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      FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)

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      redkop63
      • Forum Legend - Dalglish
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      • 6,890 posts | 455 
      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1518: Dec 29, 2011 12:21:45 pm
      Malaysians are f**king retarded.

      A small section in the papers saying Suarez is a racist and that by backing him (wearing the white t-shirts), Kenny and Liverpool are encouraging racism. WTF?

      They are clueless.

      Suarez SAID a word that is WIDELY used in Uruguay but not acceptable in England - that is an honest mistake but HE IS NOT RACIST.

      Since majority of Malaysians call the European/Caucasians race "white people" (I have used it as well but I mainly stick to caucasian), does it mean we are all racist?

      Mentally retarded newspapers especially STAR suitable for old toilet. KD encouraging racism, so what, if that's what those idiots believe. The more they torture Suarez, the more the fans love him and the FA should plant their bloody ears on the ground to hear the rumblings of the Liverpool fans and neutral fans. The anti-England (sorry my English fellow supporters here) are picking up momentum from where I come from and many Liverpool supporters have now vent their anger and frustration on the FA and they have openly declared that they are anti against anything that got to do with the England Football Team. Let's all of us do our little part by not supporting the England merchandise.

      No wonder England never win the World Cup after 45 years, not suprising with idiots like that in the FA. I'm not even sure whether FIFA has confidence on England hosting the World Cup for the next 20 years when they can't act fairly on a simple matter. Dear Moderator if my post sounded too violent and malicious pls withdraw it but I'm too angry to use better words.
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 36,034 posts | 3961 
      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1519: Dec 29, 2011 01:11:46 pm
      Suarez judgement to be most detailed in the FA's history
      The judgement on Liverpool's Luis Suarez's eight-match ban for racially abusing the Manchester United defender Patrice Evra promises to be the biggest and most comprehensive in the Football Association's history as the independent commission that came to the decision prepares to release its "written reasons" this week.

      The document, which is being put together by the commission chairman, Paul Goulding QC, is thought to run to more pages than the 28-page commission report into the "Battle of Stamford Bridge" involving Manchester United players and Chelsea groundstaff that was released three years ago...



      http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/suarez-judgement-to-be-most-detailed-in-the-fas-history-6282427.html

      Weird that it'll be a more detailed report than that which included (one would assume) the evidence of many witnesses.

      Surely, in a case in which such a heavy penalty was handed down, we should expect the findings to be more cut 'n' dried and succinct.

      To warrant such a punishment it should only be a matter of the F.A. writing: "Luis Suarez insulted Patrice Evra with a blatant racist remark, namely ******, we've found him guilty of that based on substantiated evidence and his punishment is deemed appropriate". In short: there should have been no doubt that he was guilty before handing out a punishment and any report should reflect that.

      In producing such a large document: It seems to me that the F.A. have looked at this case with little or no real objectivity simply because they want to be seen as more anti-racist than 'the rest'. As such they now find themselves having to justify their 'reasonings' rather than merely report the facts.

      In my opinion a case like this should be down to facts, with no room for doubt; not the subjective reasoning of three, white Englishmen, working to an agenda which has, at it's very core, the need to: "Show them that we're more anti-racist than Sepp"
      Purely and simply a cosmetic exercise to put some meat on the bone of a conspired series of events with the aim of crucifying Luis.
      HUYTON RED
      • Forum Legend - Shankly
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      • 40,389 posts | 8632 
      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1520: Dec 29, 2011 02:15:07 pm
      Martin Lipton from the Mirror with more sh*t aimed at Suarez and LFC

      where Liverpool's support of Suarez should have stopped

      Justice. An emotive word, especially when used in a footballing context.

      But for justice to prevail, it requires all parties to follow the same path.

      Liverpool’s determination to support Luis Suarez even after he was found guilty of racially abusing Patrice Evra by the FA’s Independent Regulatory Committee was understandable and ­right.

      Abandoning Suarez having backed him to that point would have made little sense. Yet that was where the Anfield stance should have stopped - with a ­statement regretting the verdict and ­intimating the club’s ­inclination to appeal the judgement and sentence, while awaiting the full reasons.

      Instead, Liverpool went on the front foot, accusing the FA of pre-judging the issue and levelling accusations at Evra – which, by implication if not directly, allowed the utterly false allegations that the Frenchman had a history of crying wolf over ­non-existent racial slurs to fester.

      At the close of the hearing last week, commission chairman Paul Goulding QC asked Liverpool, Manchester United and the FA to say nothing until they had received the full findings.

      Liverpool’s more conciliatory position over the past few days may have come because they have now digested those reasons.

      Justice, real justice, demands scrupulous behaviour.

      Liverpool can judge if they have stuck to their own high standards.


      http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/martin-lipton/The-Martin-Lipton-column-Why-Demba-Ba-is-making-the-millions-spent-on-Carroll-on-Torres-look-more-and-more-foolish-and-where-Liverpool-s-support-of-Suarez-should-have-stopped-article846784.html
      stuey
      • LFC Reds Subscriber
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      • 36,034 posts | 3961 
      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1521: Dec 29, 2011 02:42:53 pm
      Martin Lipton from the Mirror with more sh*t aimed at Suarez and LFC

      where Liverpool's support of Suarez should have stopped

      Justice. An emotive word, especially when used in a footballing context.

      But for justice to prevail, it requires all parties to follow the same path.

      Justice, real justice, demands scrupulous behaviour.

      Liverpool can judge if they have stuck to their own high standards.


      http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/martin-lipton/The-Martin-Lipton-column-Why-Demba-Ba-is-making-the-millions-spent-on-Carroll-on-Torres-look-more-and-more-foolish-and-where-Liverpool-s-support-of-Suarez-should-have-stopped-article846784.html
      The above is the only worthwhile text worth dwelling on.
      The rest is speculation, affected rhetoric and pure comment from a journalist earning a living as best he knows how.
      RedLFCBlood
      • Guest
      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1522: Dec 29, 2011 03:06:11 pm
      SUAREZ: WHY WE MUST STAND BY OUR MAN

      http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/12/suarez-why-we-must-stand-by-our-man/

      Here follows a suggested draft clarifying statement, from the LFC brother and sisterhood to the rest of the world, as pertains to the matter of Mr Luis Suarez Vs Mr Patrice Evra :

      We the undersigned comprehensively understand that racism is a very very very nasty insidious by-product of the human condition. We understand this unequivocally and laud anyone who seeks to better race relations and to be punitive with those who seek to incite racial hatred. We realise fully that it would be pathetic of us if, in defending Luis Suarez we were merely aligning behind our club crest. We get that it is not more important to support your football team than to condemn a racist act. We don’t think the punishment meted out to Luis Suarez is a case of ‘political correctness gone mad’. We don’t need telling this by the wider British media or a half interested public. We know this. We genuinely do. You patronising cu*ts.

      Like his red brethren, Luis Suarez has had just about enough. He wears the haunted look of a man who can’t believe the extent of insanity that has been allowed to envelope him in the past two weeks.

