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      LFC Reds Poll

      Q. END OF 2014/15 POLL: Brendan Rodgers - Stay or Go? (Voting was locked on 1st June 2015)

      Stay
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      Go
      (74.6%)

      Brendan Rodgers (Liverpool -> Celtic -> Leicester)

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      FL Red
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8234: Feb 14, 2013 03:20:11 pm
      I look at it like this, IF Brendan (big if) can show that he's got the right skills and the right mindset to manage this club, and if he gets backing and gets us moving in the right direction in fairly short order (by next year this time?) then we have maybe found a long term solution.

      However, there are a lot of "Ifs" in that and IF any one of them don't come to fruition then we are going to be back at the drawing board starting over and at that point I'd be willing to bet that FSG may tire of the "process" of getting us back to the top. Who knows what that could lead to, so for that reason alone, I am REALLY hoping that Brendan works out and I'm possibly naively backing him in the short term because I think he will work out if given a chance not only by FSG but by the fans as well.
      Rush
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8235: Feb 14, 2013 03:26:04 pm
      KK should not have been sacked, but he was - moving on
      Rodgers has not been our manager for very long, and people are asking for him to be sacked
      Both statements are wrong, KK should have stayed, and so should Rodgers

      Rodgers was brought in because KK failed in the league, that's a fact. Deep down, we know that we don't really give a toss about domestic cups when our league form is hovering around 8th. Take that last part in, I'm saying they are a cheap imitation of what we really want, 'if' our league position is poor. In those circumstances, cups are nothing and do not represent the true situation of a side that knows its bread and butter is the league.

      In fact, I'd go as far and say something similar to what Rafa said after winning the ECL. Which was, in some ways, it was the worse thing that could have happened to him. Why? Because most were now thinking he'd win the league. It doesn't work that way, they require two completely different mind sets.

      Cups are nice, but they are the side show. Every team with real ambitions is focusing on the league, not cups. In short, you cannot use cups to judge Rodgers with, when KK's league position was almost indentical - i.e. simply not good enough.

      The reason Rodgers will not be sacked for finishing the same or lower than KK, is because sacking another manager would be a disaster. In that respect, yes, the gaffer has got a free pass. But 1. that's not his fault, and 2. it is unfair to use it to beat Rodgers over the head with.

      You can't compare KK's reign to Rodgers' reign, and to do so is unfair to either
      Rush
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8236: Feb 14, 2013 03:26:50 pm
      It's your opinion Rush mate not the reality.

      Which part?
      srslfc
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8237: Feb 14, 2013 03:29:49 pm

      The part about the cup win papering over the cracks.

      It's your opinion that here were cracks to paper over or if they were big enough that Kenny couldn't rectify them this season.
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8238: Feb 14, 2013 03:32:21 pm
      EDIT: In other words, sacking the gaffer now will unsettle our predicament, and we can ill afford to do that. As for KK, ask yourself why he was sacked, if we were not in such a state? The cup win and cup runs were great, but the only papered over the cracks. Don't believe that, it's up to you, but that's the reality

      I don't know how you're trying to balance the argument that it was right to sack Kenny and not Brendan:

      Let's compare them

      Kenny

      League Cup - Won
      F.A. Cup - Final
      European Qualification - Achieved
      League points after 26 games - 39
      Goals conceded after 26 games - 25
      Goals scored after 26 games - 30
      League position after 26 games - 7th
      Results against Man U - Won, Drew and Lost
      Results against Man C - Won, Drew and Lost
      Results against Arsenal - Won and Lost
      Results against Chelsea - Won 3 and Lost 1
      Results against Everton - Won 2

      Brendan

      League Cup - Lost to Swansea 4th Round
      F.A. Cup - Final - Lost to Oldham 4th Round
      European Qualification - Looking extremely unlikely
      League points after 26 games - 36 (3 less)
      Goals conceded after 26 games - 34
      Goals scored after 26 games - 44
      League position after 26 games - 9th (2 places lower)
      Results against Man U - Lost and Lost
      Results against Man C - Drew and Drew
      Results against Arsenal - Drew and Lost
      Results against Chelsea - Drew
      Results against Everton - Drew

      There is absolutely no signs of progress or anything to suggest that your graphical analogy of a car crash is being avoided, more proof exists that we are heading straight through the red light. Thankfully I don't buy into the idea of sacking managers, because there is an awful lot more reasons to see Brendan heading for the door than there ever was with Kenny. The thing that sickens me is Kenny's final reign with us continually being painted as such a disaster or car crash when it simply wasn't!

