'The Importance of the 'Spine Team'

But Kenny's team has already won more than that team ever won. Only 4 players out of that team ever won anything at Liverpool before Kenny, 5 of those players have already won something under Kenny.

Don't start, wasn't saying I wanted Rafa back, just that the team in the photo was one of our most talented for years, and we paid the nowadays equivalent of peanuts for a lot of those players.

And if I must get into that debate, I would swap that team for the current one in a heartbeat.

Three things are sad about that 2009 spine.

1. They didn't win anything.
2. Three of those players asked for transfers due to the failure of our previous owners to kick forwards.
3. The remaining three have got older, lost form and look sadly a shadow of their former selves.

And if I must get into that debate, I would swap that team for the current one in a heartbeat.

Agree Ayrton and I'm not sure anyone could look at that photo and think any different as the team above has quality all over it.

But the current team is still a work in progress and in a few years we could be looking back at this one in the same way.

There's no doubting we had a very strong starting 11 that season but beyond those 11 we didn't have a strong squad. 

If I remember correctly it took Rafa 4 seasons to assemble them, with more than a few duds along the way.  So let's compare again when Kenny's had the same length of time 

Don't start, wasn't saying I wanted Rafa back, just that the team in the photo was one of our most talented for years, and we paid the nowadays equivalent of peanuts for a lot of those players.

And if I must get into that debate, I would swap that team for the current one in a heartbeat.

Wasn't "starting anything" was just stating a fact. That team had some great players but won nothing.  I never even mentioned Rafa....

Will they ever with Agger and Gerrard injuries play together.

Why wouldn't they Corb, this season is not over yet,and we have next season to look forward to, Gerrard maybe past his best but he is still class and head and shoulders above most midfielders in the league, why do always put a negative spin on things ?

I never even mentioned Rafa....

Just have.

You hardly think the current team is a patch on that team do you saint that team finished on 86 points what points are we now.

Just have.

But only after he did 

I think it's great to have a good spine, but unless they have good players around them you will still win nothing. It's the quality of the team/squad as a whole that counts.

You hardly think the current team is a patch on that team do you saint that team finished on 86 points what points are we now.

 

Ask me again when Kenny has been here 4 years and has bought and sold as many players as were needed to build that side.

Divide by 2, Corbs.

One of the biggest shames for me is that some fans are to blame for our downfall. Certain fans allowed the media to thrive on Rafa's one bad season and that's what ultimately allowed H & G to get rid without a huge backlash. The people who wanted Rafa gone either didn't understand The Liverpool Way or just made an enormous error in judgement. The sacking of Rafa was the beginning of the end.

One of the biggest shames for me is that some fans are to blame for our downfall. Certain fans allowed the media to thrive on Rafa's one bad season and that's what ultimately allowed H & G to get rid without a huge backlash. The people who wanted Rafa gone either didn't understand The Liverpool Way or just made an enormous error in judgement. The sacking of Rafa was the beginning of the end.

No mate, Kenny leaving was the beginning of the end.  Hopefully his return marks a new beginning.

Kenny is here this summer a year and a half. Im looking forward to two and a half yeartime  when we have as good a team and are hammering all before us in the champions league again.

That is the strongest team we had since 91 and was a joy to watch. Rafa deserves great credit for building as strong a team with hicks and gillette there.

Kenny is here this summer a year and a half. Im looking forward to two and a half yeartime  when we have as good a team and are hammering all before us in the champions league again.

That is the strongest team we had since 91 and was a joy to watch. Rafa deserves great credit for building as strong a team with hicks and gillette there.

As all the nice girls say, it's not what you have got ...... it's what you do with it.

Christ Court starts a thread with a very good opening post and within 30 replies it's turned into a Kenny v Rafa debate.

As for that team, yeah it was a F***ing brilliant team but very much like this side it failed to beat the "lesser" sides at Anfield. In the League that year we drew at home to Stoke, Fulham, West Ham, Hull, Everton, Man City, Arsenal. 14 dropped points at home, that's what cost us that year so as good as that side was in 2008/09 it still didn't have the player to unlock the sides that parked the bus. Everton is always a tricky game at any ground, Arsenal was a fluke result with Arshavin but the other five are games we should of won. I think the draw with West Ham took us top of the table though. This year, we've again struggled at home with draws, as well as a few home defeats.

When will we see an improvement on that side? Over time we will.

In fact I'd hazard a guess that people would take today's back four over the one in 08/09. Some would take Lucas over Mascherano. Some would take Suarez over Torres. Some would take anybody over Babel. So about half of today's team would of made the team of 08/09. Are we really that far behind where we were?

If we had our spine fully fit all season this year, we'd obviously be in a much better position than where we are. If we had Reina, Agger, Skrtel, Lucas, Gerrard, Suarez, Carroll fit and available all season we'd be much better off. There's no denying that but we haven't and that's why you need competent cover. We, in crucial areas, do not have it this season. Unfortunately neither Henderson or Adam are cover for Gerrard. Neither Coates or Carragher are cover for Skrtel or Agger. Kuyt isn't cover for Suarez.

But if we can keep hold of the majority of this squad in the summer (obviously some will part) and we can bring in one or two decent buys then our spine is starting to look good enough again. It may not be as good as 08/09 but then again 08/09 wasn't as good as 88/89.