      The British press corps just can’t get enough of him and can scarcely disguise their joy at having free reign to tut, head shake, and also to reclaim some high ground after plumbing the depths by association with recent newspaper misconduct scandals.

      The merits of the Suarez-Evra case and arcane concepts such as truth and justice have been parked amidst a desire to get in line behind those wanting to be seen to be fighting the good fight against racism.

      Not for these folk concerns about the need to side bar into discussions about such foppish indulgences as definitions of racial prejudice amidst changing contexts, or whether somebody actually did the thing that they were being accused of.

      It’s enough to be anti racism. It’s an end in itself. A badge of worthiness and superiority.

      It has been unedifying to see how this issue has armed so many with a sense of courage to keenly spot a clear wrong from a right. Men and women on streets everywhere know that Luis Suarez deserved one of the harshest sanctions in English football history because ‘he done a racism’. He done a racism, that’s why he got banned for so long. You got to be tough on racism haven’t you? But did he actually do anything racist? He must have done. The ban proves it.

      Doesn’t it?

      The supporters, however, are working on a high level presumption of innocence, and it is their right to do so. A two dimensional media consensus may want ready villains and victims but those that love Suarez are entitled to demand that the golden one is not damned lightly, entitled to demand that a burden of proof lies with his accusers, and that if he is to be condemned it be by a process that can come close to commanding some respect.

      The city of Liverpool has always correctly welcomed a righteous siege, and the last stand of the Suarez citadel feels like a fort worthy of defending.

      It seems perverse and somehow ironic that Liverpool must seemingly now fight a new battle on a perceived low ground. It undeniably feels a tad dirty to be taking a corner opposite from the correct fight against prejudice.

      This apparent contradiction however is entirely superficial. There is no stance being taken here that suggests a softening of tolerance towards racist attitudes. This is about justice and politics, and about the pernicious persecution of a good man.

      If one believes a loved one has been wrongly accused of a murder, it does not suddenly make you ‘soft’ on murder.

      Liverpool Football club itself, to enormous credit, has truly captured the soul of its demographic in its spirited response to the news of Suarez’s sanction by the Football Association.

      Cries from outsiders of ‘playing to the gallery’ should be swatted aside. Last week at in Wigan Liverpool players displayed their solidarity with Suarez by donning T-shirts emblazoned with his number and image. The press, fairly unanimously, felt this act of comradeship inherently lacked respect towards the ‘kick it out’ anti-racism campaign.

      Let’s put T-shirtgate into the correct perspective for the slow witted and the witch hunters then – the show of support for Suarez was so comprehensive, solid and heartfelt, not because the Liverpool players were simply standing by a mate, as an end in itself. They’re standing by Suarez because they firmly believe he has suffered a grave injustice.

      Not an injustice in the sense that ‘a bit of racism here and there ain’t that bad, come on, we all do it’, but in the sense that they believe that their comrade is categorically not a racist, didn’t say anything racist, and is innocent of the charges levelled at him. Justice, in their view, has been miscarried.

      If they believe that, and they are closer to all the evidence than any member of the press pack or legion of ‘experts’ trotted out in the past week, then that view and stance is to be taken seriously and with respect. It is nonsense to dismiss and sneer it as an act of condoning of racism. In no sense did it represent that.

      Liverpool supporters have done their sums, and reached conclusions that will be scoffed at as those of apologists, but if time and respect is given, it can be seen that these conclusions are soundly enough based to warrant the defensive passion displayed. We have Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football Club as our witnesses.

      No matter that Liverpool football club were actually at the hearing, no doubt have transcripts of it, and have a coterie of legal advisors giving them blunt objective views on all relevant implications, press men like the Daily Mail’s Des Kelly still feel that they can unabashedly alight their soap boxes with not a care in the world and freely damn club, supporters and player . The following from Des is appallingly typical :

      Suarez himself admitted he made the remark (negrito), yet argued it would be considered inoffensive in his native South America. So what?  Ignorance isn’t a justifiable defence and saying ‘little black man’ is not a purely descriptive phrase, as some at Liverpool have laughably attempted to argue.

      It is a remark designed to belittle and demean and, in that context, it is racist language.

      Moreover, Suarez hasn’t just stepped off a plane from Montevideo. He joined Ajax in the Dutch league in 2007 so has – or should have – a grasp of what is, and what is not, acceptable outside of South America

      What Des and the mainstream press are misunderstanding with a consistency across the swathe that defies belief is not that the Liverpool family believe Suarez should ‘get off with it, because ya know, the word he used, you’re kinda allowed to say it, and be a bit racist where he comes from’.

      The LFC perspective is that he has fundamentally not used language that can be construed as racist , at all. Full stop.

      The media confuse the fact that they can find a literal google translation for ‘negrito’ that if applied in English would seem to clearly reference skin colour with such trivial niceties as the actual applicable definition of the word.

      The French use endearments such as ‘ma puce’ or ‘mon petit chou’, which literally translate to the English as ‘my flea’ and ‘my little cabbage’. Had Evra mockingly used these terms at Suarez would the FA or boneheads like Des Kelly have claimed that he was accusing the Uruguayan of being a disease spreading insect or being disrespectful to those of impaired brain function with the vegetable assertion?

      Any language student who has attained a level of competence knows that translation is not the art of applying the literal from one culture to another but is attempting to carry over the substance and spirit of what is being communicated.

      Crucially in the Suarez case, the problem Brits have with getting this is that our language doesn’t have an equivalent of ‘negrito’. We don’t have words that reference skin colour affectionately.

      We do have tame words for people’s places of origin such as ‘jock’, ‘taff’ or ‘Geordie’ and we have benign colloquialisms for hair colour – ginge, blondie – but with skin we draw a line.

      We do this because we have history with the pigmentation of flesh. We sent men to far foreign lands where they rounded up men of darker toned skin than their own because they saw them as vulnerable and inferior. The rest, tragically, is history.

      We use references to skin tone derogatorily. It’s part of our heritage to do so. It’s our shame and the FA knows this.

      It’s not Uruguay’s shame though, and it’s not Luis Suarez’s burden either.

      Yes, he was in our country when he happened to be having an altercation with a black man, but he did not use the racist verbal weapons so readily available in our culture (or indeed his own).

      He responded, we are lead to believe, to an opponent on a football pitch addressing him in his mother tongue.

      Evra, it is claimed, took it upon himself to take the spat into su casa. Suarez, at that moment surely had the right to use language that in his country he knows is simply not racist. He used a term he would just as comfortably have used with the lighter skinned Manchester United players Hernandez and Fabio.

      At the point Evra took the discourse into Spanish, Suarez was on on home turf, in his own linguistic back yard, speaking to a non Englishman who had chosen his tongue to communicate in.

      The nonsense argument that ‘Suarez has lived in western Europe for ‘x’ years and should know better’ is laid bare. If he and Evra had been speaking English and Suarez said something akin to ‘calm down little black man’, then there’s a case for saying that he must know that people do not speak like this in English, without implication of offence.

      The conversation with Evra, though, was not in English, and it is not for the English to decide that this conversation had racist tones.