      Kenny Dalglish deserves better than his reign to be described as the final stage of a car crash and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't your intention as I have more respect for you as a forum poster than to think you'd actually believe such pure bullshit. Kenny brought success back to this club and restored pride and stability when it was most needed again.

      Brendan deserves our support because we're better than other clubs who install revolving doors in the manager's office, but he hasn't earned the right to coast through this season without criticism and expectations to improve and learn from his mistakes. More importantly though, Kenny Dalglish's record in any form should be defended with passion and pride by his fans before anyone who wishes to sully his name.

      Rush
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8239: Feb 14, 2013 03:33:29 pm
      The part about the cup win papering over the cracks.

      It's your opinion that here were cracks to paper over or if they were big enough that Kenny couldn't rectify them this season.
      KK finished 8th in the league

      The real issue, is folk wanting the gaffer sacked because he (might) finish 8th. I'm saying that's stupid talk

      Winning two cups in not a true representationn of where your team is at. The league position does not lie, but cup wins can
      Rush
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8240: Feb 14, 2013 03:35:36 pm
      I don't know how you're trying to balance the argument that it was right to sack Kenny and not Brendan:

      Let's compare them

      Kenny

      League Cup - Won
      F.A. Cup - Final
      European Qualification - Achieved
      League points after 26 games - 39
      Goals conceded after 26 games - 25
      Goals scored after 26 games - 30
      League position after 26 games - 7th
      Results against Man U - Won, Drew and Lost
      Results against Man C - Won, Drew and Lost
      Results against Arsenal - Won and Lost
      Results against Chelsea - Won 3 and Lost 1
      Results against Everton - Won 2

      Brendan

      League Cup - Lost to Swansea 4th Round
      F.A. Cup - Final - Lost to Oldham 4th Round
      European Qualification - Looking extremely unlikely
      League points after 26 games - 36 (3 less)
      Goals conceded after 26 games - 34
      Goals scored after 26 games - 44
      League position after 26 games - 9th (2 places lower)
      Results against Man U - Lost and Lost
      Results against Man C - Drew and Drew
      Results against Arsenal - Drew and Lost
      Results against Chelsea - Drew
      Results against Everton - Drew

      There is absolutely no signs of progress or anything to suggest that your graphical analogy of a car crash is being avoided, more proof exists that we are heading straight through the red light. Thankfully I don't buy into the idea of sacking managers, because there is an awful lot more reasons to see Brendan heading for the door than there ever was with Kenny. The thing that sickens me is Kenny's final reign with us continually being painted as such a disaster or car crash when it simply wasn't!

      Kenny Dalglish deserves better than his reign to be described as the final stage of a car crash and I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this wasn't your intention as I have more respect for you as a forum poster than to think you'd actually believe such pure bullshit. Kenny brought success back to this club and restored pride and stability when it was most needed again.

      Brendan deserves our support because we're better than other clubs who install revolving doors in the manager's office, but he hasn't earned the right to coast through this season without criticism and expectations to improve and learn from his mistakes. More importantly though, Kenny Dalglish's record in any form should be defended with passion and pride by his fans before anyone who wishes to sully his name.



      KK inherited a car crash

      Brendan inherited a car crash

      People want Brendan sacked because he inherited a car crash that KK inherited

      We don't sack Rodgers because of that and it was unfortunate that KK was sacked for the same reason. But he was, and that is not Rodgers' fault. It is FSG's fault.

      EDIT: Perhaps car crash is a bit strong, but we were in transition at both times, and have been since Rafa was sacked.
      Diego LFC
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8241: Feb 14, 2013 03:38:29 pm
      We don't sack Rodgers because of that and it was unfortunate that KK was sacked for the same reason. But he was, and that is not Rodgers' fault. It is FSG's fault.

      Is right. Two wrongs don't make a right, the weight of Kenny's sacking shouldn't be put on the wrong (Rodgers') shoulders.

