If the results went differently

Firstly I want to point out that I'm well aware the points didn't go differently and it's pretty pointless speculating on what might of happened but I'll do it anyway.

Would people still be moaning about where we are and how far off top we are and how sh*t our players are and ect ect if the results went something like

2-0 win against Sunderland
1-1 draw with Arsenal

2-1 win against Swansea
0-0 draw with Chelsea

2-0 win against Norwich
1-1 draw with Everton

Basically, would the season be as disastrous as people have made out if we'd picked up the wins at home against the "lesser" teams but slipped up on our travels in three of our more difficult away games. We'd be no worse off points wise, we'd still be as close to the top as we are now and we'd still have the same squad. But would people consider that to be a relatively decent start compared to the disappointing start people think we've had?

Funny how results make people think.

We're alright where we are at the moment. Nothing spectacular but certainly not disastrous! I'd have bitten your left bollock off to get to this position considering where we were last year! It's progress guys - look at it in relative terms!

I've mentioned this before when we beat Arsenal 2-0 at the Emirates.

I said "There's not much difference because we usually draw with Arsenal there and beat Sunderland at home."

I am happy with our performances against the bigger teams. Should have beaten Man City and Man United at home but finishing the weaker teams off, especially at home is what we're lacking.

And i would have his right one  , i know what your saying Billy, i think some posters were expecting us to be in the top 3 by now and because we are not feel disappointed by that, we would of course been better off had we not hit the woodwork as much as we have or had we been more clinical,but the table does'nt lie and we are where we are and sitting pretty.

   IKWT   YNWA

Im happy with the results against the "top" teams so far....and that is what really matters.
The other lesser problems can be fixed.

Not sure who has been making the season out to be "disastrous"?
Unless you mean those who crawl out of the woodwork every time we lose or draw...

We're probably about where I expected us to be at this stage of the season - I HOPED we would be higher, but we're not, so F**k it, I'll just carry on supporting the lads and enjoying (mostly) the footy and see where we are after another 23 games.
My guess is that we'll be in the top 4, and ready to push on soon, to the next level.

If is the best word around. If we won all our games we would be top of the league.

 What's also interesting is that we haven't as far as I can remember won one or drawn one single game where you could say "f*ck me we got a result there, they battered us". The only game in which we've been comprehensively outplayed was Tottenham Away.

 We lost at Stoke and were unbelieveably unfortunate so to do, ditto at Fulham. We drew at Home with Norwich despite hitting the woodwork half a dozen times, battered both Manc teams and didn't beat either etc etc. We could quite concieveably have eight or nine points more than we have now, without playing any better than we have.

 Now I know this will bring the mouth foamers out in force but it's wrth pointing out anyway. In our best ever league season under Rafa we got every bounce going in the early season, last minute winners week on week, players getting sent off against us left right and centre etc etc. Hang on I'd better say something here before someone keels over on us: I'M NOT SAYING WE FINISHED SECOND BECAUSE WE WERE LUCKY. What I am saying that if we had been equally lucky at the start of this season, we'd be right up there. It's all fine margins, but IMHO this is the best side we've had in a few seasons.

 I'm just going to repeat for the hard of reading; I'M NOT SAYING WE FINISHED SECOND BECAUSE WE WERE LUCKY.

One of Rafa biggest critics on here trying to call us lucky during Rafa best season will just derail the thread. No need for it

One of Rafa biggest critics on here trying to call us lucky during Rafa best season will just derail the thread. No need for it

 You couldn't make it up. You are joking right? You must be, I cannot believe you are being serious.

Ya u couldn't a poster post something about what if we won games this season And you Mick who everyone knows is a big critic of Rafa decides to go off topic and talk about Rafa being lucky that season. You were looking for the reaction and shouldn't have brought it up will. This topic has absolutely zero to do with Rafa. Do you know the last time we won the league we were lucky in a few matches so F***ing what

Ya u couldn't a poster post something about what if we won games this season And you Mick who everyone knows is a big critic of Rafa decides to go off topic and talk about Rafa being lucky that season. You were looking for the reaction and shouldn't have brought it up will. This topic has absolutely zero to do with Rafa. Do you know the last time we won the league we were lucky in a few matches so f**king what

 I'm not going to get drawn into this discussion. I'm simply going to suggest that you revisit the original post and read the bit in capital letters again.


 Anyway, back on topic I think Billy makes a fair point. If our sequence of results were different but we had exactly the same number of points, some people wouldn't be moaning as much. Some still would though, of that I have no doubt.

Should nt be mentioned was mentioned to get a reaction which you say in your own post you expected.  This thread isn't a thread for a Rafa discussion

 Anyway back on topic, I think Billy makes a fair point about our sequence of results having an impact on peoples thoughts. It's been one of our failings over many seasons that we've not managed to beat newly promoted teams, it's happened to our cost under successive managers.