      Why was a respected Spaniard or Uruguayan not trusted to be co-opted onto the FA panel on such a key cultural issue ? Why was a decision on the implications of a conversation in a foreign language left to three Caucasian English men ?

      Of course, in the absence of actually neither being at the scene of the crime and misdemeanour we can’t know what Suarez actually intended nor what Evra contrived or contributed. Did Suarez use ‘negrito’ in a sentence such as ‘calm down bro’, or did he racistly patronise Evra with the equivalent of ‘calm down little black man’ ?

      It’s reasonable to suspect that Evra and the FA have gone with the latter interpretation. We can assert with confidence, however, given the virulence of LFC statement on the FA’s judgement, that the club and player are firmly convinced of the former emphasis.

      Furthermore there have been leaks to suggest the key offending term was not ‘negrito’ but the potentially more explosive and internationally more recognisable ‘negro’.

      Again, given the reaction of Suarez and LFC it is reasonable to assume that when Suarez stated in a recent interview that he called Evra a word that ‘his own team mates would use with him’ that he was more likely to be referencing the harmless diminutive version, ‘negrito’.

      So it comes down to one man intended one thing, another man received that intention entirely differently . Word against word. Interpretation against interpretation. Will against will. So where is the FA’s case ?

      Did they look at the respective credibilities of the protagonists and find that one had a more honest disposition than the other? A tricky and risky call if they chose that route. Did they consider if one man had a penchant for racism, or was circumstantially likely to default to racist name calling? Did they for one nano-second give a man the benefit of more than reasonable doubt ?

      Why too, has the apparent allegation from the LFC camp that Evra initially racistly labelled Suarez a ‘Sudaca’ just been parked ?

      Not that this even would justify a racist retort from the Liverpool man, but surely as a minimum, in the FA’s simplistic world view, this should have been seen as a case of a tit for tatting. If Evra was racist first it wouldn’t exonerate Suarez, but in ignoring Evra’s contribution the credibility of the FA’s process is entirely self undermined, and in turn the case against Suarez is inherently weakened.

      The truth is that, regardless of what the FA’s belated official statement on this affair will say, they found the case too complex and nuanced so they went with crudest version of objectivity they could contrive.

      Make no mistake, Suarez has been damned because the word used in his language in English refers to skin colour, and in English if you do that you are de facto being insulting and racist. There is virtually no room for manoeuvre in Anglo Saxon parlance.

      The FA consider that in Suarez’s land you can say what the F**k you like, because, ya know, they’re a bit (whisper it) backward in those hotter far-away places. They’re not up to speed on the liberal dinner party etiquette that Daily Mail, King and country FA stalwarts can always be counted to keep abreast of.

      How ironic that a traditional bastion of conservatism (in every sense) such as the football association now finds itself a standard bearer for equality and the fairer society.

      We at the FA and we are now down with the kids and this whole 21st century PC speak thing. We love black people. Gays ? Those guys are great too. More of them the merrier. Anyone who doesn’t like them wants shooting, or stringing up, or to be forced to do some national service or something. That’ll straighten them out.

      You can’t, it seems, teach old dogma new tricks. The irony that in belatedly adopting liberal ideals a Jurassic institution such as the FA are only mentally able to take on things as complex as ideals in their primary school two dimensional forms.

      God forbid they see the perversity in their riding rough shod over the subtleties of a man’s culture and use of language in a shallow and transparent attempt to be seen to be surfing the big wave of righteousness.

      We the outsiders, reduced to trying to sneak a peek into the Suarez-Evra case through the cracks in the press , or via our club’s defiant statement are left ultimately with one key decision.

      Who do we trust the most to be telling us the truth and interpreting this situation correctly ?

      This then is the crux of why Liverpool fans assert their right to defend their champion, and to do so with their moralities held high.

      The world accuses us, of course, of flagrant partisanship. Guilty as charged.

      We are partisan with this incarnation of Liverpool football club (as opposed to the Hicks/Gillett monster).

      We are partisan with Kenny Dalglish. We now believe in the institution and we have always believed in the man.

      We don’t believe in the Football Association and never have done.They have never before stood for truth, meritocracy, justice and fairness. They have so very rarely shown themselves to be able, sensitive and intelligent.

      There are no occasions when one can say the FA behaved with nobility and courage. When did that body ever seem anything but a self serving club rife with corrupt cronyism. Never. Ever.

      This is our truth, show us yours.
      ayrton77
      • Forum Legend - Paisley
      • *****

      • 13,775 posts | 627 
      • © Established Quality Since 1977
      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1523: Dec 29, 2011 03:15:01 pm
      SUAREZ: WHY WE MUST STAND BY OUR MAN

      http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/12/suarez-why-we-must-stand-by-our-man/

      Here follows a suggested draft clarifying statement, from the LFC brother and sisterhood to the rest of the world, as pertains to the matter of Mr Luis Suarez Vs Mr Patrice Evra :

      We the undersigned comprehensively understand that racism is a very very very nasty insidious by-product of the human condition. We understand this unequivocally and laud anyone who seeks to better race relations and to be punitive with those who seek to incite racial hatred. We realise fully that it would be pathetic of us if, in defending Luis Suarez we were merely aligning behind our club crest. We get that it is not more important to support your football team than to condemn a racist act. We don’t think the punishment meted out to Luis Suarez is a case of ‘political correctness gone mad’. We don’t need telling this by the wider British media or a half interested public. We know this. We genuinely do. You patronising cu*ts.

      Like his red brethren, Luis Suarez has had just about enough. He wears the haunted look of a man who can’t believe the extent of insanity that has been allowed to envelope him in the past two weeks.

      The British press corps just can’t get enough of him and can scarcely disguise their joy at having free reign to tut, head shake, and also to reclaim some high ground after plumbing the depths by association with recent newspaper misconduct scandals.

      The merits of the Suarez-Evra case and arcane concepts such as truth and justice have been parked amidst a desire to get in line behind those wanting to be seen to be fighting the good fight against racism.

      Not for these folk concerns about the need to side bar into discussions about such foppish indulgences as definitions of racial prejudice amidst changing contexts, or whether somebody actually did the thing that they were being accused of.

      It’s enough to be anti racism. It’s an end in itself. A badge of worthiness and superiority.

      It has been unedifying to see how this issue has armed so many with a sense of courage to keenly spot a clear wrong from a right. Men and women on streets everywhere know that Luis Suarez deserved one of the harshest sanctions in English football history because ‘he done a racism’. He done a racism, that’s why he got banned for so long. You got to be tough on racism haven’t you? But did he actually do anything racist? He must have done. The ban proves it.

      Doesn’t it?

      The supporters, however, are working on a high level presumption of innocence, and it is their right to do so. A two dimensional media consensus may want ready villains and victims but those that love Suarez are entitled to demand that the golden one is not damned lightly, entitled to demand that a burden of proof lies with his accusers, and that if he is to be condemned it be by a process that can come close to commanding some respect.