      That is not to mention the transfer policy, which saw important players such as Bellamy, Kuyt and Maxi go without proper instant replacement - which suggests more of long term idea, agree with it or not (I don't, by the way).
      KopiteLuke
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8242: Feb 14, 2013 03:41:28 pm
      KK inherited a car crash

      Brendan inherited a car crash

      People want Brendan sacked because he inherited a car crash that KK inherited

      We don't sack Rodgers because of that and it was unfortunate that KK was sacked for the same reason. But he was, and that is not Rodgers' fault. It is FSG's fault.

      EDIT: Perhaps car crash is a bit strong, but we were in transition at both times, and have been since Rafa was sacked.

      Totally agree with this Rush, but you've changed your stance from us being one green light away from a car crash while Kenny was in charge to suggesting he should of stayed. I don't see one marrying with the other.

      Your last is absolutely spot on, neither should be sacked in truth and any fans calling for either to be shown the door were wrong in my opinion.
      billythered
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8243: Feb 14, 2013 03:41:33 pm
      Can we seriously knock this sh*te on the head, not only does it sound yank, it was started by f**king Arsenal fans for Wenger.

      Supporters have got the smell of blood in their nostrils since 2010 Rafa/Hodgson and think that we can hire and fire every manager who doesn't do it within the first six months. The Hodgson era was an aberration not the norm, or that should have been the case. It was a situation brought on by the culmination of years of terrible ownership and a "home team" comprising Ayre, Purslow & Broughton deciding to intervene in football matters.

      There was enough of a groundswell against Dalglish to ensure that his sacking was almost taken with a shrug of the shoulders. The sacking of Dalglish meant we were onto the third manager of the FSG era and that we went into a season with a squad made up of players signed by four different managers - something that never really goes well, unless each manager has been able to buy from the very top table.

      Now there's an element who actually do think they have the right to wield the guillotine at will, that they will kick and scream until the feller they want has the job.

      As Liverpudlians, we should recognise that Rodgers is on a steep learning curve as any manager we've ever had and support him, not slag him off every time we get beat - just because he isn't who some of us would have picked as manager.

      So let's stop trying to rustle up internet lynch mobs & support the team and gaffer we have. We only have to wait until the pricks in charge of the club decide some other poor c**t's getting two windows to turn a load of other managers' players and a few of his own into a Champions League squad.


      Spot on HR, the way some fans think/behave is beyond me, if they had their way we'd soon be on a par with chavs of this world,

      Some of you there need to get a f***in grip, F**k sake the fella's first season building a new side bit by bit, there are bound to be setbacks, I not any other half decent red will appreciate our ups and our downs, you should to, if not F**k off and moan & winge elsewhere.
      reddebs
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8244: Feb 14, 2013 03:41:45 pm
      Personally I think Brendan was told he's got 3 years, barring relegation. 

      My reasons being that he has said many times that it will take several transfer windows to improve the squad and that it could take longer than his contract to compete for the Title again.

      I have no problem with that other than it can lead to complacency both from him, the coaching staff and the players.  This point has been discussed many times on here as whenever there is a disappointing performance or result we're told "it's ok, we are rebuilding, we're in transition, it's a long term project, it's not going to happen overnight, blah, blah, blah".

      Targets are good but they have to be measurable.  What I mean is it can't just be about whether we are playing better football as that is subjective, what one person sees as better others might not.

      Maybe this season was all about reducing the wages, clearing out deadwood, Brendan working with the squad to see who fits and who doesn't, seeing where he needs to strengthen, seeing whats coming through the Academy and the real work starts next season.

      I've said this many, many times on this forum despite my opening sentence above, my worry is that FSG don't understand the game well enough to decide whether he is still the right person for the job and fear that he may go in the summer.

