opening poster like the rest of us then.

If we took our chances then the odd mistake at the back wouldnt matter.

Ye but you shouldnt be expecting to concede a goal a game. You wont always go out and batter teams like sat. We need to start keeping clean sheets as much as we need to start finishing our chances. Look at the goals wev conceded some of them are horrendous defending.

If Pepe had come and got the centre or Carrgher had headed it clear would we be having these threads? 1-0 and a host of close chances would appear much healthier but the fact would still remain we are  not scoring freely depsite many chances to do so.I am confused now about Andy Carrol (regardless of his cost which is irrelvant ) how are we going to use him? I would like to see Andy Carrol up front with Gerrard just behind him. If that dosent improve things we will then at least have the Jan transfer windows to try and find a genuine goal scorer.Scoring just 12 goals in 9 games and conceeding 10 means results like saturday's are going to happen an awful lot this season.
Why is it we have always been just one or two players short for the last 20 years.

At the rate we're going now, I have to say "Yes". It's a lot of points dropped, and ffs, 6 points at Anfield. It's just not good enough.

Teams used to fear coming to Anfield, cause they knew that there was nothing in it for them, but not any longer.

If we took our chances we had before the break on Saturday, then it would've killed off the game for them.

We definitely need to get back to winning ways, and start killing off these f***ing lesser teams. I'm still very much optimistic that we'll start banging e'm in soon, or. 

Yes it is obviously. To win the title we need to finish above Utd & City we cant draw home at home to the likes of Norwich & have title asperations. We cant draw at home to the likes of Norwich & expect to finish above Spurs ffs.
Home wins are a must if we're to qualify for the Champions league never mind winning the title.

I only saw (live) the first 8ish minutes of the game on Saturday due to work, I saw Suarez hit the post (and nearly score twice), Skrtel nearly score and a couple of other close chances... I honestly thought I'd come home to see the board after a full on battering of Norwich. It's a perfect example of the root of our problem, creating chances are fine, but making the net ripple is all that counts.

Equally though, I was much more satisfied with the team selection, it looked attacking (Downing, Bellamy, Suarez, Kuyt)... I'd like to see those 4 playing in the same team more regularly, could defo see a good striking relationship between Kuyt and Suarez over time.

Yes, but it's night and day to last season, these teams were playing us off the park under the barn owl.

Chilax !

I know creating chances are very, very important. I've stressed before but there is no point creating them if we don't convert them. Surely creating more means we have a higher chance of winning games but all that matters at the end of the day is how many enter the net.

It's okay if it happens off and on but it's been happening far too often for my liking. Look what two draws at Anfield cost us in 2008/2009.

Our defence is sometimes so clumsy it gives me a nervous breakdown. We have to put more pressure on teams. Also nerd to sign a player like Suarez, Silva, Nasri so we get more creativity.

Don't think this tells us anything we didn't know but interesting to see the full stats nonethe less

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/15470953.stm

BBC Sport
Liverpool count the cost of slack shooting
06:38 GMT, Friday, 28 October 2011 07:38 UK
By Mike Henson
BBC Sport
 Luis Suarez has four Premier League goals this season It is a early in the season for "what-ifs" but Liverpool fans can already imagine quite a different campaign.

Lying sixth in the table, they could be Manchester City's closest challengers at the top of the table, if they had kept a tighter grip on the leads they have established at Anfield.

On Saturday the Reds peppered the Norwich goal with 25 shots, but found the net with just one before being pegged back by the Canaries
A week before a subdued Manchester United had departed Merseyside with a point despite falling behind while Sunderland emerged from under the cosh to take a draw on the opening day of the season.

Victories in those three matches would have carried Liverpool to second.

POINTS LOST FROM WINNING POSITIONS
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•16. Blackburn -5
•17. WBA - 5
•18. Wigan - 5
•19. Liverpool - 6
•20. Villa - 7
If the Reds had taken something from their trip to Stoke where they had 11 shots on target compared to the host's solitary, successful, strike, that position would be even more comfortable.

Instead the Merseysiders are second only to Aston Villa in the number of points surrendered from winning positions this season.

Manager Kenny Dalglish invested heavily in midfielders over the summer, but his side have struggled to find the punch up front to floor reeling opponents.

While they have taken 116 shots, equivalent to an effort every seven minutes, only one in 10 has found the back of the net.

 Liverpool have the quantity, if not the quality, of shots By contrast and Manchester United and Manchester City have scored with 23.6% and 22.1% of their shots respectively.

"If we don't convert our chances we're always going to give the opposition a chance," admitted Dalglish after the draw with Norwich.

John Aldridge, a former team-mate of Dalglish, converted 63 chances in 104 Liverpool appearances between 1987 and 1989.

"It has cost us," he told BBC Sport of the Reds' current run of wastefulness.

"At least the creativity has been there to create chances, but we need to be leaner and meaner in front of goal.

"The trouble is that if you are missing you can find yourself snatching at chances."

Luis Suarez was front and centre in the shooting gallery against Norwich, firing on goal 11 times - more than any other player in a single Premier League game this season - but failing to make an impression on the scoresheet.

Since his arrival in January, the Uruguayan's smooth transition to life on Merseyside has eased the pain of Fernando Torres' departure to Chelsea.
But Suarez's dazzling skills may have blinded fans to his relative wastefulness in front of goal.