      The city of Liverpool has always correctly welcomed a righteous siege, and the last stand of the Suarez citadel feels like a fort worthy of defending.

      It seems perverse and somehow ironic that Liverpool must seemingly now fight a new battle on a perceived low ground. It undeniably feels a tad dirty to be taking a corner opposite from the correct fight against prejudice.

      This apparent contradiction however is entirely superficial. There is no stance being taken here that suggests a softening of tolerance towards racist attitudes. This is about justice and politics, and about the pernicious persecution of a good man.

      If one believes a loved one has been wrongly accused of a murder, it does not suddenly make you ‘soft’ on murder.

      Liverpool Football club itself, to enormous credit, has truly captured the soul of its demographic in its spirited response to the news of Suarez’s sanction by the Football Association.

      Cries from outsiders of ‘playing to the gallery’ should be swatted aside. Last week at in Wigan Liverpool players displayed their solidarity with Suarez by donning T-shirts emblazoned with his number and image. The press, fairly unanimously, felt this act of comradeship inherently lacked respect towards the ‘kick it out’ anti-racism campaign.

      Let’s put T-shirtgate into the correct perspective for the slow witted and the witch hunters then – the show of support for Suarez was so comprehensive, solid and heartfelt, not because the Liverpool players were simply standing by a mate, as an end in itself. They’re standing by Suarez because they firmly believe he has suffered a grave injustice.

      Not an injustice in the sense that ‘a bit of racism here and there ain’t that bad, come on, we all do it’, but in the sense that they believe that their comrade is categorically not a racist, didn’t say anything racist, and is innocent of the charges levelled at him. Justice, in their view, has been miscarried.

      If they believe that, and they are closer to all the evidence than any member of the press pack or legion of ‘experts’ trotted out in the past week, then that view and stance is to be taken seriously and with respect. It is nonsense to dismiss and sneer it as an act of condoning of racism. In no sense did it represent that.

      Liverpool supporters have done their sums, and reached conclusions that will be scoffed at as those of apologists, but if time and respect is given, it can be seen that these conclusions are soundly enough based to warrant the defensive passion displayed. We have Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football Club as our witnesses.

      No matter that Liverpool football club were actually at the hearing, no doubt have transcripts of it, and have a coterie of legal advisors giving them blunt objective views on all relevant implications, press men like the Daily Mail’s Des Kelly still feel that they can unabashedly alight their soap boxes with not a care in the world and freely damn club, supporters and player . The following from Des is appallingly typical :

      Suarez himself admitted he made the remark (negrito), yet argued it would be considered inoffensive in his native South America. So what?  Ignorance isn’t a justifiable defence and saying ‘little black man’ is not a purely descriptive phrase, as some at Liverpool have laughably attempted to argue.

      It is a remark designed to belittle and demean and, in that context, it is racist language.

      Moreover, Suarez hasn’t just stepped off a plane from Montevideo. He joined Ajax in the Dutch league in 2007 so has – or should have – a grasp of what is, and what is not, acceptable outside of South America

      What Des and the mainstream press are misunderstanding with a consistency across the swathe that defies belief is not that the Liverpool family believe Suarez should ‘get off with it, because ya know, the word he used, you’re kinda allowed to say it, and be a bit racist where he comes from’.

      The LFC perspective is that he has fundamentally not used language that can be construed as racist , at all. Full stop.

      The media confuse the fact that they can find a literal google translation for ‘negrito’ that if applied in English would seem to clearly reference skin colour with such trivial niceties as the actual applicable definition of the word.

      The French use endearments such as ‘ma puce’ or ‘mon petit chou’, which literally translate to the English as ‘my flea’ and ‘my little cabbage’. Had Evra mockingly used these terms at Suarez would the FA or boneheads like Des Kelly have claimed that he was accusing the Uruguayan of being a disease spreading insect or being disrespectful to those of impaired brain function with the vegetable assertion?

      Any language student who has attained a level of competence knows that translation is not the art of applying the literal from one culture to another but is attempting to carry over the substance and spirit of what is being communicated.

      Crucially in the Suarez case, the problem Brits have with getting this is that our language doesn’t have an equivalent of ‘negrito’. We don’t have words that reference skin colour affectionately.

      We do have tame words for people’s places of origin such as ‘jock’, ‘taff’ or ‘Geordie’ and we have benign colloquialisms for hair colour – ginge, blondie – but with skin we draw a line.

      We do this because we have history with the pigmentation of flesh. We sent men to far foreign lands where they rounded up men of darker toned skin than their own because they saw them as vulnerable and inferior. The rest, tragically, is history.

      We use references to skin tone derogatorily. It’s part of our heritage to do so. It’s our shame and the FA knows this.

      It’s not Uruguay’s shame though, and it’s not Luis Suarez’s burden either.

      Yes, he was in our country when he happened to be having an altercation with a black man, but he did not use the racist verbal weapons so readily available in our culture (or indeed his own).

      He responded, we are lead to believe, to an opponent on a football pitch addressing him in his mother tongue.

      Evra, it is claimed, took it upon himself to take the spat into su casa. Suarez, at that moment surely had the right to use language that in his country he knows is simply not racist. He used a term he would just as comfortably have used with the lighter skinned Manchester United players Hernandez and Fabio.

      At the point Evra took the discourse into Spanish, Suarez was on on home turf, in his own linguistic back yard, speaking to a non Englishman who had chosen his tongue to communicate in.

      The nonsense argument that ‘Suarez has lived in western Europe for ‘x’ years and should know better’ is laid bare. If he and Evra had been speaking English and Suarez said something akin to ‘calm down little black man’, then there’s a case for saying that he must know that people do not speak like this in English, without implication of offence.

      The conversation with Evra, though, was not in English, and it is not for the English to decide that this conversation had racist tones.

      Why was a respected Spaniard or Uruguayan not trusted to be co-opted onto the FA panel on such a key cultural issue ? Why was a decision on the implications of a conversation in a foreign language left to three Caucasian English men ?

      Of course, in the absence of actually neither being at the scene of the crime and misdemeanour we can’t know what Suarez actually intended nor what Evra contrived or contributed. Did Suarez use ‘negrito’ in a sentence such as ‘calm down bro’, or did he racistly patronise Evra with the equivalent of ‘calm down little black man’ ?

      It’s reasonable to suspect that Evra and the FA have gone with the latter interpretation. We can assert with confidence, however, given the virulence of LFC statement on the FA’s judgement, that the club and player are firmly convinced of the former emphasis.

      Furthermore there have been leaks to suggest the key offending term was not ‘negrito’ but the potentially more explosive and internationally more recognisable ‘negro’.

      Again, given the reaction of Suarez and LFC it is reasonable to assume that when Suarez stated in a recent interview that he called Evra a word that ‘his own team mates would use with him’ that he was more likely to be referencing the harmless diminutive version, ‘negrito’.

      So it comes down to one man intended one thing, another man received that intention entirely differently . Word against word. Interpretation against interpretation. Will against will. So where is the FA’s case ?