      I hope they do understand, as any "project" needs time to plan, organise, then deliver and for me Brendan is still in the planning stage.
      Redangel
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8245: Feb 14, 2013 03:46:12 pm
      Surely where KK is concerned we have to allow for the fact that he had the whole Evra/Suarez affair to deal with.
      He was lambasted by everyone, exept us, for backing his player. He then had to cope without Luis for 8 Games.
      Where would we be this season if we had not had Luis for 8 games. I dread to think.
      Kenny got things wrong, I accept that, but he had the experience behind him to put things right. I believe that this season he would have consolidated, and we would be higher in the league and still in the cups.
      That is my belief, my opinion, I do not as yet have the same confidence in Brendan.
      He will have to earn that, just as KK did as a player and manager.
      Rush
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8246: Feb 14, 2013 03:47:58 pm
      Totally agree with this Rush, but you've changed your stance from us being one green light away from a car crash while Kenny was in charge to suggesting he should of stayed. I don't see one marrying with the other.
      I've never said KK was to blame for our current position (though every manager has in someway contributed to it - even Rodgers). I've never said that, nor have I anywhere said that KK should have been sacked. I even said it was wrong of FSG to do so , but it was done nevertheless, and it was done solely down to the league position. Beating Rodgers over the head with that is wrong, regardless.

      Your last is absolutely spot on, neither should be sacked in truth and any fans calling for either to be shown the door were wrong in my opinion.

      Agreed mate, and that was the main thrust of my initial post
      srslfc
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8247: Feb 14, 2013 03:56:12 pm
      The real issue, is folk wanting the gaffer sacked because he (might) finish 8th. I'm saying that's stupid talk

      Agree mate but again I have not seen much talk, if any at all, of this to be honest.
      billythered
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8248: Feb 14, 2013 04:05:27 pm
      Out of interest, do people think Brendan has a minimum points/place target he has to achieve to avoid the sack? Kenny would have got sacked even if we won the FA Cup so obviously he had some sort of target in the league which he failed to reach. Do you think Brendan has something similar or will he have a 'free pass' because it's a new project and we totally fu**ed up in the transfer market last summer?

      Like to point out that I'm not asking if you want Brendan sacked! Just curious because I don't have a clue myself.
      Chats, I honestly don't think Brendan has any target on place other than trying to finish as high as possible, I suppose you could class it as a free pass but he is FSG's appointment and will be given time, no one knows how long he will have but, I would say at least 3 seasons,
      Taking into account our poor dealings in the summer and Brendan instigating his own philosophies, building a new team plus all the other hurdles to get over, I believe now that we have Sturridge Brendan's ideas will start being more consistent,
      Bringing in young Coutinho is another part of the jigsaw,with more to come in this summer,
      Time will tell tho if Brendan is indeed the man, by the the end of next season we will have a better idea if his ideas are working or not, YNWA
      srslfc
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8249: Feb 14, 2013 04:45:42 pm
      Just on ITV and again reinforcing that in the summer we need character and experience in the summer to develop the squad.
      MIRO
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8250: Feb 14, 2013 06:48:36 pm
      http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1528402-liverpool-has-the-brendan-rogers-project-already-failed


      LIVERPOOL    Has The Brendan Rodgers Project Already Failed ? 

      In the past decade, Liverpool fans have seen their fair share of "revolutions."

      In 2004, Rafa Benitez brought in a Spanish revolution and duly delivered a European Cup. When his form dipped, Roy Hodgson was brought in to shake things up, fresh from guiding Fulham to the Europa League final.

      Some 31 games and 10 losses later, the Hodgson revolution was toppled and a new ruler emerged: King Kenny. After bringing in the homegrown (and disproportionately priced) talents of Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing and Jordan Henderson—and despite delivering three Wembley appearances—Dalglish's second reign lasted just one-and-a-half seasons.

      Which brings us to the current regime: The Rodgers Revolution, which came to power last June.

      His arrival came with much promise.
      He was the man who brought glamorous Barcelona-esque "tiki-taka"  football to the relatively unglamorous surrounds of Swansea. Pass-and-move was set to become the Liverpool groove once again.

      Once again, however, the revolution at Anfield hasn't been particularly revolutionary.

      Liverpool have suffered 11 defeats in all competitions this season. They are 29 points behind in a title race that they were a part of not so long ago. They have lost to West Brom, Stoke and Aston Villa in recent months and sit ninth in the league, having not beaten any of the teams above them.

      Furthermore, Liverpool haven't been in a league position this bad after 26 games in 20 years.

      In the inaugural Premier League season (1992/93), they were 13th at this stage and finished in sixth place.

      All things considered, most Koppites would probably take that final finishing place in this campaign.