Of the players to have scored four or more goals in the Premier League this season, Suarez is the least efficient, with his shots-to-goals ratio lagging well behind the main marksmen at Liverpool's rivals for a top-four spot.

 Luis Suarez has taken 33 shots this season - the same as Wayne Rooney - but scored less than half the number of goals It may be that as his club's main attacking force Suarez feels he has to take on responsibility for shooting more often.

Nine of his 33 shots on goal have come from outside the area which hardly suggests a personal shoot-on-sight policy however.

"He scored two fabulous goals against Stoke in the Carling Cup on Wednesday  so hopefully that will give him confidence," added Aldridge.

"Steven Gerrard will help take the pressure off Suarez. He has only played one game so far since returning from injury and will score goals from midfield, as will Charlie Adam. You need goals from all over the pitch."

Craig Bellamy and record signing Andy Carroll are also at Dalglish's disposal.

Liverpool do not lack for firepower, but their big guns' sights need tuning if they are to keep Champions League qualification in focus.

Every goal Suarez has scored this season, except for Arsenal (7) has done it with Carroll on the field.

Is the partnership the key to killing off games? Like we did against Stoke the other night, by actually getting a second goal.

Yes to some extent but the defending has to take it's share of the blame as well. End of the day it's a team game and no one single part of that team is to blame exclusively, but all are collectively.

even looking at the 1st half vs 2nd half tables here (http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11662_2705370,00.html) it shows that we fall back in the second half. 1st half results were are in 5th positon, 2nd half, we are in 10th. Is this a fitness issue? Concentration?

As for the defence, we have allowed 34 shots on target against us this season, which is among the lowest anyways, but have still conceded 10 goals.

It definitely is but if we're only going to score one in 10 chances, we have to defend better.

Still say we are in a better position now than 12 months ago. And the new lads are still settling in, but all have contributed.

The future is bright, target this year was back into europe, i.e. top 5, decent cup runs etc..

Then hopefully next year we can have a real go at the league & Europe again !

Onwards and upwards lads, think positive.

While they have taken 116 shots, equivalent to an effort every seven minutes, only one in 10 has found the back of the net.

So 4 more shots would take it up to 120... which would mean another goal yes...? Shoot on sight lads

Yes it is killing our title hopes, it hasn't killed our title hopes just yet though. The biggest factor to take into consideration is how many new players we have in the team, i feel this is the main reason we are not finding consistency in our game just yet. I still genuinely believe that we can win the League this year, we are playing beautiful football and it is a joy to watch.

I'd be more worried if we were not creating chances myself, at least we are progressing steadily when considering all the new understandings being forged across the park. I still think that we need another 5-6 League games until we see the new look Liverpool settle.

I'm not whinging about anything, i'm just enjoying seeing us return to our original ways, that in itself is a blessing. The rest will come in good time.

Today's games sums it up.

Everton had 19 shots with 8 on target. Man United had 7 shots with 4 on target. Man United win 1-0.

Chelsea had 14 shots and 7 on target. Arsenal had 13 shots and 7 on target. Almost equal but Arsenal win 5-3. Out of their 7 on target, they scored 5.

We've hit the post ten times so far this season.

More than any other club.

Facht.


Solutions?

1 Go to Melwood for shooting practice.

2 Write to the F.A. about those confounded posts .... signing the letter with top secret initials S.A.F.

3 Go to specsavers.

 

 The short answer is yes it is. My view is that it's just as much a defensive problem, infact probably more so then it is an attacking one, but it's a problem nontheless. As it stands right now, the two Manchester clubs are going to challenge for the title with ourselves, Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham battling it out for the other two top four slots. Neither Arsenal nor Chelsea can defend, while Tottenhams problem is that if Adebayor gets injured they don't have a viable alternative (we'd be in the same boat with Suarez if it was long term). Broadly though, our main reason we won't challenge is because we don't defend well enough IMHO. Prncipally, we need an absolutely top class centre half.

But in my opinion, as long as we score more than we concede, we'll do fine. I know Pepe and Carra would love clean sheets but I'm sure they'd prefer a win at all cost.

Even if we are leading 3 or 4 goals, a goal conceded doesn't hurt too much as it would if we were leading only 1-0.

But in my opinion, as long as we score more than we concede, we'll do fine.

 It's pretty hard to argue with that point mate, you win :0)

 It's pretty hard to argue with that point mate, you win :0)

Wouldn't mind us winning the league with the scores 4-3 for all 38 games! We would have conceded 114 goals by May!!

lets walk before we run. and run we will

Well when you look at the stats you really get a feel of why this is happening. 14 times we have hit the post or crossbar most in premier league.Then our best player re Saurez his conversion rate ratio of shots and goal is 12%. compare this to rooney or augerio at 25 % .His 11 shots versus norwich was the highest total of shots in a game  this year.

How many assists has suarez got as well though? that stat would be interesting.

We will batter somebody soon, Watch out swansea on saturday !

How many assists has suarez got as well though?

Two.

Two.

i think that's misleading, it may be two direct assists, but he does so much to create space, carve out openings and get us onto promising attacks with his skill and vision. for me, he's the only truly creative player we have in the team right now. h