      Did they look at the respective credibilities of the protagonists and find that one had a more honest disposition than the other? A tricky and risky call if they chose that route. Did they consider if one man had a penchant for racism, or was circumstantially likely to default to racist name calling? Did they for one nano-second give a man the benefit of more than reasonable doubt ?

      Why too, has the apparent allegation from the LFC camp that Evra initially racistly labelled Suarez a ‘Sudaca’ just been parked ?

      Not that this even would justify a racist retort from the Liverpool man, but surely as a minimum, in the FA’s simplistic world view, this should have been seen as a case of a tit for tatting. If Evra was racist first it wouldn’t exonerate Suarez, but in ignoring Evra’s contribution the credibility of the FA’s process is entirely self undermined, and in turn the case against Suarez is inherently weakened.

      The truth is that, regardless of what the FA’s belated official statement on this affair will say, they found the case too complex and nuanced so they went with crudest version of objectivity they could contrive.

      Make no mistake, Suarez has been damned because the word used in his language in English refers to skin colour, and in English if you do that you are de facto being insulting and racist. There is virtually no room for manoeuvre in Anglo Saxon parlance.

      The FA consider that in Suarez’s land you can say what the F**k you like, because, ya know, they’re a bit (whisper it) backward in those hotter far-away places. They’re not up to speed on the liberal dinner party etiquette that Daily Mail, King and country FA stalwarts can always be counted to keep abreast of.

      How ironic that a traditional bastion of conservatism (in every sense) such as the football association now finds itself a standard bearer for equality and the fairer society.

      We at the FA and we are now down with the kids and this whole 21st century PC speak thing. We love black people. Gays ? Those guys are great too. More of them the merrier. Anyone who doesn’t like them wants shooting, or stringing up, or to be forced to do some national service or something. That’ll straighten them out.

      You can’t, it seems, teach old dogma new tricks. The irony that in belatedly adopting liberal ideals a Jurassic institution such as the FA are only mentally able to take on things as complex as ideals in their primary school two dimensional forms.

      God forbid they see the perversity in their riding rough shod over the subtleties of a man’s culture and use of language in a shallow and transparent attempt to be seen to be surfing the big wave of righteousness.

      We the outsiders, reduced to trying to sneak a peek into the Suarez-Evra case through the cracks in the press , or via our club’s defiant statement are left ultimately with one key decision.

      Who do we trust the most to be telling us the truth and interpreting this situation correctly ?

      This then is the crux of why Liverpool fans assert their right to defend their champion, and to do so with their moralities held high.

      The world accuses us, of course, of flagrant partisanship. Guilty as charged.

      We are partisan with this incarnation of Liverpool football club (as opposed to the Hicks/Gillett monster).

      We are partisan with Kenny Dalglish. We now believe in the institution and we have always believed in the man.

      We don’t believe in the Football Association and never have done.They have never before stood for truth, meritocracy, justice and fairness. They have so very rarely shown themselves to be able, sensitive and intelligent.

      There are no occasions when one can say the FA behaved with nobility and courage. When did that body ever seem anything but a self serving club rife with corrupt cronyism. Never. Ever.

      This is our truth, show us yours.
      Really good read, that, highlights all the flaws in the case that we've touched upon ourselves on the forum, in detail.

      Don't be put off by the length of the article - a must read, IMO.
      Tayls
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1524: Dec 29, 2011 03:29:54 pm
      An excellent article that points out the flaws in the anti Suarez brigade's arguments.

      Eloquently written too.
      waltonl4
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1525: Dec 29, 2011 03:57:03 pm
      The point is who holds the appeal ???? if its the same calibre of people who found him guilty they will stick together like glue rather than find him not guilty.It wouldn't surprise me if we end up in some human rights court as what the FA dont seem to understand is by their actions this man has been labled a RACIST on the word of another and that to me seems without question wrong. They dont seem to understand that we and in particular Luis cannot simply let this go as its far more important than an 8 game ban its about a man's character and his future which has been severely attacked by the FA's decisions.
      what-a-hit-son
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1526: Dec 29, 2011 04:08:05 pm
      Great piece of writing but can't help that it's going to fall on deaf ears.
      stephenmc9
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1527: Dec 29, 2011 04:42:34 pm
      Really good read, that, highlights all the flaws in the case that we've touched upon ourselves on the forum, in detail.

      Don't be put off by the length of the article - a must read, IMO.


      That is some read,highlights a lot of little allays,Should be interesting when they release the papers...just seen this on a site


      JenChang88 Alvaro Pereira: Either Evra is not proud to be black or he has an inferiority complex. That term is used in friendly way over here (Uruguay)
      MIRO
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1528: Dec 29, 2011 04:48:43 pm
      Good article.

      I have to say as the world watches this farce being played out it is the tip of the iceberg as far as many of us on this forum are concerned.
      It is one of the reasons why I left the UK just over ten years ago.
      An "uptight PC gone mad little island" with ar*eholes like the   Suarez Three   at the F.A. are concerned.

      I get beyond arguing about it.
      I get beyond telling people that Britain is no longer the country I was born and brought up in and that it has gone forever.

      From offshore you can see it so clearly.

      We all have Freesat and watch Brit TV. We all log on to the streams.
      When the lads play withing 200km of us (when they are in Europe) we are there at the head of the queue.


      Just think.
      They rushed out the ban on Luis .....   but hadn't even written up the Judgement on it !

      They are making it up as they go along .... literally.

      Bizarre. Ultra Vires. Insane cowboy stuff.

      Yes that QC better get it spot on because if he doesn't .....Slaughters  will do as their name suggests.

      I want the FA humiliated and also the Mancs.
      ayrton77
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1529: Dec 29, 2011 05:12:35 pm
      Either Evra is not proud to be black or he has an inferiority complex

      The second, for me.

      Not sure why, just a feeling, based mainly on recent stuff I've heard about him, but it makes sense.
      RedLFCBlood
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1530: Dec 29, 2011 05:23:13 pm
      The second, for me.

      Not sure why, just a feeling, based mainly on recent stuff I've heard about him, but it makes sense.

      Or the 3rd option, he's just a whinging crying little c**t!!!
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1531: Dec 29, 2011 05:47:25 pm
      SUAREZ: WHY WE MUST STAND BY OUR MAN

      http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2011/12/suarez-why-we-must-stand-by-our-man/

      Here follows a suggested draft clarifying statement, from the LFC brother and sisterhood to the rest of the world, as pertains to the matter of Mr Luis Suarez Vs Mr Patrice Evra :

      We the undersigned comprehensively understand that racism is a very very very nasty insidious by-product of the human condition. We understand this unequivocally and laud anyone who seeks to better race relations and to be punitive with those who seek to incite racial hatred. We realise fully that it would be pathetic of us if, in defending Luis Suarez we were merely aligning behind our club crest. We get that it is not more important to support your football team than to condemn a racist act. We don’t think the punishment meted out to Luis Suarez is a case of ‘political correctness gone mad’. We don’t need telling this by the wider British media or a half interested public. We know this. We genuinely do. You patronising cu*ts.