      To expect a revolution overnight is unrealistic ...

      but surely Liverpool's fans and owners expect more than they are currently getting from a team that has had such high expectations over the years.

      From the perspective of a Fenway Sports Group Investor, the Northern Irish coach appears to be failing.

      To his credit, he has successfully implemented a passing game. He isn't afraid to give youngsters a chance and often experiments with moving players to different positions with success.
      The Reds are just eight points off securing European football next season, which is not an impossible deficit.

      Yet the weaknesses of his system have all too frequently been exposed.
      There is no backup plan when his tiki-taka pressing game is unsuccessful.
      They are easily beaten by teams with a fast counter-attack and out-muscled by physical teams with less sophisticated tactics.

      Pass-and-move was an essential tenet of the 80s Liverpool side, but often the tiki-taka buildup gives teams the time they need to organize defensively, and crucially, it often fails to produce goals.

      It's great that youngsters like Suso, Jono Shelvey, Raheem Sterling and Joe Allen get first-team experience, but at times it seems the team simply does not have the calibre of players required to successfully execute Rodgers' system.

      Off the field, Rodgers has also shown some questionable man management.

      Admonishing Luis Suarez for diving was the kind of move Arsene "see no evil, speak no evil" Wenger would never dream of.

      Even though it was copied from Alex Ferguson, the "three envelopes" trick we saw on Being: Liverpool seemed like the kind of clumsy technique that David Brent would learn on a provincial middle-management course.

      Essentially, though the Rodgers Revolution is failing, it has not yet failed.

      The ship can be put back on course, but the type of system Rodgers is implementing needs time.

      Sadly, time is something that the Northern Irish coach probably doesn't have.

      FSG were fairly ruthless with the dismissal of Kenny Dalglish and have shown no qualms with bringing in new managers to get Liverpool back into highest tier of Premier League sides (what was known as the "Big Four" five years ago).

      Hopefully, he will get the time he needs to turn things around, but the success of the Rodgers revolution may ultimately depend on the fickleness of the club's owners.


      Or The Fans.
      Arab Scouse
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8251: Feb 14, 2013 06:50:52 pm
      I think it's too early to say it has failed

      Next season is crucial and we have to get it right in the summer, if we don't then we are in serious trouble
      Brian78
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8252: Feb 14, 2013 06:59:04 pm
      If his players take the very good chances given tonight we walk out of there telling ourselves how great we are. Thats football they got 2 goals in a 3 minute spell where we paniced.

      Had we won 3-2 or 3 0 there would no shitetalk of projects failed or any other nonsense
      Barnes10
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8253: Feb 14, 2013 07:08:20 pm
      No point anyone blaming Rodgers. He's doing his best, which so far hasn't been good enough and that's clear to see. His star signing Allen is out of his depth.

      FSG are to blame for appointing such an inexperienced rookie when Benitez was willing and available. Blame FSG for how mediocre we are, not Rodgers for taking the job.
      RedWilly
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8254: Feb 14, 2013 07:08:24 pm
      Think he actually got it spot on against Zenit, despite the result, one goal was a complete cock up and the other was a brilliant strike. If Suarez had taken his chances this tie would be over, as it is, we have it all to do to get through.

      We were fairly solid defensively despite a ropey start, but after that first went in the defence went to pot....as it has all season. We could have got the ball forward quicker at times and that is one area I would fault him on and second leg that will have too change if we're too have any chance in my view.
      srslfc
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8255: Feb 14, 2013 07:10:39 pm
      Think he actually got it spot on against Zenit

      I don't mate.

      I think the midfield was over run too easily and again there was little cohesion between defense, midfield and attack and I also think Sterling was the wrong selection and think Borini should have started just to keep it tight and bring Raheem on closer to the end.
      Madscouser
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      Re: Brendan Rodgers - Liverpool FC Manager
      Reply #8256: Feb 14, 2013 07:14:55 pm
      I don't mate.

      I think the midfield was over run too easily and again there was little cohesion between defense, midfield and attack and I also think Sterling was the wrong selection and think Borini should have started just to keep it tight and bring Raheem on closer to the end.

      Agree. Midfield is where it has gone wrong for us in recent weeks. Needed to change tactics / formation tonight

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