For me, we're not a million miles off what we want. We're close and it will come down to some smart signings in the summer. Doesn't have to be big name signings or big money signings just smart.

You hardly think the current team is a patch on that team do you saint that team finished on 86 points what points are we now.

And that was at the end of our former manager's FIFTH season in charge. 

Wow what a team that was, regardless if they didn't win anything. Seeing that picture makes me sad because of the quality we had in that team.

Regarding the spine, we simply haven't recovered from selling Alonso and Torres. To me, Lucas has filled in nicely for Mascherano, and Agger/Skrtel are a great partnership when fit. But, Gerrard can't replace Alonso (different type of midfielder), nor can Adam (quality) or Henderson (mystery - although I'd like to see him played in that role before the season's over).

The strike partnership is another thing. Torres and Gerrard were amazing together, and they had a great balance between their respective strengths. We don't have a striker that can play like Torres could, controlling the front line and being a pacey, dominate lone striker. As much as we love Luis, he just isn't that type of forward, and Carroll certainly isn't. Nor can Suarez replace the Gerrard of 08/09 playing off the striker. Gerrard and Suarez doesn't quite work, nor does Suarez and Carroll, nor does Gerrard and Carroll. In a weird sort of way, it's almost as if Gerrard can't really fit in anymore if we want the best from him.

The current spine is missing that deep-lying CM partner for Lucas and a dominate striker. Maybe Gerrard, at 32 next season, can develop into that regista, but whether or not we're dominate up front will dictate where Gerrard plays, if that makes sense.

We had the best keeper in the world, the best midfield in the world and the best forward in the world.

We now only have the best keeper in the world, who is having an off season and only one of the holy midfield trinity left.

Some well rounded posts in here. Thought I'd leave it until after work before having another crack at this topic.

I may have derailed myself slightly in my opening post, (nostalgia, & a bit of U2 had me quite inspired. With a tad of excitement). Didn't mean for a Rafa - Kenny debate.  What I meant to add was that, does anyone believe that the likes of our under performing signings that Kenny has brought in, will become key first team players in the future?  Aka spine players?

The likes of Henderson, Adam, Downing, Carroll.  Let's even throw 'the kids' in to the mix, Kelly, Flanno, Spearing, Sterling, Suso, Eccleston, ETC.

My personal opinion is that the players that have come through from the academy, have shown much more grit, determination, and dare I say potential, than the likes of the players brought in.

I'm completely lost on Adam. His early comparisons to Xabi Alonso are beyond a joke, & his 'specialist' set-pieces are even worse. Well at least he didn't cost £20m+. Over-rated waste of space.

Some could say the same for Downing. Completely on the fence with the lad.  Read a 'stat' that he's not made an assist all season? I'd still give him another chance, I thought he's played well, but gone really quiet in most parts of the season. Perhaps he needs confidence.

Henderson seems to do a lot of tracking the man, and the ball.  Goes missing throughout the game too often. Hope the experience from this season takes him on leaps and bounds next time around.

We finally come to our No. 9, Andy Carroll.  Last but not least. 

Price tag aside. He's had his up's and downs. I just can't work him out.  It's not that he's not good enough, there is definite potential in the lad, if played right.  He just seems to be... lazy? Or does he lack enough awareness? People are far too critical of him, than they should be. I think he's going to come good, if given enough games, and not dropped after he has a good game.  Another issue on confidence.

For me, we're not a million miles off what we want. We're close and it will come down to some smart signings in the summer. Doesn't have to be big name signings or big money signings just smart.

Spot on.  We need to be smart, and assess who stays and who goes, come the summer. The smart signings will be key.

It's amazing how quickly something so good can go so bad. But I really don't think it's THAT bad. Performance wise, this is the best team we've had since then I feel. We have played some outstanding football at time, we just can't finish. We've also been unlucky not having our current spine play together much, if at all. For the record, my spine is: Lucas, Agger, Skrtel, Gerrard and Suarez, and Johnson just off that. Can't recall if they've played one minute together this year.

Obviously, results wise, we're in the shi**er, but I think football is one of those games where you just don't get your crack of the whip. Every team has sh*t performances. Ours would be far less worrying if we had won the games we should have earlier this season. But we didn't. Oh well. We also won a trophy, something which that spine never did. We're also in with a shout of making the FA Cup Final, and I don't think that spine even made the semis (could be wrong, can't really remember).

I'm not as down as many. I expect better, but I understand how it could be so much worse, and I have faith that we'll push out of this.

Reina
Enrique
Agger
Skrtel
Gerrard
Lucas
Suarez

They are our spine when fit. If we could add two players to that in the summer it would be great.

I think the point became a Rafa v Kenny debate. Whereas I think it should be a Rafa v Comolli debate. Of the spine above Suarez and Enrique weren't bought by Rafa (Gerrard aside). I Enrique better than Aurelio or Arbeloa. The point is you CANNOT spunk 80 million pounds on Hendo, Adam, Carroll and Downing. Everyone can make mistakes but that is too much money to throw away. THese players can be good players for some percentage of games but are they players who allow you to control the tempo of a game to avoid panic at the end!

We had the best keeper in the world, the best midfield in the world and the best forward in the world.

We now only have the best keeper in the world, who is having an off season and only one of the holy midfield trinity left.

This is the problem these players were not replaced,(Alonso and Torres) were never replaced thats the main problem for me !!!