      Like his red brethren, Luis Suarez has had just about enough. He wears the haunted look of a man who can’t believe the extent of insanity that has been allowed to envelope him in the past two weeks.

      The British press corps just can’t get enough of him and can scarcely disguise their joy at having free reign to tut, head shake, and also to reclaim some high ground after plumbing the depths by association with recent newspaper misconduct scandals.

      The merits of the Suarez-Evra case and arcane concepts such as truth and justice have been parked amidst a desire to get in line behind those wanting to be seen to be fighting the good fight against racism.

      Not for these folk concerns about the need to side bar into discussions about such foppish indulgences as definitions of racial prejudice amidst changing contexts, or whether somebody actually did the thing that they were being accused of.

      It’s enough to be anti racism. It’s an end in itself. A badge of worthiness and superiority.

      It has been unedifying to see how this issue has armed so many with a sense of courage to keenly spot a clear wrong from a right. Men and women on streets everywhere know that Luis Suarez deserved one of the harshest sanctions in English football history because ‘he done a racism’. He done a racism, that’s why he got banned for so long. You got to be tough on racism haven’t you? But did he actually do anything racist? He must have done. The ban proves it.

      Doesn’t it?

      The supporters, however, are working on a high level presumption of innocence, and it is their right to do so. A two dimensional media consensus may want ready villains and victims but those that love Suarez are entitled to demand that the golden one is not damned lightly, entitled to demand that a burden of proof lies with his accusers, and that if he is to be condemned it be by a process that can come close to commanding some respect.

      The city of Liverpool has always correctly welcomed a righteous siege, and the last stand of the Suarez citadel feels like a fort worthy of defending.

      It seems perverse and somehow ironic that Liverpool must seemingly now fight a new battle on a perceived low ground. It undeniably feels a tad dirty to be taking a corner opposite from the correct fight against prejudice.

      This apparent contradiction however is entirely superficial. There is no stance being taken here that suggests a softening of tolerance towards racist attitudes. This is about justice and politics, and about the pernicious persecution of a good man.

      If one believes a loved one has been wrongly accused of a murder, it does not suddenly make you ‘soft’ on murder.

      Liverpool Football club itself, to enormous credit, has truly captured the soul of its demographic in its spirited response to the news of Suarez’s sanction by the Football Association.

      Cries from outsiders of ‘playing to the gallery’ should be swatted aside. Last week at in Wigan Liverpool players displayed their solidarity with Suarez by donning T-shirts emblazoned with his number and image. The press, fairly unanimously, felt this act of comradeship inherently lacked respect towards the ‘kick it out’ anti-racism campaign.

      Let’s put T-shirtgate into the correct perspective for the slow witted and the witch hunters then – the show of support for Suarez was so comprehensive, solid and heartfelt, not because the Liverpool players were simply standing by a mate, as an end in itself. They’re standing by Suarez because they firmly believe he has suffered a grave injustice.

      Not an injustice in the sense that ‘a bit of racism here and there ain’t that bad, come on, we all do it’, but in the sense that they believe that their comrade is categorically not a racist, didn’t say anything racist, and is innocent of the charges levelled at him. Justice, in their view, has been miscarried.

      If they believe that, and they are closer to all the evidence than any member of the press pack or legion of ‘experts’ trotted out in the past week, then that view and stance is to be taken seriously and with respect. It is nonsense to dismiss and sneer it as an act of condoning of racism. In no sense did it represent that.

      Liverpool supporters have done their sums, and reached conclusions that will be scoffed at as those of apologists, but if time and respect is given, it can be seen that these conclusions are soundly enough based to warrant the defensive passion displayed. We have Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football Club as our witnesses.

      No matter that Liverpool football club were actually at the hearing, no doubt have transcripts of it, and have a coterie of legal advisors giving them blunt objective views on all relevant implications, press men like the Daily Mail’s Des Kelly still feel that they can unabashedly alight their soap boxes with not a care in the world and freely damn club, supporters and player . The following from Des is appallingly typical :

      Suarez himself admitted he made the remark (negrito), yet argued it would be considered inoffensive in his native South America. So what?  Ignorance isn’t a justifiable defence and saying ‘little black man’ is not a purely descriptive phrase, as some at Liverpool have laughably attempted to argue.

      It is a remark designed to belittle and demean and, in that context, it is racist language.

      Moreover, Suarez hasn’t just stepped off a plane from Montevideo. He joined Ajax in the Dutch league in 2007 so has – or should have – a grasp of what is, and what is not, acceptable outside of South America

      What Des and the mainstream press are misunderstanding with a consistency across the swathe that defies belief is not that the Liverpool family believe Suarez should ‘get off with it, because ya know, the word he used, you’re kinda allowed to say it, and be a bit racist where he comes from’.

      The LFC perspective is that he has fundamentally not used language that can be construed as racist , at all. Full stop.

      The media confuse the fact that they can find a literal google translation for ‘negrito’ that if applied in English would seem to clearly reference skin colour with such trivial niceties as the actual applicable definition of the word.

      The French use endearments such as ‘ma puce’ or ‘mon petit chou’, which literally translate to the English as ‘my flea’ and ‘my little cabbage’. Had Evra mockingly used these terms at Suarez would the FA or boneheads like Des Kelly have claimed that he was accusing the Uruguayan of being a disease spreading insect or being disrespectful to those of impaired brain function with the vegetable assertion?

      Any language student who has attained a level of competence knows that translation is not the art of applying the literal from one culture to another but is attempting to carry over the substance and spirit of what is being communicated.

      Crucially in the Suarez case, the problem Brits have with getting this is that our language doesn’t have an equivalent of ‘negrito’. We don’t have words that reference skin colour affectionately.

      We do have tame words for people’s places of origin such as ‘jock’, ‘taff’ or ‘Geordie’ and we have benign colloquialisms for hair colour – ginge, blondie – but with skin we draw a line.

      We do this because we have history with the pigmentation of flesh. We sent men to far foreign lands where they rounded up men of darker toned skin than their own because they saw them as vulnerable and inferior. The rest, tragically, is history.

      We use references to skin tone derogatorily. It’s part of our heritage to do so. It’s our shame and the FA knows this.

      It’s not Uruguay’s shame though, and it’s not Luis Suarez’s burden either.

      Yes, he was in our country when he happened to be having an altercation with a black man, but he did not use the racist verbal weapons so readily available in our culture (or indeed his own).

      He responded, we are lead to believe, to an opponent on a football pitch addressing him in his mother tongue.

      Evra, it is claimed, took it upon himself to take the spat into su casa. Suarez, at that moment surely had the right to use language that in his country he knows is simply not racist. He used a term he would just as comfortably have used with the lighter skinned Manchester United players Hernandez and Fabio.

      At the point Evra took the discourse into Spanish, Suarez was on on home turf, in his own linguistic back yard, speaking to a non Englishman who had chosen his tongue to communicate in.

      The nonsense argument that ‘Suarez has lived in western Europe for ‘x’ years and should know better’ is laid bare. If he and Evra had been speaking English and Suarez said something akin to ‘calm down little black man’, then there’s a case for saying that he must know that people do not speak like this in English, without implication of offence.