I think we've had a decent start we've been unlucky in most games, there is only Spurs and Swansea that springs to mind where I feel we got what we deserved, other than that a failure to convert the chances we have created has ultimately cost us points.

So at the moment for me were perfectly poised for a top 4 finish bare minimum, so the sequences of results are pretty much irrelevant, we are where we are which is in a healthy position in the league, playing good football and perfectly poised to take advantage of any one above us in the table slip ups and if we start converting a higher percentage of our chances, we'll move up the table pretty quickly in my opinion.

I feel like all teams, at some point, get to a "mean" performance level. Generally speaking, a team of our caliber will finish a much better amount of scoring chances than we have so far. What does this mean?

a)  We are well below average.

b) Because we're below our average, and are getting close to halfway done with the season, the second half could produce some blistering performances in order to get back to the "mean" level.

If we were at a 9% chance conversion rate 19 games in, and our mean conversion was 17, we'd have to finish a ridiculously high amount of chances to get there. Will we? Who knows. But I'm sure we will be putting them away at a higher clip. And given the fact that we have yet to lose by more than a goal (save for the Tottenham game), I think we'll see a lot of results turning.

On the original point of the post, I think if our home form was a bit better there would be a lot less moaning. It's hard to beat the big teams, but you only play them 1/4 of the time or so. It's the points you get in the other 3/4 of the game that really matter, I think, and we're in that stretch.

What's also interesting is that we haven't as far as I can remember won one or drawn one single game where you could say "f*ck me we got a result there, they battered us". The only game in which we've been comprehensively outplayed was Tottenham Away.

 We lost at Stoke and were unbelieveably unfortunate so to do, ditto at Fulham. We drew at Home with Norwich despite hitting the woodwork half a dozen times, battered both Manc teams and didn't beat either etc etc. We could quite concieveably have eight or nine points more than we have now, without playing any better than we have.

 Now I know this will bring the mouth foamers out in force but it's wrth pointing out anyway. In our best ever league season under Rafa we got every bounce going in the early season, last minute winners week on week, players getting sent off against us left right and centre etc etc. Hang on I'd better say something here before someone keels over on us: I'M NOT SAYING WE FINISHED SECOND BECAUSE WE WERE LUCKY. What I am saying that if we had been equally lucky at the start of this season, we'd be right up there. It's all fine margins, but IMHO this is the best side we've had in a few seasons.

 I'm just going to repeat for the hard of reading; I'M NOT SAYING WE FINISHED SECOND BECAUSE WE WERE LUCKY.

I agree if we had had a smidgin of luck we would indeed be right up there,and Spurs beat 9 men it should be remembered.

But if were beating the big teams, we should be doing the same against the smaller ones.

If we beat say man city away, im not going to say I'll be happy with a draw in our next feature at home to a smaller side . I'll say in these two fixtures I would have taken a draw at city and a win vs the smaller side.

But after beating the big side , then I see a point in next game as sh*t!

 At the end of the season we will be in the position we deserve to be in

Firstly I want to point out that I'm well aware the points didn't go differently and it's pretty pointless speculating on what might of happened but I'll do it anyway.

Would people still be moaning about where we are and how far off top we are and how sh*t our players are and ect ect if the results went something like

2-0 win against Sunderland
1-1 draw with Arsenal

2-1 win against Swansea
0-0 draw with Chelsea

2-0 win against Norwich
1-1 draw with Everton

Basically, would the season be as disastrous as people have made out if we'd picked up the wins at home against the "lesser" teams but slipped up on our travels in three of our more difficult away games. We'd be no worse off points wise, we'd still be as close to the top as we are now and we'd still have the same squad. But would people consider that to be a relatively decent start compared to the disappointing start people think we've had?

Funny how results make people think.

Totally agree man, I was thinking the same last week.

As Kenny keeps saying as well, only bad game we have played is spuds away. The rest we have played well, and not got the rewards, but this bodes well for the rest of the season and the next few seasons, this team will only get better if they stick together.

Every team in the league has been unlucky in games this season

Basically, would the season be as disastrous as people have made out if we'd picked up the wins at home against the "lesser" teams but slipped up on our travels in three of our more difficult away games.

I had said something similar after the Chelsea game.

A lot of people were saying before the Swansea/Chelsea game that 4 points would be a good return.  Expecting a win against Swansea and a draw against Chelsea.

As it turned out if we had done it that way, Chelsea would have been a point further ahead of us.

The point you make is very valid.  Quite often people don't see the bigger picture and can't do the maths.  In the three examples you point out I am sure everyone prefers that the results were reversed.

Sitting nicely tucked in for top 4 position having done ok pwerformed solidily rather than spectacularly. Our away form could be the key to our success this year so who cares how we get the points as long as we do.