      The conversation with Evra, though, was not in English, and it is not for the English to decide that this conversation had racist tones.

      Why was a respected Spaniard or Uruguayan not trusted to be co-opted onto the FA panel on such a key cultural issue ? Why was a decision on the implications of a conversation in a foreign language left to three Caucasian English men ?

      Of course, in the absence of actually neither being at the scene of the crime and misdemeanour we can’t know what Suarez actually intended nor what Evra contrived or contributed. Did Suarez use ‘negrito’ in a sentence such as ‘calm down bro’, or did he racistly patronise Evra with the equivalent of ‘calm down little black man’ ?

      It’s reasonable to suspect that Evra and the FA have gone with the latter interpretation. We can assert with confidence, however, given the virulence of LFC statement on the FA’s judgement, that the club and player are firmly convinced of the former emphasis.

      Furthermore there have been leaks to suggest the key offending term was not ‘negrito’ but the potentially more explosive and internationally more recognisable ‘negro’.

      Again, given the reaction of Suarez and LFC it is reasonable to assume that when Suarez stated in a recent interview that he called Evra a word that ‘his own team mates would use with him’ that he was more likely to be referencing the harmless diminutive version, ‘negrito’.

      So it comes down to one man intended one thing, another man received that intention entirely differently . Word against word. Interpretation against interpretation. Will against will. So where is the FA’s case ?

      Did they look at the respective credibilities of the protagonists and find that one had a more honest disposition than the other? A tricky and risky call if they chose that route. Did they consider if one man had a penchant for racism, or was circumstantially likely to default to racist name calling? Did they for one nano-second give a man the benefit of more than reasonable doubt ?

      Why too, has the apparent allegation from the LFC camp that Evra initially racistly labelled Suarez a ‘Sudaca’ just been parked ?

      Not that this even would justify a racist retort from the Liverpool man, but surely as a minimum, in the FA’s simplistic world view, this should have been seen as a case of a tit for tatting. If Evra was racist first it wouldn’t exonerate Suarez, but in ignoring Evra’s contribution the credibility of the FA’s process is entirely self undermined, and in turn the case against Suarez is inherently weakened.

      The truth is that, regardless of what the FA’s belated official statement on this affair will say, they found the case too complex and nuanced so they went with crudest version of objectivity they could contrive.

      Make no mistake, Suarez has been damned because the word used in his language in English refers to skin colour, and in English if you do that you are de facto being insulting and racist. There is virtually no room for manoeuvre in Anglo Saxon parlance.

      The FA consider that in Suarez’s land you can say what the f**k you like, because, ya know, they’re a bit (whisper it) backward in those hotter far-away places. They’re not up to speed on the liberal dinner party etiquette that Daily Mail, King and country FA stalwarts can always be counted to keep abreast of.

      How ironic that a traditional bastion of conservatism (in every sense) such as the football association now finds itself a standard bearer for equality and the fairer society.

      We at the FA and we are now down with the kids and this whole 21st century PC speak thing. We love black people. Gays ? Those guys are great too. More of them the merrier. Anyone who doesn’t like them wants shooting, or stringing up, or to be forced to do some national service or something. That’ll straighten them out.

      You can’t, it seems, teach old dogma new tricks. The irony that in belatedly adopting liberal ideals a Jurassic institution such as the FA are only mentally able to take on things as complex as ideals in their primary school two dimensional forms.

      God forbid they see the perversity in their riding rough shod over the subtleties of a man’s culture and use of language in a shallow and transparent attempt to be seen to be surfing the big wave of righteousness.

      We the outsiders, reduced to trying to sneak a peek into the Suarez-Evra case through the cracks in the press , or via our club’s defiant statement are left ultimately with one key decision.

      Who do we trust the most to be telling us the truth and interpreting this situation correctly ?

      This then is the crux of why Liverpool fans assert their right to defend their champion, and to do so with their moralities held high.

      The world accuses us, of course, of flagrant partisanship. Guilty as charged.

      We are partisan with this incarnation of Liverpool football club (as opposed to the Hicks/Gillett monster).

      We are partisan with Kenny Dalglish. We now believe in the institution and we have always believed in the man.

      We don’t believe in the Football Association and never have done.They have never before stood for truth, meritocracy, justice and fairness. They have so very rarely shown themselves to be able, sensitive and intelligent.

      There are no occasions when one can say the FA behaved with nobility and courage. When did that body ever seem anything but a self serving club rife with corrupt cronyism. Never. Ever.

      This is our truth, show us yours.
      a very astute, intelligent and sensitive piece of analysis. great article.
      ozi_wozzy
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1532: Dec 29, 2011 05:49:14 pm
      Or the 3rd option, he's just a whinging crying little C*NT!!!

      closer to this...
      or fourth

      "boss, he called me the n word"
      "which one?"
      "dunno, it sounded racists"
      "let's have him, i'll make the calls to the fa and get the ball rolling"
      "i called him something really racists though, will i get into trouble?"
      "what? i wasn't listening, stop your irritating whinging"
      Aggerdoo
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1533: Dec 29, 2011 07:13:37 pm
      Here's the jist of the row:

      Suarez has admitted calling Evra a Negro/Negrito and that ISN'T deemed offensive in Latin America.

      Evra has admitted calling Suarez a Sudaca, a term that's offensive in Latin America.

      So anyone with half a brain can see why Liverpool have got the "hump"

      If for example, both players were given equal punishment we wouldn't be having this on-going row

      I can understand Liverpool, Dalglish and Suarez's frustration.

      To Suarez, he feels he as been abused and Evra has walked away scot free when in Suarez's eyes he (Evra) is the guilty party.

      How anyone claiming to support Liverpool Football Club can't follow this logic is baffling.

      We stop with the first line. There is no quote from Luis Suarez himself saying he called Evra a negrito or negro or anything in particular.

      HUYTON RED
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1534: Dec 29, 2011 07:26:19 pm
      We stop with the first line. There is no quote from Luis Suarez himself saying he called Evra a negrito or negro or anything in particular.



      No, he spoke to a paper in Uruguay during the international break, so we do know it is either negrito or negro.
      kevinho
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1535: Dec 29, 2011 08:03:15 pm
      At least it wasn't "mallate".
      AZPatriot
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1536: Dec 29, 2011 08:15:52 pm

      Your such a Guero Kev.

      On another note from Wiki

      Quote
      The Negrito are a class of several ethnic groups who inhabit isolated parts of Southeast Asia.[1]

      Their current populations include 12 Andamanese peoples of the Andaman Islands, six Semang peoples of Malaysia, the Mani of Thailand, and the Aeta, Agta, Ati, and 30 other peoples of the Philippines. Reports from British traders also speak of negrito people on Borneo (Sarawak). (Journal of the Malayan Branch Royal Asiatic Society, Vol. XXIX, part 1, 1956)

      Negritos share some common physical features with African pygmy populations, including short stature, natural afro-hair texture, and dark skin; however, their origin and the route of their migration to Asia is still a matter of great speculation. They are the most genetically distant human population from Africans at most loci studied thus far (except for MC1R, which codes for dark skin).

      They have also been shown to have separated early from Asians, suggesting that they are either surviving descendants of settlers from an early migration out of Africa, commonly referred to as the Proto-Australoids, or that they are descendants of one of the founder populations of modern humans.[2]

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negrito


      Is it possible that Evra is in fact one of the 12 Andamanese peoples of the Andaman Islands
      Rush
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1537: Dec 29, 2011 10:08:07 pm
      My 12 year old son just told me Sky have removed the 'Luis Suarez' jingle from the extended 'I just can't get enough' advert.

      If that's true, I'm gobsmacked :mad:
      Jevon_YNWA
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1538: Dec 30, 2011 03:09:09 pm
      Whoa....the utter overreaction by media or whichever Man United has-been wants to comment is staggering.
      MIRO
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      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1539: Dec 30, 2011 04:13:30 pm
      http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/16366160.stm


       :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: 

      Swiss FA set a points deduction on FC Sion.


      United stay out of Europe. No reprieve.

      Cant help bad luck gentlemen !



      Lovin It !


      FC Sion have been deducted 36 points by the Swiss Football Association (SFV) for fielding ineligible players.

      The club had been adjudged to have fielded six ineligible players signed during a transfer embargo.

      Subsequently, Fifa had threatened to suspend the Swiss national side and the country's club sides from all competitions if Sion were not punished.

      This could have meant FC Basel being ejected from the Champions League and Manchester United reinstated.

      The Swiss champions knocked Sir Alex Ferguson's side out of European football's elite competition and into the Europa League, but could have fallen foul of Fifa's sanction had the SFV not moved to punish Sion.

          This points deduction is to punish the illegal behaviour of FC Sion, also contrary to the statutes and rules, by illegitimately getting around the transfer ban imposed by Fifa and fielding non-eligible players

      Sion had been placed under a Fifa transfer embargo after football's world governing body ruled the club had been guilty of inducing Egypt goalkeeper Essam El-Hadary to break his contract with Cairo-based club Al Ahly in 2008.

      However, the Swiss club proceeded to sign six players in the summer. Those six players took their case to a civil court in the canton of Valais, which ruled they could play, and Sion subsequently fielded them in the Swiss league.

      Sion then fielded five of the six players during the Europa League play-off tie against Celtic and were kicked out of the Uefa competition as a result, but had not been punished by their national FA.

      The Swiss side have now been docked three points for each of the 12 league and cup matches in which one or more of the six ineligible players appeared.

      The penalty leaves them 10th and last in the Swiss Super League, on minus five points. ;D

      The SFV confirmed that Sion have the right to appeal to Court of Arbitration for Sport against the points deduction, while Fifa said an emergency committee would study the SFV documents relating to the sanction early next month.

      Its the annual pre season that swung it for us............ ;D

      FIFA demanded it AND they will only look at a review next month. Not in time for the CL then. Clever FIFA. Nice FIFA. Like them.

      HUYTON RED
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      • 40,389 posts | 8632 
      Re: FA charge Luis Suarez over Evra (Update: 8 game ban)
      Reply #1540: Dec 30, 2011 04:54:24 pm
      This is what the shitbag said after Schmeichel made a racist remark towards Ian Wright:


      Alex Ferguson, the Manchester United, yesterday denied that his goalkeeper Peter Schmeichel had racially abused the Arsenal striker Ian Wright and described the accusation as a "slur" on the club.

      Ferguson was responding to claims by Wright that the scuffle with the Danish international in the tunnel at the end of Wednesday's highly-charged Premiership game at Highbury had been provoked by racial abuse.

      The pair had earlier clashed on the pitch when a two-footed lunge by Wright left Schmeichel clutching his ankle.

      "We can categorically deny any racist remark whatsoever from Peter Schmeichel, I can assure you of that," Ferguson told Sky Sport. "There is no question of that, so it's very disappointing to read that. He's very upset. He's got a family to think about too, his family back in Denmark reading all this."

      Ferguson considers the accusation as a "slur" on the reputation of United, who are a "worldwide institution". He pointed out that the club frequently spread the football message overseas.

      "Two years ago we were coaching in the townships of South Africa," he said. "And Peter was part of that. We have supporters everywhere in the world. We place great store in our reputation, so it's a big slur on us"

      Schmeichel's reputation is already under threat from the possibility of criminal charges relating to alleged racist abuse arising from an incident with Wright when the teams met in the Premiership at Old Trafford in November.

      Ferguson's defence of his keeper was echoed by Arsene Wenger's assertion that Wright's tackle on Schmeichel did not rate in his top 30 worst tackles this season. The Arsenal manager insisted that it was the media and public's reaction that was over the top and not the striker's attempt to win the ball from the keeper.

      "I have seen many tackles and punches that have not been judged or seen by the referee and nobody talks about them," he said. "I can show you 30 worse tackles since the beginning of the season in the Premier League that nobody spoke about.

      "Is it a foul or is it the personalities of the two people involved, or is it the game? I think there is a little bit of all of that, more than the foul."

      As the clamour for the Association to charge Wright grew, Wenger added: "I think it looked worse than it was. Maybe it was so spectacular because he jumped high but he touched the ball with two feet. I think it was a foul but I am really surprised [at the fuss] because the referee has made his decision. I am surprise that people still speak about that."

      Wright has denied that he deliberately went over the ball. "I admit I lunged in, but I landed on the ball, not the man," he said. "The referee did not book me and there was no intent to hurt anyone."

      Of the tunnel scuffle, Wright said: "I wouldn't have reacted like that if it was an ordinary insult. It was racial and completely out of order."

      Wenger attempted to defuse the situation by suggesting a novel way of ending the feud.

      "I think it will be good to bring this to an end because I think so much has been created from such a small thing," he said. "Maybe they will meet before the next game and sort this out, and kill each other!"

      Ruud Gullit, Chelsea's dreadlocked manager, also resorted to humour when he disclosed how he keeps his temper when insulted on the pitch.

      "If someone calls me a black so-and-so, I don't take it as a racist thing because I am black!" said Gullit, whose team play Manchester United in another vital title game at Stamford Bridge today. "Take it as a compliment, it means they are probably afraid of you."

      As one of the most gifted players of his generation, the Dutchman with a Surinam background was confronted by all kinds of abuse from opponents desperate to unsettle him.

      "The key is that there is emotion in the game and if someone is red, you'll call them a red whatsoever," he said.

      "The best thing always for every player, wherever he comes from, is to just try to play well and play your own game and then all these things vanish.

      "If people are swearing at me that means they are afraid of me. That gives me a sort of superiority over them."

      However, he draws the line at organised racism. "When Ajax played in Hungary the crowd made jungle sounds all the time when the black players had the ball. That is abusive," he said.

      "That had nothing to do with the football game, it had nothing to do with emotions, it wasn't funny."


      If ever there was a case of don't do as I do, do as I say, this is it!!



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